Hogglo hunters: how often do they miss you? (An Evader study)

Doer

Marauder
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
7,004
Location
Muddlin' Through
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
David "Doer" Falkayn
Hello, good hunters of Calypso. I'm Doer and you may remember me from such blockbuster productions as Defense Skills; OR, everything you ever wanted to know about Evade but were too lazy to search for. :rolleyes: I've seen a lot of talk since the VU about Hogglos and how often they miss avatars of different Evader levels. A veteran player posited the theory that there are discrete levels of mob HA that are reached at certain levels of Evader. I'd like to test these things out.

So, i'm looking for two things. First, anyone who solos Hogglos is invited to post here their observations about how often the hogglos miss them, and their level of Evader professional standing (since VU 9.2). It would be great if there were hit and miss counts, but that not being very practical, something like "4 misses in 20 hogglos killed" will still be helpful. If you prefer, you can PM me your report and i'll keep your identity secret.

Second, I will be offering a discount on my fapping service for players who want to solo Hogglos. I will just charge my costs ~(FAP decay and ME). Anyone with enough HP will find that paying 2 pecs per 120 hp heal from me is immensely cheaper than wearing two times the armor and fapping yourself. I will keep track of hits and misses, but you are welcome to do the same for verification if you like. This offer is only good for avatars that i consider necessary. Currently, that means we need volunteers that have:
Evader level between 38 and 41 and over 45


You are welcome to remain anonymous on this list if you care to, but the usual rule for naming the team to include my name as fapper holds.

Code:
Evader level  Name          Missrate
9             AkiranBlade   0%
31            A-bomb         0%
32            dbelinfante   ~10%
~33           N/A -- i would take this one, but it doesn't seem necessary
36.8          Coffee         0% (my test)
38             Vedder        ~5%
42            Sacklitch,thebuzz 30-35%
43.4          Black Hawk   27+-4% (several repetitions)
~49          Anon.          ~41% (two repetitions)
84.3          Star           ~52%

I already tested some on Caperon and Chomper a few VUs ago, but i do keep track of those hunts whenever i get a chance to FAP for someone, so you can help out and get some great fapping even if you don't like Hogglos.

Here's the updated plot of the results from the other thread and this one:
Evadervs.mobs.gif

.
 
Last edited:

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
Hi I wonder if this was prompted by our hunt-come chat last night :D


Anyhow here are my observations from previous to this VU:


Evader Level - Weapon - Frequency of Misses
~ 28 - ML-35 - Not at all
~ 31 - MM + A204 - Occassional
~ 34 - MM + A204 - Often
~ 34 - MM + Shear Pro600 - More Often

And now my experience this VU
~ 9 - IM2870 + A104 - Seems like not at all but I'm sure maybe once or twice in 4 or 5 hunts but could've been down to lag


I hope this helps the understanding of Hogglo hit ability.
 

Turnsleft

Prowler
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Posts
1,057
Location
UK
Avatar Name
Turnsleft
Lvl 35 Evader, Phantom +5Bs, LP485 + Bull Tac 50, average is around 5/6 shots to 1 hit.
That said these hogs r hitting harder than ever, I use to get a stream on 1 dmg but since last coupla VUs it's 30+ and many more crit hits.

imo the following VU changes seems to have occured->

if(MA.presentCashFlow.crap ¦¦ MA.HolidaysComingUp)
{
set.decay = MAX_DECAY_VALUE; :wtg::wtg:
}
 

A-Bomb

Prowler
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
1,467
Location
Helsingborg, Sweden
Society
Pyrates of Calypso
Avatar Name
Jenny A-Bomb Jameson
I can confirm you still take 100% hits as a level 31 evader :(.
 

GullyFoyle

Old Alpha
Joined
May 4, 2005
Posts
917
Location
Germany
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Gully Tiger Foyle
I thought it´s common belief that the mob animation isn´t related to their real attacks, so how can anyone know how often a mob misses him? :scratch2:
 

sacklitch

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Posts
792
Avatar Name
Litano Sacklitch Makero
Lvl 42 evader.
Miss 3/10-4/10 of the times

This isent 100% sure tho since i havent kept track on it. But its around that much they miss based on yesterdays hogglo runs.

Ill do a test some day and come back here and write.
 

Doer

Marauder
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
7,004
Location
Muddlin' Through
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
David "Doer" Falkayn
I thought it´s common belief that the mob animation isn´t related to their real attacks, so how can anyone know how often a mob misses him? :scratch2:

Ah, good question. Some mobs have a specific animation connected with their attack (snables spit acid, caperon swing a tentacle, tantillions lunge) and don't. Obviously the first group is the easiest to follow. Hogglos and a few other big mobs have something like a triple attack animation per real attack. It's about 3.25 seconds between each attack (and always the same time for a type of mob), and if you get used to recognizing the rhythm, you recognize when you are missed.

