Investments within a Banana Republic

Smartass

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A financial investment is the purchase of an asset or item with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future and be sold at the higher price.
With each financials investments risks are involved which might result in less income than anticipated for. In real life goverment legislation should always be considered a risk factor.
In politcally stable countries, the goverment actions are well predictable and the risks imposed by the goverment are relatively low. In contrast to the so called Banana republics, where the politco-economic oligarchy controls the primary sector productions and thereby exploits the country's economy. Investments done in these type of countries generally are considered high.

Within Entropia Universe, Mindark should be considered as the goverment. How would we classify this EU goverment? Is the EU goverment predictable?

A long history of introduced VU's by our goverment, Mindark, resulted in long track record of smaller and bigger surprises to individual or larger groups of investors of items, property or skills.
Think about recent examples like hangars & ships, taming, LA's, introduction of certain items.
Based upon this track record of unpredictable changes introduced by MA which impacted many players by surprise, the Entropia goverment should up to now be classified as a banana republic.

What does this mean?
The nature of the game (RCE), the actions performed by certain departments of the goverment (balancing team, planet partners), the environment we play in should be valued from the perspective of being part of a banana republic and should define each of the actions we take within this game and invest in. Current and future investments...
However this should not withold you doing certain investments in this game, as long as the risk associated by MA's actions are properly assessed and can be mitigated if possible. Think also on existing investments which a lot of people currently value as safe (e.g. CLD, certain FAP's)....What if....

Unfortunately many people either did not recognize or under-estimate or simply deny the role of mindark on their investments (see the many complaints and whining threads on these forums about des-investments a lot of people suffered due to actions taken by MA), even when Mindark publicly warned us players with this famous quote:

"EU is dynamic!"
 
This isn't a nation. MA isn't a government. This is a game. We all volunteer to play or not. I do not need a passport to leave. They have no representative at the United Nations.

BTW, who are you? What's your ingame name?
 
This isn't a nation. MA isn't a government. This is a game. We all volunteer to play or not. I do not need a passport to leave. They have no representative at the United Nations.

BTW, who are you? What's your ingame name?

What's with the angry tone? It's like you didn't read what he said and assumed he wanted money. :rolleyes:
 
No offense but isn't it MA who wants us to think of EU not as a "game" but as an independent "virtual universe"? I'm not saying I do, in fact I think that's overly idealistic. But it's what they advertise.

Ultimately for a healthier EU experience I think it's better to think of it as a game and not to look at every purchase as an "investment". The only clear "investment" in EU imo is CLDs. You're directly investing in the success of Calypso. Everything else is too "dynamic" to predict :lolup:
 
What's with the angry tone? It's like you didn't read what he said and assumed he wanted money. :rolleyes:

No, he's not asking for money. He's trying to imply MA has some governmental legal obligation to keep investments as good as possible. They don't. And he's not the first one to attempt to make this comparison of MA = Gov't and it is always wrong. It's always used as an attack on MA when they lose money ingame. I can't recall anyone who regulay profits trying to say MA is a government.

What MA has (as a business) is a huge self-interest in pleasing their customers. When they make huge mistakes like have been mentioned again and again, they lose more and more of their player base. They make financial decisions such as "Well, not working on this part of the game will only lose us an estimated X players. Less than the amount of money/time we'd have to invest in building it." However, they fail to see the incremental increase of issue upon issue and their overall exponential impact on their player base. Had they done certain things differently, this game could have had 4 times the players it does now.

What also upsets me about the OP is that it is clearly not a new player, and I have reason to believe this account was made just for trolling. So I'm giving him a chance to prove me wrong. (Which they might try to do by making a new ava, then having me meet that one.)

No offense but isn't it MA who wants us to think of EU not as a "game" but as an independent "virtual universe"?

They can market themselves as whatever they wish. It doesn't change the fact that they are a G.A.M.E. company.
 
A financial investment is the purchase of an asset or item with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future and be sold at the higher price.
With each financials investments risks are involved which might result in less income than anticipated for. In real life goverment legislation should always be considered a risk factor.
In politcally stable countries, the goverment actions are well predictable and the risks imposed by the goverment are relatively low. In contrast to the so called Banana republics, where the politco-economic oligarchy controls the primary sector productions and thereby exploits the country's economy. Investments done in these type of countries generally are considered high.

