For people who take part in fashion events !!

[lyosha]

why not have a forum poll instead of judges? post screenshots, etc, let the winner be decided after a couple days of voting by forum members.

eu contests are stupid, its always the buddies/so's of the judges that win, make it a PCF poll and well see who the COMMUNITY chooses.

 

[mastermesh]

ROFL! Guess what I did when poor Zunami was competiting the first or maybe the second time ... I lend her some of my clothes. Okay, she didn't win at that time (must be ages ago ). But I think it's not a crime to borrow some clothes for saving costs.


LOL xD yeah i remeber.. long long time ago..
my only cool thing i had been my flower shirt lol

Thx again for borrow me i was so poor (( lol

I still want to believe half heartedly that Zunami's luck comes from buying my avatar's freebie shoes many years ago to have something to go in an apartment, lol.

 

[Zunami]

I still want to believe half heartedly that Zunami's luck comes from buying my avatar's freebie shoes many years ago to have something to go in an apartment, lol.

LOl stop bringing up all my noob sins xD

 

[xaph]

<nerdrant>
It's a shame that threads like this always seem to happen, but of course, inevitable.
During the time I was at Atlas Haven Radio, I organized many events. Some big, some small. It's a lot of hard work. A LOT. Sometimes the events go better than others. Sometimes there are problems. But ALWAYS there are complaints. ALWAYS.
The one thing I've learned over the years, however, is that there is no such thing as a perfect event. There are too many possible things that can go wrong. There are too many different rules, cultures, cliques, and expectations. There are too many entitled people.

About 24 hours ago, I heard the buzz in the grapevine about the things mentioned in this thread. I knew what was going to happen. So I wrote to David Dobson and warned him of what was coming. He went to Cyrus and Cyrus had a look at the score cards. To quote him directly (I don't think he would have any problems with my quoting him), he said, "I looked at the scores and [Freyr's] scores are in line with the other judges, so whilst I acknowledge the potential for bias, it doesn't appear to be a problem in this case."

There are many things that could have been done differently, ofc. And there always will be things that could be done differently. For one, a system could have been put in place to where the highest and lowest scores were not counted. Then a person who was trying to influence the results would need an accomplice. But then you need more judges. And quite frankly, nobody wants to judge these things. There are too many sore losers out there to make it worthwhile.

Because quite frankly, everyone who took part did so on a volunteer basis.
From the event organizer .. who spent weeks planning arranging, and choreographing an event for no personal gain whatsoever...
To the judges.. who took time out of their own schedules to give their own professional (and might I add Unbiased) opinions, knowing full well that there would be a shit storm after the event was over, just as there is every year...
To the A-team.. who put their own planet's reputation behind the event, knowing full well that there would be people who would get pissed off at the results (no matter the results) and probably swear off ever going to Arkadia again...
To the participants.. who spent countless time and peds on outfits, planning, dreaming, and walking down the ramp.

To those who won, congratulations..

To those who gave it their all but didnt win, yet had the grace to congratulate the winner and move on, congratulations to you, too, for a great competition, hard fought.

To those who came and watched the competition, I hope you enjoyed it. It's a lot of fun..

And, ofc, to those who have nothing better than to complain, I'm looking forward to seeing the event(s) that you will be doing next year...to the endless headaches that you will endure before during and after it...and to the whine threads that will inevitably appear on the forum afterwards. You ARE planning to do an event next year, right? You know..put your money where your mouth is.. that sort of thing..

just sayin
</nerdrant>

It's possible for corruptionhowever the one I judged in a few years back I had no affilliations with any of the participants.
I believe Singular ran that event with the utmost profesionalism and I did not catch a wiff of nepotism or bias! Crikeys the event was so quick to judge there was'nt room for favouratism.
I concur Fishy

 

[loren]

P.s. Magam borrowed a pair of jeans

(sorry Magam nothing against you)

I never knew it was Magam (Who won frist place) loaned Freyr's clothing! if it was all outfits or one item it is not the point? im not saying it's 'not' ok to loan clothes but when a 'judge loans clothes' and then his clothes win? it's another story in my opinion, not only one friend but along with another great friend, alarm bells start ringing!

Would the winners have won if Freyr wasn't a judge? guess we will never know!

I did not just wake up one morning and think OK im going to start a shit storm, A few players agree.. but don't have the guts to speak up due to the 'single' minded people who think you are just here as you a bad loser... it really is not the case its about 'FAIR PLAY'

When I hear such bull shit (after the event) that you 'loaned' clothing TO THE WINNER myself -and others AGREED- that you broke a lot of rules here regarding a fashion event! But as you have been around so long .. and know so much... you think you are in the right!


