Question: How very odd amps are

[Peezle]

I know this should be in the mining thread but, as I am so green, seems best to put it here.

Today I used 2 103 ore amps and got nothing more than VIII Blausarium. As the last amp was burnt out, I had 1 bomb left ( miscalculated the bombs I needed ) and with that got 108 ped lysterium.

My question is this....

Just random, or was I being rewarded for wasting peds on amps or something else? Anyways, it makes me wonder about amps since all my globals and HoFs so far have been unamped and I have used 5 amps so far.

Thoughts....

 

[JohnCapital]

Keep track of your TT spend vs your TT return and you'll start to notice a few things.

Using amps only occasionally, it's not uncommon for the global to come after its use.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

Amps are strictly for gamblers and people who are poor at math.. Most definately NOT for new miners.

The reason you got what you did is simply the ped you cycled.

You could have had the same returns simply dropping the ped you spent on amps in bombs.

Globals and hofs come as balance to compensate for large loss. That is the draw.. everyone wants the bells and whistles....Be careful not to get sucked into this as this practice is what usually bites players in the ass and a year down the road we will read the I got fucked Im quitting thread because you expect this balance to stay for ever which it does not.

EU is a zero sum game. They want ALL of your money so keep that in the back of your head or they WILL cycle you to zero.

 

[CyberPunk]

Amps are strictly for gamblers and people who are poor at math.. Most definately NOT for new miners.

The reason you got what you did is simply the ped you cycled.

You could have had the same returns simply dropping the ped you spent on amps in bombs.

Globals and hofs come as balance to compensate for large loss.

Once you get into using high markup finders, "dropping the ped you spent on amps in bombs." costs you alot more markup than using an amp to accomplish this.

I don't use these expensive finders, but for those who do, amps have a advantage which is NOT "strictly for gamblers and people who are poor at math" (especially if you're using high markup enhancers which are increasing high markup finder decay)

 

[Trina Xenophage]

Once you get into using high markup finders, "dropping the ped you spent on amps in bombs." costs you alot more markup than using an amp to accomplish this.

I don't use these expensive finders, but for those who do, amps have a advantage which is NOT "strictly for gamblers and people who are poor at math" (especially if you're using high markup enhancers which are increasing high markup finder decay)

So it becomes a function for rich players that have major cash they can sit on to ride thru the massive losses that also come from amping in bad times?

Bottom line is return comes from ped cycled no matter how it is accomplished...Amps and enhancers make that happen faster thus the illusion they are efective. Simple as that.

 

[CyberPunk]

So it becomes a function for rich players that have major cash they can sit on to ride thru the massive losses that also come from amping in bad times?

Bottom line is return comes from ped cycled no matter how it is accomplished...Amps and enhancers make that happen faster thus the illusion they are efective. Simple as that.

Bottom line is TT vs markup, seems you are just looking at TT, which will put you in the hole fast.

Amps help cycle TT while offsetting finder/enhancer markup.

It is good math, not for the rich, for the educated and of course high level miner (who will be targeting high markup claims).

I'm not trying to be a dick in contradicting you, just stating the facts.

If you target the right resources with the right finders/amps/enhancers, you won't have to worry much about dry spells.

 

[Peezle]

They want ALL of your money so keep that in the back of your head or they WILL cycle you to zero.

Damn cynical reply but also very astute I think

I like your style

 

[Immortal]

Amps are strictly for gamblers and people who are poor at math...

I use amps all the time, because I value my time above a minute percentage in markup/cost

I do agree they are not for beginner's though, but they are restricted from using them anyway.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

For Immortal...

Peezle has just started within the last week or so...he is on here stating he was using 103 amps...Im thinkin they aint too restricted....

For Cyberpunk.

In my experience with amps ( after near 4 years playing... see mining level in siggy) I learned that when amping my claim to bomb ratio drops from 25+ per 100 bombs to under 15. The claim sizes really do not go upwhen using them..I stopped even bothering when I was on cnd and after using a 105 amp the best claim it got was a III caldo thru out its life span in a dome where I was getting roughly 20 claims per 100. granted I was only level 25 ish back then but still not a nub. in the times I have used amps in extremely stable mining areas they have only ever gloabled once for me so I will stand by my ststement from MY exoerience amps are for gamblers and people who are poor at math. You may be blessed with the MA luck gene and to that I say Rock on brother. But most are not so telling people amps are effective is truely NOT telling the entire story how they work.

BTW.. there are not many more ores left now with decent MU to warrant amps even if they were effective. You make it sound like when amping you will get rares like normal people get standard MU ores. The rares still come few and far between with higher gear.

