Question: How often do you have a good tt + return hunt?

[jetsina]

The below are technically not runs but repairs so figure about 5-6 repairs a run usually as that's the most i have time for but still 3K ped on 20-30 pec kill cost mobs.

A quick look at the table and your info on it suggests you killed about 12250 mobs during this time, with repairs and an entry every 16.5 peds or so.
THIS is the data folks! - not simply one data point.
What a large number of small samples allows you to do is see the variation, but not track every single mob. Here it looks like about 66 mobs before each repair episode. The data thus catches not only these mini-runs with probably no multis at all, not even 3-5x, but also partly the spread that also occurs within no-multis, which years ago I tested and lay between 20%tt and 120%tt based on mob health. This was thus a long time ago, because it was before 2.0, but still bears relevance for some of my observations today.
To get below 50% return you thus need mobs that are not even average at the basic level (non-multi). Here it happened 2% of the time on, as calculated, about 66 mobs each.
Of course that looks extremely poor, and it is. But it still happens some of the time. The curve then begins to climb, and here we have about 25% of mini-runs at below 70% return. It's what has been said time and time again about just hunting 50-100 mobs, then complaining on the forum that the returns are terrible right now. Well, not necessarily; it is still a sizeable chunk of results that can absolutely be expected to be poor within bigger data.

Stats noobs should take note of this ^^. It is easy to see here, I believe!

At the higher end, we see the same thing on the best runs. There was obviously one very nice multi in each of them, or a couple of pretty decent ones. It's 66 kills - it can happen. Note that one more in the best category would increase the total data returns by possibly approx. 2%, and not getting the second one in this dataset would reduce the result by about 2%. This is a reason why killing 12k mobs still only gives you a spread of easily +-2% by changing only 2 mobs: one that wasn't great but could have been, and one that was great but wasn't in another almost identical run (which never happens ofc).

NOW repeat this a few times if it is semi-convenient, such as repairing a blade, and you'll have a splendid data set to teach yourself and others about spreads.

Controversial kick in the !"§§)(/&%$ to close on. I've been mining the new space 'roids with rather mixed results...... so far (low dataset!!!).
My runs of approx. 100 peds have either been shockingly poor at <50 a couple of times already, not just in a dataset of 186 runs, and a couple where a decent multi put me over the 100% mark (just). Yes, a couple of runs were in the normal territory, but not what I'd expect to continue; I'd expect more.

Disclaimer: my tt 'weap' wasn't maxed for most of the time, and my 'looter' on space mining is poor too. Both mean I'd expect slightly poorer results to begin with, but not as low as I've seen.
Secondly, I'm not sure how the damage reduction mechanics are working. If there are higher losses feeding the bonus loots we know from normal mobs, then more mobs will look like multis once my skills are up. The distribution curve will then be flatter than in this dataset, but maybe similar totals...

edit: seems to tie-in with the spread, that some people are saying returns have been good, with others saying pretty bad.
For this thread question, more of the hunting runs might thus look good, but the 'damaging runs' may well put people off more!

 

[RickEngland]

Prior to CLD and the mob regen update, you needed to input about 500 - 600 ped ammo to trigger balancing globals. The guns were alot smaller, so lets say 2 hours hunting. There was a noticeable difference when that range shifted to 800 ped, after the mob regen update. Maybe a year on from that even 1000 ped ammo hunts weren't enough to trigger the balancing globals, required in a constant skilling game.

That said migration could be good, and Atrox Queens + other MA events like huge shared robots used to drop massive hofs. It was rare not to bounce back, during those types of events. Even the sand king was a life saver for bouncing back if a mid level hunter, as many big guns were shooting. I assume they were triggering the hofs, so it kind of carried the smaller budgets.

The other issue was the dollar exchange rate. Back in 2007 I could get 2 usd per £1 gbp. As of today the exchange rate is about £1.23 to the usd, no where near 2. Been around that for about 10 years. Add that to bigger input peds required, and it became noticeably more frustrating (polite way of putting it).

I've only done the occasional hunt in the last 2 years. I log in to chat and do a little trading these days. To be honest I'm kinda waiting for the stars to align (so to speak), maybe retirement (getting close), to have a good blast again.

Looking back though hunting argos at old twin, and drones that dropped gazz was good fun in my early EU days, it was going much bigger that put pressure on budgets. Maybe dropping back for entrainment value is the way to go. Hunting prots with my last 600 ped hoping for hof, was maybe an often bad choice.... haha.

One thing is for sure, the difference between being addicted to EU and no longer being addicted, really focuses the mind to make more sensible choices. I actually enjoy "I can take it or leave it" approach to the game. I feel in control. Which alot of the time is the real issue, when it's not going so well.

I still have affection for EU though. All the best out there. Try hunting for fun, rather than glory.

