Is 'botting' responsible for the rapid item price increase

DonJunior

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There are now many items that allow players to hunt AFK, often referred to as botting. Players with high paying jobs can now grind while holding down a job, something that I've been told was not the case 10 years ago. If so, is this a good reason why Mindark will never crack down on botting as it is fueling the economy?
 
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Rocket192

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weapon prices in EU have historically been a reflection of their ROI.

to cite a key example. at the end of loot 1.0 a high-tiered IMK2 was selling for 350k+ (early 2017)... then by early 2019 that same IMK2 was selling for 65k (i bought one from jak). about 6 months later, in late 2019, MA introduced the new mayhem token system and GG broker items. The imk2 i had sold to shilda for 95k, and now, 3 years later, would fetch 150k+ given the recent t6 sale for 135k.

Equipment in entropia is only worth its ability to produce. most people are short-sighted and don't think about future opportunities when planning their gear setup and play time. that's what sets the winners apart from the losers on a margin-to-margin basis (excl. playtime).

(player A): the shortsighted player is telling themselves "mod nanos are gone, lp100s are gone, bp110s about to be gone, bc80s gone, etc... so my ability to profit is much lower and now i don't want to play/my gear is worth less than 6 months ago." -- this player isn't wrong, but they're foolish.

(player B): the long-game player is telling themselves "okay MA gave us a lvl 150+ blade in the broker, new best-in-slot weapon for grinders, but they didn't refill bc80, bp70, or lp100... we're probably going to get even higher level weapons around TWEN or sooner, i should get the best gear i can now and start stacking tokens and working on looter levels."



i was player A for many years in terms of hunting. bought and sold gear at nearly the worst times, and never committed to anything. Consequently i never made money.

As player B i've managed to make 135k in profits since HWM (realized), have over 400k in gear, storage full of stuff, and was able to pull a broker weapon. This is all despite getting slaughtered by FFA and all with a total net deposit amount of 286,000 ped. it's not always pretty, but never underestimate what a scarce, best-in-slot weapon can do for a dedicated player.
 

Nik-Elas

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@Rocket192 i mostly agree, although foolish and not wealthy might mean the same thing here.. not everyone can spend what you have done and have 400k sitting in storage but yes i get your point which is pretty spot on. Just gotta find the level that works for you
 

Rocket192

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@Rocket192 i mostly agree, although foolish and not wealthy might mean the same thing here.. not everyone can spend what you have done and have 400k sitting in storage but yes i get your point which is pretty spot on. Just gotta find the level that works for you
events can be farmed from all levels of dps and skill. players have a tendency to outplay their bankroll and/or use L gear. in which case they're probably just playing for fun and not for business. no one that plays 1-2h/day should own an lp100 for instance. $5 still has a stickied Risk of Ruin thread in the hunting section.

trust the devs and trust the system, even when the system is arbitrary and full of lazy dev shortcuts.
 

minim

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weapon prices in EU have historically been a reflection of their ROI.

to cite a key example. at the end of loot 1.0 a high-tiered IMK2 was selling for 350k+ (early 2017)... then by early 2019 that same IMK2 was selling for 65k (i bought one from jak). about 6 months later, in late 2019, MA introduced the new mayhem token system and GG broker items. The imk2 i had sold to shilda for 95k, and now, 3 years later, would fetch 150k+ given the recent t6 sale for 135k.

Equipment in entropia is only worth its ability to produce. most people are short-sighted and don't think about future opportunities when planning their gear setup and play time. that's what sets the winners apart from the losers on a margin-to-margin basis (excl. playtime).

(player A): the shortsighted player is telling themselves "mod nanos are gone, lp100s are gone, bp110s about to be gone, bc80s gone, etc... so my ability to profit is much lower and now i don't want to play/my gear is worth less than 6 months ago." -- this player isn't wrong, but they're foolish.

(player B): the long-game player is telling themselves "okay MA gave us a lvl 150+ blade in the broker, new best-in-slot weapon for grinders, but they didn't refill bc80, bp70, or lp100... we're probably going to get even higher level weapons around TWEN or sooner, i should get the best gear i can now and start stacking tokens and working on looter levels."



i was player A for many years in terms of hunting. bought and sold gear at nearly the worst times, and never committed to anything. Consequently i never made money.

As player B i've managed to make 135k in profits since HWM (realized), have over 400k in gear, storage full of stuff, and was able to pull a broker weapon. This is all despite getting slaughtered by FFA and all with a total net deposit amount of 286,000 ped. it's not always pretty, but never underestimate what a scarce, best-in-slot weapon can do for a dedicated player.
Where do you have your info about imk2? I sold mine around then for 75k I belive.
 

Sulje

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Well MA is a small Swedish company struggling to survive, which is why they can not afford to implement zero cheating policy.
 

