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How on earth is MA / FPC running release Projects... ???

Sometimes, I think it be better to have no access to the game for a day or so, just to let MA fix the Release bugs.
If they wanna use the players to test their bugs on they should expect people to complain.
I don't play the waste time/find bugs game unless I get rewarded.

And I do think its a QA issue of inadequate testing capacity.
Not QA as in people who test graphics, but the System Architecture QA.

This is definitely beyond FPC, Hanne or anyone else who runs around the visual test environment.
So, Hanne you really have nothing to defend against, its up to Marco to sit on MindArk's face and demand some responsibility, if he's cut for the job.


Why not encourage bug submission and all this stuff by giving some type of points to the participants? Stamina points?
Make it interesting and people will help. You are not defense attorneys, make a game out of it, you are a game company, aren't you?



Some
 
archman said:
Am I the only one that had the update go smoothly?

I didn't download the update for 12 hours after it was available.
I give them credit for fixing many of the problems so fast, and I hope others problems get fixed soon.
Click to expand...


No you`re not the only one... I had a smooth update on my main pc maybe 2-3 hours after it was available... on the 2nd pc went smooth as well today.

One more thing that I`d like to say here... We are participants and not customers in MA eyes. How about in FPC`s eyes? I`d like to hear what is the actual difference between the two... coz we (the players) like to say we are customers... but in my whole career I`ve never seen someone from MA/FPC use the word customer.

I know Its a bit offtopic what I ask... but It goes well with the "upset" community atm.;)


Cheers,
Robo:smoke:
 
Einstein said:
Yep yep, this is incredibly bad!!

Imagine how many new players we lost, only because they could not install the game!

Jeeeeezz, this is really not good...
Click to expand...

Maybe fresh installs did work. So they freed up servers for noobs.
 
Robotek said:
No you`re not the only one... I had a smooth update on my main pc maybe 2-3 hours after it was available... on the 2nd pc went smooth as well today.

One more thing that I`d like to say here... We are participants and not customers in MA eyes. How about in FPC`s eyes? I`d like to hear what is the actual difference between the two... coz we (the players) like to say we are customers... but in my whole career I`ve never seen someone from MA/FPC use the word customer.

I know Its a bit offtopic what I ask... but It goes well with the "upset" community atm.;)


Cheers,
Robo:smoke:
Click to expand...

from wiki... "A customer (also known as a client, buyer, or purchaser) is usually used to refer to a current or potential buyer or user of the products of an individual or organization, called the supplier, seller, or vendor. This is typically through purchasing or renting goods or services. However, in certain contexts, the term customer also includes by extension any entity that uses or experiences the services of another. A customer may also be a viewer of the product or service that is being sold despite deciding not to buy them. The general distinction between a customer and a client is that a customer purchases products whereas a client purchases services"

So, i'm a client, not a customer, unless you say the virtual stuff i buy is to be considered a product.

Now a participant... from free dictionary...
"n.
One that participates, shares, or takes part in something.
adj.
Sharing in or taking part; participating."

My problem with this is it makes one think a participant then does so freely without paying, but you can participate in an event/competition where you have to pay to participate.
 
Terminator said:
IMO they are glued with some old system, maybe the guy who developed any critical portion (like loot engine) was fired or suicided and they cant switch to a more pro system. I bet the dev guys suffer more than us.
Click to expand...

Lol, I came to same conclusion long ago.. :)
 
JJO said:
I won't say she has to keep quiet, just the usual "it is NOT FPC's fault" comment is starting to sound a bit monotonous, like an old joke. Generally I find her replies to be either little cute/funny shoutouts to her fans on the forum (yay i'm so popular), or some apologist generic explanation telling us why FPC's not to blame......... for almost anything........... almost all of the time with no technical understanding or intelligent reasoning behind the posts, just slap dash, I/WE DONT KNOW, but just don't blame FPC, they are your friends.

Do people study to do this in sweden, is this a career path people aspire to? I'm just asking cause this seems just too easy a job to think of the person behind the replies as a trained professional? I just can't believe people in sweden get payed MONEY to post a few generic replies for us everytime we legitemately want answers, hell i could script an autobot in 20 minutes (whilst inebriated), which would do it for free and add some variation to keep it fresh......... OUCH (yes i have poison glands too MA / FPC and Community Advisor Hanne and I score high on counter-insults, so don't insult my intelligence with your watered down BS replies).

