If you are tired about low sweat price, please read this and join me. If not, don't read please.

Aliana

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Really ?
"You cannot interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe."

Can anyone call that a rule ?. It can be interpreted in 1000ways.. It's difficult to prove that I "interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy" the game... I've been shot in space, can I fill a complaint ? I don't want to troll about this, but really, this is questionnable, but I would accept the MA decision about it anyway.
(because you also specifies "to irritate other avatars", which is not my point at all.)

and for the


that is an easy argument... I sweat from times to times, yes, who doesn't ? And if I said that I don't sweat, you could reply that, so, sweat is none of my business. Isn't that trolling ? Please stop polluting the thread, I'm trying to discuss an idea.
Rules can be interpreted different ways, but if I remember it right, there is already a precedent set on mob trains. I believe someone made mob trains with the drones out at Jason and ran them into the hunters repeatedly. That person was banned. I don't have the details of how long or anything. That's none of my business. The point is that yes, it would be considered interfering with another participant and the penalty could be getting banned. Do what you want, but do so at your own risk.

You can file a support case if you are shot in space, but it probably won't do any good. Space is lootable PVP which means it's sanctioned to shoot other participants and take any stackables they are carrying that are considered lootable. There's already a few debates over the issue of all of space being lootable PVP going on.

Hugs,
Aliana
 

wizzszz

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There, there. At the moment your reputation reads "Hatchling". And as you probably can tell - everyone here is aware of how new you are.
"Hatchling" is actually his post-count depending user title - his reputation is "poor".

Somehow matches a sweaters life now, doesn't it? :laugh:
 

Spart

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(Firstly, I'm not an english native speaker, so, sorry for my bad grammar.)


Really, if you are here just to say "stop whining" etc... just don't.
I'm not here to whine, but to expose facts (like they are in my opinion), and to propose an idea to change things. And no, I'm not asking MA to do anything about it.

Sweat prices are plummeting. Since a long time now, and it will continue this way if nothing is done. And yes, it is a problem, and I will try to explain why.

On one hand, the needs of sweat have lowered, maybe since there are vehicles, I don't know. On the other hand, the new VSE stuff makes autosweating very easy. Now, in some places like Nea's Place, I don't know really how much sweat is gathered every day, but my guess is 200'000K since many people have told me that they gather 500sweat/hour, and since I think that there are something like 20people/hour (sometimes 0, sometimes 40..), and I count 20h/day, so I think that I am underestimating.

My guess is that this is way higher than what is needed. This is why 2 monthes ago, you could sell your sweat for 2.2PED/K, and now it's difficult to reach 2PED/K, and in the future maybe, it will be difficult to attend 1.5/PED/K...

You could always answer that it is nothing but a problem, since sweating is free, etc... But in fact, I see a problem in the fact that sweaters could make the exact same amount of PED by spending less time sweating. If 120000K of sweat is sold every day, well.. 120000K of sweat is sold every day. You always can gather the double and sell it for half the price, but.. it's just half of the time lost.

This is where I think people could do something, and I'm speaking about really DOING something, not "telling to people to sweat less" or stuff, 'cause, off course, some people will continue to sweat all the time, and make more money, and it would not be fair. No, I'm thinking about preventing people from sweating.

This is difficult to attend alone, and this is where I need motivated people to join my cause. The main principle is to flood easy-sweat spots with mobs, and this works, it lowers considerably the amount of sweat gathered by hour! The thing is that we need to be organized, to take shifts, and to spend some time doing that. The more we are, the little time is needed; and if we are enough, doing that and sweating will take less time than just sweating, for the same amount of PED earned, if you followed the whole explanation.

Now, some people say that sweat could not be sold higher than 2.5PED/K, because of the price of the mind essence. This is a nonsense, since the thing works the other way ! Not regarding the price of the sweat, there will always be someone trying to make a fast and little profit in crafting ME. The price of the sweat sets the price of the ME, not the opposite, so it won't be a problem.

Finally : I don't want to be a pain in the ass, and I'm not wanting to do that to have fun. But people don't want to be helped, they don't want to stop underselling their sweat, so, doing something like that is, in my opinion, the only way to help them, and help all the sweaters, even those who just want to make more profit than the others, even if it's ridiculously low. (maybe that for those, I want to be a pain in the ass)

Well, I'm done. If you are a sweater and if you want to make a change, if you want to help me beginning to really DO something about what I call the "sweat problem", join me ! If you want to continue spending 4hours to earn less than 2PED, well, just continue to do it ! And even if you are a non-sweater, you can join me anyway :)
Puting a sweat cap on has proven not to work. Only thing this kind of cap will do is run new players off. IMO Sweat should be used in everything just like MA gets cash for healing decay ammo ect ect and the sweat mobs increased make it a gift economy to compliment the current one. One thing money and greed does is Deconstruct community. Current Economic models in the Real world are based on this and FAIL! Why else would we be having a global economic collapse?:scratch2:
 

Spart

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The reason this idea will fail like all the other attempts to prop up sweat prices, is that you are fighting against the laws of the free market system.