Within Entropia Universe, Mindark should be considered as the goverment. How would we classify this EU goverment? Is the EU goverment predictable?
...
The comparison holds, imo.
In the first many years of Entropias existence, I would classify MA as predictable government. Or more precisely, MA made great effort to protect the players investments, which helped ensure that the price of rare uber gear, rose to insane levels.

But at some point (around the time they introduces L-gear?), they abandoned that strategy. It seemed very deliberate and carefully planned imo. They probably even made risk analysis and everything. I hope they did, because it was a major decision, and I was very surprised actually.

I still think MA is predictable. But I suppose that's not the question you're really asking.
Investing is much more risky now than it was in the old days.
MA is predictable: they *might* do something that makes your potential investment lose a lot of value. If it fits into their plans, they won't stop because it might hurt someones investment. That risk should be taken into consideration before you invest.


This isn't a nation. MA isn't a government. This is a game. We all volunteer to play or not. I do not need a passport to leave. They have no representative at the United Nations.

BTW, who are you? What's your ingame name?
Huh :scratch2:
What's up with you today?
(I think you misunderstood the OP?)
 
He's trying to imply MA has some governmental legal obligation to keep investments as good as possible. They don't...What MA has (as a business) is a huge self-interest in pleasing their customers.

...You are patently incorrect in your position here IMO...MA has marketed this GAME as a RCE(real cash economy)...you cant have it both ways...i.e. 'its a RCE' AND 'we have no responsibility to safeguard your deposit values and 'investments''...that would be ludicrous...no legitimate government that I am aware of has a LEGAL obligation to preserve investment values either...now that doesnt stop them from doing it...but it typically leads to catastrophes vis-a-vis artificial economic bubbles...MA does have a responsibility to maintain value as best they can and until they realize this and MATURE they will continue to have troubles...

..no comment on OP trolling or not trolling or new ava or old ava...irrelevant...

Brick
 
In a banana republic, if you don't like the government you can hand out AK47s to your friends, seize the presidential palace and eat the president, officially becoming the new one. Can't see how that would work here.
 
Indeed. I heard MA HQ is surrounded by automated gun turrets ;(
 
It's all a case of balance. MA are in a difficult position and have many factors to consider e.g. in game investments, their own profit, improving the game with new features etc

Overall they are predictable to some extent especially if you keep your eyes peeled and analyse various bits of information from in game to planet partner interviews etc. Furthermore if you try and understand their mindset which not many on here are willing to do. For example people complain about lack of communication but looking at all the evidence there is clear case for them to actually not communicate because their plans can and do change. Take for example their early days they said they were interested in vehicles and they would be in game. It took a long long time for vehicles to appear by which time people would say they lied etc and mocked them silly. So in their position and learning from experience it is better if they don't say anything because of the RCE nature of the game.


Overall they do try and balance everything out but no one is perfect and it's not easy to balance certain factors. Especially when there are conflicting demands. In such cases I try to think what I would do? I think that can be helpful in understanding their decision making.

So for example take taming. They have a number of features to develop and planet partners saying they want such and such a feature. They are a small team what do they do? Appease planet partners demands which could mean delaying taming or concentrate on taming for the player base and risk making planet partners angry? No matter what option they choose someone is going to be upset. Sometimes it's just not possible to help everyone and balance all the factors. What would you do in such a situation? Me I'd tell the planet partners to take a hike and develop taming :) but I understand the possible reasons that may have caused them to delay taming...
 
Subscribing to this thread as I find the subject and the associated views quite fascinating.

Here's my :twocents:

As I see it, MA are in a difficult position regardless of what they do. Remember, that they have (I'm assuming for the point of this thread) shareholders/stakeholders (including the playerbase to a degree) that their board is responsible to, just like any company.

On one hand, they have made mistakes, lost the confidence and trust of a percentage of the playerbase (and as a result lost players), introduced (and by the looks, now suspended) a planet partner policy that has further polarized the community, further isolated themselves from the playerbase in terms of communication and in numerous ways shown that they haven't learnt much in the 10 years that Entropia has been operating.

On the other hand, they have made good decisions, gained players appreciation and confidence (and gained new players), introduced a planet (and now mini-planet/moon) partner policy that has diversified the community, improved their communication with the playerbase (Dev Notes etc) and in numerous ways shown that they have learnt quite a few lessons in the 10 years that Entropia has been operating.

If you were to list every single change that has been made over the years and split them into 2 columns then, depending on who is writing such a list at any given time, I think the outcome would be different. Why? Quite simply because everyone has their own opinion and they all consider them to be equally valid.