Where are the people that KNOW something or who can post something concrete, why are they so fucking hard to find?

Now tell us again......... who's FAULT is it NOT?!
Click to expand...

While i appreciate your previous perspective on IT...

you're being an ASSHOLE!

Hanne was obviously hired to speak mostly as a gamer to other gamer... WTF is she supposed to do, start trashing her bosses? Criticize the approach, but show a little compassion for someone acting in good faith to do their job.
_____

I am disappointed as well with all the tech issues... Rocktropia blew up a graphics card of mine in the first week probably because the terrain was more complicated than that of calypso.

As a planet calypso customer, I am upset that i pay each month to access a unique service, and the game offers us little recourse when expected services aren't delivered. Not only updates, but all the Ped i lose when steelbirds get stuck in trees or the ME i lost today when I ended up underground every time I TP...

all the stuff you can't really itemize but wish you had back when your scrounging for your next hunt.
________

Hanne, I know you can't affirm this, but all the stuff MA has done to tweak the game for planet partners have been of ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT to long time planet calypso users. I hope you see how embarassing, if not downright offensive, Rocktropia is to most of us, to the point where the community would probably be more patient if it didn't exist.

Meanwhile, we're left with bad financial reports to read because of all the investment in infrastructure, and to wonder if all our investments of money but mostly of energy in our hobby will be for not when MA"s greed causes a potentially profitable business to go down the shitter.

Most of us realize that your job is to spin things a little...

The stuff that worries us is the stuff you can't spin...
 
It started short and grew...sorry

Well, it took a while to read through all the posts, but this latest update has definitely been, as perviously stated, "less than optimal". I see alot of computer industry professionals getting involved in the discussion and it seems clear that MA need to involve these people as a test group.
I don't see why they can't directly contact 50-100 computer industry professionals who play the game to do the test for 60mins and feedback the bugs. Then if it there are too many issues, delay the release and re-test again. I am sure there are plenty of skilled players who would be happy to ?Beta test?...as it were, the updates and give constructive feedback to the coders at MA.
This would be the ultimate QA because the Beta testers all have different systems and ISPs etc, so a whole range of environments would be tested with the test-updates.

I am simply an end-user who doesnt know a thing about code and just enjoy the end results. The game as a whole must be a very complex system to run and I can imagine one change effecting another thing. I think however we as end-users would appreciate more feedback and interaction from MA itself and between the MA coders and the computer savvy players who understand the errors that are occurring.

We are participants when we turn up, play and leave. We are clients/customers the moment money is involved and a service is provided. I also do worry how they run their public relations unit, most businesses want customers to try, buy and stay. I am sure they have lost alot of potential customers in the last few days from this release. The rest of us are addicted, so we keep coming back and because some players have large amounts of cash in game!

Hanne, you have a hard job as the Community Manager and on the front line you are the communities first point of contact when something goes wrong. This is a big community and you have a big responsibility. As a doctor I deal with angry, upset, confused people on a daily basis. It is my job to listen to their concerns, their fears, work out how things can be improved, help them understand their disease, explain why things go wrong and work out solutions with a plan to be put in place. It is a very rewarding social side to medicine. When patients don't understand what is happening and there have been break downs in communication the patients get very angry and upset. All we as customers of MA/FPC want is clear feedback with our game and MA isn't doing that. Something goes wrong every time and we just get silence and sorry for the delay. I have seen Marco pop into the forum a few times, so my guess is he has read this thread. A statement from him on the QA and what has been happening would be greatly appreciated.

Anyway, I hope the computer professionals who play the game can organise some form of Beta testing with MA prior to each update as the greater community would really appreciate it. Hanne, just remember the community is just upset with the way the releases are being delivered and the more information you can find out they calmer they will be. You are the face of FPC and even MA in our eyes and we look to you for answers when things go wrong. We are your patients, help us understand.

Cheers
Bjorn
 
wow

people sure do have some strong oppinions...

it is upsetting that a big company like MA does not like to have contact with there end user customers, they need to sort out there problems before it is too late for them. It is sad if that happens but they cant surely carry on bringing updates out that fail constantly....

please MA sort things out and improve for us your customers who are spending REAL MONEY....

