How expensive is this Mayhem for you?

Spawn

Slayer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Posts
8,006
Location
The Netherlands
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Storm Spawn Bootcamp
i just have to check do they use therapist as that would explain lack of comon sense.

P.S. did u actualy posted how much you make.? thats like showing off how big pipi u think u have but actualy its only 3inhces.... yikes
Yeah well, what can I say, education wages suck.
 

Iceman2003

Dominant
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Posts
396
Avatar Name
Just the Iceman JTI
So mabey I share my results:
Animal looter 42lvl
BC-60+42p amps
Imp ares

TT IN: 256 948,70
TT OUT: 240 339,06
93,54% TT( -16 609,64peds)

1 hof 1,4k peds, nothing more. Looks like everyone getting hofs around me but Im getting shit.
 

Ferial

Dominant
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Posts
403
Location
Sweden
Avatar Name
Chris Ferial Book
1 hof 1,4k peds, nothing more. Looks like everyone getting hofs around me but Im getting shit.

Maybe I can make you feel better :)

Finished Redulite:
XE4zlBv.png

TT Ped out = Ammo + repairs. It doesn´t include Mind Essence for resto chip, decay portion of L amps, nor the broken enhancers (not that many anyways)
TT Ped in = Anything looted. It does not include the mission reward TT

Setup:
Omegaton ASG-12 Bucketful + Mayhem B-Amplifier Alpha (L). 64.9 Efficiency
Later changed to Omegaton ASG-12 Bucketful + Fi/Ra/Co Evil Improved 61.9 efficiency.
Occasionally enhanced with 5 damage enhancers which would further bring down the efficiency slightly, but most of it was unenhanced.
Level 54-56 Animal Looter.
Primarily Cat 4. Some Cat 5, a tiny bit of Cat 6 and Cat 3

4aWxm0f.png


LAn2070.png


wk847R9.png


Colored Cells are TT%:
Green: 100+%
White: 89.x% -> 100%
Red: 75.x% -> 89%
Blue: >= 75

Average number of kills per entry: 455,2291667

Not gonna lie, feels pretty rough. But you know. Just keep shooting :)
 
Last edited:

Alina

Elite
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Posts
3,226
Location
Bucharest
Society
freeeeee
Avatar Name
Stoica Alina Alina
97.38% but next count should bring me over 98,5%
 

MikeH

Alpha
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Posts
634
Society
AoC 2.0
Avatar Name
Mike KingMike007 Hussey
Year-MonthcostlootTT +/-TT %
2021-Dec517,699.62 PED507,009.03 PED-10,690.59 PED97.93 %
2022-Jan61,492.35 PED66,751.04 PED5,258.69 PED108.55 %
Grand Total579,191.97 PED573,760.07 PED-5,431.90 PED99.06 %


This game is too expensive lost 5.4k within a month . I am quiting......
 
Last edited:

Nik-Elas

Alpha
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Posts
553
Location
Sweden
Society
Deagleteam
Avatar Name
Niklas Negolas Hedlund
Year-MonthcostlootTT +/-TT %
2021-Dec517,699.62 PED507,009.03 PED-10,690.59 PED97.93 %
2022-Jan61,492.35 PED66,751.04 PED5,258.69 PED108.55 %
Grand Total579,191.97 PED573,760.07 PED-5,431.90 PED99.06 %


This game is too expensive lost 5.4k within a month . I am quiting......
Well with that turnover you probably got atleast 10k worth of tokens and boxes though?!
 

XarcX

Old Alpha
Joined
May 28, 2005
Posts
701
Avatar Name
Xarcx XarcX Seras
Little update, now over 15k tt loss. This is amazing tho, the more I lose the more I profit!! :love::love:

By know everyone know that you pay for the mayhem tokens you grind, which is fine in itself since you can use that to retrieve or sell higher value mayhem items so it motivates participation in the event.

What is not fine is the extreme high variance loot in the event which makes it look more or less like a high variance slot machine.
It seems like they are trying to normalize the mindset of having 10k loss in one week and hope to hit a 10k+ high hof to recover.

This makes the "Just keep shooting" remark sound like degenerate gambling "keep on shooting then you will hit the jackpot for sure!".

When you think about it the combination of having tokens that keeps forcing you mentally to continue even with high loss to retrieve prices and then have really high variance loot which risk you to lose thousand of peds chasing a jackpot makes these events very much like gambling.

