How space can ruin game experience

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the real problem is not the loss but the attack of hate toward the burglar that lead me to think "die bastard"
and "hope you use that money to cure the cancer u deserve"

Saying someone deserves cancer because he is playing a game, and following the rules in the game, should properly have you banned.

I hope you get what you deserve.

An extrodinary display of unsportsmanlike behaviour.
 
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MrBabul

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Saying someone deserves cancer because he is playing a game, and following the rules in the game, should properly have you banned.

I hope you get what you deserve.

An extrodinary display of unsportsmanlike behaviour.
I agree but then there i strongly believe in freedom of speech. I would just put them on ignored list and problem solved.
 

KiriMistPrinces

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Sadly it doesnt seem that MA has a real grasp on the negative effects on the game and playerbase for allowing PVP lootable to continue.

I don't have enough fingers to count active, depositing players I knew who raged over this issue and never came back.

You might say fine, we don't need them anyway, but this game is a game of a player based economy.
Without players to buy our markups, skills and gear the game is dead, Period.
Why ever even consider giving people a reason to leave when this is your design?

It's a shame that most players now won't have the opportunities I had earlier in the game, to accumulate real 7 figure wealth.
Aside from glitches or exploits, it seems like the addition of lootable pvp in space and the size of the map was intended to try and make players choose a "home planet" so to speak vs constantly jumping from planet to planet. Each planet should have it's own economy while traveling from planet to planet should be a little more difficult if you want to sell goods that are not unique to where you are selling. Right now, Calypso is still the trade hub of the universe for majority of goods.

What would the point of motherships and privateers be if they removed PVP? Honestly, the cost of warp now-a-days and the various services and schedules makes traveling quite easy and inexpensive.
 

Joat

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The best thing you can do if you get those feelings when getting shot down is to keep visting space and lootable
a LOT more, without anything lootable ofc.
In time your frustration will go away and being shot down will not bather you that much.
It is, afterall, your psyche that play games with your mind in situations like this, so experience a LOT more fights and
with the goal that it doesn't matter if you win or not, you will push that triggerpoint when you get upset.
 

Mika

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I agree but then there i strongly believe in freedom of speech. I would just put them on ignored list and problem solved.

that would not fall in under freedom of speech.

unless you want freedom of speech to include and allow as well as change to involve threats, hate speech, and a few other things.

if you strongly believe in freedom of speech, it is best to protect what it is meant to be, not missuse it for anything anyone says. And id say that, is way more important these days as i see people missusing it at every moment they get a chance.
For more accurate info the wiki has most congerated updated info avout it and while wiki itself directly is so-so all sources are listed there and easier to find;

Tldr threats have little in common or any right to be protected as free speach amongs other things people think is ok to shout at free will.
 

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Sadly it doesnt seem that MA has a real grasp on the negative effects on the game and playerbase for allowing PVP lootable to continue.

I don't have enough fingers to count active, depositing players I knew who raged over this issue and never came back.

You might say fine, we don't need them anyway, but this game is a game of a player based economy.
Without players to buy our markups, skills and gear the game is dead, Period.
Why ever even consider giving people a reason to leave when this is your design?

It's a shame that most players now won't have the opportunities I had earlier in the game, to accumulate real 7 figure wealth.
Lootable PvP is a small red area where you are not forced to go to, with many warnings in case you start approaching it by mistake. If 0.5% of the game bothers you, it is not game's problem it's your personal problem. Space is also ok, you can use safe warp, or you always have the ability to travel in group, armed and fight off the attackers, but no, it's easier to remove whole part of the game because you are not capable of playing the game.
 

Mika

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you can use safe warp

Lately when warping i've been told to log off as pirates pull ships out of warps and kill even bigger space ships in 5-10 seconds flat. How is warp safe when you get told to still log off, and be carefull, warping is not at all safe :p

So use safe warp services so you dont just get warped into hell, talk to whomever is warping if there are any pirate activity currently, and if not sure do log off and use the warp service discord to publically communicate that you're at a safe arrival or not before logging in again.

else you might as well start calling warp the "50/Y50 yeetus deletus" because god knows where you'll end up now that pirates in space have started using more than just quads and camping straight lines :D

Edit: also note that if you ever do meet pirates, you are fucked, but the least most of the time if you ask them to wait till you're across the server border to your destination they will likely delay your inevitable death long enough to not have to re-fly again. Just because they play the game a way 98% of the playerbase fucking hates doesnt mean they are assholes for it.
 