RJ Rob
 
Few Scars said:
...I don't see why they can't directly contact 50-100 computer industry professionals who play the game to do the test for 60mins and feedback the bugs. Then if it there are too many issues, delay the release and re-test again. I am sure there are plenty of skilled players who would be happy to ?Beta test?...as it were, the updates and give constructive feedback to the coders at MA.
This would be the ultimate QA because the Beta testers all have different systems and ISPs etc, so a whole range of environments would be tested with the test-updates. ..
Click to expand...
One of the best ideas ever! I for one, happen to work with software QA... and I am willing to give a hand if needed.

Also, what I consider a big minus for MA (or whomever is in fact in charge) is the lack of communication. We have protocols in place such as if the patch/upgrade doesn't work as intended, we must notify the users every 30 minutes and explain what the reasons are.
 
so many smart and educated people posted in here and play this game, not sure whats worse the fact that MA doesnt tap into that well of knowledge or the fact each VU is the same old story :scratch2:
 
AJack10600 said:
Firstly, when we change things in code in an application there is a concept called 0 Impact Testing. This should prevent any old code from being corrupted or changed.
On top of that we have like 3 Test environments, an unlimited amount of test runs in the first 2 until you sign off.
Then another 3 Production Like Test runs in a PRD equivalent Testing environment. Then a regression run. Only when all these items work and are signed off, will an item be promoted to Production...
Click to expand...

Never seen your game. What was it called again?
 
jjmatrix said:
One of the best ideas ever! I for one, happen to work with software QA... and I am willing to give a hand if needed.

Also, what I consider a big minus for MA (or whomever is in fact in charge) is the lack of communication. We have protocols in place such as if the patch/upgrade doesn't work as intended, we must notify the users every 30 minutes and explain what the reasons are.
Click to expand...

Good idea, feel free to slave away at it, if/when MA is offers you such an "opportunity".
But, I aint going through this again for nothing. ;P



Some
 
They have amateur testers that actually pay them to do the testing. It's a winning concept!
 
MA might want to look into the profile of their customers.
In case they did not notice this game has a heavy concentration of people who work in a software development related field of expertise.

On my FL alone i have at least 15 people who work in the IT.

People like that notice screw ups and have been noticing it and complaining about it for a long time.

And lets be honest most issues we have seen are due to bad managing of the releases.
Have they any idea how much money they loose because of this. I would easily estimate the losses to be around $1M a year due to all the extra down times and people that can not play because of issues. And then we are not even talking about the losses due to people leaving due to bad customer satisfaction / value for money satisfaction.

Hiring a good release manager who has a lot of experience with mission critical applications would help a lot.

Cheers
Siam
 
Droops said:
"Error Guessing" thats one way to test ;)

I do hope they use other test techniques :silly2:

Recently seen a cv btw from a former employee with more then enough qualifications so one should expect they have "some" knowledge how to manage these releases. :scratch2:
Click to expand...


In case some are interested -

A current MA developer.
 
Few Scars said:
I don't see why they can't directly contact 50-100 computer industry professionals who play the game to do the test for 60mins and feedback the bugs. Then if it there are too many issues, delay the release and re-test again. I am sure there are plenty of skilled players who would be happy to ?Beta test?...as it were, the updates and give constructive feedback to the coders at MA.
This would be the ultimate QA because the Beta testers all have different systems and ISPs etc, so a whole range of environments would be tested with the test-updates.
Click to expand...

While I totally sympathize with your thoughts, and I am one of those who have yet to get into the game because of the update gone wrong, it is pretty obvious why MA will not do as you suggested. Same reason as why release notes are never released till the server has gone down for maintenance - unfair advantage to anyone with advance knowledge of the next release.

Suggest instead they adopt a model similar to a certain space based mmorpg. Just have a beta server that is open to all and broadcast release notes in advance of changes. That way, we will have to live with rampant market speculation before a change goes live but at least there will be no unfair advantage to anyone.
 
While i appreciate your previous perspective on IT...

you're being an ASSHOLE!

Hanne was obviously hired to speak mostly as a gamer to other gamer... WTF is she supposed to do, start trashing her bosses? Criticize the approach, but show a little compassion for someone acting in good faith to do their job.
Click to expand...

OH COME ON?!?!? Do you seriously think she was hired to share her opinion on the game with other gamers? We have more educated guesses here from people who are not even privy to what floats about in the antiquated vestiges of FPC/MA's offices. Community ***MANAGER***, that last word is a serious word in business where I come from. It is usually held by people with years of experience, who have gone through the processes from ground level and who are qualified to MANAGE! They have very high pressure jobs interfacing between many different groups/individuals + they need to take a lot of flack when things below them get disorderly.