 

[monte]

Prior to CLD and the mob regen update, you needed to input about 500 - 600 ped ammo to trigger balancing globals.

One thing is for sure, the difference between being addicted to EU and no longer being addicted, really focuses the mind to make more sensible choices. I actually enjoy "I can take it or leave it" approach to the game. I feel in control. Which alot of the time is the real issue, when it's not going so well.

Yeah two good points to highlight. The system doesn't come even close to triggering the kickback globals that it should. It's currently designed for addiction.... I must stick around or I won't get that hof. From my experience cycling 5 digit amounts most days over the last few years, this is miserable and I truly havent gotten balanced most times.

Second, I think you're completely right. There's a grinder mentality many enter (including myself) but have trouble pausing or even taking the time to reconsider. Many times that I've gone on vacation and then come back to play I'm just like.... wow this feels terrible why do I keep playing. It's like post nut clarity

 

[RickEngland]

Yeah two good points to highlight. The system doesn't come even close to triggering the kickback globals that it should. It's currently designed for addiction.... I must stick around or I won't get that hof. From my experience cycling 5 digit amounts most days over the last few years, this is miserable and I truly havent gotten balanced most times.

Second, I think you're completely right. There's a grinder mentality many enter (including myself) but have trouble pausing or even taking the time to reconsider. Many times that I've gone on vacation and then come back to play I'm just like.... wow this feels terrible why do I keep playing. It's like post nut clarity

I did get the feeling at times, that the more i deposited, the more i was set to pay more. Or i was allocated to someone from MA (like a sales rep), they were getting a bonus if i hit certain deposits....haha. it's all tin foil hat stuff though. The key is to stick to a budget "you're" comfortable with and try and train the system: "it's this amount or nothing".... I'm sure I tried that though, and someone at MA was thinking yeah yeah yeah, if you say so Rick. Haha.

Seriously I learned to stop fighting. Or as the old adage goes; "only focus your efforts, on what you can control" You can control your expenditure. When people moan in the forum, they're really saying "I'm desperate, help me". It's when you stop screaming for help, that you know you're in control.

For example I was never a fan of boxes, as it felt like 2 deposits, or a further forced deposit ( i think i bought 50 usd worth twice, then thought nahh this is not for me) But when I hear of players opening tens of thousands of them per month.... how is a little voice going to compete with that. That's the issue right, the high rollers set the bar, even if you're paying what you consider a lot of money.

When writing, i try to be open and fair with the game. I do own quite a number of deeds. It's not a house, but it's a decent new car, which I top up each month or so. I don't really want the game to go pop. So I try to find a balance. More.... find a solution that works for you at your budget, because the MA gods are saying, these are our rules. You anit changing anything.

Most importantly smile back at the devil, it feels better. Big smile

 

[jetsina]

Adding to #61, my latest loot runs in space have been more in the middle of the expected bell curve.

For the thread as a whole, I'd like to mention statistics surrounding the game of roulette. Amongst various betting strategies, with one of them it is possible to get a plus of one chip by betting one chip on the even chances on the first bet and doubling after any loss. In theory you can take this to the table maximum, but at some point you will have lost all the bets in the 'run' and not be able to double any further. That is then a loss that wipes out all of your 99% or whatever "winning runs".
Thus, how often you are in plus as a ratio is fairly meaningless, because the loss cancels all the winnings. The house rake is achieved by having one or two 0s on the wheel.

In this thread, people answering profit more than 1 in 5 hunts could still be losing via the spreads they get. As such, this is more about the psychology perhaps...

 

[rvbarton]

here is a pic of my returns since the beginning of Summer Migration 2024

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

here is a pic of my returns since the beginning of Summer Migration 2024

Why is your DPP so low? It looks like your set up has been c120, beta amp,mayhem sight and 2 dmg enh.

Your dpp should be over 3dpp especially include ring/equipment buffs.

With that alone I'm going to say you've not been tracking properly as seen by your at 75.5% tt return. Also comes out to 13923 kills assuming all mobs have about the same HP.

Does this also take into account Armor repairs and Fap repairs?

Do you use an arson chip? As they do not work on ANY trackers. Closest one I've tested being that it blocks the tt of the next 10 uses of a weapon, but that only works if the values are similarish. And is still anywhere from 2-10% off at the bare minimum.

 

[rvbarton]

This does not include repairs. the weapons change. was using a longsword (the level 80 yellow one with amps during migration before I got a c80. Used c80 with alpha amp for a while, then upgraded to c-120. this is why the dpp varies. I do not use an arson chip.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

This does not include repairs. the weapons change. was using a longsword (the level 80 yellow one with amps during migration before I got a c80. Used c80 with alpha amp for a while, then upgraded to c-120. this is why the dpp varies. I do not use an arson chip.

Your dpp should still not be that low. Even if you only used the yellow sword with amps. So I’ll still say you did not track correctly.

