Have entropains been funding compets?

[Alainax]

Reading through the barrage of threads about compets and EU, it got me pondering.

We all know some of the EU devs have been working on compets. I read people wondering if compet will be the answer to sustain growth and development of EU. In reality, if business 1 is failing and business 2 succeeds, the successful profits will rarely be pumped back into the failing initial venture.

That got me thinking, are each of these two separate companies, or both games created and funded by Mindark? As a result - How was compet funded? Being a new venture I am aware that it will have had to have obtained funding from somewhere in the hopes of being a success to pay back the creditors. I can't imagine pet deeds were enough. As such, are we the players/ investors of Entropia universe been the ones funding it? Have funds, time/ labour/ skills been syphened off for this new venture whilst EU bares the brunt.

I think as investors and customers there should be information ready available on these questions. I would be much obliged if someone could clarify this for me.

If we are paying into Entropia based on the promises of a developing game, it would be concerning to learn that those funds are not going toward what we had thought.

I feel there is a bit of resentment of compets at the moment. It gets all the attention yet the very game which may or may not have funded it is being neglected. The EU players are providing excellent beta testing feedback, pushing the new game to its limits. Yet the whole reason why we are all here seems to be getting pushed to one side.

Please can you confirm if they are two separate entities, with entierly separate funding, and that eu development has not slowed in place of compet.

Thank you.

 

[Scurvy Sityl]

I agree that a response from MA is something we deserve, though I doubt we will see it.

My understanding of what is supposed to be, is that the money from Compet Deeds is where the funding came from. However, even in this case, it is clear that the development team has been taken off of work from EU and put towards compet. So at the very least, we've lost bug fixes, improvements, updates, etc.

 

[Harmony.]

Does it really matter if our peds go to Kim's new sport car, or to his new hobby of creating mobile apps?

Off course the development of compet has used resources that could have been allocated to EU. I mean we have pets that look the same in both games.

 

[Alainax]

Does it really matter if our peds go to Kim's new sport car, or to his new hobby of creating mobile apps?

Off course the development of compet has used resources that could have been allocated to EU. I mean we have pets that look the same in both games.

It matters when someone is deciding to continue to pay into a game which is no longer being developed or looked after in a way which they had imagined. It matters if you do not care for compets, and would like to know that your money will be used within the game you intentened it to be.

I am all for the developers having sports cars, if it means the company and game we love is prospering, profiting and attracting many new investments.

If there has been cross use of funds / resources like you mention, it would be nice to know if these have been properly audited, will appear in the year end accounts and that EU would get back its investment in compets... Or not.

In my humble opinion of course...

 

[melander]

A gaming company works like any other company, you fund new project by success in the old ones. To firewall projects makes no sense from a business perspective and just makes a company more prone to failure since it cant move funds around to keep all the balls in the air at the same time.

When i read these threads i get the idea that people think that MA is running a charity, spending every cent on game development. Game development is what happens when the new car/house/computer/office etc is paid for and is a number far below what you put into it..... which is normal by the way.

- in short, have Entropia funded compets? yes, without any doubt.


If you really want to know what goes on internally you will have to buy stock in the company and sit in on there yearly investor thingies(totally blanked on what they are called ).

 

[atomicstorm]

Is what the compet deeds were for. To pay for development. The devs of compet are separate from eu team. As they've already said.

No one can say honestly that they think entropia isn't getting worked on. We've had fast progress. It just isn't what YOU think is a priority.

 

[Atrax]

Reading through the barrage of threads about compets and EU, it got me pondering.

We all know some of the EU devs have been working on compets. I read people wondering if compet will be the answer to sustain growth and development of EU. In reality, if business 1 is failing and business 2 succeeds, the successful profits will rarely be pumped back into the failing initial venture.

That got me thinking, are each of these two separate companies, or both games created and funded by Mindark? As a result - How was compet funded? Being a new venture I am aware that it will have had to have obtained funding from somewhere in the hopes of being a success to pay back the creditors. I can't imagine pet deeds were enough. As such, are we the players/ investors of Entropia universe been the ones funding it? Have funds, time/ labour/ skills been syphened off for this new venture whilst EU bares the brunt.