I wonder if this event structure really have acceptable ruleset for not making entropia a gambling platform. You can use the argument that "skills matter" but when looking at this event in itself with its price structure and loot structure is something that I think that "Spelinspektionen" (Swedish gambling authority) would consider being gambling.
 
Last edited:

Evey

Elite
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Posts
3,069
Avatar Name
Eve Everglades
By know everyone know that you pay for the mayhem tokens you grind, which is fine in itself since you can use that to retrieve or sell higher value mayhem items so it motivates participation in the event.

What is not fine is the extreme high variance loot in the event which makes it look more or less like a high variance slot machine.
It seems like they are trying to normalize the mindset of having 10k loss in one week and hope to hit a 10k+ high hof to recover.

This makes the "Just keep shooting" remark sound like degenerate gambling "keep on shooting then you will hit the jackpot for sure!".

When you think about it the combination of having tokens that keeps forcing you mentally to continue even with high loss to retrieve prices and then have really high variance loot which risk you to lose thousand of peds chasing a jackpot makes these events very much like gambling.

I wonder if this event structure really have acceptable ruleset for not making entropia a gambling platform. You can use the argument that "skills matter" but when looking at this event in itself with its price structure and loot structure is something that I think that "Spelinspektionen" (Swedish gambling authority) would consider being gambling.
Skills do matter and no, not everyone pays for the tokens, some of them get them for free or even profit. Because skills do matter and the weapon you shoot with also matters as well as how much you shoot.
One thing is for sure, people will never be completely satisfied no matter what.

Before this Mayhem format, the event was for maybe 5% of the players, for those that had access to high end gear for a short period of time. Those that already had gear and would grind the full event versus renting gear for one run, would sustain high tt losses but would make up for them in boxes and faster mayhem vendor item. Now this format is for absolutely everyone; everyone can loot one or more rare tokens (previously awarded to only the top players in their cat) but because the event is for everyone and everyone tries it, now everyone will experience bigger losses due to higher than usual turnover. Big surprise, the bankroll management is gonna byte your ass if you came unprepared and if you were hoping to casually tt profit or break even with average equipment and skills... big surprise, skills do matter and 2.0 guns actually have a major impact...

Most 2.0 guns, high cycle and above average skills report 97 to almost 100% tt return and yet you're playing the Swedish gambling authority card because your results are not the same with the top equipment and skills.... good argument...
 
Last edited:

True Juan

Marauder
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Posts
5,508
Location
Slovakia
Society
Cz-Sk Crows
Avatar Name
True TJ Juan
There is a lot of great advice from great players here (not sure why they bother giving advice to the same players for years - waste of time).

My observation: The less I type on forum the more opportunities I have to turn profit :)
 

XarcX

Old Alpha
Joined
May 28, 2005
Posts
701
Avatar Name
Xarcx XarcX Seras
but because the event is for everyone and everyone tries it, now everyone will experience bigger losses due to higher than usual turnover. Big surprise, the bankroll management is gonna byte your ass if you came unprepared and if you were hoping to casually tt profit or break even with average equipment and skills... big surprise, skills do matter and 2.0 guns actually have a major impact...

Most 2.0 guns, high cycle and above average skills report 97 to almost 100% tt return and yet you're playing the Swedish gambling authority card because your results are not the same with the top equipment and skills.... good argument...

Yes I agree that the event is for everyone and that those with top gear have (and should have) a bigger advantage.

Although what I observe and fear is that most of the playerbase, which (believe it or not) play this game with normal investment level, dedicate a healthy amount of time per day playing and have average gear will get returns that have awful high variance and lose big peds in short time resulting with that they either quit the game or get addicted and keep chasing the big hofs.

These daily 10k+ hofs on low hp mobs and reports of players losing 10-30k peds in a few weeks show that this is not loot returns that are healthy and looks like something you see at casino slots (or EP4 crafting). Are you considering that to be healthy in a (non-gambling) RCE?

Also I find it interesting that you comment my result and my gear in the event when I have not even reported it in this thread yet. This says a lot about how defensive you get when people question the current state of this game. I can tell you that I use relative high dps gear and I have gotten pretty stable returns in this event.

