I don't understand how it is not gambling ?

Hope WolfGang

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So, can anyone tell me, without doing a load off math, and in simple english, how this is not gambling?

I mean i put, 500ped in a month, some times i lose it all, somtimes i gain 10x the amount i put in.... doing the same thing, in the same place.

from this i can say, i have no idea, none at all, how much i will get back, so is this not gambling?

If loot is skill base or what ever then how come my results change in a massive way, also loot being skill based is a theory from player is it not? and any other way is a theory and has not been verified by MA...

Not a whine thread, i just don't get it, can we not take MA to court for breaking the law, as me not knowing how much ill get out makes it gambling for me, so MA are providing a service that breaks the swedish law, or somthing like that ?
 

Legion

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Your varrying results are due to a few different reasons.

First you say you do the same thing, at the same time in the same area. What you should do is to check at what times you get good result and when you get bad. This is due to the timer that governs loot, it changes every day, so one day a certain spot is good at a certain time, the next day it might not be good.

Also loot is governed on how much a mob has been hunted or a certain ore mined etc. At certain intervalls but also in relation to the timer loot goes up for a certain mob and drops an uber.

Also skills play a part and show you where the good loot is at. There are certain indications that tell you where to go as the skills always show you the closest highest loot.
 

tundike

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/Its gambling 100% and to many ppl no this ..just its few smart guys who try to explain things and hidit, like another thing u realy think Mindark dont have ppl her on forum who read and also write ?..normaly its money invested her and we lose and mindark win ...yes its true how they say some ppl if u dont mine whit amp u can play alot why the fuck they make amps why they make the amps why its crafting? if u dont do this things to mine whit amp or craft or hunt whit L amps is not fk boring game ?
 

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It's not gambling, because you can influence ( at least a bit ) results with the Markups. You can'T sell casino chips for more than their nominal value
 

tundike

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wtfk u speaking now i speak about the main thing its like the casino normaly they dont leave u to sweat right? u depo and u lose it its enuf this? show me ur depo and the money what u make from mindark show me some proves dont fk speak is not casino its fuking hide casino bihend one game
 

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I can't answer your question but about 18 months ago two of my American based credit card companies decided this was a gambling site and began declining deposits. They were Citi card and At&T Universal card, I have not tried either since.

I think the big HOF, all or nothing current loot system adds to the gambling factor and also that the system does not take into account a persons deposits or amount of activity or past win/loss when calculating the return in loot which is given back, also adds to the gambling factor.

A casino slot machine does not care how much one deposits, wins or loses or how often one plays and it should not.

This however is not a slot machine, I thought it was supposed to be a mmorpg or at least something like one.

Sure new people should be able to get good loots but some days the top on the HOF board can be filled with players who have less then 10K peds total lifetime loot. Meanwhile the majority of long time players with 100X that amount of lifetime loots are still waiting for such high hof's.

Someone telling me that's better playstyle or whatever from the new guys or is that just luck? (gambling)
 
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mastermesh

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Try buying a shop to sell things in a real world casino. Try selling things like you can in the auction. Try panhandling casino customers selling various stuff - I don't think you'll stay on the casino grounds too long because security will haul you off or call the cops.
 

tundike

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Ahh u to dont be her? u have all the time somthing bulshit to say how much u depo in this game mister massmalow ?how much u lose? and how much u get back? im fuking depozited 10k ped in 1 mont and few days and u come whit ur stupid things i say before its fuking hide behind to one game if it was like casino exacvtly nobody play it right?u can make one game and put only crafting machins no ? u need to make it sofosticate to try to atarct ppl and depozitors
 

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In my book it is not gambling due to several factors.
Markup, possibility to sell skills, control over ones own loot variance to an certain degree, just to name some.

And as long is see the players on my friendlist that play smart (more like with common sense then smart really) and thoughtful break even, profit or at least play for moderate costs i see no reason to give up on that view.

That said, MindArk sure did a good job over the last years to make it more and more look and feel like a casino. :rolleyes:
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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The Swedish and American governments has both investigated and come to the conclusion that it is NOT a casino, thats good enough for me :wise:

Tundike: Go crawl back under the rock you came from instead of trolling here, please.
 

tundike

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Night _)_ that is for u how who investigate from usa?
 

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When people compare this game to gambling or major credit card companies decide to label this game a gambling website they are not doing so because of the auction house or how eco weapon x is compared to weapon y or based on the amount of knowledge one might have over another player.