An oversupply of a product will reduce its price.

A low need for a product will reduce its price.

A product that is easily and freely obtained by anyone will REALLY reduce its price.

Until these 3 things are addressed, prices will continue to fall. Any union or cartel of players that somehow manages to raise the price will just encourage MORE people to sweat, thereby increasing the supply and increasing downward pressure on prices.
No the sweat market is not free. If it was a free and open market it would be used in everything.. TY That is all.:wise:
 

RedThothCrowley

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No the sweat market is not free. If it was a free and open market it would be used in everything.. TY That is all.:wise:
This is just plain idiotic. So, if gold is not used in every product (it's not in RL clearly), then the gold market is not a free market?

How about corn, pig bellies, oil, thing-a-ma-jigs?

You don't have the slightest idea about economics and free markets clearly. My suggestion is stop posting in every thread about whether the sweat market is fair or not.
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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danimal01

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The only way sweat prices could increase is due to these reasons:
-Mindforce suddenly allowed HP gains (read more people skilling and using mindforce)
-Prices for oil suddenly hit 150% MU making vehicle travel uneconomical versus teleporting (read more people teleporting and using mindforce)

Only two that come to mind.. but since those things will never happen any and all attempts to raise sweat prices are mute :)

~Danimal
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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Right now the only point of sweating is for skills.

LOL *hides in a corner*
 

Falagor

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Like creating the Hussk requiring 500k sweat? ;)
It was a try and too me it look like an empty gesture... how many Hussks have been summoned so far - 2 (seems 3rd is on the way)? Problem is that summoning Hussk needs another items that are way more expensive. And 500k sweat is gathered by comunity in like what - 2 days?

Like i sugested in some other thread - make other summoning possibilities that will require only sweat and will be instantiable with different amounts of sweat needed (i.e. something similar to free beacon that would use 10k sweat per enter - you could go solo or in a team - and with small boss at the end with possibility of looting item with small markup). There could be instances needing 1k, 5k, 10k, 50k, ... and i am sure more than few people would try it at least once.

For now summoning Hussk is no good - one person (or small group) sacrifices a lot of markup (items used are pure markup) and everyne has a chance of looting the goodies - this is implemented in wrong way. Of course killing Hussk in 12 people is something i can't imagine so basicly whole idea here simply dies. Smaller instantiable "mini-Hussks" would be better. Of course i am not saying to eliminate the Hussk - just add other ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
 

Draxar

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I see really nice ideas there! (along with crappy rhetoric but never mind)
The problem is that they are just ideas.. (The idea of low costing sweat instances is a nice idea for example) and I'm tired of waiting for MA to do it. Maybe it won't be thanks to me if sweat prices finally raise (it surely won't be) but I'll try, even if I'm being Utopian about it. (we are 3 at the moment)
And, even, maybe if complaints are filled, MA's gonna move faster ? We'll see..

I don't think that making sweat more difficult would bring more people to sweat. That's purely speculative, and I'm curious about the result.. IMO, even if more people sweat, it would lower the quantity of sweat gathered every day in the end, so it would help the sweat market. That's my idea, maybe I'm wrong, but I won't know it without trying it really, and for that, I need more support.

(thanks again for reading this thread and answering)
 

danimal01

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I see really nice ideas there! (along with crappy rhetoric but never mind)
The problem is that they are just ideas.. (The idea of low costing sweat instances is a nice idea for example) and I'm tired of waiting for MA to do it. Maybe it won't be thanks to me if sweat prices finally raise (it surely won't be) but I'll try, even if I'm being Utopian about it. (we are 3 at the moment)
And, even, maybe if complaints are filled, MA's gonna move faster ? We'll see..

I don't think that making sweat more difficult would bring more people to sweat. That's purely speculative, and I'm curious about the result.. IMO, even if more people sweat, it would lower the quantity of sweat gathered every day in the end, so it would help the sweat market. That's my idea, maybe I'm wrong, but I won't know it without trying it really, and for that, I need more support.