I'm not saying this to you personally (no really i'm not, i just had the thought because your comment made me ponder on the idea), but maybe most people don't appreciate what professional titles like MANAGER mean because they are either A) Teenagers playing the game off Mommy's lunch money grant or B) People on welfare/disability who stopped working in the late 80's and never went up a few notches in the chain to see what these people do or even do it themselves.

I'll settle for being an asshole, if it means I'm not a pushover fool who falsely places my faith in a company which has a track record that reads like a that of an Ebola strain unleashed on an unsuspecting populace. I also don't give a damn for those bars under my name or getting chummy with an official at PA, and just for the record, I got one more of those green bars, so some people are in agreement with what I've said, I've even had PM's from people thanking me for saying what most lost the nerve to do ages ago.

I am disappointed as well with all the tech issues... Rocktropia blew up a graphics card of mine in the first week probably because the terrain was more complicated than that of calypso.
Click to expand...

A specific range of GFX drivers on Geforce cards had a bug where the fanspeed would stop at 70% from full speed, causing cards to overheat when certain taxing games were played. I had this in Metro 2033 with a geforce 285GTX and fixed it by manually altering the fan voltage and voila, no more overheating and best is my card didn't melt. Neither Rocktropia developers nor MA are responsible for this i'm afraid and you can't really prove their code did it so thats a false claim. Game engines are not specific/low level enough to cause such hardware failures purely from instructions sent to the GPU. That or you forgot to clean the dust that collects on fans and heatsinks ;)

As a planet calypso customer, I am upset that i pay each month to access a unique service, and the game offers us little recourse when expected services aren't delivered. Not only updates, but all the Ped i lose when steelbirds get stuck in trees or the ME i lost today when I ended up underground every time I TP...

all the stuff you can't really itemize but wish you had back when your scrounging for your next hunt.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, the people who want FPC officials on their FL or more +REP from people who just don't have the technical knowledge and understanding to realize they are being fed crap for breakfast and told SOZ at the end of it all, from FPC officials, use these sorts of issues raised as fuel for the WHINER water cannon. They associate every legitimate complaint about developmental issues (as are presiding at this time and are being discussed in this thread), to be no more than whiners doing what they do best, WHINE and this is SORELY not the case in this thread, with this breed of people. That is why I called distinction to this thread and the people posting in it and demanded to be treated like professionals who know whats going on and to get some answers or get some message through to the bigwigs out on the golf-course.

Since the rest of your post was not addressed to me, I'm not going to quote it or respond to it, but I will say I concur with your sentiments.
 
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Few Scars said:
I have seen Marco pop into the forum a few times, so my guess is he has read this thread. A statement from him on the QA and what has been happening would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

What happened was basically this; MA informed FPC that they intended to release a platform update (like a service pack for Windows), we were told what it was. MA can update the platform whenever they need to. During the platform update issues arose. This affected FPC and other planet partners. I have started an inquiry about this to get to the bottom of this and alos make sure these kind of things don't happen again - and make sure MA understands the fallout of releasing a platform update that has flaws.

During the downtime FPC Community Manager Hanne was busy geathering info and being present on the forum, relaying the scarce info FPC had back to the community. As a company, FPC takes full responsibility for FPC release updates of Planet Calypso. When MindArk makes mistake I assume they take responsibility and that FPC and each and every planet partners helps them in this process.
 
Marco|FPC said:
MA can update the platform whenever they need to.
Click to expand...

Marco|FPC said:
This affected FPC and other planet partners. I have started an inquiry about this to get to the bottom of this and alos make sure these kind of things don't happen again - and make sure MA understands the fallout of releasing a platform update that has flaws.
Click to expand...

One would expect that u have some sort of Service level Agreement where these kind of things are covered in detail :scratch2:
 
Marco|FPC said:
What happened was basically this; MA informed FPC that they intended to release a platform update (like a service pack for Windows), we were told what it was. MA can update the platform whenever they need to. During the platform update issues arose. This affected FPC and other planet partners. I have started an inquiry about this to get to the bottom of this and alos make sure these kind of things don't happen again - and make sure MA understands the fallout of releasing a platform update that has flaws.