They are doing so because of the game mechanics which allow players to risk large sums of money with the house (MA) controling payouts. MA could remove much of the gambling factors by reducing the risks but they have instead increased risks.

Major banks such a Citi Bank do not care that characters can sell goods at Twin, they do care that people are gambling tens of thousands of dollars at this site and some are probably defaulting on payments and it probably only took one of Citi Banks investigators about an hour to decide if this was a gambling site or not, at least to their standards.
 

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Urgh, of course it's gambling?

But, I'd also put it under the same heading as poker as you do have some influence on when you play, how much to play at a certain time and you are also playing against other people as well as the "dealer". Only difference is, you play long enough you will get an equal chance of AA as 2-7 in poker. In PE, you got about 99% chance of 2-7 ;)

Then again, there are plenty of idiots who will try to convince you that poker isn't gambling. It is, that doesn't make it a bad thing, it's a form of gambling I enjoy cos I have a bit of skill chance aswell as just the card chance.
 

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Not a whine thread, i just don't get it, can we not take MA to court for breaking the law, as me not knowing how much ill get out makes it gambling for me, so MA are providing a service that breaks the swedish law, or somthing like that ?

why do you want to take them to court? they dont say "this is not gambling" anywhere do they?

we can all see its gambling. but the body that matters, the swedish authority, has decided in its opinion it is not, therefore it can operate out of Sweden. would you play if it were based in UK where gambling is perfectly legal? is it the fact that its gambling, or the fact it doesnt explicit state it, which causes talk of courts? methinks its the latter, so accept it and carry on.

Try buying a shop to sell things in a real world casino. Try selling things like you can in the auction.

such points are bogus because shops are not core to the game. besides, a casino could easily open up a bazaar area or allow franchises to operate from within (prehaps some even do). unlike the US, you pay for drink and food in the typical UK casino, it doesnt stop it being a casino.
 
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Legion

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It's not gambling, because you can influence ( at least a bit ) results with the Markups. You can'T sell casino chips for more than their nominal value

This doesnt change that in respect to swedish laws.
 

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i was always thought when it was >50% based on luck its gambling, if its lower than that its not.

Imo this game isnt based on luck at all, if you only hunt 100% it perhaps is. But you can do all kind of things that arent possible in a casino, from sweating/swunting to trading/having a shop/service, being a fapper, helping ppl etc. Things where you can make profit or break even everytime. If you'd do this more than 50% of your time its not gambling. (and even the profs arent 100% luck, so its even lower than 50%)

Also profs like mining are also based on knowledge/skill more than 50%imo, if you do it the right way its not that hard to break even or even profit imo.

If you randomly hunt mobs above your lvl, or craft amps, or mine with 109 Id say it luck mostly, but it depends on how you play imo, you can make your gambling % <50
 
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Legion

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i was always thought when it was >50% based on luck its gambling, if its lower than that its not.

Imo this game isnt based on luck at all, if you only hunt 100% it perhaps is. But you can do all kind of things that arent possible in a casino, from sweating/swunting to trading/having a shop/service, being a fapper, helping ppl etc. Things where you can make profit or break even everytime. If you'd do this more than 50% of your time its not gambling. (and even the profs arent 100% luck, so its even lower than 50%)

Also profs like mining are also based on knowledge/skill more than 50%imo, if you do it the right way its not that hard to break even or even profit imo.

If you randomly hunt mobs above your lvl, or craft amps, or mine with 109 Id say it luck mostly, but it depends on how you play imo, you can make your gambling % <50

Well all these things still wont change if it's gambling or not, according to the law that is.
 

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wtfk u speaking now i speak about the main thing its like the casino normaly they dont leave u to sweat right? u depo and u lose it its enuf this? show me ur depo and the money what u make from mindark show me some proves dont fk speak is not casino its fuking hide casino bihend one game

Well all i see from you are complaining posts, figures and research is not exactly your strength. I never claimed i make money from MA and lookup my posts and you might also find my statement about deposits, i just stated why i think it'S not a casino
 
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Mikass

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Loot system is secret but not gambling

A Swedish authority inspected MA and assessed the system is not gambling. The loot system is a closely guarded business secret and MA won`t disclose how it works. Not even the planet partners know how it works :wise:.
 

Hope WolfGang

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Is MU not irrelative though

due to you have to get the first object before MU can be considered, and to get the first object, requires gambling.

somone said that they found it is not a casino? i do not know if this is the officials said, but if it is, then they are right, this game is not a casino, but it is gambling.

yes it is much like poker, as skill nd luck is required, poker is still gamling .

so i guess this game is gambling.
 