Sulje

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Lately when warping i've been told to log off as pirates pull ships out of warps and kill even bigger space ships in 5-10 seconds flat. How is warp safe when you get told to still log off, and be carefull, warping is not at all safe :p

So use safe warp services so you dont just get warped into hell, talk to whomever is warping if there are any pirate activity currently, and if not sure do log off and use the warp service discord to publically communicate that you're at a safe arrival or not before logging in again.

else you might as well start calling warp the "50/Y50 yeetus deletus" because god knows where you'll end up now that pirates in space have started using more than just quads and camping straight lines :D

Edit: also note that if you ever do meet pirates, you are fucked, but the least most of the time if you ask them to wait till you're across the server border to your destination they will likely delay your inevitable death long enough to not have to re-fly again. Just because they play the game a way 98% of the playerbase fucking hates doesnt mean they are assholes for it.
You can always fight back, or whoever charge for warp service.

There should be 300-1000 ped toxic shot for space, so the pirates has something to lose, then people might spend time to gear up and fight back in space.
 

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Pvp and non-pvp cultures just don't mix when there is any possibility of crossing each other's lines. Space has become a lot easier since the change but when it still happens, the consequences are always the same -- one is happy and the other isn't. Doesn't depend on money at all, other games with similar design choices but where no real assets are affected have the very same, never ending discussions.
 

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Space is made by developers who dont play the game or have any stakes in the game.

Rule number 1..... Dont force pvp or even looted pvp on people in a game and specially not in a game with real money involved.

I say developers should remove lootable pvp in space until the do upgrade the space and does something usefull with it.
Its just bad game design atm and makes ppl mad instead of happy playing the game.

But as usally with mindark, they dont bother or care if it does not affect their wallet or income.
 

Sulje

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Space is made by developers who dont play the game or have any stakes in the game.

Rule number 1..... Dont force pvp or even looted pvp on people in a game and specially not in a game with real money involved.

I say developers should remove lootable pvp in space until the do upgrade the space and does something usefull with it.
Its just bad game design atm and makes ppl mad instead of happy playing the game.

But as usally with mindark, they dont bother or care if it does not affect their wallet or income.
It is not forced, you don't have to go anywhere if you are afraid of being looted.
 

Sulje

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You are forced if you want to experience the whole game.
You are not forced to experience the whole game, if you want to experience another planet, pay for it, fight for it, if you don't want to, you can't change the whole game mechanics for your own personal needs.
 

Msturlese

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Maybe i could not transfer the REAL point

the story was about the insane attack of hate and rage that vamped and of which i am ashamed of

and all this in a game that is 99% perfectly ok .
that 1% of excperience ruins a nice relaxing skilling time
and i really doubt that it is only me

some other ppl will experience same things, i said let's go to farm some analysis, some other will say i lost money, made a bad day, netter i go play diablo immortal or hello kitty online.

and i am in total greement with Forgo on this... (apart the 10.000.000 Ped he made ... on that allow me to keep some reserves :) )

and yes, i am pure PVE
and yes, i dont want to taint my Karma with space so i wil move as said to ToS service for good
 

DaisyColdFinger

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What game are you all playing cause i travel solo daily and have not seen any as yet.
 

Mika

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You are not forced to experience the whole game, if you want to experience another planet, pay for it, fight for it, if you don't want to, you can't change the whole game mechanics for your own personal needs.

The majority of the game disagrees with you.

Piracy is a part of the game, i think piracy should remain in the game, i think space should be fixed, and lootable PVP zones should be possible to 100% avoid in space (but not if you fly straight). But for a normal player, the cost of doing anything worthwhile in space, is just way to high, its just not feesable. Fight back, with what? Are you gonna give me a space ship or mothership? Will you provide me with a crew to help repair it so that it is not instantly blown up?

Forced pvp in space, makes sense because it has always been like that, this is the only true part about it. That does not mean that it is a good idea, that it is fun, that it even works. it clearly "works" (you can enter it), but does it, really? When you have a big portion of the playerbase so strongly disliking something because it hinders natural exploration, deters more or less everyone to go there, intensly few good experiences seem to come out of it. Does it then really work as well as you say it does when its something everyoen largely at some point, has to deal with and when they do it either costs them a fortune to achieve some security but not guaranteed safety. (warps are currrently not 100% safe due to pirates) Or fly at their own risk?