I think as investors and customers there should be information ready available on these questions. I would be much obliged if someone could clarify this for me.

If we are paying into Entropia based on the promises of a developing game, it would be concerning to learn that those funds are not going toward what we had thought.

I feel there is a bit of resentment of compets at the moment. It gets all the attention yet the very game which may or may not have funded it is being neglected. The EU players are providing excellent beta testing feedback, pushing the new game to its limits. Yet the whole reason why we are all here seems to be getting pushed to one side.

Please can you confirm if they are two separate entities, with entierly separate funding, and that eu development has not slowed in place of compet.

Thank you.

MA is a game development company.

They're developing a new product.

Buyers of a company's old product always pay the cost of research and development for the company's new products. It's how things advance. When a company like samsung comes out with a new tablet, nobody claps on their tinfoil hats and says "OMG did the buyers of samsung's phones pay for the development of this new product?!?!?"

In this case they offset a certain amount of that investment and risk to their income with the ComPet deeds. This helps to shift a certain amount of that risk onto those who are willing to invest up front for some direct payback if the product succeeds.

Otherwise, of course, the sales (gameplay) of their only other product would have had to bear the costs of new product research and development alone.

It's not exactly anything shady going on. And it's not exactly as if EU has been ignored in this time. Or even just calypso.

Sometimes it helps to get outside of the middle of things for a while. I came back after what was basically a 2 year break and was absolutely amazed at the amount of additions and changes.

I'm not saying I'm happy about it all, or that I agree with MA's demonstrated priorities. But this sort of thing really only takes energy and focus from where it's needed. Maybe we should necro the "Wizards of the Coast " (or whatever it's called) thread too?

I see a couple others have replied while I've been typing. This is normal and good business practice, possibly the best hope for 'revival' in EU development right now is the success of compets.

 

[Alainax]

A gaming company works like any other company, you fund new project by success in the old ones. To firewall projects makes no sense from a business perspective and just makes a company more prone to failure since it cant move funds around to keep all the balls in the air at the same time.

When i read these threads i get the idea that people think that MA is running a charity, spending every cent on game development. Game development is what happens when the new car/house/computer/office etc is paid for and is a number far below what you put into it..... which is normal by the way.
.

If Eu could sit back on its laurels with no further development, still prosper and attract lots of new investment and revenue streams whilst having few million floating around to fund new projects I'd agree with you.

And no, I of course do not think EU is a charity, that's silly. However it is in market where success, profitability and on going investment is determined by continued development. If development stalls or ceases with focus being paid to a new venture, it would be unwise for one to have ongoing investment in the original of you are not a fan of the new one. It would not be ludicrous to wish to know these answers.

If compets is a flop, will EU have suffered, and potentially sink as a result. If compets is a success, will funds be paid back.

It's simply a case the customers looking to have an answer to which game thier money is going towards at present.

 

[San]

At the same time we're getting a big fat update to Entropia with an overhaul of the graphics engine, with the added bonus of an awful bug everybody playing in low graphics settings now has to live with until who knows when. There obviously is heavy lifting being done on both sides, but I wonder if they aren't overstretching it. Folks would have been happy with some important bug fixes, there are quite enough long-standing issues to take care of. What is their agenda, wish it was possible to somehow understand.

 

[Mac]

Make Project Entropia Beta again!

Then maybe they will assign some people to interact with their customers on issues in PE like they do with Compets.

 

[Alainax]

MA is a game development company.

They're developing a new product.

Buyers of a company's old product always pay the cost of research and development for the company's new products. It's how things advance. When a company like samsung comes out with a new tablet, nobody claps on their tinfoil hats and says "OMG did the buyers of samsung's phones pay for the development of this new product?!?!?"

In this case they offset a certain amount of that investment and risk to their income with the ComPet deeds. This helps to shift a certain amount of that risk onto those who are willing to invest up front for some direct payback if the product succeeds.

Otherwise, of course, the sales (gameplay) of their only other product would have had to bear the costs of new product research and development alone.