Arkadia - I am sorry this happend in your event! I know it's not the first time and it won't be the last! Arkadia is one my favourite planets and will remain that way.


I would like to thank all who took the time to make such a fun event! It was well organised
(-the judging system) I hope sometime in the future the voting systems will be improved then you may find more players take part.

I will not be taking part in Miss Calypso this year (due to me winning last year) I also think this should be the case in both Mr/Miss events.

I have nothing more to say on this matter unless people feel the need to question/flame me further?

Loren

 

[Neil Stockton]

Loren, here's an idea, if you don't trust the event organizers, don't enter the event. Then let the event organizers decide how to pick the winners. Pretty simple concept. Common sense, I would have thought.

So far you have accused just about everyone involved in the event of being corrupt, including Arkadia Studios employees. Why? Because you didn't win. I hope you realize how that makes you look like a really poor sport and sore loser. Not to mention it's extremely disrespectful to all those who volunteered their time and effort to make this event a good event, as well as to the other participants, belittling their achievements. Did you help Milena to find impartial judges? No? Then you haven't earned the right to complain and ruin it for others. I really think an apology is in order.

If you don't like how an event is run, make one of your own. Just be prepared for the forum backlash from the ungrateful poor sports who lose (and of course, the usual cadre of whiners and complainers who didn't even participate and weren't even there).

 

[loren]

So far you have accused just about everyone involved in the event of being corrupt, including Arkadia Studios employees. .

I have? please feel free to explain further..

 

[Neil Stockton]

I have? please feel free to explain further..

Yes, you have accused the winning participants of cheating, you have accused Milena of rigging the contest, you have accused the judges of voting for family and friends (even after this was shown not to be the case). You have accused Cyrus of participating in the vote rigging.

 

[loren]

Yes, you have accused the winning participants of cheating, you have accused Milena of rigging the contest, you have accused the judges of voting for family and friends (even after this was shown not to be the case). You have accused Cyrus of participating in the vote rigging.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about

Where is your evidence? all I have mentioned about the event is here in black and white?

Yet another 'single' minded person who has no clue what he's talking about

 

[Neil Stockton]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about

Where is your evidence? all I have mentioned about the event is here in black and white?

Yet another 'single' minded person who has no clue what he's talking about

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood your earlier posts. I'm so glad to hear that you are content with the organizers of this event and that you believe no one cheated.

 

[loren]

So far you have accused just about everyone involved in the event of being corrupt, including Arkadia Studios employees. Why?

Everyone... find where I said that?

 

[Xander Catman]

As I understood it, the issue here was not "borrowing clothes", but rather "borrowing clothes from one of the judges"...

Exactly.

As for a participant purchasing clothing from one of the judges shops... I don't see a problem with that - chances are the item(s) were purchased some time prior to the event (although maybe it was just before event) regardless, its different then a judge LENDING an item to a participant that the judge is about to vote on.

Its all about the illusion of fareness.

I'm suite sure Zunami likely deserved to win this event. She is known (partialy) for her outfits.... at least when I hear her name that what I think of. But I still don't think that family members of judges should be allowed to compete.

Look at any large scale contest pretty much anywhere in the world and in the fine print you will see that family (of event organizers) is usualy excluded from participating. IMHO it should be the same with these events. Although a good percentage of us would likely be able to judge without bias, it is all about perception afterall.

XZC

 

[Brown1e]

<nerdrant>

About 24 hours ago, I heard the buzz in the grapevine about the things mentioned in this thread. I knew what was going to happen. So I wrote to David Dobson and warned him of what was coming. He went to Cyrus and Cyrus had a look at the score cards. To quote him directly (I don't think he would have any problems with my quoting him), he said, "I looked at the scores and [Freyr's] scores are in line with the other judges, so whilst I acknowledge the potential for bias, it doesn't appear to be a problem in this case.

</nerdrant>

We can argue the whys and wherefor's of whether someone should lend items, or judge an event when a friend or family member is involved, until the cows come home, and opinions on that will always differ but thats human nature.

I think this should really resolve this matter once and for all. The matter was taken straight to the top, reviewed by the A Team and in their opinion there was nothing to suggest any preference was given to any one individual by the judges.....David and the A Team supported and put their good name to this event, and if they are satisfied that the event was run and judged fairly then that should be good enough for us all.

 

[Neil Stockton]

Everyone... find where I said that?

Sigh.... I said "just about" everyone. Most of the contestants haven't been named specifically, however, many of them were known by at least one judge, so I included them as well.

