If you are tired about low sweat price, please read this and join me. If not, don't read please.

Draxar

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(Firstly, I'm not an english native speaker, so, sorry for my bad grammar.)


Really, if you are here just to say "stop whining" etc... just don't.
I'm not here to whine, but to expose facts (like they are in my opinion), and to propose an idea to change things. And no, I'm not asking MA to do anything about it.

Sweat prices are plummeting. Since a long time now, and it will continue this way if nothing is done. And yes, it is a problem, and I will try to explain why.

On one hand, the needs of sweat have lowered, maybe since there are vehicles, I don't know. On the other hand, the new VSE stuff makes autosweating very easy. Now, in some places like Nea's Place, I don't know really how much sweat is gathered every day, but my guess is 200'000K since many people have told me that they gather 500sweat/hour, and since I think that there are something like 20people/hour (sometimes 0, sometimes 40..), and I count 20h/day, so I think that I am underestimating.

My guess is that this is way higher than what is needed. This is why 2 monthes ago, you could sell your sweat for 2.2PED/K, and now it's difficult to reach 2PED/K, and in the future maybe, it will be difficult to attend 1.5/PED/K...

You could always answer that it is nothing but a problem, since sweating is free, etc... But in fact, I see a problem in the fact that sweaters could make the exact same amount of PED by spending less time sweating. If 120000K of sweat is sold every day, well.. 120000K of sweat is sold every day. You always can gather the double and sell it for half the price, but.. it's just half of the time lost.

This is where I think people could do something, and I'm speaking about really DOING something, not "telling to people to sweat less" or stuff, 'cause, off course, some people will continue to sweat all the time, and make more money, and it would not be fair. No, I'm thinking about preventing people from sweating.

This is difficult to attend alone, and this is where I need motivated people to join my cause. The main principle is to flood easy-sweat spots with mobs, and this works, it lowers considerably the amount of sweat gathered by hour! The thing is that we need to be organized, to take shifts, and to spend some time doing that. The more we are, the little time is needed; and if we are enough, doing that and sweating will take less time than just sweating, for the same amount of PED earned, if you followed the whole explanation.

Now, some people say that sweat could not be sold higher than 2.5PED/K, because of the price of the mind essence. This is a nonsense, since the thing works the other way ! Not regarding the price of the sweat, there will always be someone trying to make a fast and little profit in crafting ME. The price of the sweat sets the price of the ME, not the opposite, so it won't be a problem.

Finally : I don't want to be a pain in the ass, and I'm not wanting to do that to have fun. But people don't want to be helped, they don't want to stop underselling their sweat, so, doing something like that is, in my opinion, the only way to help them, and help all the sweaters, even those who just want to make more profit than the others, even if it's ridiculously low. (maybe that for those, I want to be a pain in the ass)

Well, I'm done. If you are a sweater and if you want to make a change, if you want to help me beginning to really DO something about what I call the "sweat problem", join me ! If you want to continue spending 4hours to earn less than 2PED, well, just continue to do it ! And even if you are a non-sweater, you can join me anyway :)
 

Shadowsong

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Welcome to Calypso, you are going to love it here. Stand by for some ...... input.
 

minim

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Welcome to Calypso, you are going to love it here. Stand by for some ...... input.
Haha. Was about to reply something similar :p

Gl with your project
 

lyosha

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cost of 1k sweat: 2ped
cost of 10k nexus: 11 ped
refine cost: .25~ ped?

total cost to make 10ped TT of ME: 13.25~ ped
auction fee: .6~ ped

would need to sell for 13.85 ped to break even at 138% MU
selling at 140% nets you a nice 0.15 ped!

do you see where im going with this?:scratch2:
 

Shard-Angel

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Back in my day... ~9 years ago.. price of sweat was 5 peds/100. A couple years back it was 5 peds/1k.

Mindark does not gain or lose anything from sweaters - all PEDs ingame are paid by players who deposit and are then recycled player-to-player till the sweater gets them. But it would surely help if Mindark stabalizes the building foundation of EU = sweat.

