Suggestion: Integrate Limited Armor and Plates Into the Economy More.

lethal

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Something I think would benefit the economy is if there were more mobs that needed heavier armors. The durability on plates and armor would need to be tweaked to make them last a lot longer based on the damage taken, but adding some really fast and fairly hard hitting mobs along with stronger plates and armor could give a nice boost to the economy. Something like mobs that do 200 max damage of one type, but hit 3 times per second. Then with this have armor and plates that go up to 90 protections, but only limited versions that would use multi-tier sub components that would burn a lot of hunting loot in the process of crafting them, opening up some markup windows for hunters. I think a lot of hunters are getting to the point where there are fewer and fewer limited armor items needed, and this is hurting the economy in the same way that less demand for armatrix weapons has been. Having these strong armor options along with making armor cheaper for prolonged use could also level the playing field a bit for lower level hunters at the cost of having to pay markup.

One final note is that I think making armor and plates last longer would even bolster the economy by its self without any other changes. Many people are driven away from using limited plates and armor because they're too expensive for how little of cycle they last for, but in many cases crafted plates and armors can't go much lower due to the markup required and tt loss from making them. If they lasted longer, then they would be more appealing to hard grinders and more often be a justifiable purchase where the markup cost matches the benefits.
 
Something I think would benefit the economy is if there were more mobs that needed heavier armors. The durability on plates and armor would need to be tweaked to make them last a lot longer based on the damage taken, but adding some really fast and fairly hard hitting mobs along with stronger plates and armor could give a nice boost to the economy. Something like mobs that do 200 max damage of one type, but hit 3 times per second.

I feel this is the direction in which the game is going already. Subject SH-30 and the new Tezla wave event are good examples of this. Most people who want to hunt Subject SH-30 would have to get AP-54 Acid to deal with the swamp gas. And I think for the new Tezlas, most people have to get AP-42 or above Electric to deal with it.

So I think it's pretty clear that there will be more such mobs going forward. with like you say, very high damage of one type.

Also I think that the design of many new armors recently promotes the use of high level AP plates, for example Titan has no Cut, DSEC armor is practically unusable without any plates on it, etc...

Then with this have armor and plates that go up to 90 protections, but only limited versions that would use multi-tier sub components that would burn a lot of hunting loot in the process of crafting them, opening up some markup windows for hunters. I think a lot of hunters are getting to the point where there are fewer and fewer limited armor items needed...

Well I think we have Life-Steal mostly to thank for that, as well as Restoration chips, not to mention all the crazy dps buffs that are all over the place now, I'm talking about faster reload, crit chance and increased crit damage buffs. All these things combine to making armor much less important today then it was just 3 years ago...

But you assume that better/bigger armor plates would be crafted and I have to say, based on recent game developments, I doubt that. It suddenly became very clear to me recently that MA considers Crafting to be a "support" profession, not it's own full-fledged profession with it's own path and end-game. I think MA looks at Crafting as something that Professional Hunters can "access" in addition to their main path, in order to fully utilize the fruits of their labor (their loot and mission rewards), in order to generate more revenue for themselves, and support their Hunting activities.

If you just look at skill requirements for example for crafting the new Perfected 6A/5B, it makes you wonder doesn't it? Why so low? Probably so that anyone can do it or easily get to the point that they can do it (with Armor Gizmos) if they really want to do it. 5B Perfected could/should have been something that only a high-end Crafter can do, but instead they put it within reach of practically anyone. It's clear that it's a release for Hunters, not Crafters.

All the best stuff that has been released lately has been given directly to Hunters either as a drop or mission reward. There hasn't been anything of any real significance released for Pro Crafters since AP Plates and ArMatrix, which is about 5-6 years ago now. Yes there was Aegis and Apocalypse from NI but these are not really "game-changing" items; there are merely NI versions of Calypso's Hermes and Angel, and since those are looted, it would be impossible for a Crafted armor such as Aegis to compete with other looted options in the current Crafting system.

So now we're starting to see veteran Crafters such as Auktuma and Buzz just focus on hunting to the point of not even bothering with Crafting at all anymore (except for Gold Rush, I know Auk participated in that, but only for the prizes).

The other reason I say Crafting is now just a "support" profession in MA's mind is because of the new Spina Armor BPs; #1. they are given straight to the Hunters now as a reward for killing the Queen, #2. practically all of the ingredients are hunting loot... (there is Basic Sheet Metal, which is easy for anyone to do, and there is Fused Bioplating which is Crafted, but again, using mostly just hunting loot).

So the "circular" economy we used to have is becoming more and more lopsided. Actually the design of this new stuff is more like: something for the Hunter to craft for him/herself and his hunting buddies, leaving Crafters and Miners pretty much completely out of it.

