Frustrated with the game, the cost of playing the return for money ?

[Mikass]

Mikass, 2x and 3x skill gain periods were introduced shortly after economic crisis was announced RL.

The reason behind this was to show to the shareholders that even on crisis time, EU still generates income.

I wouldn't count too much on seeing another increased skill gain period anymore in EU. If you do some skill gain studies you will see that the general trend now is to decrease the skill gain/ped. Based on my latest studies it's below 0.9% of the ped spent(in hunting)

Sure that could have been an extra motivation. But don`t you think were also trying to compensate for the lack of many ingame systems? I believe we`ve had some skillgain events after VU10.

 

[Xavier Target]

Rapid cost acceleration to progress in the game is the biggest problem with EU. The game starts off like many others with a player learning the ropes, spending a few dollars to get equiped, and then you realize you will need to spend alot more to play at the next level. I see in order to make the RCE aspect more viable the cost probably needs to increase as you pursue higher levels of play, but I think that progression is rather rapid. In order for a reasonable person to deal with the cost acceleration, they need to decrease their level of play. Although I think this works for some, it just isn't very exciting to do. Sweating after you have been hunting and mining for awhile is exceptionally dull.


Perhaps lowering the cost of ammo would make it all work better, or perhaps make certain ammos free.

 

[AJack10600]

Those 2x-3x skillgains came only after VU10 and summer of 2008. The loot system we have in place today was in effect way before these skill events took place.
2-3x skillgains were introduced only to compensate for the lack of certain removed game components. Maybe some remember that when VU10(cryengine VU) came online not even basic system such as teams or tp chips were available. Not even now are all the older system back and running.
Economy was also booming in 2007 with same lootsystem, prior to VU10(cryengine) and prior to RL ongoing economic crisis that started in 2008.

The skillgains event were meant to brush up finances and they did big time... I outlined and analysed that in several financial reports threads. You can read it up again.

Yeah, I didn`t deny that. But I don`t think they`re anymore bitter than few years ago because of the lootsystem.

Markups or certain items crashed because of RL crisis mostly, as people withdrew to use money RL and less deposits coming in. This ofc impacted markup of loot and it became harder to profit from markup. Every player with enough game knowledge knows you can`t profit in tt value. Markups were always key to breaking even and if they got lower means it became increasingly difficult for some people to profit. This doesn`t mean however game became more expensive to play because MA or FPC did something on purpose to mess up the markups.

Also remember that MA was to go live with an IPO back in 2008-2009 and that was delayed. Lots of the cash gathered from that IPO could have gone into platform development. That didn`t happen because of the economic crisis. David/MA said himself they had to delay plans for IPO following the advice of Credit Suisse. This had big impact on development as they weren`t able to use that few mill $ from IPO to finish up certain platform features fast enough. But yet again we have the RL economic crisis to blame for that.

All I can say is that people are not happy and if you look at this poll then people are spending less money in EU. It's the job of the Balancing manager to make sure that returns in EU remain constant. Be it on a TT basis or whatever. The markup is generated by supply and demand. If Markups go down you have to reduce supply to make the market go up. In a game where MA can finetune all the variables, it's the balancing managers job to make sure that whatever the RL economic situation, the game is balanced. Markup is not generated by more people playing and more people pouring money into the game. Markup is a premium people will pay as a result of reduced supply.

Whatever we talk about comes back to the same thing. People are happy to pay 50 or 100 USD a month to play EU. But they are not happy to pay 1000 or more... Whatever you pour into EU, the return with TT and markup has to be such, that you always manage to pay no more than a defined amount of money, like for example 100 USD per month playing regularly. This figure can be more or less of course. It's known that people are not averse to depositing and playing if they get something back for it. Hunting Daikibas and paying 1000s to do it every night is simply no value for money...

