Government forum on Entropia Forum

NEVERDIE

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It's very encouraging to see passionate responses to my first initiative as VR Prez.
I have requested that MindArk create a dedicated forum for discussion of the types of concerns we see expressed here as well as the ideas for the establishment of a truly representitive government and democratic system. If all I accomplish during my term is stirring debate and forwarding the movement to a a self governing virtual universe, then I will have accomplished something.

If we were to revert this forum to its original name Entropia Forum , then it would be appropriate to engage in dialog here, but i think we should engage in this type of discussion in a planet neutral forum..

I look forward to getting things set up so we can get the democracy into full swing.

Meanwhile , rest assured that I listen very closely and that my goal is to create a more balanced and inclusive economy that will increase the appeal of this platform significantly.

Although at first site adding fees is cause for alarm, I truly believe in the plan I have put forward as a means to address global issues and bring great opportunity and prosperity to the cirtizens of VR and EU.

Please read the press releases and know that I speak from my heart when I say that I want to empower and give value to the players for their time..

Not to say that my strategies may not be controversial or even questionable, I am sure for everyone who is already deeply invested they are disruptive but I believe they have the potential to serve The greater good.
 

Manique

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I hope some of your things are properly tought before acting and most importantly
Do something MA hasnt done much, get back ground from the comunity - Comunication is key
EU is ment to develop for the players and others yet to come, ruining it for the present ones wont bring new ones.
But thats my point of view...

Else I will vote for communism :rolleyes:
 

Elayne

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So is this thing funded with the pyramid scheme deeds sold to players with fancy words?
Adding more "taxes" to already minimal playerbase is not a good idea, stop trying to squeeze last pennies from players left and instead try bring more people ingame.
 
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matthew

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Great job, really nice idea. Communication is important :wtg:
 

mastermesh

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Uh. Ef DOES still exist. Just use it or ep... as for ideas on what to address as pres, check out the many ask mindark threads on ef that MA has ignored over the last few years.
 

OZtwo

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Although at first site adding fees is cause for alarm, I truly believe in the plan I have put forward as a means to address global issues and bring great opportunity and prosperity to the cirtizens of VR and EU.

Please read the press releases and know that I speak from my heart when I say that I want to empower and give value to the players for their time..

Not to say that my strategies may not be controversial or even questionable, I am sure for everyone who is already deeply invested they are disruptive but I believe they have the potential to serve The greater good.
ND if you want to add new features that is fine..but please do not change the current features. If you do not like EU as it is, then I ask of you to please go create your very own game. At this state of the game we DO NOT need this. Please I beg of you please save the game and leave this idea to your dreams.
 

SnowLeopard

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Why not fix the bugs and the other incomplete things instead of creating something new that will inevitably be bug-ridden?
Attracting new players is one thing, keeping them is another, and certainly includes providing them platform they can have confidence in. Easy example: how hard can it be to accurately indicate whether items are pvp-lootable or not, such as daily mission tokens?

This teleport fee idea does little to attract new players -- it's just like a way to squeeze more from the existing dwindling player base.
 

San

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Whichever way this goes, actually listening after being elected is a significant improvement over the real world. Our democracies are really shams where all you get to vote for is the paint to pour over the same pig. Many a pioneer has set out to change the way power is handled, but two or three generations later corruption always sets in. If we can invent a way to prevent that from happening, even in just a simulated model world, it would be a great step forward.

This should be the guiding document:
https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence

Edit: And for the 'government' of any new forum itself, I suggest to look at how the comments section on Amazon works for a system of moderation.

Edit 2: Please no outright cash for teleporter fees! It should be an in-game resource, ideally sweat. The idea is not mine, it was said by my mentor already a long time ago. Variation to include miners: Mind Essence, ofc a significantly smaller amount than for the chips. Nexus availability could be improved to make this viable.
 
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addz

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Bit of a socialist act for your first major endeavour as president of a very capitalist system don't you think?
 

CharlieBuchanan

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Alrighty

It's very encouraging to see passionate responses to my first initiative as VR Prez.
I have requested that MindArk create a dedicated forum for discussion of the types of concerns we see expressed here as well as the ideas for the establishment of a truly representitive government and democratic system. If all I accomplish during my term is stirring debate and forwarding the movement to a a self governing virtual universe, then I will have accomplished something.

If we were to revert this forum to its original name Entropia Forum , then it would be appropriate to engage in dialog here, but i think we should engage in this type of discussion in a planet neutral forum..

I look forward to getting things set up so we can get the democracy into full swing.

