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Question: Forum Rule Clarification

narfi

narfi

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Narfi Hungry Willem
5. TRADE
5.1 - Auction Competition
If an item is listed in the Entropia Universe auction system, you are NOT permitted to post a sales thread for the same item on PlanetCalypsoForum. The purpose of the PlanetCalypsoForum Trading section is to facilitate deals not easily accomplished using the existing mechanisms available within Entropia Universe. The PlanetCalypsoForum Trading section is NOT provided as a means to circumvent the fees associated with the Entropia Universe auction, nor to compete with the Entropia Universe auction in any way. Any post in violation of this provision may be deleted without notice.
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I was wondering about the specific wording of the rule as well as the intent behind it.

Obviously the following post in the sales forum would be against the rules,
Selling 1000ped of muscle oil to the highest bidder.
They are In auction, but if you make me an offer here I will pull them and sell them to you.
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This is posting a sale in competition with the in game mechanism.

But what if it was worded differently?

Selling my Modified Opalo in the in game auction.
SB = tt+20, BO = tt+550
Same damage and ammo use as the tt Opalo, but the gun doesn't decay.
There is no market history for it, and there is a bug which shows it in the armor section.
Just letting you guys know to look for it there since not many know about it.
(I will not pull it from auction, so don't make offers here)
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etc...
There are lots of scenarios where 'advertizing' your in-game auction on the forum would benefit not just the seller, but potential buyers who were not aware that a unique item was available.

For those same items, selling only on the forum would prevent a lot of people who may be interested in it that may not read this forum because of a variety of reasons. (mainly lack of interest, or English not being their main language)

I do understand the need for the rule to prevent flooding of the forum for all sorts of redundant sales threads for common resources, But I think that either the rules need to be tweaked or the intent explained more clearly for the times we are in. (there are becoming more and more unique or newly discovered items that deserve the benefit of both the forum and auction as long as they do not attempt to circumvent the in game fees)

I realize that it needs to be black and white otherwise trolls will attempt to fudge the line on both sides.
Perhaps stating that as long as there are less than 3 of the particular item in auction, it is acceptable to 'advertize' the auction on the forum?

I don't know the best way, but feel that the current approach or interpretation of the rules needs to be re-assessed.

hopeful I got across what I was trying to say and it made sense,

narfi
 
Yes, that is the rule I quoted and want to discuss. Thanks for posting the link though :)

narfi
 
it is allowed to make a sales thread for unique / rare items which are listed on auction same time. your mod opalo can be classed as such item.

the intention of "no thread if on ingame auction" is probably to reduce spam here. else we'd have hundreds of posts every day of folks advertising their auctions on the forum.
 
steffel said:
it is allowed to make a sales thread for unique / rare items which are listed on auction same time. your mod opalo can be classed as such item.
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I saw one locked today which is what made me start this thread. Its been on my mind for a while though.

steffel said:
the intention of "no thread if on ingame auction" is probably to reduce spam here. else we'd have hundreds of posts every day of folks advertising their auctions on the forum.
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I agree that we don't want spam from every single auction listing.

narfi
 
i wouldn't call a shadow helmet that rare..
It's a rare loot yeah, but there are several ingame
 
das said:
i wouldn't call a shadow helmet that rare..
It's a rare loot yeah, but there are several ingame
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Which is part of my point, where is that line? it is different for everyone.

Does the rarity of this specific example meet the criteria that I presented as an option? (fewer than 3 currently in auction?)

narfi
 
Hey Narfi :)

Yeah, the Rules can be construed in a variety of ways, could be a bit vague in this regard....

I see it this way.

There are many threads in the Hof/Uber section where the user has a "Hey Ya'll, I looted this today, great stuff hey", and they get Gratz for it. And they follow the screenie in their OP with "In the in-game auction by the way".

I dont see anything wrong with those sorts of posts.

But the thread I locked today was created for the express purpose of advertising the sale of the helmet in the auction. Hence I locked it.

Tis my take on it, but open to debate :)
 
Hm...I thought it's cut and dry...
i.e. if yer item is on auction, then don't list it here in the selling section.(or at least mention that it is on auction)
Doesn't matter if it's common, rare or unique.

Seems pretty simple to me.







Tippin'
 
The exception I tended to allow was not so much for rarity of items, but for items where the auction couldn't tell the whole story. For instance, an auction for an apartment that was furnished. In that case I would allow an advert on EF (but not an auction - since any bid on the in-game auction would make it impossible to continue any bidding on EF).

Shadow Helmet, Mod Opalo, etc. I see no need for it to be advertised really. How would we draw the line on what is rare enough and what isn't?
 
Jimmy B said:
The exception I tended to allow was not so much for rarity of items, but for items where the auction couldn't tell the whole story. For instance, an auction for an apartment that was furnished. In that case I would allow an advert on EF (but not an auction - since any bid on the in-game auction would make it impossible to continue any bidding on EF).

Shadow Helmet, Mod Opalo, etc. I see no need for it to be advertised really. How would we draw the line on what is rare enough and what isn't?
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I like the example with the apartment. Simple solution, allow advertising if the item is unique. (Only 1 of it).
 
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Sircus said:
I like the example with the apartment. Simple solution, allow advertising if the item is uniqe. (Only 1 of it).
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Unique(only 1) in the game, or unique(only 1) in auction?
This is what I was trying to say in my opening post.
There aren't many truly unique items in the game anymore. But there are lots of items that seldom or never sell in auction.