Telling a new player amps are god is just plain wrong my friend no matter how you look at it. That just sets one more person up for failure and more bad press for EU down the road.

 

[Dustrial224]

Amplifiers in my oppinion is used for 2 reasons.

One: To save time in the matter of dropping less bombs and usually getting higher than avg claims.

Two: To get a higher claim if you are after a specific resource. Let's say you want to mine in pvp 4, where you can find resources for 600% mu and more. Imagine if you hit a claim and it was amped. It means for every ped you increased in the claim you earn 5 peds more.

 

[Klod]

For me its just a option of speed, MU of ore/enm and MU of amp. If the mu of the ores is high and cost of amp is low amp win in long run. Most common problem for people seem to be they have no budget for their amps.

I also would like to add my math is very precise and gamble only occur when I got spare cash

 

[milduser]

....

It is good math, not for the rich, for the educated and of course high level miner (who will be targeting high markup claims)........
If you target the right resources with the right finders/amps/enhancers, you won't have to worry much about dry spells.

I just dont understanding why miners should target high MU resources (instead of targeting the type of resources they ( or crafter) required). Do you think MA is going to give you TT return without taking into account of the Mark Up? Tell me if MA wants to give you TT return of 100 peds, what is the difference if you global 100 peds lyst or 84 peds (of some resource with 120%)?

The Auction Data of resources are used by MA ( I am sure) in calculating TT returns.

 

[Parlog]

For Immortal...

Peezle has just started within the last week or so...he is on here stating he was using 103 amps...Im thinkin they aint too restricted....

For Cyberpunk.

In my experience with amps ( after near 4 years playing... see mining level in siggy) I learned that when amping my claim to bomb ratio drops from 25+ per 100 bombs to under 15. The claim sizes really do not go upwhen using them..I stopped even bothering when I was on cnd and after using a 105 amp the best claim it got was a III caldo thru out its life span in a dome where I was getting roughly 20 claims per 100. granted I was only level 25 ish back then but still not a nub. in the times I have used amps in extremely stable mining areas they have only ever gloabled once for me so I will stand by my ststement from MY exoerience amps are for gamblers and people who are poor at math. You may be blessed with the MA luck gene and to that I say Rock on brother. But most are not so telling people amps are effective is truely NOT telling the entire story how they work.

BTW.. there are not many more ores left now with decent MU to warrant amps even if they were effective. You make it sound like when amping you will get rares like normal people get standard MU ores. The rares still come few and far between with higher gear.

Telling a new player amps are god is just plain wrong my friend no matter how you look at it. That just sets one more person up for failure and more bad press for EU down the road.

cant believe your numbers there. 20 claims per 100 bombs on cnd, no way? lolz i am happy with 4-5 claims and if they are unamped IX+ they use to pay. III caldo on cnd with oa105?? Claim sizes do not go up??? Sorry, i cant believe this.

not sure if we play the same game. I agree to most of the other statements though. For me i made the rule that an amp yields normal results at 5 times of its recommended level, so i start to amp with oa 103 at level 15, with oa104 at level 20 and so on

 

[anonimity]

cant believe your numbers there. 20 claims per 100 bombs on cnd, no way? lolz i am happy with 4-5 claims and if they are unamped IX+ they use to pay. III caldo on cnd with oa105?? Claim sizes do not go up??? Sorry, i cant believe this.

not sure if we play the same game. I agree to most of the other statements though. For me i made the rule that an amp yields normal results at 5 times of its recommended level, so i start to amp with oa 103 at level 15, with oa104 at level 20 and so on

i concur here. it is impossible to have an ore claim anywhere (CND especially) the size of III when using OA-105. the minimum size for ore claims nowadays is II but the minimum TT is lets say 0.80 ped for 1 stone of duru. with oa-105 that makes the claim 4.00 ped minimum or 5 stones effectively. 4 ped is an IV claim. therefore i tend to believe that this statement is overexaggerated.

the other mistake is saying that amps are for people who are poor at math?
yes, i will believe that gamblers love amps (see miners on cnd with 109 amps.....) but poor at math?

tell me how paying 110% for a generic amp, because most of the lower amps these days are around this price, and mining resources like narc, niks, gazz, you name it, which have +10%, +20%, or more markup is bad math? going with the assumed theory that we get about 90% of our tt returned on a given run, then you have to make 111% markup on average over the long run to break even. 111% markup is very easy to do for the clever miners who know where to avoid the low markup shit, while finding all the good stuff. so if you add an amp into the equation, you're just increasing your bottom line cost, but if you are able to target the resources with significantly higher markup than the cost of your amp, in the long run you will profit.