Meanwhile , rest assured that I listen very closely and that my goal is to create a more balanced and inclusive economy that will increase the appeal of this platform significantly.

Although at first site adding fees is cause for alarm, I truly believe in the plan I have put forward as a means to address global issues and bring great opportunity and prosperity to the cirtizens of VR and EU.

Please read the press releases and know that I speak from my heart when I say that I want to empower and give value to the players for their time..

Not to say that my strategies may not be controversial or even questionable, I am sure for everyone who is already deeply invested they are disruptive but I believe they have the potential to serve The greater good.
I think having Neverdie will be a great VR President. Look at how fast this issue was replied to, this man really cares about this community (as a whole, the VR community I mean).

I also think Neverdie has a great idea.

I understand everyone's concern about the teleporter fee's. Yes, it is going to hurt your bottom line for awhile BUT think about all the positive things this little inconvenience could help.

I don't know about this whole shares thing and how all that will work out (I really don't want to see a few really wealthy players getting all the revenue because they could afford more shares., etc.) but I'm going to go ahead and give Neverdie the benefit of the doubt that the system used will really be well thought out in such a way that it really will encourage many players to join the game.

My two cents on the teleporter fee I'd like to add is, please make sure, in your estimations that you include the fact that the number of people using the teleporter will decrease temporaily (possibly drastically). People will stay in the same areas longer to avoid the fees until teleporter fees are considered "normal" (This could take a long time, hopefully not though). Account for this.

Anyways, to all my fellow Entropians. We need to stop thinking about our bottom line today and move towards the future. A 1 PED teleport fee could mean the difference between EU exploding and becoming something truly, truly amazing. A game millions of people play everyday and possibly becoming a literal "Second Virtual Universe". MA already has the framework, they have something that works AND the most important part is that the competition has options. MA doesn't need to be put out of business and some giant company like Microsoft starts a RCE and it becomes the "huge VR universe". MA has the planet partner system, if anyone wants in, they can get in. Once this game is really built and diverse (5-10 years IMO) it would be much better to just be a PP or buy MA if a huge company really wanted to own EU. We currently have a monopoly on the VR RCE pretty much (Planet of Dreams,. etc can't compete wth EU in the slightest) so let's not stay stagnant and lose it.

What does a 1 PED teleporter fee mean to you?

Right now, it really hurts newbies.
Right now, it will dip into your pockets a little.
Right now, you will have to make stricter decisions on where to teleport to and when.

In the future, it will mean that with many, many more players your items will be wanted again. Your oils, hides, ores, and enmatters will have MU. The opportunity will return to EU. No longer will the only way to profit be with scrimping every pec out of 102% items or an ATH, people will actively be making PEDs.

AND all of you reading this now are in the club. You're here before everything. You're an owner of Apple before it was big. Everything you have right now, knowledge, skills, items, lands, will be worth much more if this games gets huge.

I say to you all, let's not stop the things that could let us be huge!
 
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Sorry ND, the idea of TP' sucks ... it is (ab)using existing systems and limiting the freedom of movement inside the virtual world. It doesn't make sense.

Avoiding cost by walking and flying will only result in less turnover for those who continue playing. Quick movement to systems inside the game will increase turnover.

PAY to PLAY ... yes
PAY to MOVE ... no

So please be more creative and abandon this idea to charge public TP's.

We already "pay to TP" by using chips. We avoid using chips if a TP is nearby to minimize cost. (TP-ing home is already to expensive so I never use it, although I'd love to).

Democrazy I call this ...

Atami
 

Norbert

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Neverdie

Can you confirm if this plan has been given the go ahead by Mindark, or is this your proposal to be put forward at some point?

I'm sure others would also like to know if this is actually in motion.
 

Vi Bitfury

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What if you could pay 1ped to be able to turn 2k of sweat (refine 2k sweat w/ shrapnel or metal residue doesn't matter = s.r.) into a seedling residue (s.r.) of some sort in order to be implemented into a future farming economy on any planet including a new space city feature as well. Thus, these seedling residue are to be refined with fruits to be turned into N-seeds (N-seeds grows into nutrios - time cycle of 3 moon phases which includes diluted sweat being used as fuel vice H2O for example; rocks+seedling residue= O-seeds for space farming). Crafters & Miners and Hunters would all have to collaborate on getting materials and other resources from the ground to offer/create farming 'soil samples' for plot lands to implement farming throughout the EU universe (let alone transporting farming matz/goods and defending farms to). Farmers (new profession besides boosting trading), space miners (create new MUs/boost mining resource MUs), *another whole new profession would be created called "Builders", and weather pesticides/bugs (pest control hunters) and other so called jobs will be created in this manner perhaps rather than what's being presented. This is all just a big mini vision you could say that could be further discussed and expanded upon.
 