I've also given tonnes of ideas of how MA can add instances to space, more mobs to space, more things in general to do in space, more activities such as mining or gathering stuff in space to upgrade ships, build parts, build ships, upgrade them all, and allow more people to play and do space. As well as seeing the entire game like Mango says. It would benefit us the players, it would benefit all planets, it would benefit normal players and it would benefit just about everyone involved.

But every time me, or anyone wants to change space to make it great, we only meet people who cross their arms and "nope, its bad, you're bad, idea bad, space is perfect". It is incredibly detrimental for things to develop. The handfull of space loving people don't want it to change, even if it would be better for everyone including themselves, all they see is something they can freely exploit and keep exploiting purely because how much most people hate having to deal with it. Which would be fine, if it wasnt forced upon you if you wanted to enjoy the entire game.

How would you feel if someone just responded to hunting loot being shit threads with "Loot is fine, you're not forced to hunt mate" it doesnt provide any help or proper argument to solve what is clearly a problem for a lot of people, not just one individual wanting to change the game to their own needs.
 

Aloisius

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They should just generate a popup window the moment you enter space that stays open/can be opened by action library command that shows everything that someone could loot from you in any given moment just like a lootwindow -> no more missing out on stuff in some container + meaningfull warning with content
THIS ... or show that you were looted like when you gain loots you always see. when you get looted in space (which i STRONGLY HATE) you don't even get a notification at all. I agree with paying for flights in safe ships but that ain't no gurantee either.

there is a saying something about donkeyballses and spacepirates ... can't seem to remember just now how it goes...
 

Granny Rowan

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Always amazed how people scream about space PVP, when they openly admit to not taking sensible precautions for safe passage, yet you almost never see threads like this about red PVP on planets, where the unwary can equally lose hard earned ped.

Space like red PVP is optional, OK in may ways less optional and more of a problem true, as you need to cross it to visit other planets.
But speaking as someone who was a space smuggler (moving goods in a quad from planet to planet) for years before I became a mothership owner, and fairly often since simply as a matter of convenience, I can say that with sensible precautions you can cross space safely, as others have mentioned above. Though it will never be 100% risk free , as there is always an element of luck as to where the pirates are. Yes I have been looted I believe 3 times in 10 years, and twice was pure stupidity and forgetfulness on my part. The other was my newbishness and I learned from it.

Don't carry more than you can afford to lose and like any risk consider your options carefully
Don't travel in a straight line planet to planet
Don't travel at same elevation as the Spacestation you left

Do check you don't have lootables you forgot (scroll each page to bottom to make sure nothing hidden) before leaving planet.
Do make sure you know what is or is not lootable. (Items in mined resource tab and Materials tab, or that would belong there if not in vase or box or vehicle in carried inventory) Simple rule for Pills, if its tradeable, assume it's lootable.
Do check there is no-one on your radar before changing elevation and direction so it cannot be reported to pirates
Do go down or up a minimum of 500 from start point and yes a minimum, lets not make it easy for pirates by all hanging out at same elevation, but don't forget to level out (Use Align horizontal) once at required elevation.
Do seriously consider using a paid service if the loot you carry is high value, same as you would insure high value things in RL rather than just trust to luck.

RCE games can have pirates, we can be 'robbed' difference here compared to RL or even some other games is it has no police or prosecution. So your safety is your responsibility. Fly safe
 

Msturlese

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Saying someone deserves cancer because he is playing a game, and following the rules in the game, should properly have you banned.
Read better OP ... "thinking"... i cannnot control my primal reactions..... and i reckon that it is a Bad Karma and ashamed of the loss of control....

as per the burglar, i dont hate him, really i dont care of him or his life.. 10 minutes later i was killing robots
 

Deemer

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In my opinion, those game exits to escape lootable zones to protect your loot are in the Exploit column. You can craft a finished item on the planet you're on and then sell the item to Calypso if you want. I think this should be considered by the MA for UE5.

I agree with the comment about the looted items from the web shop. I don't understand the logic why these items can be looted since they come directly from the webstore.

These jump gates maybe outline new better PVP in space. It would be much better even now if those vacant MS seats were now filled with snipers waiting for an ambush and the support staff to be on the lookout how to react on the situation.