 

[mike jones]

After close to six years playing (lost my old ef account details) I sold out, stopped playing, and have begun playing AW. The only reason I stopped was the cost to play, which had increased alarmingly since the beginning of SGA. If MA could force a self confessed addict like myself to quit, then I am not surprised if the playerbase is lowering.

AW is even more of a ped drain then you think EU is

 

[Mikass]

The skillgains event were meant to brush up finances and they did big time... I outlined and analysed that in several financial reports threads. You can read it up again.

I didn`t say financials didn`t play a role in holding these 2-3x skill events. Was just pointing out they were also compensating the lack of certain ingame systems.

All I can say is that people are not happy and if you look at this poll then people are spending less money in EU. It's the job of the Balancing manager to make sure that returns in EU remain constant. Be it on a TT basis or whatever. The markup is generated by supply and demand. If Markups go down you have to reduce supply to make the market go up. In a game where MA can finetune all the variables, it's the balancing managers job to make sure that whatever the RL economic situation, the game is balanced. Markup is not generated by more people playing and more people pouring money into the game. Markup is a premium people will pay as a result of reduced supply.

So if many players start to sell off gear and skills because they need that money in RL due to RL crisis, you don`t see a connection with falling markups? Balancing manager can`t do much about that.

Whatever we talk about comes back to the same thing. People are happy to pay 50 or 100 USD a month to play EU. But they are not happy to pay 1000 or more... Whatever you pour into EU, the return with TT and markup has to be such, that you always manage to pay no more than a defined amount of money, like for example 100 USD per month playing regularly. This figure can be more or less of course. It's known that people are not averse to depositing and playing if they get something back for it. Hunting Daikibas and paying 1000s to do it every night is simply no value for money...

Depends on a person`s budget. Maybe you`re not willing to put more than 1k/month but I know many who are willing to put way more than 1k$/month .

Some might be comfortable with depositing few dozen $ or not even that, while others on the other hand are putting few k$/month. I know quite a few that are depositing such amounts on monthly basis.

Check out what`s EA`s CEO saying on this topic. It might surprise you. http://www.industrygamers.com/news/ea-ceo-digital-to-overtake-retail-this-year/

The free-to-play model has been a huge boon for EA. Riccitiello noted, "Our highest ARPU (average revenue per user) are free-to-play games among paying users. You think about that and say, 'how can a free game be the game they pay the most for?' We have people who are giving us $5,000 in a month to play FIFA Ultimate Team. And it’s free. Dirty little secret."

 

[mastermesh]

Some might be comfortable with depositing few dozen $ or not even that, while others on the other hand are putting few k$/month. I know quite a few that are depositing such amounts on monthly basis.

Exactly. It needs to be fair and balanced no matter if you are a freeloader that only uses profits off of sweat or a mega millionare. Only, right now it's not on some levels. Balancing manager needs to fix that... The puny mobs and things helps the lower end, but there's still potential to do more in that area... just like there's a lot of potential to look at the sib charts and see where the holes are between the various levels. Should be at least one descent sib weapon for EVERY LEVEL in game from level 0 to level 1000, but right now there is not... and that should be in both L and UL options. In several professions the jump to the next sib thing can be 5-10 levels or more... and the availablity of what is there is low... Is there enough whips and clubs for the masses - take a look at how many total sales on that stuff there is daily... whip pro level wasn't even used as a determining factor for Mayhem... I guess that's ok for the whippers with high levels though because it lets them skill in a lower class then they actually are I guess?

 

[Legion]

i choose "I deposit as much as I did before and I play as much as I did before" but then again i'm stupid cause i should stop playing cause it's just not worth the money being spent on it.

 

[thoreau]

I have stopped depositing and stopped playing. I have also uninstalled the game. I'm playing something else now.

I still read the forums to stay up to date with things. I have about 5 friends who used to play and they ask me from time to time what is happening in the game. By reading the forums I can update them.

 

[Arch]

a lot of us need to realign our expectations with regard to what this game really is and either start playing differently or not at all.

the proof that things are sour is the final price for medusa.... if i had a high investment in the game as some people do, id be very worried.