Admiral

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Worst idea i ever heard i hope it never get ingame
 

Svena

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Bit of a socialist act for your first major endeavour as president of a very capitalist system don't you think?
Actually its the opposite of that. Teleporters are effectively player/government owned in that they don't cost anything, more socialist/communist at the moment with MA owning them and making them free to use.

What ND is proposing is crony-capitalism. The selling of public items to private interests for profit.

Crony-capitalism can go fuck itself. I hate it irl and i sure as shit don't need it in my virtual world.
 

T79x

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Hey Dude where´s mine VR Day commemorative Strongbox?
 

Fronske

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Really? You want to create yet another forum? We currently have a dozen forums of which I only use 2 since I hate spending time searching for any usefull info before I can log in and actually play/spend peds.
 

The Jetman

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Actually its the opposite of that. Teleporters are effectively player/government owned in that they don't cost anything, more socialist/communist at the moment with MA owning them and making them free to use.

What ND is proposing is crony-capitalism. The selling of public items to private interests for profit.

Crony-capitalism can go fuck itself. I hate it irl and i sure as shit don't need it in my virtual world.
was gonna say the same, and usually in these situations all the shares go to their friends. (something i wouldn't put past ND)

plus if toulan is included with no vehicle use, it could kill the planet before its born. plus what about monria/FOMA/Crystal Palace, they cannot be travels without TPs (No vehicles or TP Chip can be used)
 
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hottygurl

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It's very encouraging to see passionate responses to my first initiative as VR Prez.
I have requested that MindArk create a dedicated forum for discussion of the types of concerns we see expressed here as well as the ideas for the establishment of a truly representitive government and democratic system. If all I accomplish during my term is stirring debate and forwarding the movement to a a self governing virtual universe, then I will have accomplished something.

If we were to revert this forum to its original name Entropia Forum , then it would be appropriate to engage in dialog here, but i think we should engage in this type of discussion in a planet neutral forum..

I look forward to getting things set up so we can get the democracy into full swing.

Meanwhile , rest assured that I listen very closely and that my goal is to create a more balanced and inclusive economy that will increase the appeal of this platform significantly.

Although at first site adding fees is cause for alarm, I truly believe in the plan I have put forward as a means to address global issues and bring great opportunity and prosperity to the cirtizens of VR and EU.

Please read the press releases and know that I speak from my heart when I say that I want to empower and give value to the players for their time..

Not to say that my strategies may not be controversial or even questionable, I am sure for everyone who is already deeply invested they are disruptive but I believe they have the potential to serve The greater good.
One concern we have is that Mindark, not you, seems to see it fit for us to not have proper in game political forums when we get a president elected, which is kinda the shock for me.
Don't get me wrong, I do think that this teleport system can be used for great things and I really would love to see the invasion system of teleporters and such implemented. I just do not feel that our income should come from further increased costs to the player just to pay us for completing content that likely will cost more than our pay to complete anyways.


On a positive note guys, how many presidents in real life, or political figures in game, would have gotten on like this quickly to address the publicity around one of their posts? I've never seen it, you wondered where his comments are, and very quickly we DO have forward progress. You cannot say we're simple experiencing the status quo of Mindark sticking their fingers in their ears.
We now have a political forum going up to have a proper discussion on, all less than 24 hours after the splash was made. This deserves some serious positive credit.
It's true, we live in an age where EVERY damn thing is being turned over in our games to automation and simplicity and automagical systems in the game. Uniting the community around content and purpose, and offering us more action and storyline while we play is a great thing. It is nice to see community interaction over a common shared resource, just not when we have to pay to defend it, pay to get our pay, and pay to use the system.

Perhaps the system should be based off of us fighting for teleporters and having to as a community build and defend new ones that are vulnerable to attack, or to give land area owners an option to get a cheaper teleporter at the cost of one that can be invaded. Tokens to teleport could be used to ignore local regional conflict and deactivated teleporters, and could be seen as a 'hackers coin' to arbitrarily land yourself within 1km of your choosing from an offlined teleporter for 25 pec?


If we can remove the crony capitalism as is being discussed from this, and make it so we are NOT selling a public service into privatization for personal profit, there can be a lot done here to give us new content without increasing our cost.
 