Mine (or your) equipments or results are not relevant to my critique of the event structure and event loot can be considered gambling.
My point is that for most of the playerbase this high variance loot and price structure are not healthy and will either lead to quitting or addiction (play too much or deposit too much).
 
Last edited:

MeiGDLing

Guardian
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Posts
268
Where are these reports of people losing 30k peds lol? Adjusted variance high or low doesn't change the longterm outcome just the experience assuming the raw returns are the same, events have always been higher vairance for a myriad of reasons and tbh if I was using a -EV setup i'd want the most chance to spike a lucky hit as possible, not low vairance slow bleed, that would put me to sleep People playing outside of their means with unrealistic expecations are not going to be saved by reducing max multi to 1k. I think the chance at bigger multi is good for every day player and i say that as player with good gear who's cycled 15-20k a day since start of mayhem with highest loot 1.2k and no TEN item or rare token.
 

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,832
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
every player, regardless of gear and skills, will lose an infinite amount of TT over a long enough period of time.
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
2,146
One of the dilemmas is how much time you want to spend trying to find out the statistical average, plus trying to assess where other factors are likely to put you.
I'm not Mayhemming from Caly, so I only see 'local' Mayhem globals and the universal hofs. It is thus easier to live-track a couple of other players on the same planet, and the hofs stand out more overall.
I have been getting globals at around the same rate as others recently. One specific person I was watching has now received a rare and a 1k multi in the last couple of days, while I have been on about 97% off about 5 hrs a day without a rare or high multi.
Doing the 'circle of friends' comparison also shows a reasonable chance (in my estimation) of a good multi over the course of the silver track I am trotting down.
When I look back, I started off terribly, but for now my slope is acceptable, I would say. Mayhem is a bit boring over hours, but nobody is forced to take part. It's my choice - but I still ask myself: do I really want a rare to get me locked into several mayhems down the line just for tokens?

edit: to rocket: sounds like an infinite number of monkeys conjecture. Are we all monkeys? ;)
 

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,832
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
index.php


average loot of 6.8 ped. mayhem only.

appears that to reach an "acceptable" result would imply one needs to cycle at least enough ped to have 88,000+ looting events at a DPP of 3.78

if you adjust that variance for the lower DPP playerbase. let's say 3.15 then you would need at least 102,000 kills/looting events to reach some sort of standard return. from there my longterm data suggests your TT % bounces up and down like a yo-yo while your total TT deficit resembles a very smooth 45-degree downward slope. so no matter what you do you're losing tt over time at a relatively consistent rate. sharp drops are followed by sharp bounces, but ultimate you get the same thing.


TLDR all complaints about TT returns with a sample size of less than approx. 100k kills should be tossed aside/ignored. Sorry if that's harsh. I don't make the rules and MA designed this system to have this degree of variance for whatever reason and they appear to change it over time anyways so it might be null and void a year from now. Complaints by people cycling less than 100,000 ped in cat 1 should be ignored.
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
2,146
I disagree (a bit), because the shape of most curves people will get already says quite a lot before you get to the point you say.
A best-fit line will estimate the bottom return (loosely) whilst not regarding super-rare moves up (if you haven't had them yet). It looks like you got 8k peds plus somewhere in about 20k turnover between data points at around the 450k mark there.
If you know how high multis on a mob go (currently), then that helps too. Look at what you have had so far and try to tell if you've been on the lucky or unlucky side of your own projection.
These mayhem mobs also have very high multis, so that strengthens the occassional ups you can expect. If you get one, expect a higher downside after, if you don't, expect your base to be better than it currently looks.

Your own starter of 15k? mobs here (to 100k turnover) is obviously quite wild, whilst rather lucky (2x 2.5k peds (or 3.5+1.5k) in the mix?), but what is your resolution of points - really only 7 points between 1 and 100k turnover? If you zoomed in, you may see the trend better even while it is a stream on the mountainside, long before the sea ;)!
In this scenario, you are lucky enough to start high - I started low and have been clawing back 100% returners, so a rather different curve, but still telling, even at below 100k kills.