 

[erialor]

Were looking for 'Depositing less - Playing more'..... never really sweated before, though

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

a) We don't have more players ingame... on the contrary
b) People have reduced or stopped depositing or playing alltogether

Meh, IMO:
a) More people than usual (based on seeing more people than before + there are several 100 more auction pages than it used to be just months ago on average)

b) Very few people I know has stopped playing. Depositing I dunno about as I dont ask about that

 

[AJack10600]

Guys with this thread I want to show a status quo and a mood. I simply want to show that people have been depositing less and playing less... or rather, prove whether this is true...

I for example have my limit of what I deposit. I play much less simply to keep playing at that self imposed limit. It is in the nature of my soc not to waste peds, we know how to make peds last and how to even make some sometimes, somehow. But overall, if you want to just play and rinse ammo, you need ped and the ped I need for that imply that I play much less and pay much less. That is my choice. It's everyones choice to do as he pleases.

I want value for money. ATM it's not there. The peds I pay I mostly spend to have a good time with my friends, not because EU is such a great game as it is. Food for thought... my two pecs.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

All I can say is that people are not happy and if you look at this poll then people are spending less money in EU.

Actually, I wouldn't really say that the members here is a 100% accurate representation of the members of Entropia as a whole.

That being said, I do confess that I feel the balancing in loot is not optimal.

the proof that things are sour is the final price for medusa.... if i had a high investment in the game as some people do, id be very worried.

The sale price of Medusa isn't proof of anything. It was simple: Some of the possible buyers went together and pooled up 2.4 million USD they could use for bidding with. Several other possible buyers saw that they couldn't win anyway, or did not want to bid for other reasons (I think Deathifier did not bid because of making other investments at that time or something?).

 

[Arch]

It was simple: Some of the possible buyers went together and pooled up 2.4 million USD they could use for bidding with. Several other possible buyers saw that they couldn't win anyway, or did not want to bid for other reasons (I think Deathifier did not bid because of making other investments at that time or something?).

10ish people interested in it IS the proof...

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

10ish people interested in it IS the proof...

There were 16-17 people in the group that won.

There were several others that were interested and did not bid because they either knew they would lose or they couldn't get enough money.

Still NO PROOF.

 

[M Rufen Power]

It was 2.2 million ped Nighthawk , but no crying over spilt milk is there. Well for me I would deposit more if I could, but then again my playing style atm isnt costing me £1000 a month. If it ever did I guess I'd play less. I yet, I'll see when I get there.

 

[Arch]

There were 16-17 people in the group that won.

There were several others that were interested and did not bid because they either knew they would lose or they couldn't get enough money.

Still NO PROOF.

well i see it differently then

 

[m0rr0w2]

There were 16-17 people in the group that won.

There were several others that were interested and did not bid because they either knew they would lose or they couldn't get enough money.

Still NO PROOF.

I dont think it was so much of they didn't think they could win but more of the fact that they didn't see Medusa being worth 200-300k USD.


Fred

 

[mastermesh]

I dont think it was so much of they didn't think they could win but more of the fact that they didn't see Medusa being worth 200-300k USD.


Fred

yep... or they were frustrated with their other estates as the bugs were never fixed. For instance the booth issue irritated Foma I believe as that was one reason he bought the astroid I think...

Another area where cost of play needs to be lowered - upload costs for the participant content system... one measly 512x512 jpg file after all the upload costs and decay goes costs around 5 us dollars or so. That's crazy high just for a little bitty file like that. Hate to think how much bink movie files would cost. Tried to figure out how much an indie movie would cost to put on a display once and stopped calculating after a little while becuase it'd almost be cheaper to just distribute a movie like that the old fashioned way... plainly insane. They can stream music, so why not video too?