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I think there is great potential in the transport tokens and tp fees, if the production of them is giving back to the players - two points though raise my concerns:
Before space got reintroduced people used planet to planet tp for one way fees of 40ped to get around, then we got space and spaceships which were sold with a big promise (performing transports) - since the sale of these ships all that has happened was that more and more market share got taken away from them by releasing transport options on auction, 'taxis' (equus) and now developing the transport tokens while the promise of bussiness for all these existing ships is unfullfilled.
You mention to give money from these transport tokens to the space transport mission lootpool yet to come, but releasing shares to earn from the teleporters at the same time means thinning the existing bussiness even further - the overall bussiness for spaceships will be even less because they only are promised a 'share' back from what is taken. At the end of all these adjustments the spaceships end up playing their own 'spacegame' with no real transport purpose for anyone anymore, which will make it questionable why mindark would want to fund transport missions at all - apart from encouraging pvp (we know how that ended planetside when players didnt fight as much as mindark wanted them to...).
Please consider in your aim to improve the universal economy for all players to actually include space and not just the planets in the effort - there should be atleast 2 types of transport tokens - for global transport and for universal transport - and the universal tokens should rely heavily on ressources/manufacturing processes in and from space to assure that space is an integral part of the economic adjustments to come.

Secondly what exactly will be the use for those 10 million $ that are intended to be raise through shares ? How will they be used ? The development of this new system cant possibly take that much development ressources.
There should be clear picture drawn in the early stage of transport tokens that shows the need and use for this money.
 

hottygurl

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Really? You want to create yet another forum? We currently have a dozen forums of which I only use 2 since I hate spending time searching for any usefull info before I can log in and actually play/spend peds.
I fail to see how giving us an appropriate forum for political dissent in the game is a negative in any sense of the word...
 

hottygurl

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I think having Neverdie will be a great VR President. Look at how fast this issue was replied to, this man really cares about this community (as a whole, the VR community I mean).

I also think Neverdie has a great idea.

I understand everyone's concern about the teleporter fee's. Yes, it is going to hurt your bottom line for awhile BUT think about all the positive things this little inconvenience could help.

I don't know about this whole shares thing and how all that will work out (I really don't want to see a few really wealthy players getting all the revenue because they could afford more shares., etc.) but I'm going to go ahead and give Neverdie the benefit of the doubt that the system used will really be well thought out in such a way that it really will encourage many players to join the game.

My two cents on the teleporter fee I'd like to add is, please make sure, in your estimations that you include the fact that the number of people using the teleporter will decrease temporaily (possibly drastically). People will stay in the same areas longer to avoid the fees until teleporter fees are considered "normal" (This could take a long time, hopefully not though). Account for this.

Anyways, to all my fellow Entropians. We need to stop thinking about our bottom line today and move towards the future. A 1 PED teleport fee could mean the difference between EU exploding and becoming something truly, truly amazing. A game millions of people play everyday and possibly becoming a literal "Second Virtual Universe". MA already has the framework, they have something that works AND the most important part is that the competition has options. MA doesn't need to be put out of business and some giant company like Microsoft starts a RCE and it becomes the "huge VR universe". MA has the planet partner system, if anyone wants in, they can get in. Once this game is really built and diverse (5-10 years IMO) it would be much better to just be a PP or buy MA if a huge company really wanted to own EU. We currently have a monopoly on the VR RCE pretty much (Planet of Dreams,. etc can't compete wth EU in the slightest) so let's not stay stagnant and lose it.

What does a 1 PED teleporter fee mean to you?

Right now, it really hurts newbies.
Right now, it will dip into your pockets a little.
Right now, you will have to make stricter decisions on where to teleport to and when.

In the future, it will mean that with many, many more players your items will be wanted again. Your oils, hides, ores, and enmatters will have MU. The opportunity will return to EU. No longer will the only way to profit be with scrimping every pec out of 102% items or an ATH, people will actively be making PEDs.

AND all of you reading this now are in the club. You're here before everything. You're an owner of Apple before it was big. Everything you have right now, knowledge, skills, items, lands, will be worth much more if this games gets huge.

I say to you all, let's not stop the things that could let us be huge!
This works for introduction of a new system that provides a service to us in exchange for a tax.
It is nothing but manipulation and authoritarianism to sell a public service that is currently free and integral to us being able to play and have fun, by selling OUR current asset of having free teleporting away to the highest bidder when it is not their right to do so arbitrarily.
 

