Government forum on Entropia Forum

robj

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The biggest hurdle when I started Playing EU was making sense of the ridiculous separation of all the forums in this game. This lack of cohesion of EU was my biggest roadblock to depo'ing. A universe wide forum that allows open and free exchange of ideas with opposing views that allows for comparisons to other games is vital to the growth and community of EU. Divide and conquer doesn't work when you desperately need to grow a community.

Since the start my depos have reflected my confidence in EU.
Any economic model that relies on growth will bubble with growth then burst when it is stagnant or shrinking.

Seems to me MA is having trouble surviving without cash infusions from stock options like this (re: bail-out) because their basic profit model isn't sustainable.
 

Mac

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The biggest hurdle when I started Playing EU was making sense of the ridiculous separation of all the forums in this game. This lack of cohesion of EU was my biggest roadblock to depo'ing. A universe wide forum that allows open and free exchange of ideas with opposing views that allows for comparisons to other games is vital to the growth and community of EU. Divide and conquer doesn't work when you desperately need to grow a community.

Since the start my depos have reflected my confidence in EU.
Any economic model that relies on growth will bubble with growth then burst when it is stagnant or shrinking.

Seems to me MA is having trouble surviving without cash infusions from stock options like this (re: bail-out) because their basic profit model isn't sustainable.
Every time I think about depo'ing to buy something big, things like this come up and ruin my desire to do so. It makes me more inclined to remove my money from the game than buy more of it.
 

RedThothCrowley

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I am thinking it does not take very long to put up a government forum. I've been checking entropiaforum and nothing has happened there. No new government forum. No post at all from ND. Smoke and mirrors...
 

levithanikos

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Every time I think about depo'ing to buy something big, things like this come up and ruin my desire to do so. It makes me more inclined to remove my money from the game than buy more of it.
My thoughts , exactly ...

IF such fee comes ingame, i wouldn't even think keep playing ...

I would sell out all those tools , guns and skills from 10+ years of playing without a second thought! :(

PS- I was never asked and never understood how , these elections worked ... never had to use a vote booth ... What democracy are we talking about? :duh:
 

HardWrath

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I remember in high school, in Social Studies (this was in the 90's), we did a "class president" and the teacher outlined all of the reasons why it was a big deal, a serious thing, and how the newly elected president would be able to affect change.

After the election was done, like every year, in every school, the class president is able to do a sum total of zero.

It was all for pretend.

This feels kinda like that, except with this, we didn't have an election.

The only person in the world that is able to really change EU is the one who owns the most controlling shares of MindArk. That person is never in the forums, never responds to the players, and is never available for questions.

I know that you have the ear of MindArk but I have a sneaking suspicion that this initiative will backfire in terms of a PR perspective.

I hope that I'm wrong about this, and that you indeed are able to affect positive change.

A TP fee amounts to nothing more than a tax, of which, throughout the history of EU, has proven to only foster negativity within the community. It pulls at the core fabric of this MMO, which is the social bonds that keep us here. Restricting player movement only impedes on social interactions within the game.
 

atomicstorm

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There was an election of 1 because no one stepped up in the 3-4 months it was announced to throw their hat in the ring. Then 2-3 people act interested when it was far too late, they missed the proverbial deadline. Although, this was conveyed as a president of VR (for whatever that means), not EU.

Elections have consequences.
 

DavinFelth

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Why not try it out RT first to see how well a 1ped TP fee works. If you're sure it will help then why not try it there first as a test bed to prove it.

tbh I think it won't help EU at all other than selling a few deeds as the underlying problem is not as simple as needing funding. MA have had millions over the years and yet EU hasn't progressed I'd say it's regressed compared to where it was in vu7-8 when a lot us joined after the introduction and sale of CND.
said perfectly!
 

yeeck

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I have a strong feelings that MA is retiring...
 

Flint

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Good idea to try it out on Rock... tp fees sounds like something that would stimulate more sales of vehicles, jump chips etc. That may be a good economic boost for crafters, miners and hunters. Something needs to change for the better... its turning into a pay to play game. Marketed as build your profession ... for what... Hunt for OA components and mine for a few select ores... its getting boring.

