How sweat affect us all... (traders ripping off noobs pt 2. if you allow)

[dolera]

Now, is a bit normal to exist a market price for ME. Currently, is about 270%. That is decided mostly by MF skillers, they buy in huge qtys. And logical, they will want to pay the less. Especially when a part of skilling means helping sweat gatherers and when exist no sweating cap.

are you sure about that?
I've been sweating and mining nexus (all myself yes) and i found out that it is hard to sell ME even for 250%!
wtf? it is easier to sell sweat for 1.15 and nexus for 1.30 (giving 2.45 total) than to refine it to ME and sell for 2.5! wtf again!

 

[Kerham]

are you sure about that?
I've been sweating and mining nexus (all myself yes) and i found out that it is hard to sell ME even for 250%!
wtf? it is easier to sell sweat for 1.15 and nexus for 1.30 (giving 2.45 total) than to refine it to ME and sell for 2.5! wtf again!

lol possible, i said i don't care much on the price, i keep for myself a part of nexus and rest i sell, i don't bother to sell ME.

 

[Leviathan]

Resell....

Whether sweaters are paid 1.0 or 1.1 for their sweat doesn't change the % of them who will stay in the game and become depositors.
(And those who stay and just keep reselling/trading like you, do *not* contribute to the economy in a positive way anyhow)

So no need for you to get all worked up by people offering 0.0005 PED less per bottle than yourself, imo.

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I believe that if people get a chance to buy a gun and rewarded for their efforts at selling sweat there are more chances for them to stay in the game.This is simple logic, I dont know the real numbers but I bet 100PED that people that get to hunt stay at the game longer, thereby increasing the size of the economy.


Finally, .00005pecs less for you might not be much but when you started the game I bet you longed for 1pec. Lets all be sensitive for differences. Not everyone in every country, in some age intervals, has credit cards.

TY for replies

 

[Alice]

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I believe that if people get a chance to buy a gun and rewarded for their efforts at selling sweat there are more chances for them to stay in the game.This is simple logic, I dont know the real numbers but I bet 100PED that people that get to hunt stay at the game longer, thereby increasing the size of the economy.


Finally, .00005pecs less for you might not be much but when you started the game I bet you longed for 1pec. Lets all be sensitive for differences. Not everyone in every country, in some age intervals, has credit cards.

TY for replies

the problem is just, for a useful hunt you need at least 22.20 ped, for tt handgun and some ammo, 2k sweat more or less, and 1.0 or 1.1 doesn't differ that much, of course if you want to hunt you have to sweat much more, i mean several 10ks
but still, most ppl sweat to get around 5 ped, buy a gun (sword too expensive often) and then see after 300/150 shots that you can't earn cash with hunting and quit
some are a bit harder and sweat 2 days, to around 1k sweat, those chances are slightly higher, and it starts to get interesting to sell higher

are you sure about that?
I've been sweating and mining nexus (all myself yes) and i found out that it is hard to sell ME even for 250%!
wtf? it is easier to sell sweat for 1.15 and nexus for 1.30 (giving 2.45 total) than to refine it to ME and sell for 2.5! wtf again!

as long i have my sweating level race with Mikah atm, i don't sell the sweat, i sell ME, and i get 1.2 per sweat if you count that way
til now all my ME sold at buyout at 252%, but maybe its just luck
or the amount, i sell always at least 5k

 

[In Love With]

Can I race with you an Mikah?

I do agree that it is difficult for a non-depositing n00b to get started as it is correct what Alice said, 500 sweat buys you a handgun and 300 ammo at best ... Thats gone after shooting 6-10 mobs and if you're unlucky you get 2 pecs and 5 non-loot messages. I'd say at that point 9/10 quit EU thinking they have been duped.

I would propose (if possible) to have every character being able to buy one new and non-repairing gun (and L-gun) and a decent amount of ammo (say 1k) for 1k sweat at the tt. That gun should have a great learning bonus and should make some really good damage too (I'd say slightly better then the opalo). Catch would be that after the 1k ammo is gone, the gun must be broken and you can only use this once per avatar. I don' know whether that is possible to do, but that way a n00b would get some fun out of hunting, wouldn't get ripped off by sweat traders (if they are unlucky) and MA wouldn't really lose anything as I'd say more people would carry on playing EU after that experience

Just an idea really
ILW

 

[nvcK]

1) quit whining
2) the game is noob friendly, just not cheapass friendly

 

[Dheart]

right!
Well, on my very first day at PA I watched suspiciously the main channel.
Then I spent some time here reading the forum.
Now I'm hording my sweat until it's woth selling.

Patience is a virtue noobs

I have been playing this game for more then a month, have never sold any sweat I gathered yet. almost 13k now. will wait until I had at least 20k and see a good price.

 

[Leviathan]

Can I race with you an Mikah?