During the downtime FPC Community Manager Hanne was busy geathering info and being present on the forum, relaying the scarce info FPC had back to the community. As a company, FPC takes full responsibility for FPC release updates of Planet Calypso. When MindArk makes mistake I assume they take responsibility and that FPC and each and every planet partners helps them in this process.
Click to expand...

Issue , problem and bug may not be see during testing fase , fine..
shit happen , fine...
and sometime you need to make a big change that may affect so many other function that it is impossible to test properly , fine..

still , i think MA/FPC , should rething the way they develop things , and the way they test...
i do bieleve , if they do more often update , but smaller update it will be more easy to manage all , and make the general quality way better...

One problem that we see very often is , zillion of change everywhere , that make bugs in many things...sometime , 2 or 3 new piece of code together will create a bug somewhere else ... if all those 3 piece of code was made 1 after eatch other , the bug would be spoted.
Also , smaller update , with more bug fix , will reduce the insane EU sickness " the bug is back" ...in all softweare there is bug , but EU is the only softweare i know where a bug keep coming back at every 2 update...There is in EU history , bug that came back 3 or more time...like if that bug never get fixed...

I am not so sure the problem is in competance of people , but more in methodologie and in amount of job done in 1 go...

Try to update every 2 weeks in regular basis ( beside some very special case where there is no other choise than long coding time and test) and i guess , things will be better for player...
do the update always the same day , so people know , like every monday morning...
and dont apply a patch if it is not 100% sure and tested...

also , MA should have some computeur dedicated at testing , with different hardware , where they copy a fresh instal of windows ( with ghost or what ever) , and try to download and install game... it happen very often that , after a patch , the instal system does not work at all for new player...it take very long time to spot this problem exist , and then for MA to fix it... during that 2 , 3 4 weeks , many future new player never become new player , as they try to instal game 2 or 3 time , and then conclude that EU is a big bullshit because it does not even install...
finaly , try to make the install smaller , just the basic minimal the game need ( should be like 200 meg) and then people download what they need depending on what they do...
the need to download 5Gig straitgh away to test a game , just make people run away...

I think some people at MA , should sometime wear player shoes , and see how things are for us... they may understand a bit more , why we miss so much new player in this game , and why game economie go so bad.
 
Droops said:
One would expect that u have some sort of Service level Agreement where these kind of things are covered in detail :scratch2:
Click to expand...

We have but that influence B2B relations (FPC <-> MA), and doesn't really change the frustration and irritation of the community.
 
Etopia said:
...I think some people at MA , should sometime wear player shoes , and see how things are for us... they may understand a bit more , why we miss so much new player in this game , and why game economie go so bad.
Click to expand...

We all are upset but this time I have to second Hanne and Marco. It was not their fault and maybe neither MA's. We don't know anything about what happened, hence every customer will start shouting. But this won’t help.

They do already know that there have been problems with updates and bugs.
They do already know how to do things, and
they might already know how to improve.

The only thing I would like to know is the actual status.

Are there still any problems?
How and when will they get fixed?
 
Personally, I think MA and FPC are in the same house as before in Gothenburg that they split into two companies is because of tax reasons and that always takes them a chance that if a problem occurs so they can always blame each other so that no one needs to take responsibility tends to be so in the corporate world.:dunce:
 
valentin said:
Personally, I think MA and FPC are in the same house as before in Gothenburg that they split into two companies is because of tax reasons and that always takes them a chance that if a problem occurs so they can always blame each other so that no one needs to take responsibility tends to be so in the corporate world.:dunce:
Click to expand...

The longer they keep to their point that they are 2 seperate companies, the more people will accept that and also will accept the bladiebla answers when it comes to fuck ups like this.
The more Coca Cola tells you in their commercials that Coca Cola is the best cola, the better Coca Cola tastes.
Except that Coca Cola actually is the nicest cola ;)
 
Marco|FPC said:
We have but that influence B2B relations (FPC <-> MA), and doesn't really change the frustration and irritation of the community.
Click to expand...

That's not true. You can and should enforce the penalties on MA for not meeting the agreed service level. The penalties can either go back into the loot pool or used to deliver a small benefit/gift to calm the affected customers. This will have the effect of satisfying your customers by showing them that FPC stands on the side of proper QA/releases AND hopefully teaches MA a lesson in how not to release code in future.
 
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