It's not exactly anything shady going on. And it's not exactly as if EU has been ignored in this time. Or even just calypso.

Sometimes it helps to get outside of the middle of things for a while. I came back after what was basically a 2 year break and was absolutely amazed at the amount of additions and changes.

I'm not saying I'm happy about it all, or that I agree with MA's demonstrated priorities. But this sort of thing really only takes energy and focus from where it's needed. Maybe we should necro the "Wizards of the Coast " (or whatever it's called) thread too?

I see a couple others have replied while I've been typing. This is normal and good business practice, possibly the best hope for 'revival' in EU development right now is the success of compets.

Thank you, the game development company definition makes sense.

I thinks it's slightly different from the phone analogy. As EU is still in active development. My lack of knowledge in gaming companies is evident, however it would seem like the model is for ongoing and continued sales, and not a one off purchase like a phone. If you are looking to attract people to continue to invest in something, development is required .

If the development ceased or slowed to find something else, my question simply is should we continue to invest in the hope that the funds will be directed back at the game we like at somepoint, or bail out the sinking ship.

Of course I know the chance of an official answer is slim, and in reality foolish if it will discourage sales. However I would like to see if we can fathom out the issues. you knowledgeably lot usually have some food opinions on such matters, so thank you to everyone who has contributed thus far

 

[warmdogg]

It's quite clear Entropia is being developed. I know some things are taking longer than others would want but it seems like everyone is looking at the little picture and assuming nothing is moving.

For a company that is do using a lot of attention on the fact that you can make real money via compets and the real money is part of their investing platform/skill luck based game, it would be crazy to let that foundation die.

Entropia is compets USP, it just feels like things are off balance because they are doing a good job of marketing the product being launched and not the already profitable platform that is running in the background.


Sorry to vent a little seemingly smart people are being quite irrational.

 

[Alainax]

At the same time we're getting a big fat update to Entropia with an overhaul of the graphics engine, with the added bonus of an awful bug everybody playing in low graphics settings now has to live with until who knows when. There obviously is heavy lifting being done on both sides, but I wonder if they aren't overstretching it. Folks would have been happy with some important bug fixes, there are quite enough long-standing issues to take care of. What is their agenda, wish it was possible to somehow understand.

Make Project Entropia Beta again!

Then maybe they will assign some people to interact with their customers on issues in PE like they do with Compets.

I actually think you have both hit the nail on the head here. We are not looking for entire new complex and expensive systems. Merely some interaction, minor bug fixes, and what would be lovely would be some of the updates we were told of coming to fruition.

 

[Svarog]

I can't imagine pet deeds were enough.

I see only two possibilities, either all the funds come from the deeds - so entropians who bought them have hammered the nails in EU's coffin with their own hands, or they come directly from our deposits into this game. And I don't know which scenario, being fools or being fooled, is worse (not that it will matter in the end).

 

[Alainax]

It's quite clear Entropia is being developed. I know some things are taking longer than others would want but it seems like everyone is looking at the little picture and assuming nothing is moving.

For a company that is do using a lot of attention on the fact that you can make real money via compets and the real money is part of their investing platform/skill luck based game, it would be crazy to let that foundation die.

Entropia is compets USP, it just feels like things are off balance because they are doing a good job of marketing the product being launched and not the already profitable platform that is running in the background.


Sorry to vent a little seemingly smart people are being quite irrational.

That wasn't venty make perfect sense.

I have been sitting back for a while now, watching it all unfold, I'd rarely post on such matters but felt even at the risk of being called out as scaremongering, some rationed response would be lovey, and so far you all have not failed to deliver

In all honesty, I am deep down hoping that we just have to ride the compet wave for a few months and that it will bring great success to Mindark - which some how... Would be pumped back into EU. I do however think that just presuming this will happen blindly, is a tad niave. Hence wishing for clarification.

 

[melander]

If Eu could sit back on its laurels with no further development, still prosper and attract lots of new investment and revenue streams whilst having few million floating around to fund new projects I'd agree with you.