Lvl 42 evader.
Miss 3/10-4/10 of the times

This isent 100% sure tho since i havent kept track on it. But its around that much they miss based on yesterdays hogglo runs.

Ill do a test some day and come back here and write.

That's interesting compared to ~0 at level 30. It seems that the interesting area to investigate carefully is 30-45 or so.

Thanks for your posts so far.
 

sacklitch

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Posts
792
Avatar Name
Litano Sacklitch Makero
i can confirm a missing rate of 30-35% on lvl 42 evader.
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
Would be interesting to know what someone at your level of Evader profession using a Korss or any lower damage per second weapon would experience.
 

dbelinfante

Elite
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Posts
3,596
Location
Magrathea
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Sage
I am almost lvl 31 evader. I mostly use a Geotrek Apis+Dante, and get missed maybe 1 out of 10. I don't think it makes any difference if I use a Svempa X1.
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
I used to notice an increase in miss rate between utilising an A204 and a Shear Pro600.
 

dbelinfante

Elite
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Posts
3,596
Location
Magrathea
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Sage
Clearly the Pro600, more dmg/sec. Hogglos would miss me like Ambus at times using that combo.
That would suggest the higher dmg you do to them, the more they miss you. I wonder if hits/minute are also a factor?
 

waperboy

Prowler
Joined
May 7, 2006
Posts
1,395
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Society
Freelancer
Hmm, I'm only level 11 evader, and to say that they hit me 100% would be untrue. In teamhunts when it roams from player to player, it sometimes happens that the hogglo runs up to me, stands there for a little while howling and stomping, without hitting me, then runs along to the next guy.

Mostly it hits though, but not always.
 

rhogenbe

Stalker
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Posts
2,363
Location
Netherlands
Society
Project -X-
Avatar Name
Siobhan Siam Ameno
1. From hunting in general i get the feeling that the amount of hits you receive seems to have a sinusoidal function over time or number of attacks received in it. A test should be lengthy enough to average out these sort of effects.

2. Hitting a mob with a weapon seems to sometimes disrupt their attack sequence. When i hunt Hogglo solo i get hit way more often then when i am FAPping then when i am shooting. The question is what kind of impact do the different weapons/amp combo's have on the hit/miss rate. Mayby a weapon that does 100 damage on a hit has a 50% chance on disrupting the attack while a weapon that does 50 damage on a hit mayby only 30%.

3. Maturity of mobs seem to have a lot of influence on their hit/miss rate. Hogglo Old manage to hit me more often then Hogglo Young.

If you would want a pure test one would have to make all things pretty much equal.

Like letting a Hogglo young pound you for 1000 (or more? and multiple test repeats) attacks then see the hit/miss rate. Also crits should be noted down. And set this against evader profession level. Unless the avatar has a lot of HP this can be costly on armor/FAP decay to test.

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)
 

dbelinfante

Elite
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Posts
3,596
Location
Magrathea
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Sage
Hmm, I'm only level 11 evader, and to say that they hit me 100% would be untrue. In teamhunts when it roams from player to player, it sometimes happens that the hogglo runs up to me, stands there for a little while howling and stomping, without hitting me, then runs along to the next guy.

Mostly it hits though, but not always.
Doer DID ask specifically for the experiences of people SOLOING hoggs.
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
That would suggest the higher dmg you do to them, the more they miss you. I wonder if hits/minute are also a factor?

It's definately a tendancy more toward dmg/sec. If it were hit frequency alone, a Mann MPH could be used to tank a Hogg... unrealistic really. Slow frequency hard hitters end up being a lower dmg/sec, in reality, have less affect on Hogglo hit rate, imho.
 

dbelinfante

Elite
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Posts
3,596
Location
Magrathea
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Sage
It's definately a tendancy more toward dmg/sec. If it were hit frequency alone, a Mann MPH could be used to tank a Hogg... unrealistic really. Slow frequency hard hitters end up being a lower dmg/sec, in reality, have less affect on Hogglo hit rate, imho.
Fair enough. It doesn't get much better (or crazier) than a MM+Pro600. But if your assumptions are correct, I could do worse than a Apis+Dante.
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
Fair enough. It doesn't get much better (or crazier) than a MM+Pro600. But if your assumptions are correct, I could do worse than a Apis+Dante.