 

[Avery Howell]

Voted don't depo anymore and play less
I have never expected to profit from the game and have played consistently the same mobs and same level with same equipment ranges. I hunt craft and mine, typically in the same areas as before vu10 and mostly set out with 300-400 ped per run on hunt or mine.
My experience is that the loot from hunting is 50% less than 12 months ago - and is continually cycling downwards at present having recently ventured up and down the hunt scale.
Mining I haven't had much difference but no longer global mining but, say, get more finds of lower value - so overall think I get upto 80% return there.
Crafting seems ok as my overall results from the craft terminal are consistent, But selling stuff on the auction is poor and slow with mu on many items in freefall. I would suggest that, contrary to the previous suggestion that more stuff is on auction shows better loot availability, it shows simply a lack of demand and should be considered the most relevant indicator of the games real economy. The lower the demand of an item leads to the people offering it to reduce their prices to gurantee they sell it, rinse repeat. The value of so many items have dropped not because of more availability but through lack of demand.
Additionally; how many items now appear to have disappeared from the loot pool or auction? especially like L weapons eg LR61 haven't seen in ages personally etc etc.

 

[Fanan]

I stoped depositing and I play less


With the playstyle I had when deposited 100/200 euro per month or more, sometimes at day 15º was already bankrupt.


These terrible low returns on medium mobs started to happen right after the end on SGA.


The last year was by far the year that I deposited more and lossed every single month, finished the year without a single uber hof. And yes I tried hard both in time and money.


So if you can NOT beat them, you should join them!


Started to play very low, daikiba, rippersnaper, foul, molisk, argonaut missions. No craft at all. Some trade time to time to recover from losses and of course alote less play time. - Yes boring like hell and frustrated like the Op stated, to get the same amount of globals that I before had in a day, now I have it in a week or even a month.


My aim at moment is to not depo for the next 6 months min. and keep going on Iron Challenge missions.




PS: still waiting for the old content to be reintroduced, like all the "old" players and at some point I hope to depo again so I can try the new beacons system...

 

[AJack10600]

A few more votes would be nice, so I give this another B*U*M*P

 

[ancientrd]

I would prefer the option ......

I depo as much as before...but i cant play as much as before...because the ped are burning off much faster then before

Same : i deposit more then before and play less

 

[bass]

Depo the same and play the same.

In the long run, my average depo rate in 2009 and 2010 hasn't changed, nor the time played, so from my point of view nothing much has changed. I'm a miner at 95%, though.

 

[Shimmer]

Deposit more play less. Lots of nice things on sale now. Tiering costs too.

 

[Nobleone]

An interesting and well thought out poll... Interesting to see 47% show depositing less/not depositing and playing less...

 

[borgaard]

gready

I deposit less and I play less.

the looses vs the fun is getting way to highbeen in here about 6 years, and loot realy sucks big time..

so since ma not whant more of my money, i depo way less then i used to do, also play way less, since the peds are gone pretty fast now days..

 

[chronos913]

I think it's really sad to see MA ignoring players concerned with how bad loot has been, and how quickly peds seem to just slip away. Pretty soon calypso will be deserted, and if the other planets don't fill in the gaps content wise, entropia universe will be left behind by many too. just my . Depo more, play less here too...soon changing to depo less, play when i can, if my luck doesnt change.

 

[Freddy M]

After the last 40 miningruns with ca. 50% Return ( on the last runs some of them were under 45% ) i stopped Depositing and make a break for a few month. Hope it will be better, when I´m back.

I think i install another nice game without costs like "Spellforce" or Command and Conquer", which i played a long time ago....

 

[KiriMistPrinces]

Honestly, it doesn't seem much different than when I started 2 years ago.

I play more, depo less than I did 1 year ago. I actually do more grinding and skilling than I did 1 year ago.

Overall, returns seem about the same. I just have tweaked my game style a bit and have tried out different strategies and approaches in doing what I would like to accomplish in game goals I have.

The only time I waste ped is when I get caught up in pvp for short bursts of time