I'm not going to dignify the quotes by bringing them up again. Since you are apparently more open-minded than I am, I'm confident you can go back and find the places where you stated or implied that cheating occured between contestants and judges in this and past events. By extension, you've accused the organizer of picking biased judges and the fact that you don't believe Cyrus's judgment means you also feel that he participated in the supposed rigging.

As I said before, I apologize if I have somehow misinterpreted all your posts. If you believe that no cheating went on and that the contest was decided fairly, then I agree with you.

It's alright to suggest that judges have no close relationships with contestants and that contestants not borrow items from judges (I agree, those are good things, though they were not part of this event's rules), but the vicious way you proposed these suggestions was not right.

 

[Thorns Rose]

The problem is conflict of interest and fair play. That is it's fine if the winner won fairly but since fairness has been compromised how can we know who the true winner is? if the true winner is the current winner that would be ok.

I mean the current winner can still be a winner as long as the selection system has not been compromised. Who the winner is less important than a fair selection system.

Really? Didn't you just start a "Pay for vote thread yesterday?

<nerdrant>


To those who won, congratulations..

To those who gave it their all but didnt win, yet had the grace to congratulate the winner and move on, congratulations to you, too, for a great competition, hard fought.

To those who came and watched the competition, I hope you enjoyed it. It's a lot of fun..

And, ofc, to those who have nothing better than to complain, I'm looking forward to seeing the event(s) that you will be doing next year...to the endless headaches that you will endure before during and after it...and to the whine threads that will inevitably appear on the forum afterwards. You ARE planning to do an event next year, right? You know..put your money where your mouth is.. that sort of thing..

just sayin
</nerdrant>

Well said Fishface!!..And "Hats off" to the organizers..who tried to put this together


I voted "No" in poll btw...

 

[SoftHart]

WOW 8 pages in one day. I didn't bother reading thru them all. Just adding my vote that there is a definite problem with the way these events are handled.

 

[True Juan]

Just to add... usually the contestants have no idea what it all takes for an event to run the best way possible.

I've had my share of "you suck" "asshole" etc. in either PM's, threads or -reps for last years Mister and Miss Only one judge from the 4 in Mister, and one from 4 at Miss could have been considered as someone that could be possibly labeled as a "friend or family" of one or more contestants but in the end, people only saw JUST THAT ONE JUDGE and only THAT JUDGE made the difference in the WHOLE COMPETITION according to the bashing I got Yeah right... as if I didnt check the scores of THAT ONE judge and didnt compare with the other judges

I only laughed at the people, what else can a person do?
- I had 4 judges
- One judge was a RL friend
- Then there was a random person from the audience or a random person not too associated with many people
- Others were either well known in fashion or understood fashion a bit
- The judges did not know the other judges until after the show (some of them still probably dont)

It does NOT matter how much effort you put into the event. There will always be someone that will lose that cant take it. Thats all

TJ

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

It does NOT matter how much effort you put into the event. There will always be someone that will lose that cant take it. Thats all

Ultimately this is simply not true.

It's not about how much effort or lack of effort, it's more with having the right environment or conditions which allows for a fair contest for all participants. If people are not fairly treated then yes there will be a reaction and it has little to do with how much effort was put in.

 

[loren]

Ultimately this is simply not true.

It's not about how much effort or lack of effort, it's more with having the right environment or conditions which allows for a fair contest for all participants. If people are not fairly treated then yes there will be a reaction and it has little to do with how much effort was put in.

George, it's only normal people that get it and there ain't many around here.. sadly!

They are quick to jump on you when you sell your votes but is ok for them to use 'Popularity' or use other way's to Manipulate' the system one word for the lot of them 'Simpletons'

 

[loren]

Just to add... usually the contestants have no idea what it all takes for an event to run the best way possible.

I've had my share of "you suck" "asshole" etc. in either PM's, threads or -reps for last years Mister and Miss Only one judge from the 4 in Mister, and one from 4 at Miss could have been considered as someone that could be possibly labeled as a "friend or family" of one or more contestants but in the end, people only saw JUST THAT ONE JUDGE and only THAT JUDGE made the difference in the WHOLE COMPETITION according to the bashing I got Yeah right... as if I didnt check the scores of THAT ONE judge and didnt compare with the other judges

I only laughed at the people, what else can a person do?
- I had 4 judges
- One judge was a RL friend
- Then there was a random person from the audience or a random person not too associated with many people
- Others were either well known in fashion or understood fashion a bit
- The judges did not know the other judges until after the show (some of them still probably dont)

It does NOT matter how much effort you put into the event. There will always be someone that will lose that cant take it. Thats all

TJ

TJ I get it but it's not the case this time, it's so easy to say 'Oh well they did not win' easy way out - this is not the case...