Schrap and Expl bps have certainly not helped this game, a tt slot machine and recycling ammo doesnt stimulate anything but players selling out from what I have seen. Something needs to be done to put the professions back on track, chasing hofs is not going to keep people going. You just have to watch the player turnover on the Ex bp.

Doing something about the Auction would be good, it seems you have to player trade if your not on Caly. 6 ped is a bit steep for instant delivery. Posting access from other planets would generate a lot of fees. Space travel prob depends on people going to put items on auction, but if there were enough events etc to get people travelling to the diff planets on a regular basis or something else to stimulate space travel. The planet partners should get some ideas going to help all planets get good activity.

Just my .02 sense
 

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hottygurl

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I have a strong feelings that MA is retiring...
Are you high? There's more content, more things to do now than ever....wtf.
 

GoNi

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Doing something about the Auction would be good, it seems you have to player trade if your not on Caly. 6 ped is a bit steep for instant delivery. No its not to much, transporting it with a fairly save MS, cost more!

Space travel prob depends on people going to put items on auction, but if there were enough events etc to get people travelling to the diff planets on a regular basis or something else to stimulate space travel. The planet partners should get some ideas going to help all planets get good activity. Just give us the transport missions, that should be funded with the auction delivery fees, well fee in place transport missions not
We don´t need new fees, we need a working economy.

Working economy could be done, someone who got a clue about economy does some balancing (looted vs crafted), so that crafted items become competitive to looted ones and the amount of items dropped from hunting drastically reduced, so that there is a market for crafted.
 

JJO

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Let me break this down to you as someone who studied economics and has a keen interest in real life politics:

1. You conduct yourself like a dictator, not a president.

Since you don't much care for having obtained the position of 'president' by way of a democratic vote, I guess we can safely deduce that you don't value personal rights ... so why would you value virtual rights?

Are we seeing the creation of the virtual world's first Kim dynasty ala North Korea? I'm sure you will work very hard in your first illicit term as virtual president to set up a system similar to the one we now see in corrupt dictatorships: Establishment puppets rounded up for the people to choose a leader from. Only all the puppets are controlled by the same master ... so there is no will of the people, no democracy (a principle you now claim you want to establish ... by way of your undemocratic election).

If you are so confident that we all wanted you to represent our virtual interest, why did you not put yourself in a fair presidential race based on liberty, democracy, and the will of the people? You are like those Saudi Princes who swear that even if they held elections, they would win by a landslide, but in truth they fear the ballot paper like nothing else ... therefore they never resort to it.

And your election was undemocratic. Even MA said they would consider 'weighted votes.' So really, the choice of who the president would be was decided (probably in a closed meeting between you and MA) long ago. The will of the people of Entropia Universe was a secondary consideration that you table now, but I'm certain won't see manifest in your term, because then you'd be right back into that slum you call an office where that brilliant economy you unleashed on RockTropia no doubt had its origins.

2. Wealth cannot be multiplied by dividing it.

You are already speaking about doing things for 'the greater good,' (regardless of the popularity of your choices), which are those familiar honeyed words that have historically and today collapsed many a country's economy. No doubt your policies will be deeply rooted in socialism, which has a track record of eroding a healthy economy like nothing else. Your promise of socialist handouts and redistribution of wealth 'for the greater good' will wreck whats left of this game's economy.

Let me just take a moment to explain to you why countries like Singapore prosper and countries like South Africa fail. Its capitalism VS socialism, and while Singapore reduces its taxes on wealthy investors, encouraging them to bring their fortunes to her shores, creating businesses, jobs, products and services (all of which you need for a functioning economy), South Africa is shedding investors at an alarming rate, as the socialist government in power there seeks very hard to win votes with 'free stuff' paid for by the overtaxed rich. When the rich then cash out their fortunes and move to Singapore, South African politicians are infuriated by the greed of the rich, and punish the few wealthy who still remain by introducing even higher taxes and more Utopian labor laws to make the poor practically unemployable.

3. Real life > virtual reality (no matter what you, facebook's Mark Zuckerberg, or John Carmac has to say).

The REAL WORLD economy is in such deep trouble, that any virtual economy will fizzle out if squeezed too hard.

Remember those astronomical prices for items in this game, just before the 2008 global financial crisis hit? You will never have those days again until the real world economy stabilizes and people have surplice of cash to spend and invest in virtual economies.

