Help: how does decay work mining?

[swampymonster]

Hello,

My name is swampy and I am new to being a depositer. I have fallen in love with mining and I want to know how to be more efficient.

Question 1: does eco on finder matter? Or is decay from finder factored into the yield value of my find?

Question 2: what is the best economy excavator ? Looks like demonic excavator from entropedia. Is that correct?

That's it for now thanks

 

[Neil Stockton]

I do not believe that finder decay is returned in loot, so yes it matters which finder you use. Deeper finders tend to have more decay per drop, with some exceptions (like F-106).

The demonic excavator is very slow, intended for rookie claims I think. As I understand it, efficiency is proportional the number of stones it brings up per pull, so efficiency per pec would be the "eco" of excavators. There are reasons for using other excavators (mobs, pvp, large claims) but in general if you're mining unamped you'll want to use the TT excavator. I believe all the planets currently have a very efficient excavator in the TT.

 

[Futurama]

For a beginner I would suggest using TT extractor, for most part you won't need anything bigger unless you go amped foma/hell/underground mining.

 

[swampymonster]

I didn't know some excavators pull more stones than others.

So the md-50 looks like a good choice for a finder? I would save 1.20 per per 100 drops vs my f105

 

[sawachika]

I didn't know some excavators pull more stones than others.

So the md-50 looks like a good choice for a finder? I would save 1.20 per per 100 drops vs my f105

Sure it does look like your saving 1.20 ped per 100 drops. But one should not only look at the decay. You should also consider its "Range", "Depth" as well as "Markup" of the finder.

The MD-50 is an old-time finder so only a limited few of them exists. If your planning to get one, expect to pay a pretty dime (hefty price) for it.

If you take into consideration of the other stats I've mentioned...I'm pretty sure your F-105 would do you just fine imo.

 

[swampymonster]

Thank you guys for the considerations. I do just unamped mining so I'll stick to my f105 and keep using the tt excavator. I have had two hofs bUT nothing the old tt one can't dig up

 

[kingofaces]

If you find one on auction, an F-212 (L) will get you more depth for less decay even when you include markup (unless you buy it for >150% MU. The only reason to use unlimited finders is if you're planning on tiering and using enhancers. For some reason people tend to forget about the limited finders, or else they just haven't calculated what the decay would be when you account for markup. The F-211 to 213 (L) all have lower decay than your F-105 at current markup, and the F-212 normally has slightly lower decay than the F-106.

 

[atomicstorm]

You should always note that decay is always lost. Plan accordingly.

Extractors and finders are like defensive decay. You want that as small as possible.

 

[Ace Flyster]

FYI, finder decay is taken into account with loot size.

This was proven by myself, and i forget who, Eye?

Anyways a competition where part of it was to find II's. We were both using high end finders and could hardly find any II's cause decay of finder was too high. Switched to tt finder (massively low decay incomparison) and we could find plenty of II's

Rgds

Ace

 

[Neil Stockton]

FYI, finder decay is taken into account with loot size.

This was proven by myself, and i forget who, Eye?

Anyways a competition where part of it was to find II's. We were both using high end finders and could hardly find any II's cause decay of finder was too high. Switched to tt finder (massively low decay incomparison) and we could find plenty of II's

One switch is not proof. If it's repeatable at will then that's a different story.

 

[Ace Flyster]

One switch is not proof. If it's repeatable at will then that's a different story.

To be honest i am bored of providing proof anymore. Go test it yourself if you don't believe me

Rgds

Ace

 

[kingofaces]

FYI, finder decay is taken into account with loot size.

This was proven by myself, and i forget who, Eye?

Anyways a competition where part of it was to find II's. We were both using high end finders and could hardly find any II's cause decay of finder was too high. Switched to tt finder (massively low decay incomparison) and we could find plenty of II's

Rgds

Ace

Can that rule out variation in how loot is distributed though? I've had times mining unamped just starting out, and never found II's at some times, while at other times I'd get quite a few.

 

[Ace Flyster]

Can that rule out variation in how loot is distributed though? I've had times mining unamped just starting out, and never found II's at some times, while at other times I'd get quite a few.

Variation in PE is awesome and massive lol. Yes you need quite a few data points for significance.

Rgds

Ace

 

[Neil Stockton]

You'd also need to equalize depth for the high and low decay finders... expecting to get the same size claims from lyst and azzurdite just isn't going to happen.

Variation in PE is awesome and massive

You're talking about the current game right? Cause it's not PE anymore for a long time now...

To be honest i am bored of providing proof anymore. Go test it yourself if you don't believe me

Sure, which finders did you use?

 

[kingofaces]

Variation in PE is awesome and massive lol. Yes you need quite a few data points for significance.

Rgds

Ace

With that, you're basically saying you didn't demonstrate that decay affects claim size. Not trying to be argumentative here at all, but from what you've described, you're making a claim without evidence to support it. Either way, probably best to leave a conversation such as this in a loot theories thread rather than hijack the OPs post.

 

[Neil Stockton]

Either way, probably best to leave a conversation such as this in a loot theories thread rather than hijack the OPs post.

Well it is directly related to the OP's question #1....

 

[Colbey Kal]

Neither the person that said "Finder Decay does effects claim size" nor the people that say "Finder Decay does not effect claim size" have provided any data - which is fine. Strong data is a annoying to get. Complaining about the person disagreeing with you because they havent' provided proof when you also haven't is kind of of asinine though isn't it?