What can we draw from this? Well, 10 years isn't a bad feat for a game, regardless of your point of view on MA's performance. After all arguments are said and done, it is STILL a game...You are paying for entertainment, just like you would be if you went bowling or to the cinema. The fact that you have the option to withdraw (and some even profit!) is a bonus, no matter how you look at it and no matter how MAs original marketing touted it.


Lastly, here's a little something for all the philosophical types to contemplate :

:wise: MA is predictable in its unpredictability :wise:
 
No, he's not asking for money. He's trying to imply MA has some governmental legal obligation to keep investments as good as possible. They don't. And he's not the first one to attempt to make this comparison of MA = Gov't and it is always wrong. It's always used as an attack on MA when they lose money ingame. I can't recall anyone who regulay profits trying to say MA is a government.

What MA has (as a business) is a huge self-interest in pleasing their customers. When they make huge mistakes like have been mentioned again and again, they lose more and more of their player base. They make financial decisions such as "Well, not working on this part of the game will only lose us an estimated X players. Less than the amount of money/time we'd have to invest in building it." However, they fail to see the incremental increase of issue upon issue and their overall exponential impact on their player base. Had they done certain things differently, this game could have had 4 times the players it does now.

What also upsets me about the OP is that it is clearly not a new player, and I have reason to believe this account was made just for trolling. So I'm giving him a chance to prove me wrong. (Which they might try to do by making a new ava, then having me meet that one.)

Really. Chill the fuck out.

While it is obviously a new account; A) There's nothing to suggest it is a troll account, B) There is actually nothing to suggest it is a double account, could as easily be old time guy who made a new one, C) It really shouldn't matter to the discussion who said it so ignore A and B.

As for this bit:
He's trying to imply MA has some governmental legal obligation to keep investments as good as possible.

I can't see that anywhere in the OP.

What I read in the OP is an analogy. "Think before you invest"-sort of thing. MA has not made a profit for years, literally. How in the world is it suddenly trolling to suggest they might go bust? Or, if that was too unrelated to the topic at hand; how is it trolling to suggest that MA can easily devalue any item in the game, when they have clearly done so many times? You can't deny that MA has a huge responsibility for the in game economy.


And, if you didn't really get it yet: The fuck it matters? Nothing. So what if you disagree with the OP. Doing your best to start a shit storm is hardly the right way to prove him wrong.
 
You start as a

:banana:

with luck and skill you may become a

:tux:


Confused? :scratch:


(A rich banana :) )
 
What I read in the OP is an analogy. "Think before you invest"-sort of thing.

That's not the part I disagree with. It's the part of comparing MA to a country's government.

Do you agree with the OP that Ma should be considered a government? If so than we disagree.
 
JC....

That's not the part I disagree with. It's the part of comparing MA to a country's government.

Do you agree with the OP that MA should be considered a government? If so than we disagree.

I am not saying I agree with everything he is saying but the analogy is accurate...he is not saying that MA IS a government just that they function as one in his analogy...corporations have governing structures which function to act like a government...this is a game and what he was saying was if you overlay an analogous national government system onto the EU realm...MA is the government and functions as a Banana Republic...that's what I read anyway...Banana Republics aren't necessarily arbitrary legislatively as he suggested but BRs are more a description of small nation-states with no real currency value...definitely accurate description of EU, realistically...just not practically...practically everything has value as long as it is limited in availability and has some 'functionality'(individually defined by user...as clothes to some has functionality...to me just waste of peds)...MA could be more accurately described as an oligarchy with god-like tendencies as I am aware that there are 'real' shareholders behind the scenes that dictate about profit and loss and changes etc...they control the grand picture and MA dictates the little picture...but MA could drop 1 Mod Merc to every player tomorrow with no 'REAL' consequences to MA...i.e.. theres very little creation costs...but would destroy MM market...

Brick
 
What also upsets me about the OP is that it is clearly not a new player, and I have reason to believe this account was made just for trolling. [...]

Hey John...I started my account on forum 3 years after I joined game. Maybe that guy did same ? No need to be so suspicious on everyone with less than 5000 posts.
 
OK smart ass....

...now it ur turn...what's UR full in game name? Cuz I've read some of UR posts and UR no newbie...

brick
 
...made it clear?

:scratch2: Um, my full ingame name is displayed prominently to the left in my forum details to the left, same as yours are.

AND btw, your subject "OK smart ass.... " could have meant anyone. You didn't specify me by name, nor had a quote from me indicating you were replying.