The moment you tip whats left of this games economy a bit more over the edge by raising the per-hour cost of play/participation, gravity will do the rest, and people will move their money somewhere else.

I've hardly begun scrutinizing you on an academic, political, and economic level, and you already fall short of the mark. Congratulations, you are so much like what people the world have come to hate about their leaders.

Do whatever you want, my and many other people's cursors are hovering on the 'WITHDRAW' button ... and then where will you get the funds to fund your virtual North Korea? I've done it once in real life, and trust me, I can do it EASILY in virtual reality.
 
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Shady

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he should let you whit your bad game
 

thoreau

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s.

2. Wealth cannot be multiplied by dividing it.

You are already speaking about doing things for 'the greater good,' (regardless of the popularity of your choices), which are those familiar honeyed words that have historically and today collapsed many a country's economy. No doubt your policies will be deeply rooted in socialism, which has a track record of eroding a healthy economy like nothing else. Your promise of socialist handouts and redistribution of wealth 'for the greater good' will wreck whats left of this game's economy.
The teleporter tax is not a socialist style program. It is more similar to a regressive tax which is almost always seen in capitalistic countries.

In short, the teleporter tax hurts the poor the most while rich players can simply fly their private jets to the next hunting area.
 

GandalfSzary

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We don´t need new fees, we need a working economy.

Working economy could be done, someone who got a clue about economy does some balancing (looted vs crafted), so that crafted items become competitive to looted ones and the amount of items dropped from hunting drastically reduced, so that there is a market for crafted.
Well said, balancing looted vs crafting is a key to everything. This died some time ago.


About the tp fees, I remember it was said that CLD income will stimulate growth of the new players and did you notice any? This is just another attempt to drain money. If people pay on TP's they just will spent less on other activities.

Do NOT make any other forums I find it extremely difficult to find useful information even right now. What happens to all RT forums anyway? Learn on mistakes.
 

Nalia

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Do NOT make any other forums I find it extremely difficult to find useful information even right now. What happens to all RT forums anyway? Learn on mistakes.
It's because ND did not success to keep RT forum alive that he pretend to be able to create a new one LOL He will certainly just ask one of his fan boy to manage it like usual.
 

Haruto Rat

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The teleporter tax is not a socialist style program. It is more similar to a regressive tax which is almost always seen in capitalistic countries.
That's because socialist government can achieve the same result by means of state monopoly pricing and thus pretend there's no tax.

Anyway, excise duties and poll taxes (both regressive) historically came before ad valorem and income taxes, and they predate capitalism by a couple thousand years:

An example of the unfairness of this early tax system is the means by which citizens were forced to renew their cooking oil. People were not allowed to recycle old cooking oil. Scribes literally searched homes for used oil and forced the household to buy new cooking oil, and thus pay the associated tax.
(source)

On a related note, Egyptians taxed transportation, too - so maybe that's where Neverdie aka Tutankhamun got the idea. :laugh:
 

DoA

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What I think a good compromise situation would be:
- Have a certain number of teleporters forming a basic network (for example, on Arkadia, my home planet) that could be formed by: celeste quarry, celeste harbour, sanctuary cove, all firebases and main arkadia UG - these teleporters could stay free and would let any player travel to the important points on the planet hassle free;
- Also have the teleporters from LAs free (since LA owners did paid for them and is not fair to confiscate them);
- I think we can all agree that all the other teleporters become a really commodity now and could be charged;
- Any further added teleporters would also be charged;
- To avoid confusion, they should use totally different models.

This way:
- impact on players will be minimal;
- MA will still make some money from deed selling (although they should probably scale down the amount);
- MA will still make some money from TP uses;
- There will still be some money for conscript jobs (not so many jobs, but still);
- As the game will grow (if) and new areas and teleporters would be added said income for both MA and jobs would increase.
 

Sionkiewicz

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What I think a good compromise situation would be:
- Have a certain number of teleporters forming a basic network (for example, on Arkadia, my home planet) that could be formed by: celeste quarry, celeste harbour, sanctuary cove, all firebases and main arkadia UG - these teleporters could stay free and would let any player travel to the important points on the planet hassle free;
- Also have the teleporters from LAs free (since LA owners did paid for them and is not fair to confiscate them);
- I think we can all agree that all the other teleporters become a really commodity now and could be charged;
- Any further added teleporters would also be charged;
- To avoid confusion, they should use totally different models.

