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Help: Impact on returns when converting looted Shrapnel and keep going

Glenden

Glenden

Old
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
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53
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Glenden Sassy Star
Hello All,

I was wondering if converting looted shrapnel and keep hunting will end up maximizing the potential loss or profit.

Because every time I keep the hunt going by converting shrapnel to ammo (until there is no shrapnel left) my returns end up in the 60% to 70% range.

For ex,

Hunt Duration = 1 hr
Mob = Argonaut
Weapon1 (efficiency): 63.9% (kallous 5 CDF + A104)
Weapon2 (efficiency): 55.8% (kallous 5 CDF)
Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 10.09 PED
Armor/FAP decay: 1.14 PED (Emine)
Total ammo spent: 70 PED
Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 81.23 PED

During the hunt, the shrapnels were converted about 5 times (35 PED shrapnel, 20 PED shrapnel, 10 PED shrapnel, 5 PED shrapnel, 2 PED Shrapnel).
PED Cycled: 142 PED

Globals: 0
Item looted - Nil
Stackables: 47 PED
Net returns (w/mu): 49.35 (~60%)


Am I doing the calculations wrong or the returns are really bad when cycling shrapnel?
 
you need count all your return even shrap separate of what is resting in your end at the end. as you use what you gain. it s logic you feel have less
 
your return does not go down, your calculation is changing. you actually cycling much more while converting it.

example:
you gain 900p shrapnel during 1000p run. it's 90% return
you convert it to 909p ammo and get back 818p shrapnel. it looks like your return is now 81%, but actually, you cycled 1909p and actual return is still ~90%

if you keep doing so until you have 0 shrapnel left, does it mean that the return is 0%? even though you have cycled 10k+? no, it's still 90%
 
Glenden said:
Hello All,

I was wondering if converting looted shrapnel and keep hunting will end up maximizing the potential loss or profit.

Because every time I keep the hunt going by converting shrapnel to ammo (until there is no shrapnel left) my returns end up in the 60% to 70% range.

For ex,

Hunt Duration = 1 hr
Mob = Argonaut
Weapon1 (efficiency): 63.9% (kallous 5 CDF + A104)
Weapon2 (efficiency): 55.8% (kallous 5 CDF)
Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 10.09 PED
Armor/FAP decay: 1.14 PED (Emine)
Total ammo spent: 70 PED
Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 81.23 PED

During the hunt, the shrapnels were converted about 5 times (35 PED shrapnel, 20 PED shrapnel, 10 PED shrapnel, 5 PED shrapnel, 2 PED Shrapnel).
PED Cycled: 142 PED

Globals: 0
Item looted - Nil
Stackables: 47 PED
Net returns (w/mu): 49.35 (~60%)


Am I doing the calculations wrong or the returns are really bad when cycling shrapnel?
Click to expand...

Yes, you calculate wrong.
70p base ammo, 35p convert, 20p convert, 10p convert, 5p convert, 2p convert, 142p total ammo cycled.
+11,23p from decay and defense cost.

Total cycled was 153.23p
Loot was 47p stackable, +35p shrap, +20p shrap, +10p shrap, +5p shrap, +2p shrap, total 119p
still just 77%, but yes, with such a small sample, it is often happen.
im too doing similar smaller hutns, 1 day it is minus, other day it is plus a few peds.
 
What happens is you are cycling more, your return stays the same on average. For the sake of argument, let's imagine your setup is a cdf gun and no amp; and you shoot mobs that only loot shrapnel.

Buy 500 PED Laser Ammo
Shoot 500 PED Laser Ammo
Your loot is 450 PED Shrapnel

-- At this point you have cycled 500 PED, and your tt return is ~90% (450 / 500).

Now you convert your 450 PED Shrapnel into Uni Ammo
Shoot 454,5 PED Universal Ammo
Your loot is 409 PED Shrapnel

-- At this point you have cycled 954.5 (500 + 454,5), and your tt return is still ~90% ( (450+409) / (500+454,5) ).

The problem is people think your return is (what you end with) 409 / 500 (what your start with) ~ 82%, and this is simply not true.
 
I have personally always suspected that when there is a 'break' in the cycle i.e when you run out of ammo and have to buy more, or when you stop to convert shrapnel to ammo, then this impacts the 'run' potential and momentum.

Obviously, I can't back that up with evidence, but it's my hunch.

I have been keeping a log which documents the 'size' of my hunting runs vs. the net returns. You can clearly see that as the size of the run increases, so does the net return. This is why I always try to maximise the size of my hunting run (in my case about 800ped before decay gets me) so as to ensure the highest chance of net-positive returns.
 
ah, makes sense. Thank you @Hego Damask, @Angel O2 Mercer and @allarom
Since I don't normally cycle shrapnel in a single run, I got confused with the calculations.

@iulrorck , true but in this case, there was no shrapnel left (0.03 PED) at the end and since my calculation method was wrong fundamentally when it comes to the Shrapnel cycling method. So yeah I have to redo the spreadsheet for this method of hunting and add in the shrapnel in a different way to account for the 101%.

@Lovely Bella : Thank you. But I was worried about the single runs showing a lot of difference in return when compared to no cycling Shrapnels in the single run and as pointed out by others, the calc was wrong and also the sample size. Will fix the calc first and then work on the sample size :)
 
Mitchymoo said:
I have personally always suspected that when there is a 'break' in the cycle i.e when you run out of ammo and have to buy more, or when you stop to convert shrapnel to ammo, then this impacts the 'run' potential and momentum.

Obviously, I can't back that up with evidence, but it's my hunch.

I have been keeping a log which documents the 'size' of my hunting runs vs. the net returns. You can clearly see that as the size of the run increases, so does the net return. This is why I always try to maximise the size of my hunting run (in my case about 800ped before decay gets me) so as to ensure the highest chance of net-positive returns.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I probably will test it out later. I too heard similar things in other forums and discord channels but yeah its time to do some testing on my own :D
 
Glenden said:
Interesting, I probably will test it out later. I too heard similar things in other forums and discord channels but yeah its time to do some testing on my own :D
Click to expand...

Let me know how it turns out. I'd be interested to see if your data corroborates mine.
 
Mitchymoo said:
I have personally always suspected that when there is a 'break' in the cycle i.e when you run out of ammo and have to buy more, or when you stop to convert shrapnel to ammo, then this impacts the 'run' potential and momentum.

Obviously, I can't back that up with evidence, but it's my hunch.
Click to expand...

it's nothing more than the brain's ability to remember things that stands out a bit more :D
 
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