Sorry for strong edits - made a few mistakes and 'improved' wording ;)
 
Last edited:

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,832
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Your own starter of 15k? mobs here (to 100k turnover) is obviously quite wild, whilst rather lucky (2x 2.5k peds (or 3.5+1.5k) in the mix?), but what is your resolution of points - really only 7 points between 1 and 100k turnover? If you zoomed in, you may see the trend better even while it is a stream on the mountainside, long before the sea ;)!
In this scenario, you are lucky enough to start high - I started low and have been clawing back 100% returners, so a rather different curve, but still telling, even at below 100k kills.
each data point is one day of hunting. that's all. looks a lot more clear with 300+ days of data but i'm not going to give out that information and piss off this forum even more because others aren't getting the same results.
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
2,146
That's quite ok. I fully understand :). My question was about data resolution because there is also useful info in the 'zoomed' data too. If people have higher resolution then they can use it in more ways. I also find it fun to 'move the days around' - but that's not in EU... other stuff. You can approximate Monte Carlo simulations using real data that way too (and get the same finishing point) ;).
 

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,832
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
That's quite ok. I fully understand :). My question was about data resolution because there is also useful info in the 'zoomed' data too. If people have higher resolution then they can use it in more ways. I also find it fun to 'move the days around' - but that's not in EU... other stuff. You can approximate Monte Carlo simulations using real data that way too (and get the same finishing point) ;).
monte carlo simulations are useless in EU because the devs move the goalpost every 12-14 months and it's adaptive to player skills and gear at the time. arguably any "past data" has limited us.

you either trust the system and grow a pair or you lose and turn into a forum warrior like most of this thread is.
 

Sulje

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
838
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
When it comes to tt returns, no lucky hofs, no 97%. You are most likely to end up in between 80-92%, looter skills doesn't matter, not rings or weapon.

It's just that some avatars are more lucky then others, like someone looted 0 rare tokens, someone looted 4, someone even 7 :)

This is why if it's bad, stop shooting mayhem and do something else
 

Deemer

Old Alpha
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
952
So everyone wins this Mayhem after valuate the tokens and boxes at unrealistic prices... I just ask who is losing then? no one right? :D

Yes, that's right, because it's Merry Mayhem. That's why everyone is a winner. It is also very likely that the boxes will fall to 1 ped from too weak losses. :woot:

Many amazing things..

I completely agree with you. I am even considering a new proposal to improve the overall statistics and your personal data. And it is, everyone who does not have a bank of 100k not to be ignored but banned, so as not to spoil these general statistics. And in my opinion, this is the winning model for the development of this company, because what can MA gain from someone who spins 50 ped a day... even if they take all his loss, it will not be enough for the electricity they pay, let alone for employees' salaries... so no ignores, outright ban.
I'm so excited that we think like one person... it's just amazing.

By the way, I really like the new Mayhem Azuro, I want to own it, so that my hunting in the next Mayhem will be useful. Which category do you recommend, Is Redbullit and Cat 10 ok? According to the experience you have at the top of the picture, what would be its price in Ped?
 

~ Cirrus ~

Prowler
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Posts
1,195
Despite the fact that everybody stays polite (more or less), there is something more and more unhealthy coming out of this forum.

I feel uncomfortable reading the messages of the very few "active" people here for some time.
These messages which, are tirelessly repeated 10 times a day whith differents words.

My message to the "plebs" : Don't let yourself be fooled.

:poop:
 

MeiGDLing

Guardian
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Posts
268
So everyone wins this Mayhem after valuate the tokens and boxes at unrealistic prices... I just ask who is losing then? no one right? :D
Most people don't actually end up getting the value that others do on items (while you can value mtokes at 1p most will never get that) and in this scenario of mayhem tokens the ones buying them are technically losing/subsidising, Is it economically sustainable longterm to use mayhem guns to grind tokens to sell someone a mayhem gun so they can grind tokens to sell someone a mayhem gun so they can grind tokens to sell someone a mayhem gun so they can grind tokens to sell someone a mayhem gun in the most crowded profession ingame? Well it's a different question but with the positive steps MA have taken and the increased population/demand it certainly can sustain for sometime before they need to change it up as is always the case here the earlier you are to the party the more cake you get.

The markup in mayehm box/token chance at rare/ul mayhem etc is much better than average mob but if you bank your tokens and open/hold your boxes for later it will feel like the opposite and you will have a giant hole where your peds once stood so you need to have a long term plan/vision and be prepared in advance if you plan to grind mayhems like a madman.
 