(thanks again for reading this thread and answering)
You, and many others, have tried to raise the prices of sweat per 1k units sold. This has proven to be a failure time and time again because for the simple fact that sweat is a FREE comodoty. Thus, MA does not place a cap on the amount that can be dropped. This means that any joe can sweat till their eyes fall out and there will always be an abundance of sweat no matter what.

If you really wanted to "corner" a market, which I suspect that you want to corner the sweat market. Then goto other items that are regulated such as HL8 or something..

~Danimal
 

Draxar

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If you really wanted to "corner" a market, which I suspect that you want to corner the sweat market. Then goto other items that are regulated such as HL8 or something..
No, I don't want to, and I simply can't...

as said before, sweating is free, and anybody can do it, everytime, everywhere. I think that what I want to do is "blocking" sweatcamps from time to time, principally Nea's place, at rush hours. I don't like Nea's place because : 1) It's owned by someone 2) sweating here is too easy, you just have to run 5 seconds after revival to start sweating again. I really think that 200K is gathered here every day, and IMO, that's too much.
I don't know if a simple math can be done on the ratio supply/demand by looking at the prices over the time, but I simply want to lower supply to make it match the demand, since it is the only thing I can do about that, as an avatar in the game. I repeat that, because I want to highlight that I don't want to corner anything, I don't even want to create a cartel, since it has proven to be impossible to do.
I just want 10 or 20 motivated people, with 1hour to spend every two days or so, and who want to try to raise the sweat price.
 

danimal01

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No, I don't want to, and I simply can't...

as said before, sweating is free, and anybody can do it, everytime, everywhere. I think that what I want to do is "blocking" sweatcamps from time to time, principally Nea's place, at rush hours. I don't like Nea's place because : 1) It's owned by someone 2) sweating here is too easy, you just have to run 5 seconds after revival to start sweating again. I really think that 200K is gathered here every day, and IMO, that's too much.
I don't know if a simple math can be done on the ratio supply/demand by looking at the prices over the time, but I simply want to lower supply to make it match the demand, since it is the only thing I can do about that, as an avatar in the game. I repeat that, because I want to highlight that I don't want to corner anything, I don't even want to create a cartel, since it has proven to be impossible to do.
I just want 10 or 20 motivated people, with 1hour to spend every two days or so, and who want to try to raise the sweat price.
What you say suggests that you do indeed want to "corner" the sweat market, because in order to effectively raise the prices of sweat you must corner all aspects of sweat. This is impossible to do since there are many and I do emphasise many freeloaders that sit and sweat all day; and won't hesitate to devalue the prices of sweat to make a quick buck. If you read my two suggestions for a "what-if" scenario, this will be the only way that sweat prices would be able to increase. Other than that, your attempts are and will result in failure..

I do not want to discourage you, however, it has been tried time and time again with each result the same..

~Danimal
 

MIND

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you sweat because of the awesome skill you get that you cant chip out :wise:
 

wizzszz

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Not to forget the army of people who just sweat for the fun of it (socializing, skills, get to level 100 in sweat gathererer) - they alone could probably cover any demand...

And i am quite sure you won't stop a sweater level 30 with a daikiba mobtrain... that guy is probably level 30 evader, too, and owns a nice grenade launcher that can kill 15 daikiba at once.

:yup:



.
 

Draxar

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And i am quite sure you won't stop a sweater level 30 with a daikiba mobtrain... that guy is probably level 30 evader, too, and owns a nice grenade launcher that can kill 15 daikiba at once.

:yup:


.
That's a good point ! I forgot to insist on this : I never talked about "mob train", and this is not my goal at all (not to mention there is no daikiba in Nea's Place) ; I won't speak of it accurately here, because I don't want to debate it, but what "we" do is not preventing people from sweating, just make it harder to sweat AFK.
 

Neil Stockton

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I don't think removing afk/auto sweating would help. The problem is that sweating is not a bad activity for newbies, and if they can't do it semi-afk, they also can't chat much. If they can't chat, they can't learn from others and since sweating isn't really about the peds, it's about skills and learning, that would really only hurt the newbies, IMO.
 

mastermesh

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No, I don't want to, and I simply can't...

as said before, sweating is free, and anybody can do it, everytime, everywhere. I think that what I want to do is "blocking" sweatcamps from time to time, principally Nea's place, at rush hours. I don't like Nea's place because : 1) It's owned by someone 2)
Don't like it, buy it yourself... Don't like it because it's owned by someone -- guess what, someone owns every single corner of the virtual universe, even if the owner isn't a participant... As far as Neas goes, I hear that Lindamin district is actually more popular sweating hole than Neas. You might try visiting there someday.
 