Which also btw, shows my having joined back in July 2006, so I clearly didn't try to say I was a new player. So your snide remark makes no sense.

However, Smartasses info says he joined this forum 2 days ago, yet posts like this are atypical of true new forum accounts.

Yes, Shoti, I'm aware folks can and do join long after they start playing. That's actually why I was asking the OP for their ingame name. To see if they were a player with experience, or if they had just stated recently.

BTW, I'm not the only person wondering about that.
 
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I am also interested in this thread. It seems clear to me that we may never know any more of the OP due to the Harsh words from an overzealous Mod. A bit out of line.... I would say yes.
 
I wasnt talking to you....

:scratch2: Um, my full ingame name is displayed prominently to the left in my forum details to the left, same as yours are.

AND btw, your subject "OK smart ass.... " could have meant anyone. You didn't specify me by name, nor had a quote from me indicating you were replying.

Which also btw, shows my having joined back in July 2006, so I clearly didn't try to say I was a new player. So your snide remark makes no sense.

However, Smartasses info says he joined this forum 2 days ago, yet posts like this are atypical of true new forum accounts.

Yes, Shoti, I'm aware folks can and do join long after they start playing. That's actually why I was asking the OP for their ingame name. To see if they were a player with experience, or if they had just stated recently.

BTW, I'm not the only person wondering about that.

...I was talking to SMARTASS...the OP...asking the same question you asked at the beginning...FFS!

Now Im beginning to wonder if u r the OP and you started this thread to troll all of us! :laugh:

Brick
 
My apologies, Brick. I actually forgot the OP's name and thought you were talking to me. My mistake. :ahh:
 
No, he's not asking for money. He's trying to imply MA has some governmental legal obligation to keep investments as good as possible. They don't. And he's not the first one to attempt to make this comparison of MA = Gov't and it is always wrong. It's always used as an attack on MA when they lose money ingame. I can't recall anyone who regulay profits trying to say MA is a government.

What MA has (as a business) is a huge self-interest in pleasing their customers. When they make huge mistakes like have been mentioned again and again, they lose more and more of their player base. They make financial decisions such as "Well, not working on this part of the game will only lose us an estimated X players. Less than the amount of money/time we'd have to invest in building it." However, they fail to see the incremental increase of issue upon issue and their overall exponential impact on their player base. Had they done certain things differently, this game could have had 4 times the players it does now.

What also upsets me about the OP is that it is clearly not a new player, and I have reason to believe this account was made just for trolling. So I'm giving him a chance to prove me wrong. (Which they might try to do by making a new ava, then having me meet that one.)



They can market themselves as whatever they wish. It doesn't change the fact that they are a G.A.M.E. company.

All due respect, JC, but you have very much undermined your statement by the "it is always used as" phrase. I am pretty sure you cannot read minds. I have read the post, and I have read something which is well-written with a comparison which supports his main point that it is important to realize that there is a company involved which may act in unpredictable ways: a business risk which is to be taken seriously if you insist on making an investment (I still consider it expenditure btw). I make my investments in another way (and they appear to be working out quite well :D)

And while you may state the comparison of MA to govt is false, as the company has a self-interest in keeping people pleased...it's the same with govt. If they screw up, they lose their job as well.

Your last paragraph also comes across to me as if you are "filling in the blanks" based on...well, based on what, exactly?

Anyhow,
I am not a new player,not a new account and I am not around here for trolling. But I agree with the dude.
 
MA functions similar to a country's government. I don't think anyone was implying they actually are a government and are subject to all the same scrutiny and responsibility. But don't take this to imply that the analogy has no worth...

The fact of the matter is that many players see this G.A.M.E as an investment (of time, money and energy). There is a lot of potential worth in investigating the predictability of what many perceive to be the "governing body" of EU.

We should get this thread back on point because it was getting somewhere productive before this finger pointing fiasco.

IMO it is ultimately very difficult to predict the actions MA is going to take with regards to the economy. It's a delicate balancing act and there's never only "one" perfect solution to the many problems that plague our economy. There's dozens of paths MA could take and it's impossible to know which one and how it's going to affect the value of our investments. At least that's how I feel. Perhaps players who have been highly active since beta have a better idea of how MA thinks and where EU is headed.

I don't think MA has an in house economics department so that makes me wonder how much economic theory actually goes into their decision making, or whether it affects it at all? :eyecrazy:
 
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