anyone can take a finder with amps out and start dropping bombs just anywhere, but it takes a skilled miner with extensive knowledge of what resources can be found where, and when to mine these resources to make a profit mining. you have to remember, that the ore market is constantly fluctuating, so if cald and gazz are good one week, a miner will adapt and drop bombs in areas he/she knows cald and gazz can be found in abundance. if cald and gazz crash down to 105% for some reason, then he/she will know enough to say "oh look, cald and gazz arent worth mining anymore cause they have shitty markup, but gee, belk and niks are up 15% this week" this is the true essence of being an intelligent miner.

i hope my post makes sense. if anyone has questions feel free to pm me

 

[Deity A]

How strange is it that ppl say amps like an OA103 (109% MU) are for gamblers; and that same ppl go to a place like CND where there is no MU ore and you pay a 5% tax on everything you claim

Amps are firstly a time saver and secondly help you to cycle peds. I you use a high end finder with enhancers to get those nice MU ores you'll notice that amps are a blessing. If you manage to avoid lyst you just don't care about the little cost the MU of an amp has.
A t320 would cost you 4.3pec decay or 7 with MU and enhancers tend to break at a same rate whether or not you use an amp.
Also and I haven't found any reason why is that if you cycle very much ped a day MA tends to take a lesser %. Seems they want to keep the average of 1$ an hour to play somehow.

Now on the other hand it is possible to get a V on CND with an OA105; I've gotten a few with the same amp nonetheless. Is this a bug or not I cannot tell.

And yes MA wants you to get 90% back in tt value and they don't care about MU you get. Sure you might think it's less and even in the long run it can be 85% only since the 90% is an average the system stabilizes around; if you play it smart you can go up to 93% as well.

If you want to play smart and do the maths everyone; do them correctly.
For example if you use a 103 amp with 10.5ped MU you get to spend 168ped in total before the amp breaks after which you get a 2ped unusable amp.
Now if you use a t320 it will decay 4.3pec a use. so if you will save 4.303*112tt value. now if you take a MU of 140% you'll safe 6.74ped.

That means you'll lose 4.76 ped on 168ped if you don't use enhancers. If you use enhancers you'll end up that it is better to use an amp actually.

Now tell me if you go to CND and mine unamped and pay 5.1% tax on 168spend tt where you would get 90% back you pay 7.71PED to Jacob. thats a little more then 4.76PED. And for what? to find ores with low MU?

Ofcourse it is easy to say that you lose on the MU of amps at one point but going to CND instead is pure slapstick. And not only CND; you can put any avatar owned LA in the list.
Only exception of this; and many skilled miners will tell you that they do mine taxed areas because the MU of some ores justify the paying of tax.

but go ahead and ignore the math, in the end nobody but you and your pedcard will bother.

And to the OP, if you are a newbie get a finder you maxed and search for ores that are in your skillrange. You want to find belk and narc; don't ever settle for lyst and move out of area's where you get more then 15-20% lyst. If you find a good area with nice ores mine it over and over again; it's better to have sellable stacks of a few types then every ore in the gamma.
If you can't sell on auction and you need ped quick go to twins; try to trade with lexie (purple/yellow coat) or sarah (reddish/yellow dress). never tt anything (although I tt lyst but I find less then 2% lyst in the long run).

Ahh, and don't use OA's until you know the math and you have the peds to burn.

 

[Profit]

I was on cnd and after using a 105 amp the best claim it got was a III caldo thru out its life span in a dome where I was getting roughly 20 claims per 100.

Come again?

 

[Harvest]

My question is this....

Just random, or was I being rewarded for wasting peds on amps or something else? Anyways, it makes me wonder about amps since all my globals and HoFs so far have been unamped and I have used 5 amps so far.

Thoughts....

I used to burn though an oa103 with about 2 to 3 globals on average. Now I can burn through 4 OA104's with no global. Also now it seems like the average global for an oa104 is about 60 peds. That means the guy with the 109 is geting about 150ped a global.

Long story short, we are all getting fuct, record number of ppl quitting cause the games sooooo good .

PS I have gotten a III lyst with 109 dont belive me? Do the test.

 

[HinDragoz]

PS I have gotten a III lyst with 109 dont belive me? Do the test.

sry, but not possible. The smallest lyst I've got unamped is 0,97 or 0,98 so lets count 0,97 *21 = 20,37.. so X would be the smallest one to get with 109

 

[Wolverine Queen]

PS I have gotten a III lyst with 109 dont belive me? Do the test.

Yup not possible.. BS

 

[Franz Jaeger]

...Do you think MA is going to give you TT return without taking into account of the Mark Up? Tell me if MA wants to give you TT return of 100 peds, what is the difference if you global 100 peds lyst or 84 peds (of some resource with 120%)?