Msturlese

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As per the part Skill is power i totally agree (i am a skill junkie): rising skill make one able to use whatever is available for cheapest.

we all talk of high prices, remember that MF chips sell for 105% and contribute to the bullet for 2% that is cost of shooting is 100.1 % that is just like an UL item... if you add a L120 implant cost of shooting falls to 100.09% that means (L) = UL . MF adds to RDA and biotropic that are 2 important skills

Botting is not responsible for prices increase imho, due to the fact that game is TT-negative. it is more responsible in case for squishing the Markup.

The price increase is transfer of previous losses to the sold item (for the seller) , and anticipation of future ROI (for the buyer).

Some items are just pricy due to some "mind factor". people use range Laser 90% due to "bukin rifle" pavlov effect.... that lead any laser rifle, with worst stats in game, to cost much, even a 48 eff 2.7 DPP, that is due to mindset. same happens for (L): A laser rifle Bluepring cost 5x other ones to manufacture armatrix for diffusion of that item.

Dont blame the bots, the problem is low playerbase that reduce MU on common loot and avoid transfering TT losses to other poeple
(yes the game is about transfering TT Losses, you cant beat the game, you can beat only the gamers)
 

MeiGDLing

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Items as in gear or loot? If you mean loot then yes, at least partially. It's also just a supply/demand issue there is much more loot being looted than before due to the macro mary's but even most of the legit grinders are 2.0 or at least UL setups (in non event times anyway, as 24/7 grinding with armatrix in perseus or w/e is a black hole for peds) and botting or not they are somewhat of a drain on the prices in the sense they are trying to generate as much markup as possible whilst spending as little as possible, so crafters don't really need all the extra loot hunters can supply becuase the extra hunters aren't buying more stuff from them. In fact if you think about what retains markup the best it's mostly just stuff hunters sell to hunters like tier comps.
How to fix it? Maybe a crafting 2.0 of sorts with a crafting codex system and new series of blueprints with stuff worth crafting or worth buying for big hunters but idk need someone smarter than me to figure it out.
If you mean gear then no, if anything botters keep it somewhat steady, prices rise and fall, generally after a mayhem people looking to off load so more for sale and not that many people looking to buy in so supply>demand again. Come migration/summer mayhem prep time it will swing back and ofc the state of the real world also has some influence on who plays here and how they play.
 

SoberPhil

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339154-c4d81fbd12a5c5ea2f90abe3405be984.jpg
 

Rocket192

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Where do you have your info about imk2? I sold mine around then for 75k I belive.
purchased originally from jak for 75k iirc, the dms did not survive the PCF migration.

auction history. i set a 95k BO and logged off for a few weeks. shilda bought it. t9
 

Shilda

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Since you put my name on it...
weapon prices in EU have historically been a reflection of their ROI.

to cite a key example. at the end of loot 1.0 a high-tiered IMK2 was selling for 350k+ (early 2017)... then by early 2019 that same IMK2 was selling for 65k (i bought one from jak). about 6 months later, in late 2019, MA introduced the new mayhem token system and GG broker items. The imk2 i had sold to shilda for 95k, and now, 3 years later, would fetch 150k+ given the recent t6 sale for 135k.

Equipment in entropia is only worth its ability to produce. most people are short-sighted and don't think about future opportunities when planning their gear setup and play time. that's what sets the winners apart from the losers on a margin-to-margin basis (excl. playtime).

(player A): the shortsighted player is telling themselves "mod nanos are gone, lp100s are gone, bp110s about to be gone, bc80s gone, etc... so my ability to profit is much lower and now i don't want to play/my gear is worth less than 6 months ago." -- this player isn't wrong, but they're foolish.

(player B): the long-game player is telling themselves "okay MA gave us a lvl 150+ blade in the broker, new best-in-slot weapon for grinders, but they didn't refill bc80, bp70, or lp100... we're probably going to get even higher level weapons around TWEN or sooner, i should get the best gear i can now and start stacking tokens and working on looter levels."



i was player A for many years in terms of hunting. bought and sold gear at nearly the worst times, and never committed to anything. Consequently i never made money.

As player B i've managed to make 135k in profits since HWM (realized), have over 400k in gear, storage full of stuff, and was able to pull a broker weapon. This is all despite getting slaughtered by FFA and all with a total net deposit amount of 286,000 ped. it's not always pretty, but never underestimate what a scarce, best-in-slot weapon can do for a dedicated player.
your dates are wrong
purchased originally from jak for 75k iirc, the dms did not survive the PCF migration.

auction history. i set a 95k BO and logged off for a few weeks. shilda bought it. t9
also the tier on gun was tier 8 not 9 :handgun:
 

Rocket192

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@Shilda ahhh yes it was tier 8. i found the old dm. and it was 2021 not 2020 correct? i remember selling out to fund the remainder of a down payment on a new house.. my mistake.
 