Here is another example,
I craft Lemmy Dragon (L) Plates when I get enough resources but it takes quite a while.
All of them so far I have sold person to person or in shops so there is no real market history for them.

If I put a set in auction on Calypso there would be two problems.
1. No one would know to expect to look for them since they are never there.
2. No one would know the value or lack of value of those plates in their own hunting activities because they had never heard of them before.

So they meet the criteria for being unique (only 1set) in auction, but do not meet the criteria of being unique(only 1 set in game)

Under the current interpretation of the rules I would not be allowed to post the following,

Hey,
I just put a set of Lemmy Dragon (L) Plates in the Calypso auction.
They are the best Cut/Stb plates in the game with the exception to the Rudolf mk3 plates that Daisy won in an event.
15stb/12cut/10electric They are a great plate for anyone camping Ossis or a majority of the Dragons/Street Kings/Prison mobs on Rocktropia.
I have entered the info for them on entropedia,
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Plating&name=LEMMY_Dragon_Plate_mk1_(L)
Starting bid is 165% and bo is 180%
Happy bidding,

narfi
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Even though they would be unique to the auction, I don't really have a current story about the plates(my discoveries and hofs on them were months ago, I did get a couple globals making this batch, but that's not really thread worthy,) so they aren't allowed on the forum?

My point is that I think that being unique to auction is unique enough to be allowed more leniency here on the forum.

hopefully that makes sense,

narfi
 
I see your point narfi, but I belive you are overcomplicating it there. With unique I mean new item(first one), MA special drop, item won from MA/PP competition.

Now if advertising on the forum really gains buyers the posters should simply start selling the item here, aint that what it boils down to? Your example with the plates is good, the seller is a noob for using auction on an unknown item. No excuse to advertise here when you put them on auction.
 
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I meant stuff for which making an auction in-game doesn't necessarily make it clear what is being sold. So in the case of the apartment - you'd likely assume a deed on sale is to an empty room, so you wouldn't know about the other stuff that is effectively being sold too.

Although I guess it'd make more sense just to do the auction here.
 
I always thought the rule existed because 711 didn't want piss off MA enough to make him get rid of Entropiaforum... but they bought the database from him, and don't dig around in it for some of the many blatent scams and eula violations that are present in that database, and they let their employees run around in game using company money to mess with the 'real' cash economy however they want, so I honestly don't think they give a hoot about what is done in any of the forums. As long as someone deposits they think all is well. :(
 
mastermesh said:
I always thought the rule existed because 711 didn't want piss off MA enough to make him get rid of Entropiaforum...
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Whether or not that's true, who wants a forum full of adverts for junk in-game auctions?
 
that's the problem when rule is not followed.

if there is an exception to the rule, the rule should be changed to include the exception.

No exception to break the rule
 
mastermesh said:
I always thought the rule existed because 711 didn't want piss off MA enough to make him get rid of Entropiaforum...
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Actually, this rule existed well before I ever owned EF, having been instituted by MindBuster during the very early days of the forum.


This forum rule exists not only to prevent competition with the in-game auction, but also to prevent misunderstandings and diagreements between members when a legitimate winning bid cannot be honored. For example, imagine the following situation:

  • Member A creates a thread in the PCF Selling forum offering an item for sale with a start-bid and end time.
  • Member B places a legitimate, winning bid on the item here in the forum auction.
  • Player C purchases the item from the in-game auction.
  • Member A notices that the forum auction has completed with a winning bid, and logs into Entropia to remove the item from the auction. Of course, the item is now no longer in Member A's possession, and thus cannot be traded to winning bidder Member B.
  • Member B crys foul, and contacts Moderator A with a complaint about Member A's lack of fulfillment of forum sales thread.
  • Everyone involved wastes time, energy and frustration.

These situations would arise very often if the rule in question did not exist.

If an item is listed on the in-game auction, there is absolutely no need to create a sales thread here on the forum. I really don't see a need for exceptions to this rule, even in the cases that Jimmy mentions.

To state things very clearly and avoid any confusion:

Posting sales threads for items that are listed on the in-game auction is not permitted.
Advertising in-game auctions via sales threads here on PCF (or EF) is not permitted.
 
To keeo it simple just dont post anything in the sales thread that is already in the game auction. It causes confusion like 711 said. If there was an exception to the rule for ONE person you would have to do the same for others because it is unfair and shows favoritism.

An alternate method is to post in the "items" section with an FYI thread on your plates informing players of their stats and usefuleness. Personally I know when I see something cool in the sales thread or item thread I "google" it on the in game auction to A) buy it cheaper or B) to look at/purchase the item from the person whom made the topic.

Hope you find this posting useful :)

~Danimal
 
I agree with the rule in principle.


However the major problem with it is many players flount it left right and centre. Since it's difficult to have a system that checks every post most get away with it. Even when they are caught and mods notified and thread closed they have done their advertising allready. This therefore places the honest person at a disadvantage.
 
GeorgeSkywalker said:
I agree with the rule in principle.


However the major problem with it is many players flount it left right and centre. Since it's difficult to have a system that checks every post most get away with it. Even when they are caught and mods notified and thread closed they have done their advertising allready. This therefore places the honest person at a disadvantage.
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If a member is found to repeatedly abuse the Trading forum rules, they can (and have been) banned from the Trading forum altogether.
 
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