Just remember MA, the day the sweat equation (ie f2p) is removed from EU, is the day EU eco-system will start to collapse. Depositors alone dont run this economy - we need consumers too.

Hopefully, Planet Toulan... and its rumoured "magic" society and combat (aka Mindforce) will help the sweater economy a bit.

I may be a depositor - but I fully support the sweat economy as well - where I was when I started. I sweat for fun randomly as well - good place to meet people.
 

TunerS

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some people will continue to sweat all the time, and make more money
This made me laugh as you can't be serious about making money with sweating. This is not 2008. anymore when you could get 5PED/h from sweating.

The price of the sweat sets the price of the ME, not the opposite, so it won't be a problem.
Totally wrong. Price of the sweat is set by the price of the ME which is set by the demand. No demand = ME price drops = sweat price drops because resellers can't profit anymore by buying sweat for the old price.

Also I will repeat the same sentence as a lot of players did before me - supply vs demand. As long as there will be players willing to sell sweat cheaper - there will be no way to rise the price. When players will finally refuse to sell sweat for less than x.xxPED/1K (which i doubt) then it will finally reach it's right price according to supply vs demand.
 

lyosha

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the thing with supply and demand is just that... if supply > demand than the price will go down, and the supply of sweat in EU is unlimited, i bet if i wanted to get 100k sweat for 125 ped it would take me less than a day to find a seller.
 

Corey 'Greyfox'

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500 sweat/hour=10cents/hour. You wouldn't go to work for 10cents/hour, so why the hell waste your time sweating for 10 cents and hour? I just don't understand it, why people even bother to sweat. 1 hour at min wage is 95ped, so really, why waste 95hours to make the same?
 

wizzszz

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You want to keep others from sweating so you can sell your sweat for more?

And who will be the "chosen few" that have your OK to keep sweating w/o your little task force trying to disturb them with mobtrains? How much you're gonna charge for a week of "safe sweating" then??



I would tell you how selfish your neat little idea is, but this is probably the 1000th thread on "let's gain control of the sweat market/price", so i'll just smile and move on...

:)


/Edit:

Oh, wait - i forgot to tell you this:

Stop whining!
 

silentkill234

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500 sweat/hour=10cents/hour. You wouldn't go to work for 10cents/hour, so why the hell waste your time sweating for 10 cents and hour? I just don't understand it, why people even bother to sweat. 1 hour at min wage is 95ped, so really, why waste 95hours to make the same?
Because we dont spend our work money into a money sink.
 

Draxar

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/Edit:

Oh, wait - i forgot to tell you this:

Stop whining!
lol..nice trolling ! I won't answer to the rest of your post, since it is useless and endless.


To the rest of you : I made some mistakes in my post.. when I write "make some money", I just mean making some PED.. in the game. No, sweating won't ever permit to earn a minimal wage, that seems very logical to me.
The only thing I want to do is reducing the time spent for the same amount of sweat sold.
Sweating is a part of a GAME, and that's why we can lose time doing it, but I don't see the point is losing so much time. And secondly, raising the sweat prices would just be symbolic.
and thanks for the GL.


edit: I have an other question : Some people told me that it was FORBIDDEN, and when I tested this, some told me that they reported me. So, is that really forbidden ?
 

mastermesh

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This is difficult to attend alone, and this is where I need motivated people to join my cause. The main principle is to flood easy-sweat spots with mobs, and this works, it lowers considerably the amount of sweat gathered by hour! The thing is that we need to be organized, to take shifts, and to spend some time doing that. The more we are, the little time is needed; and if we are enough, doing that and sweating will take less time than just sweating, for the same amount of PED earned, if you followed the whole explanation.
Wow, and I thought I had walls of text, lol. Took me a couple of read throughs to get to the gist of it, which is in the above quote. Is this a proposal to mob train the hell out of Neas, Lindamin and Port Atlantis? Good luck with that. There's no way you'd be able to mob train those three places alone, not counting countless other spots in game where there's mobs that give sweat, even if you had an army of helpers... and even if you could impact even one place, you'd risk being banned because multiple mob trains in one area that exist to irritate other avatars can and will likely just be reported in support tickets.