As soon as you are doing similar dmg/sec as an MM can put out, I'd expect to start seeing an increase in misses from Hoggies. By that time you will have increased your Evader level to near where I was I guess, if not more. Then it's like hunting big Atrox in Ghost+5Bs, easy. :D
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
Fair enough. It doesn't get much better (or crazier) than a MM+Pro600. But if your assumptions are correct, I could do worse than a Apis+Dante.

Unfortunately, the combo never saw me receive a miss from a Daspletor :D
 

Jimmy B

Indioni Jones
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Posts
12,256
Location
UK
Society
Skillin' Villains
Avatar Name
Oni
Subscribing.

Having sold my jag I'm not hugely keen on trying to solo them and count hits in Ghost+5B. But I'll be hitting 25 Evader sometime next week I think so if you still need numbers for that one let me know and we can do a run with your fap Doer.

Be interesting to see if the dmg/sec or hit rate thing actually makes a difference or not. I tend to feel it does but I've never been sure whether that's just my imagination or not.

Would also be great to get some numbers from someone with really high evade in the 70s or something.
 

Oleg

Mutated
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Posts
19,089
Location
Leeds, UK
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Oleg Oleg McMullery
2. Hitting a mob with a weapon seems to sometimes disrupt their attack sequence. When i hunt Hogglo solo i get hit way more often then when i am FAPping then when i am shooting.

You have it backwards - you're fapping because you're getting hit, not getting hit because you're fapping.

I don't believe for a moment that hitting a mob disrupts its attack, but with the cyclical way that mob attacks work, people often perceive it that way.
 

Doer

Marauder
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
7,004
Location
Muddlin' Through
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
David "Doer" Falkayn
Having sold my jag I'm not hugely keen on trying to solo them and count hits in Ghost+5B. But I'll be hitting 25 Evader sometime next week I think so if you still need numbers for that one let me know and we can do a run with your fap Doer.

Be interesting to see if the dmg/sec or hit rate thing actually makes a difference or not. I tend to feel it does but I've never been sure whether that's just my imagination or not.

Would also be great to get some numbers from someone with really high evade in the 70s or something.

I'm up for fapping on them; haven't had any takers yet. I'm waiting for my Evader level to pass 33 and perhaps a decent loot finally and then i'll go stand in front of a young (and perhaps, after that, a mature) for a severe beating.

I have always been skeptical about interrupting the attack because that would require deliberate programming, and it just seems like something that would be more obvious and/or mentioned by MA if they spent the time necessary to have that happen. Also, when i was testing caperon, i had the test subjects plink it continuously with a mann. The lack of substantial deviation from my own (nonfiring) test means that it's not rate that makes a difference, or that the difference is too small to notice on the few tests i did (large deviation).

A few tests with a high level Evader would really improve understanding of how evade works. Unfortunately, i never get any volunteers. Too busy off doing their own uber things, i guess.
 
Last edited:

Immortal

Slayer
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Posts
8,538
Society
cK Coat Killers
Avatar Name
Hadlen Immortal Deity
Can confirm lvl 25 gets pwned by hogg. I never noticed cos of all the 1.0

While we're waiting for me to unlock quickness cough shall we start this on dasp too? :D
how about spiders? spiders miss :whip:

(oh wait the new VU spiders might not...:eek:)

shush me :whip:
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
But since you had well over 130 HP, a hit from them was never a problem anyway! :yay:

There are few things I miss while being a niblet again and 170 HP is one of them :D

However, as my blog shows, I'll be back up there soon enough :D
 

Doer

Marauder
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
7,004
Location
Muddlin' Through
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
David "Doer" Falkayn
Can confirm lvl 25 gets pwned by hogg. I never noticed cos of all the 1.0

While we're waiting for me to unlock quickness cough shall we start this on dasp too? :D
how about spiders? spiders miss :whip:

(oh wait the new VU spiders might not...:eek:)

shush me :whip:

Spiders... haha. Well, testing that for multiple evader levels might take a while. How many times do you want to run back and get slaughtered? :laugh:

The easiest mobs to test on are ones that are (1) hunted a lot and (2) miss very little. It's easier to count misses when the majority are hits.

When i fapped on dasps, i was too busy fapping my fingers off to do much counting. What i did do is meaningless without other reference points.

I can't even find test subjects for hogglos; spiders and dasps are a little unrealistic, i think...

Anyone who wants to conduct careful tests on tantillions or other small mobs according to instructions i can give is very welcome, however. If we can really nail one mob across a large range, it will help interpret other data.
 
Top