The only hope I have left for Crafting at this point is that MA will release Crafted ArMatrix MindForce chips soon, aside from that, I don't really see anything of major interest coming for Crafters in the short-to-medium term.

One final note is that I think making armor and plates last longer would even bolster the economy by its self without any other changes. Many people are driven away from using limited plates and armor because they're too expensive for how little of cycle they last for, but in many cases crafted plates and armors can't go much lower due to the markup required and tt loss from making them. If they lasted longer, then they would be more appealing to hard grinders and more often be a justifiable purchase where the markup cost matches the benefits.

I see your point about the re-balancing and I do somewhat agree, although I don't think it really would make that much of a difference. The mu that people have to pay for as part of their input costs just becomes part of the mu generated through their gaming activity. If they really need the plate and need to buy it, and it's expensive, then they will just be less wasteful with it and make the most profitable use they can of it.

The biggest problem with getting people to use limited is breaking the obsession that some people have about not using it; it borders on the psychotic sometimes. I have shown the math before and it's baffling how some people are willing to lock up thousands of dollars just to save 2 pec/hour. In many cases they risk losing a lot more then that when they sell the items if the value has gone down over time, but most people are just refusing to consider it, they say things like "I will never use limited gear..."

And since we're on the topic of re-balancing, I think the biggest problem with crafting now is the compounded effects of crafted components going into crafting more components, especially with non-SIB blueprints that eat up 10% with each step (not counting mu of mats)... This is what adds a lot of cost to making things right now. And the only solution I could ever come up with that would solve that, and other issues, is better Crafting machines such as the Omegaton Craftmeister Mk.1 which can use multiple QR 100 BPs to make more efficient use of high-mu mats. With a machine like that, ArMatrix and AP plates could be made for quite a bit cheaper.

And on the re-blancing, I'm starting to think that Gizmo crafting is dropping too many BPs, many of which are fast becoming worthless. But Maybe it's a good thing, maybe it will encourage more hunters to make their own stuff, which is kind of why I opened up a Blueprint shop recently, but this will again hurt crafters even more...

Anyway, I think what you're saying is "make plates bigger/better, and cheaper, and make mobs that deal higher damage, so we can craft and sell more plates". I think that view is too simplistic and doesn't take into consideration how MA is developing the game atm.

If there is going to be some bigger AP plates, like for example AP-75, AP-85 and AP-95, I bet you these would just be given directly to the hunters, one way or another, for them to make and use or sell. P.S. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just disappointed a bit after having invested so much time and effort into skilling the crafting profession...
 
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Something I think would benefit the economy is if there were more mobs that needed heavier armors.
so im not a hunting expert yet

but i have noticed that when hunting daspletors i need heavier armor than when im hunting snablesnots

again not an expert so more data is needed but i do believe the game already has that
 
the "circular" economy we used to have is becoming more and more lopsided. Actually the design of this new stuff is more like: something for the Hunter to craft for him/herself and his hunting buddies, leaving Crafters and Miners pretty much completely out of it
This is absurdly shortsighted.

As a participant, you're not pigeon holed into one profession, you're meant to build your character out and if you do go hard in one direction you're then forced to use the market to fill the gaps. Having the ability to acquire the hunting, mining and crafting materials yourself to then craft a final product is the epitome of how the game cycle is designed.

That very cycle is unbalanced right now because of Entropy. The developers just release things and don't clean it up and the system slowly devolved into chaos... Think of things like needing Dunkel for some bs craft that makes a useless item. But heh, you're playing a game called Entropia Universe. I think that it was aptly named as a sort of scapegoat for the developers to abdicate the need for balance. They can just do whatever they want and not really give a shit. "Ah well, it's Entropia afterall" :)
 
This is absurdly shortsighted.

As a participant, you're not pigeon holed into one profession, you're meant to build your character out and if you do go hard in one direction you're then forced to use the market to fill the gaps. Having the ability to acquire the hunting, mining and crafting materials yourself to then craft a final product is the epitome of how the game cycle is designed.

That very cycle is unbalanced right now because of Entropy. The developers just release things and don't clean it up and the system slowly devolved into chaos... Think of things like needing Dunkel for some bs craft that makes a useless item. But heh, you're playing a game called Entropia Universe. I think that it was aptly named as a sort of scapegoat for the developers to abdicate the need for balance. They can just do whatever they want and not really give a shit. "Ah well, it's Entropia afterall" :)

I hope you are right and MA will make crafting relevant again later
 
I feel this is the direction in which the game is going already. Subject SH-30 and the new Tezla wave event are good examples of this. Most people who want to hunt Subject SH-30 would have to get AP-54 Acid to deal with the swamp gas. And I think for the new Tezlas, most people have to get AP-42 or above Electric to deal with it.
I agree that they were going in that direction in some instances, and from what I experienced and saw the economy has benefitted on multiple levels since these mobs were introduced. The problem with these mobs is that a lot of the cycle that happens on them at this point comes from people who have found ways to not use anything limited while still consistently grinding them, which causes a lot of the desired items from them to reduce in markup and deters anyone still using limited from grinding them as much long term.