If you want to impact the price of sweat, maybe you should go deposit one million us dollars and use it to buy every single ME stack that hits the auction until they are all gone. Then resell them for more than you paid someday... Doing this you'd at least stand a descent chance of getting the job done even though it'd probably only last a week or two.... although that would be very temporary... at least it wouldn't get you banned.

as far as the 'forbidden' thing...
read the eula and terms of service.
c. You cannot interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe.

d. You may not take any action, post, communicate, upload or otherwise use any content, including text, images and sounds, that MindArk, at its sole and absolute discretion determines to be sexually explicit, racially, ethnically, religiously or sexually offensive, hateful, vulgar, defamatory, libelous, harassing or threatening to another person or organization or otherwise objectionable. This includes communications in the Entropia Universe and in any other website or forum with connection to the Entropia Universe.
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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at least it wouldn't get you banned.
Are you sure? I thought there was a fairly new rule against manipulating the market like that? lol
 

TunerS

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1 hour at min wage is 95ped, so really, why waste 95hours to make the same?
Really depends on where you live. In some countries you can get only 20$/day and that is considered as a normal salary.

You want to keep others from sweating so you can sell your sweat for more?

And who will be the "chosen few" that have your OK to keep sweating w/o your little task force trying to disturb them with mobtrains? How much you're gonna charge for a week of "safe sweating" then??



I would tell you how selfish your neat little idea is, but this is probably the 1000th thread on "let's gain control of the sweat market/price", so i'll just smile and move on...

:)


/Edit:

Oh, wait - i forgot to tell you this:

Stop whining!
That is the point. I mean have you ever seen anyone else other than sweaters making these kind of threads about rising sweat price? :laugh:
 

Draxar

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as far as the 'forbidden' thing...
read the eula and terms of service.
Really ?
"You cannot interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe."

Can anyone call that a rule ?. It can be interpreted in 1000ways.. It's difficult to prove that I "interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy" the game... I've been shot in space, can I fill a complaint ? I don't want to troll about this, but really, this is questionnable, but I would accept the MA decision about it anyway.
(because you also specifies "to irritate other avatars", which is not my point at all.)

and for the
That is the point. I mean have you ever seen anyone else other than sweaters making these kind of threads about rising sweat price?
that is an easy argument... I sweat from times to times, yes, who doesn't ? And if I said that I don't sweat, you could reply that, so, sweat is none of my business. Isn't that trolling ? Please stop polluting the thread, I'm trying to discuss an idea.
 

Doer

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Ah, the circle of life. :)

To be honest, i'm surprised anybody buys sweat. It's not used for most mindforce anymore and there has to be a huge surplus by now.
 

Falagor

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I say no... it is like capturing people with overweight problem and keeping them in captivity trying to starve them so they will loose weight... nonsense.

It will not help sweaters and you will only achieve bad reputation and iritation of sweaters.

It is more than obvious that MA does not want that price of sweat would be higher. They have power of raising the demand of using it while they actually do somethign totally oposite all the time.

I am sorry but this war can't be won this way (sadly i have no idea how it can we won and i have nearly 600k os sweat in my storage already :laugh:).

Falagor
:bandit:
 

Mega

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It is more than obvious that MA does not want that price of sweat would be higher. They have power of raising the demand of using it while they actually do somethign totally oposite all the time.
Like creating the Hussk requiring 500k sweat? ;)
 

Corey 'Greyfox'

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Because we dont spend our work money into a money sink.
So you would rather work longer to make less? Some how I just don't understand how that is enjoyment. A 4 hour shift at min wage=380ped, it would take 9 1/2 work weeks to make that sweating. So you could work 1 min wage 4 hour shift a week as an extra job, and depo the money from it. Or you can spend 2 1/4 months to make enough for a few hours entertainment. I just don't get why people would put so much effort into something when their is a much easier way to do it.