This way:
- impact on players will be minimal;
- MA will still make some money from deed selling (although they should probably scale down the amount);
- MA will still make some money from TP uses;
- There will still be some money for conscript jobs (not so many jobs, but still);
- As the game will grow (if) and new areas and teleporters would be added said income for both MA and jobs would increase.
I think the Land Owners who paid large amounts of money to have teleported put on their land would have an issue with this compromise..

How about this.. we trash the TP plan altogether (it's a turd.. and a polished turd smells just as bad) and we work on a plan that actually has a chance of working without alienating all the present customers who put money into this game.

Again, resurrecting an advertisement plan with multiple vendors (not just Massive) would be a better option.
 

Rumsponge

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- I think we can all agree that all the other teleporters become a really commodity now and could be charged;
From the amount of animosity and anger this has caused, I'm pretty sure that it should be obvious to everyone, even you, that this is not even remotely true.
 

Sionkiewicz

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From the amount of animosity and anger this has caused, I'm pretty sure that it should be obvious to everyone, even you, that this is not even remotely true.
:lolup: What he said.. :lolup:
 

Nocturaline

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NO ! to tax on tp.
 

IvoL

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- I think we can all agree that all the other teleporters become a really commodity now and could be charged;
WHAT?!

did you even bother to read some of the posts?
or are you simply brooding on creative ways to rephrase the same message and every now and then dump your latest and greatest version?
 

OZtwo

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WHAT?!

did you even bother to read some of the posts?
or are you simply brooding on creative ways to rephrase the same message and every now and then dump your latest and greatest version?
No she is a new player and does not understand the game or even more how MA works with a limited staff. Most of her ideas come from being in Free-to-Play games most of her life. Nothing wrong with that. Just that every time she finds a subject were we talk about free money she goes all well. :)
 

atomicstorm

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I think the Land Owners who paid large amounts of money to have teleported put on their land would have an issue with this compromise..

How about this.. we trash the TP plan altogether (it's a turd.. and a polished turd smells just as bad) and we work on a plan that actually has a chance of working without alienating all the present customers who put money into this game.

Again, resurrecting an advertisement plan with multiple vendors (not just Massive) would be a better option.
I'm not sure why they abandoned the advertisements in game option. If that's what it takes to keep the game afloat and some of that money can be added to the loot pool.. or if land area owners got some extra peds for having ad billboards and it could calculate the number of eyes (that aren't idle) . Then I say go for it.. the more revenue streams the better.. where it doesn't require player deposit, even better.
 

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NEVERDIE: Be the change you wish to create. If you want democracy, walk the talk and what you have walked will happen. But first it is necessary to walk it.
 

SpikeBlack

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I did have one idea might not be popular but it might bring in some advertising revenue.

Why not play an advert during each teleport which can skipped for a fee. It won't create virtual jobs but it will bring in a revenue stream. A lot of the mobile games use a similar technique.

It's one thing to try and create jobs but to expect other players to finance it is another. When ND mentioned jobs originally I thought it might be content creators selling virtual items or services but to expect other players to finance a job system that has no benefit to the community is pointless and will only create resentment.
 
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The Jetman

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I did have one idea might not be popular but it might bring in some advertising revenue.

Why not play an advert during each teleport which can skipped for a fee. It won't create virtual jobs but it will bring in a revenue stream. A lot of the mobile games use a similar technique.

It's one thing to try and create jobs but to expect other players to finance it is another. When ND mentioned jobs originally I thought it might be content creators selling virtual items or services but to expect other players to finance a job system that has no benefit to the community is pointless and will only create resentment.
i had a similar thought, but internal adverts (didn't think about external ad)

you would be able to go to a tp and pay that tp individually to display your ad, would be good for LA's to advertise upcoming events, and traders to advertise nearby shops (altho i think LA tp's that were purchased should get it for free or much cheaper)
 

SpikeBlack

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We're used to seeing the advertising boards (atleast we were) but as a lot of players rarely get near them now it would create a better opportunity to have them on a TP while teleporting.

There must a system in place by youtube / dailymotion to allow games to stream adverts relevant to a players location.

It might be annoying but it might provide away for MA to take some of the load of the players.
 
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