I would propose (if possible) to have every character being able to buy one new and non-repairing gun (and L-gun) and a decent amount of ammo (say 1k) for 1k sweat at the tt. That gun should have a great learning bonus and should make some really good damage too (I'd say slightly better then the opalo). Catch would be that after the 1k ammo is gone, the gun must be broken and you can only use this once per avatar. I don' know whether that is possible to do, but that way a n00b would get some fun out of hunting, wouldn't get ripped off by sweat traders (if they are unlucky) and MA wouldn't really lose anything as I'd say more people would carry on playing EU after that experience

Just an idea really
ILW

Makes sense!
This is great idea ILW!

 

[Waldi]

I have been playing this game for more then a month, have never sold any sweat I gathered yet. almost 13k now. will wait until I had at least 20k and see a good price.

... i did the same and finaly sold 23k to a reseller for 1.0 - i wasn´t able to sell more than 3k for a higher price and wasted hours (if not days) of my time selling and have been happy in the end to got rid of my stock

currently my stock is growing again, since not even the reseller buy sweat anymore ...

 

[Vedder]

Well, The sweat price in itself is not very important. It's much more interesting how many pec/min you earn from sweating, and it's *not* the same thing.


Now, sweat prices will drop again I think....
2 times this week, tried sweating for just 5-10 minutes or so, and on both occations I got around 150 sweat.

Unless I just got really lucky both times, sweat/min has gone up again, which means the sweat price will drop again.
But... Since you can gather sweat faster the sweaters should get around the same pec/min from their efforts.

 

[MysterLV]

So I`m not a reseller also and was big noob at begining and also started with sweating.

When was then Sweat cap system sweating was very very easy and i could sweat about 1k-2k in one hour.

Now in last time (some 5h) with hunting and mining i lost about 700 PED and felt very bad, because it never been so. Yes i know that some 700 PED is nothing big, but for me it`s quite much for so small time.

So I decided to not deposit by now and do to sweat for some time when i see changes in EU or for my avatar luck cycle.


So trying to sweat facts that is and everobody knows:
- can`t sweat on spaceships
- can`t sweat by traping mob anyhow
- sweat drop amount is less then before.

All these facts made sweating very very hard.
I tried to sweat (255 skill) for an hour on exa and bibos and got 200 sweatsin one hour. So to get 1k sweat (11 PED for current avg price) you need to sweat about 4-5h.

Also if you whant bigger sweat amount per drop you have to sweat stonger mobs and that will make your armor decay what will not pay back with sweat, and sweat with out armor on stronger mobs (like Armax Bull/Cow Young to Old) is imposible.

So i think that Sweat price must go up, but it just goes down.
Why go UP? Because sweaters now get 5x less sweat in some certain time then it`s was before. I don`t say that price must be 5x bigger, but must be about some 1.5-1.8 pec per bottle(instead of 1.0-1.2 what is now).

What can affect market prices?
Only sweaters!!!! Why because if they will not sell less then 1.5 then resellers will do not have any sweat to operate with.

So the suggestion is to some regular sweater create some soc for noobs and sweaters and explain all and then soc will control the prices if all sweaters will be in one soc.
Soc must explain all sweat system and also price, market and economy.

GL to all.

 

[Leviathan]

The big picture

This thread has been interesting, but "how trade affects us all" is about fewer people entering at the formal economy... sweat is the lure for newcomers. It is not so much about how much and if you can profit with sweat or if you should deposit or not.

If you visit PA and Twin it is empty most of the time (lag remains the same though).

 

[Sam7Jacob]

Sorry to bump such an old post but I just got to the forums recently and I have been looking through things that have been interesting.

I'm right there with you, mate. Last night I was just hanging out in PA when I noticed (name withheld) telling people that the current sweat price was 1.15 pec, but that they would only pay 1.0 per unit.

Sadly, there were a lot of noobs out there at the time that were sincerely in need of a few pec and were willing to sell it at the 1.0 pec.

I openly challenged (name withheld) and informed all the noobs that I would pay 1.12 per unit on their sweat, even though I didn't need it. I hate worse than anything seeing someone openly screw over the noobie population of EU. Unfortunately for the noobies in PA last night, (name withheld) didn't give up and leave as I had hoped and instead I had to sign off and go to sleep before I was able to buy too much more sweat.

Simply put... if you can sell to the TT, you should be able to buy it from the TT.

Maybe instead of just selling it to the TT, let the TT act as a bank. It can be deposited into the Bank of Sweat and then others can purchase or Withdraw from the Bank of Sweat.

Of course the price to TT is is less by a margin then it is to sell it openly... in this way it still makes it more attractive for people to sell in public rather than the TT, and the profit that the TT system makes from sweat could be added into the loot pool.

So, for sheer examples sake:

Current market price of sweat on open market is 1.15
TT price to "DEPOSIT" sweat is 1.1

To buy sweat on the open market is of course 1.15
TT price to withdraw sweat is 1.2

the difference of 0.1 per unit for each unit sold via the TT system would go into the loot pool.

That is just my

It's a very good idea but you seem to be complaining when someone other than MA does it. Surely anyone should be allowed to do it? And instead of depositing and withdrawing, all you are actually doing is buying and selling.