Really depends on where you live. In some countries you can get only 20$/day and that is considered as a normal salary.
That is true, but if a person is only making $20/day, I'd highly advise them to stay away from this game :)
 

Stave

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That would be harrassment, and it would prevent those that acctually need to sweat, the new borns, from doing so. All this move would do is seriously damage your reputation to the point of no return.

It also wouldnt work, because past events have shown all they do is find a new place to sweat. A couple of times pvp has ended up being turned on at neas, people came and killed the noobs repeatedly from revive, most recent time, people moved to Limnidian District instead and sweat there. So not only is this a bad idea, it also wouldnt work at all and the only end result is you and anyone that helped you, would end up being extremely unpopular.

Sweat is mainly a way to try out the game before looking any further.

Sweat price has always fallen becase the demand has never met the supply, also around VU9.x there was an exploit that flooded the market with unlimited amounts of sweat, people could trap mobs in server boarders and endlessly collect sweat without being attacked. This pushed an already fragile price balance over the edge.

The VSE isnt a cause because sweating has always been something like that, and before legit auto click, many used external auto clickers and such anyway.

The Mindforce change with attack and heal chips didnt damage it that much because very few people used attack and heal MF when it used ME due to the MU making it terribly uneco and nowhere near effective as their alterntives.

Vehicles havent done much damage because welding wire uses sweat.

Resellers have probably done serious damage to the price over the years by making most people think sweat is worth less than it really is through misinformation.

Whats being done about demand?

RT has added sweat to some BP's a while ago, Ark uses sweat in furnature BP's, ni may use it for something not sure, and there have been hints of sweat sinks being added for calypso where it can be traded in for other things.
 
Last edited:

Norbert

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Welding wire uses sweat in the bp, when i craft up wire i churn through a stack. Sweat for skills and the social aspect, any ped is a bonus. :)
 

Few Scars

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Some Arkadian Blueprints use sweat now, why not go to Arkadia or quit sweating deposit $10 and you will have 96Ped instantly!
 

Uvas

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(Firstly, I'm not an english native speaker, so, sorry for my bad grammar.)


Really, if you are here just to say "stop whining" etc... just don't.
I'm not here to whine, but to expose facts (like they are in my opinion), and to propose an idea to change things. And no, I'm not asking MA to do anything about it.

Sweat prices are plummeting. Since a long time now, and it will continue this way if nothing is done. And yes, it is a problem, and I will try to explain why.

On one hand, the needs of sweat have lowered, maybe since there are vehicles, I don't know. On the other hand, the new VSE stuff makes autosweating very easy. Now, in some places like Nea's Place, I don't know really how much sweat is gathered every day, but my guess is 200'000K since many people have told me that they gather 500sweat/hour, and since I think that there are something like 20people/hour (sometimes 0, sometimes 40..), and I count 20h/day, so I think that I am underestimating.

My guess is that this is way higher than what is needed. This is why 2 monthes ago, you could sell your sweat for 2.2PED/K, and now it's difficult to reach 2PED/K, and in the future maybe, it will be difficult to attend 1.5/PED/K...

You could always answer that it is nothing but a problem, since sweating is free, etc... But in fact, I see a problem in the fact that sweaters could make the exact same amount of PED by spending less time sweating. If 120000K of sweat is sold every day, well.. 120000K of sweat is sold every day. You always can gather the double and sell it for half the price, but.. it's just half of the time lost.

This is where I think people could do something, and I'm speaking about really DOING something, not "telling to people to sweat less" or stuff, 'cause, off course, some people will continue to sweat all the time, and make more money, and it would not be fair. No, I'm thinking about preventing people from sweating.

This is difficult to attend alone, and this is where I need motivated people to join my cause. The main principle is to flood easy-sweat spots with mobs, and this works, it lowers considerably the amount of sweat gathered by hour! The thing is that we need to be organized, to take shifts, and to spend some time doing that. The more we are, the little time is needed; and if we are enough, doing that and sweating will take less time than just sweating, for the same amount of PED earned, if you followed the whole explanation.

