Hey MA, how about cap on monthly TWEN loots from one person?

[Msturlese]

it may seem strange.. i really dont have anything against you..
it is just that i see a conspiracy theory or black magic in your conclusions.
for me it is just randomness... the more kills the more ticket for some good return
so.. kill small.. kill many (not so small that a 300x is meaningless)

 

[halftoasted]

I made more Unreal Token that average people per ped shuffled. I asked people who spend different ratio of peds shuffling in hunting(much less, similar to me up to a !@#$ton more)
I rather do crafting lately so I get nothing there... But when I do hunt, even if sometime I dont get 1 for a long time. I end in a sort of phase where I get 1 here and there. About 1 token per 2000p shuffled but thats just an average.. My first token was found probably 3500p-4000p in and then some others followed quickly to find another dry phase and loop.

Will I see a TWEN with my shuffling ? Probably not... Could it happen ? Yeah...
If you do 200 "dungeons", "raid", "instance", "map farming" of another MMO or EU it all come down to the same result on the loot. People tend to view it differently just because there a sort of paywall threshold depending on what you can afford to play because even if you dont lose it all.. You still need those peds as hunting materials in the game. Remember that there is always the lucky one in any MMO and each of us know someone like that. So I just think more loot instance = more results.

I always tell people to try it with a coin or a dice. Play with it enough times and you will see some fucken oddities that barely no one ever seen in their lifetime. Oddities in EU translate into a super hof, a rare item, or whatever. It's normal that it happen more for them but some lucky people exist. Try the dice thing with just 1 for 1 million times. You will see so many streak of things that make no sense. You will start to think your hand has a programmed loot algorithm with a wave system.

 

[ProActive Mango]

The thing is, if it just random then it all becomes a casino no? In order for it to not be a casino game there has to be a system for how it works? waves are not random so why should looting ul items be random?

 

[atomicstorm]

I made more Unreal Token that average people per ped shuffled. I asked people who spend different ratio of peds shuffling in hunting(much less, similar to me up to a !@#$ton more)
I rather do crafting lately so I get nothing there... But when I do hunt, even if sometime I dont get 1 for a long time. I end in a sort of phase where I get 1 here and there. About 1 token per 2000p shuffled but thats just an average.. My first token was found probably 3500p-4000p in and then some others followed quickly to find another dry phase and loop.

Will I see a TWEN with my shuffling ? Probably not... Could it happen ? Yeah...
If you do 200 "dungeons", "raid", "instance", "map farming" of another MMO or EU it all come down to the same result on the loot. People tend to view it differently just because there a sort of paywall threshold depending on what you can afford to play because even if you dont lose it all.. You still need those peds as hunting materials in the game. Remember that there is always the lucky one in any MMO and each of us know someone like that. So I just think more loot instance = more results.

I always tell people to try it with a coin or a dice. Play with it enough times and you will see some fucken oddities that barely no one ever seen in their lifetime. Oddities in EU translate into a super hof, a rare item, or whatever. It's normal that it happen more for them but some lucky people exist. Try the dice thing with just 1 for 1 million times. You will see so many streak of things that make no sense. You will start to think your hand has a programmed loot algorithm with a wave system.

I understand your comment and it comes from a good place. But because of the exploitable item waves, the comparisons to dice or probability systems does not work. The people sitting on the ivory horses will say "well that is knowledge of the system" because they are benefiting (along with their alts and other means). And while technically true, it is quite the stretch.

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

The thing is, if it just random then it all becomes a casino no? In order for it to not be a casino game there has to be a system for how it works? waves are not random so why should looting ul items be random?

By your logic Monopoly is gambling cause it uses a dice.

Random does not equal gambling. And there are skills to use better tools to put that discussion to corner.

Same way as using RNG does not equal predictable drops, as some want to scare us into believing that game would get boring.
It would be in fact a random event within a set odd to happen. Coinflip example fits in, many oddities we can see there. I dont think it would be as predictable as the exploitable timed wave we have currently.

Bots win more? Fo sure. Improve security..

 

[ProActive Mango]

By your logic Monopoly is gambling cause it uses a dice.

Random does not equal gambling. And there are skills to use better tools to put that discussion to corner.