 

[Canesh Athey]

I have read this thread with great interest. The "I dont want a debate" has developed into one. Some of you may know me, I have deposited but have a very tight real life economy at the moment so I cannot deposit. I am sweating alot to try and break more even with my skilling. I am fortunate enough that I can be sweating while I work and still not neglect my work duties but that is another story.

There is two ways of sweating as I see it, or well rather three but ill use two methods here.

1st without armour with fap
seems to me this would be the most economical setup especially if you have built up alot of evade skills so your fap dont decay so much since its eating up the profit.

2nd with armour and fap
biggest sweat bottle gain per hour, take less damage and doesnt require as much "mental" awerness as the 1st option more expensive since you decay your armour but you gain evade quicker since you can sweat for longer periods of time.

now I am trying to average 1k sweat bottles a day when I am at work I get a 1.2 pec a bottle price from a friendly soc mate who makes ME. 1.2 pec is a good "market price" but seeing as 1k = 12 ped @ 1.2pec it would be ok unless I have other expenses like repairing armour, fapping costs and I also use focus charges myself so after armour is repaired I have roughly 5-6ped in left over profits and I havent bothered to check with the factors of fap and ME costs.

I usually get 1k sweat for about half a day (dunno perhaps 4-7hours) of sweating figuring I average 250sweat an hour but it cycles somewhat. lets use 4 hours in this example. 5 ped (counting profit low due to fap and ME costs) / 4 hours = 1,25ped profit an hour. 1,25ped = 0.125usd an hour, thats worse then a slave labor salery, minimum wages or whatever you want to compare it with. And that is at 1.2 pec a bottle. I read a few posts that Mindforce users have such high costs? Well this entire debate I havent seen anyone taking up the nexus price? You want lower ME costs perhaps dump the market on nexus? Perhaps people should give both nexus and sweat for free to ME users? Or perhaps ME users could pay 2 pec a bottle or perhaps even 3 pec a bottle why? Because they would help newcomers out and they would not be paying for the ME they would be paying for not having to spend hours of boring time sweating! Are you a ME user and want less costs of using it? Perhaps you should sweat yourself??? I am thinking that I am not making money I am skilling evade and making a slight profit (and the other related skills) so perhaps in 10 years or so when my evade is high enough I can start selling evade by skilling it through sweating or wait wouldnt most of the sweaters start doing that to thereby dumping the entire market on selling evade skill ruining it for people wanting to chip out and we would all hear how it was the sweaters fault?

I welcome this debate and I hope my post will create more of a debate on this issue I can understand bost sides of the debate but lets get back to my 250sweat hourly average at that rate it would take me 40hours to get to 10k sweat I have yet to see a ME user who is financing that through sweating he/she is most likely a depositor and people negotiate for 0.1pec a bottle ex 1.0 to 1.1 pec well the difference is 10ped=1USD on 10k sweat for roughly 40 hours give or take of work (my evade and Sweat gather skill aint that noteworthy).

The only sensible way I can see you can make some sort of "efficiant" profit in sweating is by being an evade uber and having a high sweat skill so you can sweat without armour and fapping to get the highest effective profit.

What is my point with this post, well in short fuel the debate give my opinion on this matter wich is I understand both sides and really want people to reflect what sort of work 10k sweat means at what the difference is betwhen 1.0 to 1.1 pec a bottle @ 10k sweat.

I am not trying to bash anyone in this post I just want to fuel the debate because I hope that the outcome of this will be better for all entropians.

Have a great weekend
-Canesh

 

[Timo]

Alot of big posts here - i will read sometime when i am not dying to get in game.

I had a similar idea here

Fairtrade sweat - it would put alot of resellers out of business but so what - if we all help out - it can be a success

 

[shroeder]

BUYING AT LOW PRICES HURTS US ALL IN THE LONG RUN. BUYING IT FAIRLY INCREASES THE AMOUNT OF MONEY CIRCULATING IN ENTROPIA... u know this is good for all of us.

Buying it fairly does NOT increase the amount of money circulating it merely redistributes it, depositing increases the amount of money circulating.

 

[kira-red]

1st without armour with fap

2nd with armour and fap

focus charges go with #2. obviously, #2 is the quickest way. I don't know if is the best though. I use the first method but without a FAP.

What is my point with this post, well in short fuel the debate give my opinion on this matter wich is I understand both sides and really want people to reflect what sort of work 10k sweat means at what the difference is betwhen 1.0 to 1.1 pec a bottle @ 10k sweat.

you'll probably disagree with me, but I'd rather have sweat prices drop even lower. I don't think one should look at sweating as any sort of job. it's kind of like welfare. I do it when I run out of "regular" things to do. it's not a big effort to collect 10K in sweat, it just takes time.

so, you ask, how much should that be worth? I figure about 10-20 ped. you said it takes you about 40 hours, so for a new person who cannot afford to pay, for every 40 hours of misery ("sweating"), they can generate 10-20 ped.

once they have some basic equipment, this effort should pay for a couple of hours of "fun" (non-sweating). I don't see this as being unreasonable.