I will take advantage of the topic, because most likely there are people who are preparing for sharper PVP in UE5.
If you're looking for a gunner, it will be much better if im in your team than against you. I can't be impressed by hierarchies or imaginary authorities, I prefer people I can play with and they know what they are doing, not a complete chaos of professionals. So don't hesitate to PM me.
 

bigdaddy trim

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Read better OP ... "thinking"... i cannnot control my primal reactions..... and i reckon that it is a Bad Karma and ashamed of the loss of control....

as per the burglar, i dont hate him, really i dont care of him or his life.. 10 minutes later i was killing robots

It sounds like this is your issue and it bothering more than you let on or you would not made a thread about it.
 

Sirhc

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I just travel with one piece of poo so if I get looted it lets them know exactly what I think of their style of play 💩

Space is just cumbersome whether travelling or hunting. I usually don't run into other people when I do travel to other planets but I take precautions. MA really missed an opportunity to make space shine when it was implemented.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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You should thank the guy who shot you in PvP.
And maybe even reward him for making you aware of your mood and anger problem.

Go to a lootable place, where you know it can happen, and then go crazy when it does.
I mean.. well, no comment.. :rolleyes:

I hope someday MA will put the 100% PvP space back to the way it was before.
And in the meantime, I congratulate the people who have enough patience to wait for hours at the edge of the servers in the hope to meet a sucker to loot, where the chance of it to happens are sooo low. (y)

And for all the people who wonder if this or that item is lootable or not.
I understand that it's extremely complicated to know..
Indeed, just look at the info window of an item, if you see written: "This item can be looted in PvP", well that means this item can be looted in PvP..
Clever, isn't it !? :geek:
On some items this sentence does not appear, and oh surprise, it means that they are NOT lootable.
Check your pills, you'll see some are lootable and some are not.
 

RickEngland

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I hear ya. To put it in my finest words "it's just f***ing irritating".

If you just want ti fly some where. Especially CP, which is akin to being harassed to pick up a loaf of bread from the local corner shop. Really!!!

But on the plus side, hunting in space in a L quad, even in pvp was one the most fun things I ever did in game over the period of about 4 months (even getting robbed at times). 🤣🤣

MA were more interested in keeping planets apart than really pushing the space hunting agenda. Missed a massive trick there I feel.

Oh well onwards and upwards.
 

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In many respects, MA has been copying a little bit on EVE Online, especially when it comes to space features. And EVE Online is primarily a PVP oriented game.

The latest proof of this is the recent addition of "Robot Incursions" in space, I guess they didn't even bother to come up with a different name for it, they just went ahead and called "Incursions" which is exactly what it's called in EVE.

So, is the fact that travelling between planets in EU is 100% PVP EVE inspired? Most likely.. But unfortunately this is not EVE, and in EU, this doesn't work and here's a few reasons why:

#1 Budgeting for the level of Safety that suits your needs:

To get between planets your choices are:
1. Sleipnir (L) (~36 ped)
2. Quad (L) (~400 ped)
3. Equus (35k?)
4. Privateer (60k-80k?)
5. Mothership (>100k?)

The first issue, as can be seen above, is the huge gap in the line-up; you can have a really crappy limited ship that is not customizable at all, or you can have the best and biggest in the form of Motherships or Privateers. Nothing in the middle. EVE online has over 300 different ships to choose from, each of which can be customized to be better in some aspect then another.

The 2nd issue is that in EU, ships don't really seem to have any pre-defined role; the main difference between them is whether they are warp capable or not, how many passengers they can carry, the size of their cargo bay (which has no bearing on how much you can carry btw, except for Equus) and whether they have any gun turrets. The rest is pretty much all the same. In EVE there are shuttles, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, dreadnoughts, carriers, supercarriers, titans, logistical support ships, transport ships, mining ships, exploration ships, bombers and stealth ops ships...

The third issue is in EU, 2 Quads side-by-side go at the exact same speed because Quads cannot be customized and there is only 1 type of thruster in the game. In EVE, you'd have a hard time to find 2 ships that perform exactly the same since there are so many modules to choose from and so many possible customizations, not to mention that everyone's skills are different and affect how the ships perform or don't perform.. The only customization that can be done to ships in EU is to increase the Structural Integrity which I think is only available for Privateers and Motherships (not sure about Equus).

