Question: For the uber skill level players

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

I was recently working on chipping some skills out with a friend and was playing around with the skill calc and the results of pulling out the skills. I know the calculator doesn't work well past a certain point but that is not an issue here. The amount of TT for single points of skill seemed to be going up and they had over 6 figures or was not far from it. And the ESI system is frankly very short of a fraud, just functional enough so they can claim it is possible to sell your skills and get back some of what you invested in your avatar if you ever want to quit. As you can't actually recover ANY tt from your skills, in fact you lose TT, and can only earn markup at the expense of other players.

Given that it would be extremely difficult to find a way to sell all the TT in your skills, would you willing TT your skills to easily recover ped but the caveat it goes back into loot pools. Maybe 20% back into the general player loot pool, and 80% into some kind of personal loot pool that pays you out a little bit in each of your looting events or something similar. This wouldn't only apply to just uber skill level players, anyone could use it, but it makes most applicable sense for someone with really high skills.

I know something like this would never actually be made, but I am curious if it would be worth it to you to sacrifice some tt back to the general population to get some actual tt out of your skills.

For this thought experiment assume that item profession requirements will never catch up to current highest level players, new weapons and functions may release but the skills to use them doesn't go any higher, so letting skills go up is either a prestige thing to be #1 or to TT back into my aforementioned loot pool like idea. The general point being you being able to get back some of your ped in exchange for donating some of the ped back into the general loot pool.


This post is not here to make people out to be greedy or not, because it is a game and working hard to be #1 is a goal in an of itself regardless of money. It is just a thought experiment and discussion on making use of something currently unusable.

Looking forward to seeing responses.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Hell yeah I would. I don't have any desires to pursue weapons past level 100, so once I hit this I would chip out any extra skill that doesn't boost HP/looter/evader. I'd likely waste my money auction fees trying to sell junk skills the traditional way, and people arent going around buying up large amounts of Rifle skill even at TT value, so would definitely take a 20% TT return to have a simple and safe solution.
It's a pipedream though. Not a chance of MIndark actually paying anything for skills. I have a better looting a Mod Merc

 

[Nanashana]

If we're redesigning skill gains, its better to actually do more work on mentoring IMO.

Allow high skill players to sacrifice a small amount of their skills, like 10-20tt for a buff that increases certain skillgains. I.e. 100% increased laser weapons for a week which can then be traded. Skills are trending worthless as they currently are - but if MA is hoping to have a huge influx of new players at UE5 release there'll need to be some more accessible catchup mechanics as the barrier to entry to play for a large number of players is going to be huge and a massive turn off.

They might see someone solo hunting large mobs, but when they realise its a multi-million ped cycle over a 12+ months to get even remotely close that's gonna cause most players to not bother.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

If we're redesigning skill gains, its better to actually do more work on mentoring IMO.

Allow high skill players to sacrifice a small amount of their skills, like 10-20tt for a buff that increases certain skillgains. I.e. 100% increased laser weapons for a week which can then be traded. Skills are trending worthless as they currently are - but if MA is hoping to have a huge influx of new players at UE5 release there'll need to be some more accessible catchup mechanics as the barrier to entry to play for a large number of players is going to be huge and a massive turn off.

They might see someone solo hunting large mobs, but when they realise its a multi-million ped cycle over a 12+ months to get even remotely close that's gonna cause most players to not bother.

This really wasnt a redsign on skills more of a thought experiment if players would sacrifice something worth monetary value but unobtainable to give it to others and get a part of the value back over time.


But i do like your idea it has some interesting use cases besides just skill boosts.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

either a prestige thing to be #1

High scores list please. That's what I want for every single skill and profession.

 

[VandalHand]

No, I hoard skills. Hold my beer Dan Petrov.

 

[atomicstorm]

Skills have no TT value so your OP is on an invalid premise. To TT skills for peds means they have to revamp them to be a liability to the company where as they aren't now.

 

[Jhereg]

Skills have no TT The End

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

Skills have no TT value so your OP is on an invalid premise. To TT skills for peds means they have to revamp them to be a liability to the company where as they aren't now.

Skills have no TT The End

Codex says otherwise, and before you go any further I can see the reason for your comments, but this was a hypothetical, this was not a suggestions post this was a 'what if' post. Don't destroy it by trying to argue over semantics.

 

[Jhereg]

It is a perfectly legitimate argument.

Skills have no intrinsic TT. The only reason it is in PED is to connect the skill 'experience bar' to how much ESI would be consumed when chipping out/in.