The Auction Data of resources are used by MA ( I am sure) in calculating TT returns.

MA don't calculate with MU when you getting a find.
The MU reflects how rare a resource is. Not the opposite.

 

[Mary Jane]

cant believe your numbers there. 20 claims per 100 bombs on cnd, no way? lolz i am happy with 4-5 claims and if they are unamped IX+ they use to pay. III caldo on cnd with oa105?? Claim sizes do not go up??? Sorry, i cant believe this.

not sure if we play the same game. I agree to most of the other statements though. For me i made the rule that an amp yields normal results at 5 times of its recommended level, so i start to amp with oa 103 at level 15, with oa104 at level 20 and so on

Just the real miners know that is not true
No way to hit 20 in 100

NEVER

 

[JingyiDai]

ah I am very afraid to use amps keep using very low end gears

oh does amps also increase the amount of those something out od exordinary craps?

 

[HinDragoz]

oh does amps also increase the amount of those something out od exordinary craps?

nope. too short

 

[LUCmarius1]

oh does amps also increase the amount of those something out od exordinary craps?

I wish those to get those "craps" always!

and for OP, you just got lucky m8 , anyway gz and last drop global/hof is always nice

 

[Redfrog]

Gratz on the 323 Blau HoF - what amp were you using?

 

[Trina Xenophage]

You all can talk all the shit you want whether you believe me or not...The old soc I was in knows that when I was on cnd I could pull 5 to 15 globals un amped in just 3 runs of 100 bombs each.. not including all the shitty little claims. Back then my claim to bomb ratio was between 12 and 17 per 100.

Then between VU 8.9 and 9.3 cnd was turned into a gamblers den with nrf's tripling this could no longer be done. When CND got to the point of over 100 nrf possible with no claims thats when I left.

I tried 3 more times between then and now and the nrf streeks are even worse. Anyone that mined cnd pre VU 8.9 has the right to post their feelings freely anyone not mining cnd between late VU 7 and VU 9 STFU you have no idea.

 

[Parlog]

You all can talk all the shit you want whether you believe me or not...

this time i got to say it: Screenie or it didnt happen. You spoke of 20 claims per 100bombs. I think that this is possible, but absolutely extraordinary and never can be reached on a regualr basis. no fuckin way, this is an ath streak of hits and when you got something like this, you instantly know that you just did something squallish. I had maybe 1 or 2 runs like this in hundreds maybe thousands of runs on CND

now you speak of 5-15 globals in 300 bombs, that is what i call a normal result on a good day. One sentence later its 12-17 claims per 100 bombs, relativised it down a lot huh? Sorry for my suspiciousness but its adviseable.

i started to mine in septembre 06, about 6 weeks after i started with EU. The hit ratio in decembre ´06 was the best ive ever experienced on CND (but i got an overkill of american christmas music back then, the "let it snow let it snow let it snow" still rings in the back of my head, at work it was all the same i mention this just to proove i was there, loads of mocking about the choice of music back then) But in these days CND was stuffed with people, especially miners. Btw we had this hit ratio again for a period of about 3 month like 2 years ago, when sqaull went nutz with his amp. Good times and bad times.

100 NRFs without a claim, dunno it never was that bad for me, but amped it sucks to have 50 NRFs without a claim followed by a VII hit of lysterium

 

[anonimity]

100 NRFs without a claim, dunno it never was that bad for me, but amped it sucks to have 50 NRFs without a claim followed by a VII hit of lysterium

i've heard of some pretty wicked streaks on cnd for nrfs... my personal best was 129, but i defnitely remember other people in my old mining soc getting streaks pushing 200 drops. its just crazy talk!

 

[Parlog]

i concur here. it is impossible to have an ore claim anywhere (CND especially) the size of III when using OA-105. the minimum size for ore claims nowadays is II but the minimum TT is lets say 0.80 ped for 1 stone of duru. with oa-105 that makes the claim 4.00 ped minimum or 5 stones effectively. 4 ped is an IV claim. therefore i tend to believe that this statement is overexaggerated.

amped mining can yield claims that would have been minimal size I unamped, and therefore cannot be found unamped, but amped they are a II or III or maybe more with bigger amps. I strongly reccomend that you stop mining at once if you find such "wtf-claim".

(dont tell anyone but 4 ped is a size V)

 

[CMS]

This thread kind of made me laugh a few times. hehe

Anyways on topic, yes sometimes you happen to get your ped spent back after you've used your amps up. You can in the long run expect to get 85-95 percent of your tt back from the system. Try to avoid lyst btw it will suck your ped card fast.