So my complaint here is that I lack the options and tools necessary to be able to select and budget for the level of safety that suits my needs. My only options, really, are either a $40 non-customizable, non-upgradeable Quad (L), or an $8,000 Privateer. That really sucks. I don't need to go full Privateer but the Quad (L) is too slow for me, what about creating some $500, $2000 and $4000 options to begin with? And what about releasing an upgrade mission for Quads (L), they do last a long time if you are just using them to go between planets and it would be worth it for me to spend a little money to upgrade mine if it means I can get there faster and out-run pirates.

#2 EU lacks the tools to get properly organized and have teamwork:

In EVE Online, alliances have tax revenue from their members which they then use to finance the building of the biggest and most expensive ships. So when a big ship is lost, that financial burden is shared among all the members and not just on 1 person. In EU, Societies don't have the capability to tax their membership or organize in this way. Almost all Entrepreneurs in EU are operating solo, so if someone is transporting lootables in space, it's on him or her, the loss of that is born by him or her alone.

In EVE, you can hire someone to transport valuable goods from 1 system to another, and you can buy insurance for those valuables in case the person who accepts this contract ends up getting killed and loses your valuables. There is no such options in EU. You have to either risk it through space, or you hire a Mothership/Privateer to take you which is also not 100% risk-free, so either way, there is a risk, the only difference is the level of risk. Or you have to incur auction fees and pay the transport fee to have "brought" to the planet where you need it but this takes a level of understanding of the Auction interface that most people don't have or even know is possible (you list your lootables for 1 day on the PP auction at a price above markup, once the auction expires and as long as the stacks did not sell, those auctions will then be found in your "Won" tab. From another planet, you can access this tab, and "retrieve" the items. The auction will prompt you to select the transport option and pay the fee and voila, your loot will be transported to the planet where you are, wihout risk).

#3 The main activity or goal in EU is much different then EVE:

As I stated earlier, EVE is primarily PVP; in EVE, you play because you want to fight other players and you think you are smart enough to beat others while engaging them directly (with your space ship).

EU is a game about making money, while these 2 are not necessarily diametrically opposed, it's my opinion that since the majority of people in EU play because they like the concept and believe that they are smart enough to succeed and "make" money in EU, it is really shitty to then "force" these people to risk it in PvP if they wish to go explore other planets. Of course, no one is forced to leave the planet they are "born" on, but then you are denying people huge sections of EU, especially if they are born on a planet other then Calypso.
 

Theocles

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I never understand the rage about lootable PvP, are people forcing you to go in the red zones with stuff on you? Its part of the game, and its part of the game you can choose to avoid 100% if you so desire.

And if getting looted makes anyone mad, can come try to loot me as im typically mining or hunting lootable anyway, I won't cry about it if i die though so have at it. PvP is an aspect of the game some people care about, and for those of us who enjoy it, we don't say areas of the game others are passionate about should be removed, so just stick to the things you enjoy, and if you dont enjoy them dont do it, simple as that.
 

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Aside from glitches or exploits, it seems like the addition of lootable pvp in space and the size of the map was intended to try and make players choose a "home planet" so to speak vs constantly jumping from planet to planet. Each planet should have it's own economy while traveling from planet to planet should be a little more difficult if you want to sell goods that are not unique to where you are selling. Right now, Calypso is still the trade hub of the universe for majority of goods.

What would the point of motherships and privateers be if they removed PVP? Honestly, the cost of warp now-a-days and the various services and schedules makes traveling quite easy and inexpensive.
best point I've read here I think, I never quite thought of it that way. I thought it was a barrier to freedom, but that makes sense as a means to create local economies and promote space travel/guide as a gameplay. Problem is MA's continual follow up and maintenance of it - they seem to give PPs the shaft and are slow to implement and react to their plans and request. The economies haven't developed much and are super niche.
You can also see the discussion that followed regarding lootable items and I don't think it's ever been super clear and again that's MA's fault.

I love EU because of the freedom of game play, space for me has just been a huge barrier to that freedom as my options are to : fly without loot and take 15-20 mins of idle time I don't have, hire a private warp which isn't cheap (on a game very costly already) and isn't always available instantly or when I'm on, or just stay on the planet I"m at either longer than I want or just never try other PPs content - which again doesn't help the game IMO.

Sorry you got looted, it sucks and I will keep any comments about the pirate discussion to myself.
Peace.
 
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