Hope WolfGang

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A Swedish authority inspected MA and assessed the system is not gambling. The loot system is a closely guarded business secret and MA won`t disclose how it works. Not even the planet partners know how it works :wise:.

This is one off my points, MA know the system so it is not gambling to them.

but to us, who has no idea at all how it works, it is
 

Mikass

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This is one off my points, MA know the system so it is not gambling to them.

but to us, who has no idea at all how it works, it is

Guess would take a leap of faith from our side and believe that it`s not. :)
 

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Tough question; before answering, there are also a few things that need clarifying:

1. Many confuse the word in the OP - gambling - with Casino. I believe the question is if EU is gambling and not if it's a Casino. There are countless ways to gamble that do not involve a Casino, which is in the end one form of gambling.

2. It really depends on who you ask. People that consider it gambling will bring out the gambling aspects, while the ones considering it not gambling will tell you otherwise.

3. Bringing the law into this is not a valid way of proving that it's gambling or not; there are many many examples of idiotic laws around the globe. For example, in Arkansas it is illegal to beat your wife more than once a month :eyecrazy:; without going further into jokes, the logic is that you can beat her once a month. So... does this mean that beating one's wife is OK?

From my stand point, EU is a hybrid: it's a game in which you have you have a certain control of the outcome, while there are many aspects of gambling. You can control aspects of your outcome by "playing smart", meaning you don't go hunting Merps in Shadow with a MM. Doing so, you will definitely loose; do it "naked" or with minimal armour, using an Opalo SGA and you will likely see very different results.

Far from saying that making money is a guarantee, regardless of the gear, but then again no one is guaranteeing you that you will make money in this game. With a little bit of thought, you will be able to get a decent return... 80, 90 %. The rest is the price you pay for the entertainment value of this game, whatever that means to you (fun, socialising etc).

This is my personal view and not a "knowing-it-all" post; take it at it's face value.
 

Hope WolfGang

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Hehe, i do want to believe there is a system, and i would like to believe it was skill based, as i think that would be fair in a way
 

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this is not gambling because real life is not gambling.. or similar.. you guys who think this is gambling forget that this is a virtual universe.. a universe just like irl.. that probably has a huge part in it.. and gambling.. as in casinos is mostly just to try your luck except poker.. but your not playing poker againt the house.. so the house is taking a % of the pots.. EU is very close to poker yes.. but in EU you can do so much more than just bet your money..
 

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This is one off my points, MA know the system so it is not gambling to them.

but to us, who has no idea at all how it works, it is

Well even if we think it is gambling that doesnt matter in the law respect which is what we have to consider.

Tough question; before answering, there are also a few things that need clarifying:

3. Bringing the law into this is not a valid way of proving that it's gambling or not; there are many many examples of idiotic laws around the globe.

The law is what decide if it's gambling or not. As it's the swedish law that says if it's gambling or not. But since the officials have said it's not gambling it's the end of that discussion. What people personally thinks has nothing to do with it.
 

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This is one off my points, MA know the system so it is not gambling to them.

but to us, who has no idea at all how it works, it is

all of us have some idea how the system works... like I know i can hunt sabakuma for orange paint, or mollisk for teeth. I know I overkill merp with an hl14, so I use a smaller gun. I know that mining near shinook is good if I want garcen grease.

not to mention things like auctions, stores, coloring, texturing etc...

If I had to guess why it was ruled not gambling, it would have to be just that it's more complicated than most other systems that are defined as gambling under the law...

I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that folks engage in most in-game systems hoping to trigger a random event get ahead ped-wise... so of course that aspect is gambling.

Do you WANT the game to be illegal?
 

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If I may interject.

Condition crafting a few clicks of amps is gambling , in Entropia. So is mining with 3-4 bombs or probes and really big amps.

However ...

Hunting puny mobs With Sollomate Kiwio MK.II for 10000 ped is not gambling, you'll lose about 10% of those peds.
Crafting basic filters at max success rate for 10000 ped is also not gambling, you'll lose about 10% of those peds.

Notice the difference ?

The player is the one choosing either to gamble or not, to get 90% you need a lot of dice...

So if you have a very small budget and you'd like to play tomorrow too with 90% tt of those peds ... don't hunt/craft/mine over your budget.

As far as markup goes, you can get profit worthy markup from all professions ( especially mining ) if you can hug the 90% tt return.


....


Oh, my point was that Entropia is not gambling as long as the player does not gamble himself.
 
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