The best way to think about it is to replace the TT value in codex with 'Experience' as in other games.

This is one of the most commonly misunderstood things about the game, and is a byproduct of how the chipping system works, which resulted in basically having the units of experience in this game be in [PED] to make it clear approximately how much ESI would be filled if you removed the skill.

 

[Jhereg]

To add on to my previous post... If you don't get TT from skill gain, then there's no real tt being created so MA wouldn't be able to pay you anything for your skill gain.

 

[MrFatBoy]

everything (with certain exceptions like sweat, holiday gifts ) should TT'able but MA won't do this as it will provide another route for profiting. MA only needs so many profiting players to make it look like a skill based game and not gambling. open more routes to profit means MA makes less $ = never to happen without a big redesign - maybe UE5 will have something new

anyone that played Afterworld knows the chip system they had - i thought that was great but doubt it can be implemented here as skills are tied to other things i believe so there would be even more exploiting / cheating.

 

[Jhereg]

everything (with certain exceptions like sweat, holiday gifts ) should TT'able but MA won't do this as it will provide another route for profiting. MA only needs so many profiting players to make it look like a skill based game and not gambling. open more routes to profit means MA makes less $ = never to happen without a big redesign - maybe UE5 will have something new

anyone that played Afterworld knows the chip system they had - i thought that was great but doubt it can be implemented here as skills are tied to other things i believe so there would be even more exploiting / cheating.

You can chip out onto an ESI and TT the ESI

 

[MrFatBoy]

You can chip out onto an ESI and TT the ESI

yes that i know but then you TT MU of the ESI not many will do that - maybe i am missing something as i never chipped in/out or tt a skill chip.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

It is a perfectly legitimate argument.

I never said it wasn't. I even stated I understand where you are coming from. I however explicitly stated that was not the purpose of this thread and to not debate it here, and then you went and did it anyways. I understand the mechanics of chipping and skills, and the economics and psychology of the whole system. I wanted to discuss a hypothetical. I even state that there is no way to get TT for your skills, only markup. So me using the word TT or PED equivalent value or the ESI TT value or however you wish to phrase it was NOT the purpose of the discussion or even up for contention. My whole hypothetical thought experiment is based on a faulty premise, intentionally so, because it is a thought experiment. Points have a TT value the same way a US dollar has TT value even though USD doesn't actually have a TT value, it has a ped equivalent value. So if I have 10k skill points and it can be pulled out into an ESI worth 5k TT, than those skill points have a TT value of 5k ped. They themselves do not have TT but they can be measured in TT.

yes that i know but then you TT MU of the ESI not many will do that - maybe i am missing something as i never chipped in/out or tt a skill chip.

You are correct. And since we are debating over semantics, it technically stops being an ESI when you put skill into it and be comes ">insert skill name< Skill Implant".

 

[Jhereg]

I never said it wasn't. I even stated I understand where you are coming from. I however explicitly stated that was not the purpose of this thread and to not debate it here, and then you went and did it anyways. I understand the mechanics of chipping and skills, and the economics and psychology of the whole system. I wanted to discuss a hypothetical. I even state that there is no way to get TT for your skills, only markup. So me using the word TT or PED equivalent value or the ESI TT value or however you wish to phrase it was NOT the purpose of the discussion or even up for contention. My whole hypothetical thought experiment is based on a faulty premise, intentionally so, because it is a thought experiment. Points have a TT value the same way a US dollar has TT value even though USD doesn't actually have a TT value, it has a ped equivalent value. So if I have 10k skill points and it can be pulled out into an ESI worth 5k TT, than those skill points have a TT value of 5k ped. They themselves do not have TT but they can be measured in TT.

You are correct. And since we are debating over semantics, it technically stops being an ESI when you put skill into it and be comes ">insert skill name< Skill Implant".

So your argument is Mindark should provide ADDITIONAL tt payout for players instead of skill gain if the players would so choose, the source of which would have to come from either MA revenues or from the players themselves right?

Because there's no current pool of TT for skill gain...so it would have to come from somewhere...if that's what you are saying I'd be very very strongly against this idea...

I think you missed the key point of what I was trying to say previously, which is, where would this ped come from?

 

[PreyNaika]

Can someone prove that skill got no tt value please?