Msturlese

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BTW Pablo (Dirty Dingo's ) Sold a T6 IMK2 @ 100k Ped in January just before taking a break
... he was lamenting of bad returns as we all do , strange huh ?
 

atomicstorm

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@Rocket192 i mostly agree, although foolish and not wealthy might mean the same thing here.. not everyone can spend what you have done and have 400k sitting in storage but yes i get your point which is pretty spot on. Just gotta find the level that works for you
Might recommend that you not leave your money unintended in a video game with a large withdraw period. Make it work for you.
 

atomicstorm

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BTW Pablo (Dirty Dingo's ) Sold a T6 IMK2 @ 100k Ped in January just before taking a break
... he was lamenting of bad returns as we all do , strange huh ?
The game does not favor efficiency alone (if at all, *stir pot*). IMK2 is only good for botting without repairing for what 10+ hours (no amp), which means DPS is so poor that you might as well not do it.
 

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This game when played at a high level is very unhealthy. For the body and mind potentially.

That is not a good enough excuse or reason for top players using the exploit of botting.
 

robber

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Bots .. no they dont exist...also .. I hear Women when they have babies dont sleep more than 4h a day so all is legit .. So its proven Human dont need sleep.. we good .. keep pew pew.. bots they dont exist!
 

psyche

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I think bots would decrease item price. If the bot camps a mob 24/7, And getting a lot of items from that mob, then there will be a lot of supply.
Simple supply vs demand. When there is supply to satisfy the demand, then price goes down.
If there are no bots and no one hunting, then there will be no supply. Price will increase.
 

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@ psyche i appreciate the reasoning but that is already in an oversupply market without any bot. simply there is no need to craft many items because playerbase is small

as per an Armatrix every day the playerbase need (random number) 10.000 ped TT of weapons (we can dig numbers in ah to see total TT on all the armatrix series btw)
as the 10.001 ped of weapon is crafted it goes for the next day. if 70.000 are crafted the supplky for 1 week is ready
we are in the situation where 700.000 ped tt are crafted and shops are full of 10 weeks of weapons and there is no real need of further clicks.
some player sells 10 weapon and craft 10 more some sell 1 and does not even bother to refill. some craft on demand.
as you all know, basic huntloot (muscle oil and eyeoil) are for springs and conductors for low level amp and weapon
a second tier requires adrenal, then spleen then heart
that is the base of the supplòy chain. no craft = zero value for oils, low hunt return
bots are also in all the other games accounted for being a problem.
the problem is LOW PLAYERBASE to feed 54 workforce in MA and is not enough to buy loots.
that makes the pyramid even steeper. UE5 and EPIC store could change it.. hopefully
 
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Deemer

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There are now many items that allow players to hunt AFK, often referred to as 'botting'. Players with high paying jobs can now grind while holding down a job, something that I've been told was not the case 10 years ago. If so, is this a good reason why Mindark will never crack down on 'botting' as it is fueling the economy?

The problem is that there is no real economy, but MA looks like ostriches which looks like dont develop this game... just because bots feed them while they ruin the economy.

All items that have some value are sold not in the game, but in the forum.

Most of the interesting resource is not sold in the auction, so that the data from these charts, which are provided for information, are not valid.

So this is not an economy.

The same bots sold their stuffs to ALT AFK resellers, who play with the whole resource economy, call it a free market.

So for some players, EULA and TOU are not valid, therefore, the document is invalid for anyone who has spent more than $1. Because MA knows who uses more than one account and who plays 33 hours a day, but they don't do anything about it.

In short, only an idiot would invest in a manipulated trade of 100 people who work at McDonald's but their avatar is 30 hours online everyday... and as we found out there are even male nursing mothers.
 

Deemer

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Its the resellers who are increasing prices on rare items.

Rare loot is not at all in the main exchange of $/PED to give it as an example.

Every honest reseller in this game stands in front of the auction while playing with his main avatar somewhere.

During Mayhem, he uses at least 2 more of his ALT avatars.

Please don't talk to me about honest idiots. I won't even bother to outline how many rules are missed, intentionally by the MA.
 

Elfie

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Yea well.. that's just like your opinion man..
Yes it is, just as it is your opinion the botting exploit is acceptable. It's just your opinion man and I disagree with it.
 

SoberPhil

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Yea well.. that's just like your opinion man..
But it's not just one person's opinion tho. There's a consensus across the gaming industry that botting = cheating and cheating is bad, any serious gaming company out there running a big MMO takes steps to fight botting, this issue does hurt any MMO that it affects, and it's not just the disbalance that it creates. When people play an MMO they expect to play with/against other players like themselves, not bots, which are essentially like NPCs in any offline game. The fact that in this game this is debatable is an indication of how widespread it has become. I wish for this game to become better, botting just makes it worse, especially since the use of third party software is supposedly banned.
 
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