And no, I of course do not think EU is a charity, that's silly. However it is in market where success, profitability and on going investment is determined by continued development. If development stalls or ceases with focus being paid to a new venture, it would be unwise for one to have ongoing investment in the original of you are not a fan of the new one. It would not be ludicrous to wish to know these answers.

If compets is a flop, will EU have suffered, and potentially sink as a result. If compets is a success, will funds be paid back.

It's simply a case the customers looking to have an answer to which game thier money is going towards at present.

Yea but you dont get that info with any other company presently operating in the western hemisphere though, so isent it kind of a stretch to thing that MA should provide it? If its a yes or no answer your looking for they might provide that but beyond that getting any sort of detailed break down just wont happen with any company, gaming or otherwise.

I understand the want for information from MA and i think everyone would like MA to be more engaged in the community so we can better understand what they are currently spending development time on. What i find awkward in the current wave of threads though is the discussion surrounding MA as a business rather then community outreach, "Are you funding that with EU money?", "who are the investors?", "Is Compets success vital?", "Is Compet success going to feed into EU?", "Are updates delayed to see how compet turns out?". All those questions are questions companies rarely if ever discuss openly, you get those questions answered at a investor level, not on a games forums.

So its not really that i disagree with you, not at all, i just think we as a community are overreaching for answers right now.

 

[warmdogg]

Hopefully the Entropia team will realise how well Compet dept are doing with community support and bug management that they will step their game up.

At least things are starting to move away from stagnation. But like you say, we need to voice our opinions and not be nieve.

 

[Alainax]

I see only two possibilities, either all the funds come from the deeds - so entropians who bought them have hammered the nails in EU's coffin with their own hands, or they come directly from our deposits into this game. And I don't know which scenario, being fools or being fooled, is worse (not that it will matter in the end).

It's quite an eye opener when you word it like that.

 

[EMW]

Compet was ''crowd funded with compet deeds''!

 

[OZtwo]

Does it really matter if our peds go to Kim's new sport car, or to his new hobby of creating mobile apps?

Yes it does very much so.

Reading through the barrage of threads about compets and EU, it got me pondering.

We all know some of the EU devs have been working on compets. I read people wondering if compet will be the answer to sustain growth and development of EU. In reality, if business 1 is failing and business 2 succeeds, the successful profits will rarely be pumped back into the failing initial venture.

Yes exactly why I have been putting up a cry these last few months when finding that there would be no link between the two games. This last two years we have seen a big shift in the way MA is looking at the game with MA itself even selling it off to other companies all the while stopping development on EU and moving to Compets. A lot are going on and on how MA would keep both going but sorry if Compets is what MA is hoping for, MA being so small of a company would shift to the best profiting game.

Now if this was any other type of game it wouldn't really be all that big of an issue, we would quit this game or move to the other game. But again so many are over looking that so many have RL money tied up in this game and can't just have it close down tomorrow.

At anytime now MA could just post an update and let us know what they have planned but again since they have been so quite rumors such as these will just build up and kill MU even more.

It is kind of sad really looking at what is going on. In the long run this game could be shut down. But in the short run how MA is handing things it's almost like they have this all planned out since, again, going this route they are more or less killing MU in game which will SAVE them a lot of money.

But for the many who may think that I'm wrong and see no issue with the game's future then I say: please buy my items while MU is low! You could make a big profit in the future when we see MU turn around! Don't miss my great storage clean out!

 

[Mac]

Compet was ''crowd funded with compet deeds''!

and PE employees.

 

[San]

Damn what is this, everybody forgot to take their meds or what? One whom I considered a professional is suddenly freaking out over a few compet emails sent his way, the other tries to chase away a long-awaited, friendly staff member responding to the calls. Nuts.

 

[Mac]

Damn what is this, everybody forgot to take their meds or what? One whom I considered a professional is suddenly freaking out over a few compet emails sent his way, the other tries to chase away a long-awaited, friendly staff member responding to the calls. Nuts.