 

[MrFatBoy]

Can someone prove that skill got no tt value please?

you cant sell skills directly so no TT value

As Jhereg mentions you put on an ESI and it just fills up a portion of the ESI bassd on your level or experience

any MU mon a "skill chip" is player determined so a full ESI 1250ped ESI of evade is worth 1250 ped if you TT it - the player determined MU is a lot more but does not mean skills have TT value.

i maybe be off here due me being dumb lol

edit - skills have a cost to acquire tho so a part of me wishes i could sell them but mu on ESI is just stupid

skill chips should be in the TT for 5 ped per X amount of skill at level 0 or some other measurement / valuation methodology.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

So your argument is Mindark should provide ADDITIONAL tt payout for players instead of skill gain if the players would so choose, the source of which would have to come from either MA revenues or from the players themselves right?

Because there's no current pool of TT for skill gain...so it would have to come from somewhere...if that's what you are saying I'd be very very strongly against this idea...

I think you missed the key point of what I was trying to say previously, which is, where would this ped come from?

You are missing the point. I have already yielded that what I am positing is not reality it is a "Hypothetical". I wanted to have a discussion around my scenario, not argue about whether its actually works that way or not. Its about whether a player would want to keep their skill, or get rid of it and get some value out of it back at the cost of putting a large portion of any recouped value going into the general populace loot pool.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Seems like everyone except myself missed the point of Xanatos question . We all know how skills work, it was just a fun hypothetical.

 

[Legends]

I vote yes but only if it's 100% going back into the general loot pool (there is no personal loot pool anyway ).

I've always felt that skills in Entropia were just something like someone giving you free money that you can't spend because it's frozen indefinitely in your bank account.

I believe the ESI system is a safeguard against a hypothetical "bank run". MindArk wants to give players skills that have real monetary value but they feel that in doing so, they better buffer themselves against any possible "bank run" in the future, which could ruin them.

Seeing as ESIs are in limited supply, any "bank run" on cashing out skills would be self-defeating as the price on ESIs would sky-rocket and there would be no way to get your money from MA.

So in the end there is an apparency of MA giving you something of value for "free", but then there is the reality that, although you might be able to get SOME money out of it if you extract and sell some here and there, you could never get the full value of all your skills back.

So do skills actually have any tt value? Well yes and no, but mostly no.

And hence we have this debate.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

I vote yes but only if it's 100% going back into the general loot pool (there is no personal loot pool anyway ).

I've always felt that skills in Entropia were just something like someone giving you free money that you can't spend because it's frozen indefinitely in your bank account.

I believe the ESI system is a safeguard against a hypothetical "bank run". MindArk wants to give players skills that have real monetary value but they feel that in doing so, they better buffer themselves against any possible "bank run" in the future, which could ruin them.

Seeing as ESIs are in limited supply, any "bank run" on cashing out skills would be self-defeating as the price on ESIs would sky-rocket and there would be no way to get your money from MA.

So in the end there is an apparency of MA giving you something of value for "free", but then there is the reality that, although you might be able to get SOME money out of it if you extract and sell some here and there, you could never get the full value of all your skills back.

So do skills actually have any tt value? Well yes and no, but mostly no.

And hence we have this debate.

Which is why I said I know how the system works, but lets pretend that it works the way I described, because Katie got the point, so did Angela, and Vandal. I wanted to avoid the debate and have a discussion.

 

[MikeH]

Can someone prove that skill got no tt value please?

Getting hit by mobs without putting any ped gives you evade skills , if skills have tt value it's like get get hit for free ped

 

[atomicstorm]

Codex says otherwise, and before you go any further I can see the reason for your comments, but this was a hypothetical, this was not a suggestions post this was a 'what if' post. Don't destroy it by trying to argue over semantics.

You sound mad. This is posted in a suggestions forum.

Codex is just referential. You are basically getting a rakeback from the planet partner (as said to me by a planet partner).

The hypothetical OP is a waste of time as it isn't going to be possible unless Mindark revamps their entire business model and takes on a MASSIVE liability. Fact remains, skills have no TT value. It's in the extraction method - the ESI.

To do what you want, you would basically need to buy an "ESI" from the TT from your own funds to extract skills, to inject in a pool to get later and that is just plain absurd.

 

[Pi-]

.

 

[Xanato Xan Kaso]

You sound mad. This is posted in a suggestions forum.

The hypothetical OP is a waste of time as it isn't going to be possible unless Mindark revamps their entire business model and takes on a MASSIVE liability. Fact remains, skills have no TT value. It's in the extraction method - the ESI.

I selected General Discussion so I don't know how it ended up in suggestions, since this was not a suggestion. And the hypothetical OP being a waste of time is exactly the point, it was supposed to be fun. Letting people play what if and imagining fun ways to alter or adjust my idea.

They cant think outside the box.

Yep.