So for this you going to get a good smacking when I see you next !

ps- with a Omegaton Colorator CCT-1 (L)

 

[aj502]

Although a good percentage of us would likely be able to judge without bias, it is all about perception afterall.

XZC

Mmm..Call me a pessimist but from a lot I have seen, without accusing anyone in this particular event or any other, I very strongly disagree with this.

If I have seen before that people can vote purely based on their own opinion regardless of friend, foe, soc, family or spouse I would have zero problems them being a judge.

Wether we all want to see/admit it or not, we all do know some of these contests can be more swayed by popularity rather than merit.
Sometimes it affects the outcome, sometimes it doesn't - who knows for sure?

Did not vote, but I would have chosen "yes" if the pervious integrty could be trusted upon.







Tippin'

 

[Pauhe Gunor]

George, it's only normal people that get it and there ain't many around here.. sadly!

They are quick to jump on you when you sell your votes but is ok for them to use 'Popularity' or use other way's to Manipulate' the system one word for the lot of them 'Simpletons'

I guess it's a whole other discussion and event about paying people to win events.

P.S. I guess i'm a "simpleton"

 

[loren]

I guess it's a whole other discussion and event about paying people to win events.

P.S. I guess i'm a "simpleton"

no.. no.. no.. you are a very special case at it's best

 

[aia]

There will always be someone that will lose that cant take it. Thats all

I got place 16/20 or something like that last year. I just think, "it could have been worse" (I wanted that spire .)

 

[K-Max]

<nerdrant>
It's a shame that threads like this always seem to happen, but of course, inevitable.
During the time I was at Atlas Haven Radio, I organized many events. Some big, some small. It's a lot of hard work. A LOT. Sometimes the events go better than others. Sometimes there are problems. But ALWAYS there are complaints. ALWAYS.
The one thing I've learned over the years, however, is that there is no such thing as a perfect event. There are too many possible things that can go wrong. There are too many different rules, cultures, cliques, and expectations. There are too many entitled people.

About 24 hours ago, I heard the buzz in the grapevine about the things mentioned in this thread. I knew what was going to happen. So I wrote to David Dobson and warned him of what was coming. He went to Cyrus and Cyrus had a look at the score cards. To quote him directly (I don't think he would have any problems with my quoting him), he said, "I looked at the scores and [Freyr's] scores are in line with the other judges, so whilst I acknowledge the potential for bias, it doesn't appear to be a problem in this case."

There are many things that could have been done differently, ofc. And there always will be things that could be done differently. For one, a system could have been put in place to where the highest and lowest scores were not counted. Then a person who was trying to influence the results would need an accomplice. But then you need more judges. And quite frankly, nobody wants to judge these things. There are too many sore losers out there to make it worthwhile.

Because quite frankly, everyone who took part did so on a volunteer basis.
From the event organizer .. who spent weeks planning arranging, and choreographing an event for no personal gain whatsoever...
To the judges.. who took time out of their own schedules to give their own professional (and might I add Unbiased) opinions, knowing full well that there would be a shit storm after the event was over, just as there is every year...
To the A-team.. who put their own planet's reputation behind the event, knowing full well that there would be people who would get pissed off at the results (no matter the results) and probably swear off ever going to Arkadia again...
To the participants.. who spent countless time and peds on outfits, planning, dreaming, and walking down the ramp.

To those who won, congratulations..

To those who gave it their all but didnt win, yet had the grace to congratulate the winner and move on, congratulations to you, too, for a great competition, hard fought.

To those who came and watched the competition, I hope you enjoyed it. It's a lot of fun..

And, ofc, to those who have nothing better than to complain, I'm looking forward to seeing the event(s) that you will be doing next year...to the endless headaches that you will endure before during and after it...and to the whine threads that will inevitably appear on the forum afterwards. You ARE planning to do an event next year, right? You know..put your money where your mouth is.. that sort of thing..

just sayin
</nerdrant>

Yup I do hold events and put lots of time in them and constantly try to improve them every time In fact I am making some major changes to my last hunter challenge event. Even though all my contestants actually win, they all get free skills, this time they all got a free 24 PED shirt, they all got 50% shared profits from returned loots, all at 100% no cost to them but the fun time of hunting. There was still some ambiguity of being fair across the board for the small 1-3 place prizes, even though it was my PED being spent. So I totally agree with you here FF, there are always some calling fairness rules out. So I am refining my contest for next time quit a bit with what people have suggested, without degrading from the overall event. I truly hope all my hunters will like my new, more fair across the board, changes I am working on.