 

[rvbarton]

I used loot tally the entire time, changing weapons as I hunted different mobs. There were a few times I would forget to change the weapon, but that wasn't very often. I was surprised as well that the dpp is where it is, but these are the results. also, i deposited around $6000 during this time as well, around $5k in case the rest for keys for boxes.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

I used loot tally the entire time, changing weapons as I hunted different mobs. There were a few times I would forget to change the weapon, but that wasn't very often. I was surprised as well that the dpp is where it is, but these are the results. also, i deposited around $6000 during this time as well, around $5k in case the rest for keys for boxes.

Yeah Loot tally messes up quite a bit, I've heard other complaints from it. Not saying it's bad, but it likes to fuck up during longer hunts.

I'd honestly say your tt return is probably 10% higher then that bare minimum.

I assume you use equipment buffs like rings as well.

Mathematically it does not add up, especially when looking at the dpp.

My apologies that your tracking was incorrect =/

 

[rvbarton]

I realize it's not 100% accurate, and yes, I wear rings (+5 crit, +15 reload, +40 crit dmg). still very disheartening. I don't play much any longer after seeing this.

 

[UnaAlconbury]

I realize it's not 100% accurate, and yes, I wear rings (+5 crit, +15 reload, +40 crit dmg). still very disheartening. I don't play much any longer after seeing this.

Really unfortunate that a poorly designed loot tracker showing false returns can lead to someone basically quitting game... I would hunt for a while and track it very carefully and manually instead, see how that looks. Possibly you have been right around expected for your looter level and efficiency this entire time, but Loot Tally has shown up to 20% off? Not unlikely that is the case imo, 14k kills is not huge, but it's almost impossible to be parked at 76% tt returns after that many loot events.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

I realize it's not 100% accurate, and yes, I wear rings (+5 crit, +15 reload, +40 crit dmg). still very disheartening. I don't play much any longer after seeing this.

Id say is not even worth posting due to how inaccurate it is. You’d be even when using the sword over 3.2dpp

I honestly would calculate your tt return being over 90% with how incorrect your dpp is.

And posting it in multiple places while not accurately tracking is just dishonest and could turn new players away.


Now is there a world where you did a lot of sand king waves, getting bad returns and then did a lot of punies and that was when you had better returns, sure. But I don’t think that’s the case.

Looking through my tracker, tracked correctly, I NEVER had an instance of over 10k kills with that low of return.

I checked when I used loot 2.0 weapons and loot 1.0 and my looter to this day is not even 60.

 

[monte]

Id say is not even worth posting due to how inaccurate it is. You’d be even when using the sword over 3.2dpp

I honestly would calculate your tt return being over 90% with how incorrect your dpp is.

And posting it in multiple places while not accurately tracking is just dishonest and could turn new players away.

Yeah this is true that data set is trash. Gotten off topic here completely fellas. Thread was more about how it *feels* to go out hunting on purpose to cut the number talk. It takes hunters that responded here on avg 10-20+ runs of hunting to find 1 positive..

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

Yeah this is true that data set is trash. Gotten off topic here completely fellas. Thread was more about how it *feels* to go out hunting on purpose to cut the number talk. It takes hunters that responded here on avg 10-20+ runs of hunting to find 1 positive..

It feels just like the rest of the game. Shallow and uninteresting. Between mob design, loot design, how combat works, constantly having mobs go unreachable.
Even globalling or Hofing doesn’t even look good! You get a dinky ass swirl that looks like it was made in 5 minutes in Microsoft paint. The original Microsoft paint pre 2000s.

Give me fireworks, flashing lights, sounds and cowbells. Make it feel exciting.

It feels very very fun.

 

[Danutu07]

Well, if you wanna count a hunt/day, then days with TT profit are common, but so are the ones when you end on - , its been like this forever, after a lose streak, you always hit something big enough to end a day on +. If you cant end any single day on + or its that rare, i think you just dont track things right.

 

[monte]

Well, if you wanna count a hunt/day, then days with TT profit are common, but so are the ones when you end on - , its been like this forever, after a lose streak, you always hit something big enough to end a day on +. If you cant end any single day on + or its that rare, i think you just dont track things right.

Sorry I know you hunt a lot but tt profit days are not common. After a lose streak you always hit something big? ...No
If someone can't end any single day on + or that its rare we don't track right?

You're either trolling or playing a different game

 

[Danutu07]

Sorry I know you hunt a lot but tt profit days are not common. After a lose streak you always hit something big? ...No
If someone can't end any single day on + or that its rare we don't track right?

You're either trolling or playing a different game

I am not trolling, but if you count ur hunt daily, there is not a chance to not hit often some days on +, no matter efficiency, there are surely many. I dont know how you calculate, what you consider an input, you re free to do it the way you want but if its done right, there are many days like this.