MIND

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Because we dont spend our work money into a money sink.
and you thhink ita better to sweat for 20 hours than to pick up an extra job for 2-3 hrs a day and make more money,
50% to the game 50% to whatever you want
 

Aliana

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(
This is difficult to attend alone, and this is where I need motivated people to join my cause. The main principle is to flood easy-sweat spots with mobs, and this works, it lowers considerably the amount of sweat gathered by hour!
The above statement from your OP is easily interpreted as "mob trains". Denying it after the fact does not discount this without explaining exactly how you mean to "flood easy-sweat spots with mobs" without mob trains.

It still stands that this activity displays the intention of interfering with another by considerably lowering the amount of sweat gathered by the hour and therefore could be a bannable offense.

Hugs,
Aliana
 

RickEngland

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Hey sweaters.

You know you can have tons of very cheap fun with rookie guns and rookie ammo from new arrivals section in trade terminal. Go and have a look at those items in trade terminal, try it out.

I ran a team of 12 people a few days ago and we could take down Atrox with new arrival rifles, there really is no need for long term sweating, unless you do it from a social point of view (as already mentioned).

Now before you get all defensive I've done some sweating over the years and over level 30 myself. So I know what it's like to be at Neas days on end.

but there is another way, you would really get more out of EU, with just a few dollars deposited.

TRY IT!!

Good luck

Rick (Level 63 Laser Sniper).
 

lyosha

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Because we dont spend our work money into a money sink.
your personal time is less important than money? really?!?

So lets say you wanted to have a measly 1kped to go blow on migration mobs and have yourself a nice week or 2 of fun... you could work an extra hour or 3 of overtime or SPEND 2.28 YEARS SWEATING EVERY GOD DAMN DAY FOR 12hrs PER DAY.

how does your life become so meaningless that it becomes OK to waste it away acquiring some virtual currency.

to call it a money sink when your sinking your LIFE into it..... just shows how intelligent you are =)
 

silentkill234

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your personal time is less important than money? really?!?

So lets say you wanted to have a measly 1kped to go blow on migration mobs and have yourself a nice week or 2 of fun... you could work an extra hour or 3 of overtime or SPEND 2.28 YEARS SWEATING EVERY GOD DAMN DAY FOR 12hrs PER DAY.

how does your life become so meaningless that it becomes OK to waste it away acquiring some virtual currency.

to call it a money sink when your sinking your LIFE into it..... just shows how intelligent you are =)
i've made 50 ped in 4 days and havent deposited anything. I don't need to deposit my wallet into this game just to play the damn game. When I go into entropia I don't SINK MY LIFE into it. And no I did not sweat that 50 ped, if you thought I was talking about pure sweating then that's a different story.

Thanks.
 

Farmer Smurf

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Sweat prices are plummeting. Since a long time now, and it will continue this way if nothing is done.
Exactly as Mindark desires, everything is going according to their plan.

500 sweat/hour=10cents/hour. You wouldn't go to work for 10cents/hour, so why the hell waste your time sweating for 10 cents and hour? I just don't understand it, why people even bother to sweat. 1 hour at min wage is 95ped, so really, why waste 95hours to make the same?
Simple, not every sweater sweats for "profit", or to make money...I know I don't. (the money just is not there anymore, the very day that Mindark changed all Mind essence to come from terminal (except for teleport). the price started falling fast.

Also you seem to relate sweating to work - sweating is not work sweating is sitting around pushing buttons, the hardest part of sweating is keeping cheeto stains off the keyboard.

I sweat because its fun, its easy, I can do it while watching tv, or taking a shower. its just something to do between deposits. and any ped that might come from it is simply a bonus.

So you would rather work longer to make less? Some how I just don't understand how that is enjoyment. A 4 hour shift at min wage=380ped, it would take 9 1/2 work weeks to make that sweating. So you could work 1 min wage 4 hour shift a week as an extra job, and depo the money from it. Or you can spend 2 1/4 months to make enough for a few hours entertainment. I just don't get why people would put so much effort into something when their is a much easier way to do it.
:)
Again that is because you see the motivation behind sweating to be..."to make money/ped" and hardly anyone sweats to get rich lol. Its for the awesome Sweat gather skill, that you can not chip in, only one way to get it..get it? the evade is nice too. mostly though its just something free to do...I would totally still sweat if sweat never sold for anything (oh wait that's how it is already)

If you actually want to make any money sweating, I suggest you don't sweat in groups, rather you sweat solo and chip out and sell the skills. far more valuable than sweat, try sweating dodge mobs..I had good luck with Dasp on cnd YMMV
 
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Ludvig|MindArk

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the very day that Mindark changed all Mind essence to come from terminal (except for teleport). the price started falling fast.[/I]
That change actually had very little effect on the price of sweat compared to some other changes and the overall decline in price (based on my observation over the 7 years I have been playing).
 