About the perfected 5b and the direction of hunters being able to do everything themselves, I see this as a problem because not needing to interact with anyone else in the economy is exactly how markup goes down for everyone including the player doing everything themselves. At the point everyone does everything themselves, the markup is 100% on anything and the economy is actually gone. Aside from needing extra bankroll to be able to do everything yourself, one of the only gateways that keeps this from happening is the time needed to craft sub components, but many players are leaning more towards playing in a vacuum which has exponentially more negative effects on the economy the more these "all in one" players are producing markup without buying any markup.
Anyway, I think what you're saying is "make plates bigger/better, and cheaper, and make mobs that deal higher damage, so we can craft and sell more plates". I think that view is too simplistic and doesn't take into consideration how MA is developing the game atm.
My suggestion isn't to make mobs that hit harder necessarily, it's to make mobs that hit in a way that levels the playing field to where even those with top level healing will almost definitely need some form of limited armor or plates to kill the mob, albeit less. I think as you said, the professions are becoming more lopsided between each other. But also within the hunting profession things are becomming too lopsided as well. There isn't limited gear that can even compete with high end unlimited gear even if it had no markup. Unlimited gear should have the advantage of no markup and limited gear should have the advantage of better capability at the cost of having to buy from other players at markup including other hunters with unlimited gear.

That's why my suggestion is very fast hitting mobs that do single type damage around a max of 200 along with stronger plates that have more durability. If a mob hits say 3 attacks per second, then an uber with 90 of the protection still would struggle to outheal the damage using a perfected hedoc mayhem. However, someone with 180 total of the protection using limited gear would take very little damage and be able to heal through it with mid level healing. People with gear would still have the huge advantage of being able to do it with say, an ap 54 plate instead of needing AP 100 for example ( or a strong new armor along with slightly stronger new plates), but everyone who wants to kill the mob would need to at the very least have something limited to help them making economy participation guaranteed on these specific mobs.

Even if crafting wasn't involved at all, if say spina royal could now drop the armor with 150 protect or something for this new mob and the new fast/hard hitting mob had very desirable items, then it would be a boon to the economy. But having things circular to where professions rely on each other almost always benefits the economy more.
 
so im not a hunting expert yet

but i have noticed that when hunting daspletors i need heavier armor than when im hunting snablesnots

again not an expert so more data is needed but i do believe the game already has that
Based on you quoting the first sentence and making a sarcastic comment that implies I'm saying something miles away from what I suggested, I'm guessing you actually only read the first sentence.

I'm a masochist for even responding to what I sincerely hope is you trolling.
 
I'm a masochist for even responding to what I sincerely hope is you trolling.
i could say the exact same thing about your suggestion

Many people are driven away from using limited plates and armor because they're too expensive for how little of cycle they last for, but in many cases crafted plates and armors can't go much lower due to the markup required and tt loss from making them
exactly, so why add more of them. if they lasted longer, they would be pricier (either in TT or in markup)
 
My suggestion isn't to make mobs that hit harder necessarily, it's to make mobs that hit in a way that levels the playing field to where even those with top level healing will almost definitely need some form of limited armor or plates to kill the mob, albeit less. I think as you said, the professions are becoming more lopsided between each other. But also within the hunting profession things are becomming too lopsided as well. There isn't limited gear that can even compete with high end unlimited gear even if it had no markup. Unlimited gear should have the advantage of no markup and limited gear should have the advantage of better capability at the cost of having to buy from other players at markup including other hunters with unlimited gear.

Yes, agreed

That's why my suggestion is very fast hitting mobs that do single type damage around a max of 200 along with stronger plates that have more durability. If a mob hits say 3 attacks per second, then an uber with 90 of the protection still would struggle to outheal the damage using a perfected hedoc mayhem. However, someone with 180 total of the protection using limited gear would take very little damage and be able to heal through it with mid level healing. People with gear would still have the huge advantage of being able to do it with say, an ap 54 plate instead of needing AP 100 for example ( or a strong new armor along with slightly stronger new plates), but everyone who wants to kill the mob would need to at the very least have something limited to help them making economy participation guaranteed on these specific mobs.

Yep, totally agree
 
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