I didn't read it as anyone chasing anyone away, I read it as people who invest in PE just want the same kind of interaction that Compet is getting, you know, like what looks like somewhat normal interaction between the game company and the customers that we never seem to get so we are surprised when it showed up. That's all.

 

[Fforest]

Maybe a better way to look at this is in real cash terms and what MA does with it.

In my opinion, the cash is being paid to MA who, in turn, provide us with in-game offerings (strongbox contents, peds etc) in the only product they have on the market right now...EU. Their job is to ensure that they have enough cash to secure the in-game 'wealth' to the extent of the EU terms and conditions (as well as paying the bills)

Now however, part of that cash management includes an attempt at developing another game offering. The aim of the development can only be to improve the fortunes of the company as a whole, and a thriving company benefits all.

I also believe that we shouldn't discount the fact that there are two sides to the coin. Has cash generated by MA from non 'player deposit' revenue streams been used in developing EU in the past? A distinct possibility I think.

MA just need to strike a balance between developing the new game and keeping our interest in EU (and the cash coming in). Given how vocal and speculative our user base can be, I feel that MA have been a bit light on the communication to hold our hands through this whole process. A little of the right information and reassurance can go a long way...

Just my 2 pecs

Ff

 

[John B Knight]

On the intitial announcement of the compet development we were assured that development for entropia universe would not be impacted in the slightest...
...then the calypso lead developer was assigned to mainly work on compets...
...since then none of the already started entropia developments nor those who were promised have been finished to the point were one could say - promise/function fullfilled...
...the sheer amount of reported bugs and errors which would only require a minimum of development/programming time has since then kept growing faster then before...
...space development has been neglected for 5 years now with initial mothership sales promises still being unfullfilled...
in my personal opinion the original promise has not been kept, nor several dozend others - yet i still think that a success in compet will positively reflect uppon entropia universe as a whole.
Entropia Universe has become an investment platform to fund development of other products and this is a very essential tool to have, which i think Mindark wouldnt just dump because another product makes more money.

If compet 'flies' i hereby suggest to release 'comship' deeds for the next mobile phone app - developing a mobile phone space battle simulator with integrated transport missions which have an interlink with entropia universe allowing privateers/motherships/quads/sleipnirs to be hired by 'comship' players to complete their missions for a reward chance...

 

[SpikeBlack]

I also believe that we shouldn't discount the fact that there are two sides to the coin. Has cash generated by MA from non 'player deposit' revenue streams been used in developing EU in the past? A distinct possibility I think.

I agree, I wouldn't be surprised if the the strong boxes and possibly the Ex. BP were used to offset the dev costs of Compets.

 

[ZPF]

Is what the compet deeds were for. To pay for development. The devs of compet are separate from eu team. As they've already said.

No one can say honestly that they think entropia isn't getting worked on. We've had fast progress. It just isn't what YOU think is a priority.

That any development at all was possible with so many resources devoted to compets is pretty impressive to me, considering the size of mindark's team.

The fact that they started a twitch initiative and improved graphics definitely points to a desire to grow EU.

Unfortunately what worries me is the lack of concern for the current playerbase that has been patiently pleading for bug fixes. Adding new bugs before fixing old ones, is objectively ridiculous.

Do they have any plans to fine tune the core of their platform? Or is the goal to bring in more money to crowdfund the next side project? Would be nice to know what's going on in their heads.

 

[Few Scars]

Funding is easy
1. Land plots - we all bought empty plots of land, which injected deposits, but no function

2. Galactic auction transport missions - we have been paying into this coffer for almost a year now...still no transport missions?

3. Stables sold - very limited functionality, netted a nice some of money

4. Equus QUADs - again a nice winner

5. Ethereal armour - suspect this one failed as community said what the fuck is this 50000Ped set of armour. This was the best one though, a set of invisible armour! LOL

6. Compet deed price, artificially bumped from 100 to 120Ped overnight. Dodgy ass trading.

That is how you fund a new venture.

I suspect we can buy air next...and we will

 

[Captain Jack]

The EU sky is falling

 

[Mega]

The EU sky is falling

It's an optical illusion.

Talking of which:

The Electric Brae in Scotland.