Farmer Smurf

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yeah we could talk all day about the things that led to it, server border sweating etc..just saying that very day I saw it drop from 5ped/k and it has not stopped falling since then...ofc it was higher than that at one point but I digress.
 

Zanzibarjones

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Ok, whew I have been waiting to jump into this one.

1) You will NEVER, and I put emphasis on the word 'NEVER', control the price of sweat. You are trying to compare real world economics to a virtual, fake, world. And there are 2 reasons why it will never work:
a.) MA controls the whole game. End of story.
b.) Sweat is unlimited.

There is consumer market here in the real world, there is no real consumer market in EU. Every last bit of everything in game is set and controlled by MA. If you think otherwise, than you are delusional. You can argue that Auction markups are consumer driven, but they aren't. the price fluctuates with what items are available, manufactured, or introduced as new, by..... drum roll.... MA.

And with Sweat being unlimited, and ideas of controlling or manipulating the price of flow of sweat is also delusional. Even if you stop the flow of sweat from one area, there are other areas to sweat at.

You are just killing the people who extract the sweat in that area, you are not actually stopping the production or flow of sweat. So the whole process becomes pointless. An exercise in futility.

But here are some thoughts on ways MA can change up sweating to help facilitate an increase in demand for sweat (hence cost of sweat goes up), individually of course, not all of them.

1) Bring back the sweat cap

2) Introduce a sweat only mob where no skills are gained at all. No skills for sweating, not for being killed (Evade) etc.
I think that would cause a lot of Ubers to not want to sweat. To them time is money. But with the way things are now, you can sweat for hours and not get bored (Ok well bored but worth it) because you gain skills along with getting sweat. Take away the skill gains, and I think people would think seriously before doing it for long periods of time.

3) Contain sweat to one planet

4) Introduce craftible (craftable??) items that require high amounts of sweat per click. 100 or more let's say.

5) Take away the autouse function for the VSE Tool. People would get sick of clicking and would not want to do it for hours upon hours.

MA tried by introducing Welding Wire and a few other BPs that require sweat, but the BPs are plentiful. And small amounts of welding wire, 5 ped let's say, last for a good long while. Which helped decrease the demand for sweat.

Just my 2 cents.
 

starcollector

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Entropia Universe : Play this game for fun in it not for the money....

or Entropia Universe - Paid to Play a Game?

I like the first option....I am a sweater too ...sometimes get boring in this game when I am sweating, but I have fun when I am with hunters healing them...or going in team hunting, etc... anyway it is about how lucky you are in this game,and to learn how to play this game... I hope tonight somebody it will buy my sweat at a good price... and don't think MA crashed economy in this game some of resselers in atemp to make peds for themselfs, not to help the noobs
 

Draxar

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Ok, whew I have been waiting to jump into this one.

You will NEVER, and I put emphasis on the word 'NEVER', control the price of sweat.
Hi, thank you for your long post. I quote this sentence, because answering to that will answer to the entire post. For what I can see now, having done what I do since more than a week :

-Keeping people from autosweating makes sweat more boring (IMO, boring as it should be)
-When AFKers are bored and can't autosweat, they go away and do something else (less sweat gathered)
-Since we don't do that all the time at Nea's Place, it's still, for now, THE sweating place to be, even if sometimes, sweating is disturbed for 2 hours straight (disturbed=less than half sweat gathered than usual)

I don't think that I'm going to CONTROL anything, and I put emphasis on the word "control"... but as every other avatar in the game, by my actions, I can impact on sweat prices, or on anything else.

--end of personal answer!--

It's still on a very little scale, since we are still only 3 and don't spend a lot of time doing this, but, because less sweat is actually gathered : For now, this is working. Well, for seeing anything impact on the price, well.. we must have to wait for a little time.

I appreciate all the ideas proposed by many of you, but since it is not something we can actually DO, I won't answer on these matters: MA will do what they want to.

Just a little update about the "you will be banned" thing : From what I see, for now, I haven't been banned, and I come almost everyday. 3 or 4 people said that they have reported me, and I've heard nothing from MA nor from these people since then. (EDIT : I haven't been banned, and I haven't been warned either !)

so.. -> Feel free to join me if you are curious about the result of that little project. I still need help, 20minutes of your time, from time to time..

thanks
 
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