 

[K-Max]

Mmm..Call me a pessimist but from a lot I have seen, without accusing anyone in this particular event or any other, I very strongly disagree with this.

If I have seen before that people can vote purely based on their own opinion regardless of friend, foe, soc, family or spouse I would have zero problems them being a judge.

Wether we all want to see/admit it or not, we all do know some of these contests can be more swayed by popularity rather than merit.
Sometimes it affects the outcome, sometimes it doesn't - who knows for sure?

Did not vote, but I would have chosen "yes" if the pervious integrty could be trusted upon.

Tippin'

I was at some small contest one in EU some fashion thing and the winner was based on how much emoticon noise they generated throughout their time on display. It was kind of fun to randomly hit emots to generate as much noise as I could. I have no idea how it could be determined or observed but it was a fun time at the event.

 

[jaywalker]

And shadow armor pieces will be "worth more" than pixie armor pieces. (After all, higher end armors tend to have more exclusive design than lesser armors.)


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=276459

I looked at the pic of the guy in Pixie, and he did an amazing job of creating a striking, original and attractive look out of a cheap armour that we see every day . Whether the voting was unfair or not, they picked a worthy winner IMO.

If people manage to create unusual and attractive looks using cheap armour, orange paint etc, that is not too "easy" as somebody said, but a lot more difficult (creatively speaking) than just applying the latest uber texture, along with a "difficult" colour, to a rare and pricey outfit. The latter only says that you (or the person you employed) have accquired a lot of skillpoints, and that you have a lot of PED to burn.

Do we really want the winners to be judged on the size of their PED card? When I looked at the (purported) judging critera for the Ark contest, it didn't seem to me as if that was their intention.

Re. this idea of having judges from outside EU: I think there is a danger there, that they will NOT know what is common and easily obtainable and what is more unusual. So somebody might easily win just for having the nerve to sport an outfit that you see every day (whether expensive or cheap) without doing anything more creative with it. In the context of a fashion parade, these outfits would look unusual to an outsider, because everybody else is avoiding them! Nobody wants that to happen , do they?

I's like to see a system where the audience judge.

BUT (have not read the whole thread yet, though) nobody has ever mentioned the main problem with judging , as I see it:

There are many, many texture effects that cannot be viewed in low graphics at all. And most textures (and some clothing designs) look considerably different in low graphics.

When I watched Miss Caly 2011, iInoticed numerous ppl, myself incuded , had to turn their graphics down to prevent crashes. If the judges did the same, that could have a big effect on their judgement.

Given that problem, it would seem that the only realistic option is to judge from a video/photos.


jay

 

[KlowN]

One day, my crazy fashion theme will win...then EU fashion will branch off into a new generation

 

[Neil Stockton]

BUT (have not read the whole thread yet, though) nobody has ever mentioned the main problem with judging , as I see it:

There are many, many texture effects that cannot be viewed in low graphics at all. And most textures (and some clothing designs) look considerably different in low graphics.

When I watched Miss Caly 2011, iInoticed numerous ppl, myself incuded , had to turn their graphics down to prevent crashes. If the judges did the same, that could have a big effect on their judgement.

Given that problem, it would seem that the only realistic option is to judge from a video/photos.

Hear, hear!

Outfits look totally different on the different graphics settings... and probably even with different graphics cards/monitors/color settings.

 

[aia]

So somebody might easily win just for having the nerve to sport an outfit that you see every day (whether expensive or cheap) without doing anything more creative with it. In the context of a fashion parade, these outfits would look unusual to an outsider, because everybody else is avoiding them! Nobody wants that to happen , do they?

Well, if a common outfit would look good then why not. Also, if someone has let's say yellow hair than the classic outfit might be a very good choice, but if someone has black hair, it might look aweful (with the OJ). Though it wouldn't hurt if external judges would spend some time, let's say at least a few days-hours ingame to see how clothes generally look on the general population.

Your later thing about graphical settings is pretty urgent though when taking in external judges: The judges should (ideally) be able to run on max quality (high or very high), or at least a large group of them (and the ones that can't run on max quality should be aware of the differences in look.

(Avatar quality: details of body, Item quality: Distance - important on a catwalk like Planet Arkadia where you don't get close, Shading: 3D appearance and shadows of textures, Texture quality: Need to be high for textures not to be blurry, Post processing: (Needed to be at a higher level to see "holograms"))

And also don't forget the impact of gamma setting when running in fullscreen, or the difference between running in fullscreen and window. A "dark" texture (emulating black) can look differently with different settings, for instance.