Now, some people say that sweat could not be sold higher than 2.5PED/K, because of the price of the mind essence. This is a nonsense, since the thing works the other way ! Not regarding the price of the sweat, there will always be someone trying to make a fast and little profit in crafting ME. The price of the sweat sets the price of the ME, not the opposite, so it won't be a problem.

Finally : I don't want to be a pain in the ass, and I'm not wanting to do that to have fun. But people don't want to be helped, they don't want to stop underselling their sweat, so, doing something like that is, in my opinion, the only way to help them, and help all the sweaters, even those who just want to make more profit than the others, even if it's ridiculously low. (maybe that for those, I want to be a pain in the ass)

Well, I'm done. If you are a sweater and if you want to make a change, if you want to help me beginning to really DO something about what I call the "sweat problem", join me ! If you want to continue spending 4hours to earn less than 2PED, well, just continue to do it ! And even if you are a non-sweater, you can join me anyway :)
The easiest way to reduce the number of players sweating is to keep sweating away. The large over supply of sweat will keep lowering the price until only a small amount of people will bother to do it. Once the price of sweat gets so low as to discourage most players from doing it, then the price will stop dropping.

Until then, happy sweating. :cool:
 

Draxar

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Thank you all for your answers.

(Since I don't really care about reputation, my offer is still valid anyway. Don't hesitate to PM me if interested.)
 

Konve

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Back in my day... ~9 years ago..
Rubbish! There wasn't sweat nine years ago. :wise:


Though, come to think of it, there was probably already someone trying to cartel the sweat market. :deal:


Thank you all for your answers.

(Since I don't really care about reputation, my offer is still valid anyway. Don't hesitate to PM me if interested.)
There, there. At the moment your reputation reads "Hatchling". And as you probably can tell - everyone here is aware of how new you are.

Attempts to band together and raise the sweat price has happened at regular intervals for the past six years or so. None of them worked.
 

Draxar

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Attempts to band together and raise the sweat price has happened at regular intervals for the past six years or so. None of them worked.
This is not a valid argument.. Many things have failed, this is not a reason to stop trying to do something else !

And, this is not really important but the rhetoric about me being new is not valid either since I started playing this game few years ago.. I don't really remember when, but the name of the game was "Project Entropia" at the time.

(edit: I've been in my account to verify the date : april 2004)
 

Corey 'Greyfox'

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This is not a valid argument.. Many things have failed, this is not a reason to stop trying to do something else !

And, this is not really important but the rhetoric about me being new is not valid either since I started playing this game few years ago.. I don't really remember when, but the name of the game was "Project Entropia" at the time.

(edit: I've been in my account to verify the date : april 2004)
You want a suggestion? Well I'm going to give it to you anyway, :) Your focusing on the wrong free activity.
 

Uvas

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This is not a valid argument.. Many things have failed, this is not a reason to stop trying to do something else !

And, this is not really important but the rhetoric about me being new is not valid either since I started playing this game few years ago.. I don't really remember when, but the name of the game was "Project Entropia" at the time.

(edit: I've been in my account to verify the date : april 2004)
The reason this idea will fail like all the other attempts to prop up sweat prices, is that you are fighting against the laws of the free market system.

An oversupply of a product will reduce its price.

A low need for a product will reduce its price.

A product that is easily and freely obtained by anyone will REALLY reduce its price.

Until these 3 things are addressed, prices will continue to fall. Any union or cartel of players that somehow manages to raise the price will just encourage MORE people to sweat, thereby increasing the supply and increasing downward pressure on prices.
 

silentkill234

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The reason this idea will fail like all the other attempts to prop up sweat prices, is that you are fighting against the laws of the free market system.

An oversupply of a product will reduce its price.

A low need for a product will reduce its price.

A product that is easily and freely obtained by anyone will REALLY reduce its price.

Until these 3 things are addressed, prices will continue to fall. Any union or cartel of players that somehow manages to raise the price will just encourage MORE people to sweat, thereby increasing the supply and increasing downward pressure on prices.
You do understand before sweat started dropping it had a stable price of 5ped/k? And never moved?
 
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