That being said..... I don't have an opinion on the matter and I'm interested. Someone want to show me their data? I'd love to come to my own conclusions without the hassle of tracking the details! (Yes, I'm being lazy )

( Ace did at least provide a great way to test the idea without too much annoying tracking of the details. Neil pointed out that some things like finding the same mix of resources - preferably an unmixed field - is an important caveat to consider. )

 

[kingofaces]

Well it is directly related to the OP's question #1....

Tangential, yes. If we're discussing what we know about decay for a beginner, that's very relevant. On the other hand, loot theory discussions of this nature tend to hijack topics and can careen off in different directions. Mainly just making sure we keep the focus here on the former rather than the latter.

 

[Ace Flyster]

How about this as a suggestion. As things in PE can and have changed i propose this, a quick test.

Below are my latest claim sizes using terrafinder8 unamped.

189 Claims:
II = 6 claims = 3.17%
III = 21 claims = 11.11%
IV = 106 claims = 56.08%
V = 54 claims = 28.57%
VI = 2 claims = 1.05%

No claims above VI, approx 500 bombs.

These were mainly belkar duru gazz, all possible to get II's (including duru, i believe?)

So if someone with a tt finder can post their last 200 claims sizes, so we can compare that would be great.

So i have offered up half the resources to test.

Rgds

Ace

PS i know 200 claims is a small number, and happy to post more when i get more. If someone is happy to post claim sizes with tt finder. Also i appreciate ideally we need to be in the same area, but that is getting far too in detail at this stage.

 

[Xen]

FYI, finder decay is taken into account with loot size.

This was proven by myself, and i forget who, Eye?

Anyways a competition where part of it was to find II's. We were both using high end finders and could hardly find any II's cause decay of finder was too high. Switched to tt finder (massively low decay incomparison) and we could find plenty of II's

Rgds

Ace

Actually, this is how I beat you in that mining competition a long time ago, remember? Needed to find a tiny or something and it couldn't be done unless using a very low decay finder.

I have no idea if it still works that way though.

 

[swampymonster]

How about this as a suggestion. As things in PE can and have changed i propose this, a quick test.

Below are my latest claim sizes using terrafinder8 unamped.

189 Claims:
II = 6 claims = 3.17%
III = 21 claims = 11.11%
IV = 106 claims = 56.08%
V = 54 claims = 28.57%
VI = 2 claims = 1.05%

No claims above VI, approx 500 bombs.

These were mainly belkar duru gazz, all possible to get II's (including duru, i believe?)

So if someone with a tt finder can post their last 200 claims sizes, so we can compare that would be great.

So i have offered up half the resources to test.

Rgds

Ace

PS i know 200 claims is a small number, and happy to post more when i get more. If someone is happy to post claim sizes with tt finder. Also i appreciate ideally we need to be in the same area, but that is getting far too in detail at this stage.

I'll do it. I'm on vacation right now but get back this weekend. Can u tell me the area you where in? I can report my findings I'll drop 500 exactly

 

[Ace Flyster]

I'll do it. I'm on vacation right now but get back this weekend. Can u tell me the area you where in? I can report my findings I'll drop 500 exactly

Hey swampymonster, if you want to be as accurate as possible, mine anywhere round shinook in a taxed LA.

Rgds

Ace

 

[swampymonster]

Hey swampymonster, if you want to be as accurate as possible, mine anywhere round shinook in a taxed LA.

Rgds

Ace

Ok sounds good I'll try to stay in shinook and in taxed zone. I also use lbml fwiw.

 

[Vadio]

since i see this post can say

my test between F106 and Terramaster 6
Both in dual

And yes my actual TT% increase
I going test more deeper in MU

No enhacer/No amp

 

[Neil Stockton]

How about this as a suggestion. As things in PE can and have changed i propose this, a quick test.

Below are my latest claim sizes using terrafinder8 unamped.

189 Claims:
II = 6 claims = 3.17%
III = 21 claims = 11.11%
IV = 106 claims = 56.08%
V = 54 claims = 28.57%
VI = 2 claims = 1.05%

No claims above VI, approx 500 bombs.

These were mainly belkar duru gazz, all possible to get II's (including duru, i believe?)

So if someone with a tt finder can post their last 200 claims sizes, so we can compare that would be great.

So i have offered up half the resources to test.

Rgds

Ace

PS i know 200 claims is a small number, and happy to post more when i get more. If someone is happy to post claim sizes with tt finder. Also i appreciate ideally we need to be in the same area, but that is getting far too in detail at this stage.

Looking at claim size distribution is interesting but I doubt it'll answer the question of whether decay is calculated in loot.

What I'd do is this:
Use ONE avatar and flip a coin which finder to use for each drop. Mine in a lyst (or oil) only area. Record the exact TT value received from each claim and which finder you used. You need to remove the effects of multipliers so I would look to see if there is a significant difference in the size of the smallest multiplier claims.

Also we're looking for only a few percent difference, so it won't work to say "i used a big decay finder and got more loot". You'd need to look at like 50 or 100k ped turnover and at that point you've got so many other variables you'd never be sure it was due to the different decay.

 

[Arm]

Is finder/excavator decay returned in subsequent mining or in skills?

 

[Deepa2]

Is finder/excavator decay returned in subsequent mining or in skills?

Current popular believe is what finder decay is returned (more or less tested and proven), excavator is not.