Sulje

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
838
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
Yes, that's right, because it's Merry Mayhem. That's why everyone is a winner. It is also very likely that the boxes will fall to 1 ped from too weak losses. :woot:



I completely agree with you. I am even considering a new proposal to improve the overall statistics and your personal data. And it is, everyone who does not have a bank of 100k not to be ignored but banned, so as not to spoil these general statistics. And in my opinion, this is the winning model for the development of this company, because what can MA gain from someone who spins 50 ped a day... even if they take all his loss, it will not be enough for the electricity they pay, let alone for employees' salaries... so no ignores, outright ban.
I'm so excited that we think like one person... it's just amazing.

By the way, I really like the new Mayhem Azuro, I want to own it, so that my hunting in the next Mayhem will be useful. Which category do you recommend, Is Redbullit and Cat 10 ok? According to the experience you have at the top of the picture, what would be its price in Ped?
I agree, and I would like to add if it's possible, let's all find someone close to us that has less then $50.000 bankroll, and beat him with stick until they stop being poor fucks.
 

RickEngland

Elite
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Posts
4,394
Location
Essex England UK
Society
Jurai Blood
Avatar Name
Rickard Rick England
One of the best gems of this forum was when Rick got very dissapointed because MA didn't give him in a hof the MU he payed for his FEN thorifoid mace. He was like 'this is how it usually works but not for me, FEN items are overrated'.
Actually I was more disappointed that the costs were alot higher running FEN clubs than non-fen weapons. I was more surprised MA didn't throw me a hof considering I capped the possible deposit limit. I couldn't hunt anymore because the tt loss was too high too fast, yet I was unable to deposit. Without giving my passport details to lift the cap ( I didn't want to iift the cap). So was i left in a difficult position.

How the loot used to work is a side issue. Knowledge of players paying big money for weapons or tiers and getting compensated certainly impacted my thoughts on that (from past years). But hey-ho if the game doesn't help fine. I learned a lesson.

I saved a small fortune last couple of years, after accepting FEN wasn't going to meet my expectations (or even come close). So what's the point chasing after 15 odd years mid level.

That doesn't mean I hate the game, just means I pop in now and then, instead of everyday. I sold the damn FEN club, got my peds back around even. So all good. Made all my losses back on the stock market anyway due to covid. So life is swings and roundabouts. I'm happy.

Good luck with you 340k gun sale. I think it's nuts, but if people want to pay it. Their choice I guess.

Rick.
 

RickEngland

Elite
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Posts
4,394
Location
Essex England UK
Society
Jurai Blood
Avatar Name
Rickard Rick England
y5ng7Zo.png


What 350k cycle looks like if you can't hit any decent loots with pretty decent skill and okay'ish looter level... current tt % is 96.1% with ~78 looter level and 88-90% eff.

Also don't think my experience is uncommon so far in this mayhem...

The hofs are needed to bring the TT return % in line with EV, but not everyone gets them :D. And sure cycling more should do it but not fun to be at 96% for extended amounts of time (~2 million cycle).

That is interesting, thank you for the public spreadsheet. So it cost you 14k peds $1400 for your Christmas entertainment.

So to get that result, I'm assuming you bought a reaper blade and mayhem amp (pretty high end items). What did all that gear cost you, to give you the confidence to achieve that outcome?

Did you go into the event already 14k up, or was that on the back on a constant 96% return already?

Just keen to get a flavour how the system thinks these days.

Thanks rick
 

Jhereg

Stalker
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Posts
1,969
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Feng Huan SecretAznMan Zho
That is interesting, thank you for the public spreadsheet. So it cost you 14k peds $1400 for your Christmas entertainment.

So to get that result, I'm assuming you bought a reaper blade and mayhem amp (pretty high end items). What did all that gear cost you, to give you the confidence to achieve that outcome?

Did you go into the event already 14k up, or was that on the back on a constant 96% return already?

Just keen to get a flavour how the system thinks these days.

Thanks rick
Got a 3.6k hof so I'm at 97% TT for mayhem now thank god :D. (400k cycled)

Expectation is I should hit ~98% TT long term. (I was at 97% with somewhat lower efficiency gear and lower looter skill).

Of course, none of this counts MU. At a conservative 5% MU as an estimate, am doing okay at the moment. (About 5k boxes looted so far+tokens+shrap conversion+miscellaneous bits). Also did not count mission reward in either.
 
Last edited:
Top