The Jetman

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On a positive note guys, how many presidents in real life, or political figures in game, would have gotten on like this quickly to address the publicity around one of their posts? I've never seen it, you wondered where his comments are, and very quickly we DO have forward progress. You cannot say we're simple experiencing the status quo of Mindark sticking their fingers in their ears.


while true, but how many presidents have campaigned for election with no manifesto? or rival.

if this goes ahead, i suggest a coup and put a real president in place, instead of the dictator we have
 

hottygurl

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So is this thing funded with the pyramid scheme deeds sold to players with fancy words?
Adding more "taxes" to already minimal playerbase is not a good idea, stop trying to squeeze last pennies from players left and instead try bring more people ingame.
This couldn't have been better said. We need new systems that we do not get FORCED with draconian laws to particpate in or we do not get our game. We need to be incentivized not forced.
 

Arangar

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Lets do this instead: Add TP's between planets for a cost.. and keep TP's within the planet without fees.

But what about space travel?
- Keep it as an alternative for those who think its fun and have the time, I just want to play and not having to fly in my slow L quad or wait for some other person to pick me up. Besides unless its VIP travel with spaceships, there is no money in it for the ship owners anyway.
 

bigdaddy trim

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I think there is great potential in the transport tokens and tp fees, if the production of them is giving back to the players - two points though raise my concerns:
Before space got reintroduced people used planet to planet tp for one way fees of 40ped to get around, then we got space and spaceships which were sold with a big promise (performing transports) - since the sale of these ships all that has happened was that more and more market share got taken away from them by releasing transport options on auction, 'taxis' (equus) and now developing the transport tokens while the promise of bussiness for all these existing ships is unfullfilled.
You mention to give money from these transport tokens to the space transport mission lootpool yet to come, but releasing shares to earn from the teleporters at the same time means thinning the existing bussiness even further - the overall bussiness for spaceships will be even less because they only are promised a 'share' back from what is taken. At the end of all these adjustments the spaceships end up playing their own 'spacegame' with no real transport purpose for anyone anymore, which will make it questionable why mindark would want to fund transport missions at all - apart from encouraging pvp (we know how that ended planetside when players didnt fight as much as mindark wanted them to...).
Please consider in your aim to improve the universal economy for all players to actually include space and not just the planets in the effort - there should be atleast 2 types of transport tokens - for global transport and for universal transport - and the universal tokens should rely heavily on ressources/manufacturing processes in and from space to assure that space is an integral part of the economic adjustments to come.

Secondly what exactly will be the use for those 10 million $ that are intended to be raise through shares ? How will they be used ? The development of this new system cant possibly take that much development ressources.
There should be clear picture drawn in the early stage of transport tokens that shows the need and use for this money.
I think MA had this in pipeline for a while. When we get tp tokens, space will get delivery missions. I believe I read that you can pay to TP to other planets, but to take good it cost extra that is done through a delivery mission. No mention of cost for interplanetary TP or how they will be made. Will it bp, nitro bars or like shrapnel with no extra cost.
 

hottygurl

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Lets do this instead: Add TP's between planets for a cost.. and keep TP's within the planet without fees.

But what about space travel?
- Keep it as an alternative for those who think its fun and have the time, I just want to play and not having to fly in my slow L quad or wait for some other person to pick me up. Besides unless its VIP travel with spaceships, there is no money in it for the ship owners anyway.
This is an awful idea to simply shit can pilots and the existing space system in the name of instant gratification. If a person wants to teleport from planet to planet and not move their items with them, I have no problem with interplanetary teleportation. They should not get to bring their items with them, this should be a space haul.
This is a virtual universe and is focused on evolving to further become such, if people want something else I generally feel it can be said you may have come to the wrong place. There are plenty of MMOs you can solo grind on, and there's probably a casino near you if you have an incessant need to gamble.
 
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hottygurl

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while true, but how many presidents have campaigned for election with no manifesto? or rival.

if this goes ahead, i suggest a coup and put a real president in place, instead of the dictator we have
One major thing to note is that within 24 hours we already have a political forum on the way to have proper discussions within. No real life political system moves this fast, the most responsible choice as a community we have is to pressure now for Mindark to hurry up with the political forum so we can start having honest discussions and not flame wars.
There's no need for a coup, obviously our leader discusses things even if not before the initial announcement. Everyone is human, a bit of patience can go a long way while we order ourselves to conduct a debate in an educated and responsible manner.
 

SpikeBlack

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Why not try it out RT first to see how well a 1ped TP fee works. If you're sure it will help then why not try it there first as a test bed to prove it.

tbh I think it won't help EU at all other than selling a few deeds as the underlying problem is not as simple as needing funding. MA have had millions over the years and yet EU hasn't progressed I'd say it's regressed compared to where it was in vu7-8 when a lot us joined after the introduction and sale of CND.
 
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