Same way as using RNG does not equal predictable drops, as some want to scare us into believing that game would get boring.
It would be in fact a random event within a set odd to happen. Coinflip example fits in, many oddities we can see there. I dont think it would be as predictable as the exploitable timed wave we have currently.

Bots win more? Fo sure. Improve security..

You are right about random can be a system and not be gambling, but as we see with loots today it is not random and its pattern based.
Everyone will belive their own loot toery until the system gets figured out with proof, so lets go and pray the man above cuz he is more real than most ppls belifs about entropia loots

 

[halftoasted]

Gambling term is just as complex as it get many definition and thats the whole thing here that MA and many rpg use in a manner or another to avoid the "gambling" tag while having "RNG" loot.

Comparing a slot machine to a RNG loot.

The sad comparison btween HUMAN LIFE, SLOT MACHINE and RNG LOOT:

A system that cannot be predicted ahead of time

The result that come from oppotunities you have expectation of but will never know the result before the task is complete at your own expense. Work for all 3...
(applying for a job or making a new friend is more than just having the qualification, having a mini game or a favorable results is more than putting a $ in the slot, getting a rare item in EU is more then just shooting.)

Reward system with a diminishing return
I think anyone with a job and the increased cost in living that always happen will agree that the 3 are the same. The more you spend time doing something, the more you make but the more you spend.

What else is there ? So life, slot machines and RNG loot share have a lot in common. Depending on the 2 people involved into a alley. It could turn into avoidance, nothing, friendship, relationship, !!!!, death, or whatever. Is that RNG on each even?(Not really seeking an answer there.)

So what did gaming do to avoid "Casino" branding. Diablo II* had to redo their whole loot system to achieve that.
*I like Diablo II because lot of people that played RPG can relate to that and the info on loot system is easy to find should one use "google"

Diablo II achieved non casino like loot status with pregeneration. In the end from the rarest to the most common loot. They have a "key" that can open it up. When you kill a mob, you release a key that try to unlock all chest until it find the correct one and open it. It could be empty, garbage or the rarest loot. It all depend on the key you unlocked on the mob. This is where it's not the same as slot machines. A slot machine will react at each press of the button to randomizers. Be it elements, pressure change and so on.(At a super tiny level of changes) It generate each time a totaly random hash each possible combinations have a presumed overtime return of X%. In a slot machine world it mean that on 12 machines there will be some that will always be on the winning side and some always on losing side while others at a decent average while running on the same programming and that during their whole lifetime(some bars with very few machines lost their shirts over this while others got rich). This doesnt happen in EU because no one can say "I rolled a bad avatar and been getting 50% for last 5 years and never got at least expected return once" or "I hunted berycled for 5 years and I know that no one ever profited from them". That just doesnt happen in EU because it's pregenerated and you are generating a key to pregenerated loot chest pool be it with DPP, Kill cost vs hp, item choice or who care what mix or not of factors....(I really dont wanna jump into exact loot theory as proof. I dont feel we really have any proof aside that eventualy something obviously has to happen.)

In the end, whatever way you get the loot. It has to be pregenerated to not be gambling.

Lastly, what is GAMBLING. That is not everywhere the same.

Some area say "If it feel like gambling, then it is gambling".
While I do agree to an extent, that is broad. I feel like Im taking a gamble when I pick a job over searching for another possibly paying more because doing that activity prevent me to an extent from the opportunity of looking for better. Same thing happen in EU when you pick an activity to focus more than another.

Some area say "Gambling is pure RNG from unpredictable sources that give statistical results which even the owner cannot predict the outcome"
As soon as this get pregenerated, the user may still feel the gamble effect but the law has been satisfied. This is where Sweden is at on gambling regulation.

I know... Wave system kinda exist and more nexus hof happen before migration but is it really 100% a wave or it's just more miner target nexus knowing the coming event ? I know that so many try to run with the pyrite before mayhems and with current the auction house is being emptied in nutrio stuff just for reselling given current mayhem reward. IS the wave really that much of a wave or is it way more player influence than we think? I do know that it happen often where people say "Im gonna leave for work 1 hour earlier to avoid traffic today!" <--- Too many end up doing it and somehow the traffic is earlier. Was it pregenerated human behaviors or just nature of human to create something to think way more to it than it is?