 

[monte]

I am not trolling, but if you count ur hunt daily, there is not a chance to not hit often some days on +, no matter efficiency, there are surely many. I dont know how you calculate, what you consider an input, you re free to do it the way you want but if its done right, there are many days like this.

Thanks for your input, but it's clearly not the trend if you peek at results. There's not "many" days like this

 

[Danutu07]

Thanks for your input, but it's clearly not the trend if you peek at results. There's not "many" days like this

ok then. Happy hunting!

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

ok then. Happy hunting!

Are you including MU in this? I know you do the gorgon wave A LOT or at least did it a lot.

So I'd be interested if there's a bug in the gorgon wave that's paying out more than it "should"

 

[Danutu07]

Are you including MU in this? I know you do the gorgon wave A LOT or at least did it a lot.

So I'd be interested if there's a bug in the gorgon wave that's paying out more than it "should"

There isn t any bug . I just simply stated that, swirls are common, days when you lose are common and most of time, there are coming many days when you HOF which bring you that day on + . He just said if there are "TT profit days", he said these are rare, which aint true. Im speaking straight about this, counting a hunting sesion as a day. Apart this, there isn t any exploid which give you TT profit , its all about markup to end on green/red.

 

[Arthur The Hunter]

1-2 good or amaizing days per month.

1-5 very negative days per month

Rest are in range of 80-90%

Didnt spot any variation to this. For 1.5 year or so.

Changing mobs and hunting waves or sticking to same mob entire time didnt change it either.

End result remains the same, then again i'v never expected TT wise anything to change much.

Budget management and kill cost only dictate what you are willing to burn for that dopamine rush.

MU is only king, too bad hunting MU:s suck.

I really wish MA would get back on track but atm i dont see it the worth the time or money spent. Depressing stuff i know lol

 

[zou83]

my experience of the game always confirms the same situation. returns to the game after a break of a few months, big deposit, then refilling after loss (NUMEROUS GLOBS OR BIG HOF) thereafter whatever I do behind it is free fall, mediocre returns until zero. I think a lot of people must recognize this in my journey....then the story repeats itself endlessly...after a few tens of thousands of euros lost I begin to understand

 

[jetsina]

My posts above have been about the spreads of loot event values.
I've been on asteroids. The latest runs I've had have been REALLY poor - not only mostly void of any multis, which means an automatic loss unless a multi you do get is nice. Additionally, the loots have not even averaged 60% of cost for the non-multis.
Time and time again, I've been getting just 30-50% or so of the kill cost. So not only have I not been profitting, the admittedly small runs have been repeatedly in the region of pathetic.
I think MA have turned the screws actually, after an initial period of ok loots. Whether it's automatic on some kind of sine wave, manually adjusted, or just my own statistically possible but unlikely path, I'm going for the effect being wider spread than just for me.

 

[monte]

My posts above have been about the spreads of loot event values.
I've been on asteroids. The latest runs I've had have been REALLY poor - not only mostly void of any multis, which means an automatic loss unless a multi you do get is nice. Additionally, the loots have not even averaged 60% of cost for the non-multis.
Time and time again, I've been getting just 30-50% or so of the kill cost. So not only have I not been profitting, the admittedly small runs have been repeatedly in the region of pathetic.
I think MA have turned the screws actually, after an initial period of ok loots. Whether it's automatic on some kind of sine wave, manually adjusted, or just my own statistically possible but unlikely path, I'm going for the effect being wider spread than just for me.

I know it's very tinfoil hat but I agree- I think they've been in suck mode more than usual. Probably for shareholders or to keep the lights on. I haven't gone out hunting and had a positive experience in a very long time at this point.

 

[Dayzed]

I am of the opinion that people severely underestimate the # of mobs killed /bank roll needed to get out the return avg.
Punies i wouldnt drop less than 200ped to consider it a proper run, and that number may change as i continue my personal logs..

My last run would have put me slightly positive with mark up if they didnt kill the bone sample quest, Now theres no demand that i can find for the 200 bones i recieved in that loot, so thats a useless stack of items with no value of any kind. Which left me just short of breaking even.maybe 3-4 peds shy .

I would have loved to have taken that 3-4ped (.30-.40USD) excess and tucked it away in my storage and saved up and after a few months, properly run a higher mob and create more TT decay so i can put more materials into the economy.

Thats not how things are functioning right now so when i do get a good hunt because i hunt efficiently and at my lvl the markup items i get dont have any value so i prolly wont ever try and risk larger deposits for larger losses.

Punies kill the same as everything else it just costs less.

 

[Alina]

Never Oke when i get big hofs but i dont do short hunts 50-100k+ peds ammo per run so i dont get + often. Mainly my returns are like 91-99% due to high cost runs. All my mayhems are atm 97-99%.