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Is 'botting' responsible for the rapid item price increase

Elfie said:
Yes it is, just as it is your opinion the botting exploit is acceptable. It's just your opinion man and I disagree with it.
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It isn't my opinion. It is fact straight from MA. I don't refer to it as botting however like all of you with your pitchforks. It is called a simple macro to me, just a tool to prevent RSI. Already MA has stated that this is fine to use. Your fight is with them. Also I don't hear nearly the amount of bitching on these forums about multiple avatars and much more wealth pulling strategies than a simple macro provides. These forums have so much damn whining sometimes I don't know why I show up anymore lol.
 
Buying Bot that can fap, repair armor, repair scope/sights & amp, repair gun, convert shrapnel, pop stims., replenish enhancers, and target correct mob @ Twin Peaks Boxes...

MA has done a good job of either making long-term botting impossible (max tt/L equip), or making the benefit not worth it (i.e decreased skill gains on n00b mobs) - There's been 19 years of learning. From auto-fapping snabs&dripis / pink pools to mann mphing trapped trox/spiders.

At any rate, what others do shouldn't impact your gameplay as much as what you do. Enjoy the gameplay & be kind y'all

Cheers
 
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The definitions here are all incorrect.

Botting:
- Software which takes actions based on game queues.

Examples:
- Anytime your avatar is under 25% HP, use Heal Tool until 100% HP.
- When an item breaks, repair it then continue previous actions.


Macro:
- Software that presses buttons for you and can be time based.

Examples:
- Press Keys F, F, 2, 2, 3, 3 with 3 seconds in between then repeat.


Botting = Bad and the software is typically custom in nature which is designed to interact specifically based on queues from the Entropia Universe software directly.

Macro = Good and the software is generalized to simply push buttons for you and is not directly interacting with the Entropia Universe software.

A Macro will eventually require human interaction to keep doing the same repetitive tasks. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF while you sit and watch your avatar like a movie until it needs your human input.

A Bot will never require human interaction and will react based on in game queues.

There is a difference and the game already has been adding it's own macro capabilities to it for YEARS now. Do you not remember having to click to shoot? Now it's automatic on the F key. What about Auto-Use and Next Target?

Macro = Okay
Botting = Not Okay
 
Power said:
The definitions here are all incorrect.

Botting:
- Software which takes actions based on game queues.

Examples:
- Anytime your avatar is under 25% HP, use Heal Tool until 100% HP.
- When an item breaks, repair it then continue previous actions.


Macro:
- Software that presses buttons for you and can be time based.

Examples:
- Press Keys F, F, 2, 2, 3, 3 with 3 seconds in between then repeat.


Botting = Bad and the software is typically custom in nature which is designed to interact specifically based on queues from the Entropia Universe software directly.

Macro = Good and the software is generalized to simply push buttons for you and is not directly interacting with the Entropia Universe software.

A Macro will eventually require human interaction to keep doing the same repetitive tasks. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF while you sit and watch your avatar like a movie until it needs your human input.

A Bot will never require human interaction and will react based on in game queues.

There is a difference and the game already has been adding it's own macro capabilities to it for YEARS now. Do you not remember having to click to shoot? Now it's automatic on the F key. What about Auto-Use and Next Target?

Macro = Okay
Botting = Not Okay
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Well explained and correct.
 
ZippO said:
It isn't my opinion. It is fact straight from MA. I don't refer to it as botting however like all of you with your pitchforks. It is called a simple macro to me, just a tool to prevent RSI. Already MA has stated that this is fine to use. Your fight is with them. Also I don't hear nearly the amount of bitching on these forums about multiple avatars and much more wealth pulling strategies than a simple macro provides. These forums have so much damn whining sometimes I don't know why I show up anymore lol.
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I think I read in another thread, which was concerned about a crash in itemprices, that you stated they will not crash (items with a 400k-600k ped value) because the ROI is so good with them. A decent amount of players who can make the ROI back must be using a robot/macro during Mayhem events. Surely there can't be other wealth pulling strategies as lucrative as profiting from 400k ped+ AFK hunting, virtually no effort and no risk due to the return rate longterm.
 
Killahbee said:
What increase? :)
Not much is selling atm
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I did notice a slow down in prices and sales. Obviously RL economic problems have impacted Entropia, plus a plateau on ROI. This thread is discussing last years rapid item inflation rather than the current situation.
 
DonJunior said:
I think I read in another thread, which was concerned about a crash in itemprices, that you stated they will not crash (items with a 400k-600k ped value) because the ROI is so good with them. A decent amount of players who can make the ROI back must be using a robot/macro during Mayhem events. Surely there can't be other wealth pulling strategies as lucrative as profiting from 400k ped+ AFK hunting, virtually no effort and no risk due to the return rate longterm.
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Gotcha.. Nope you didn't. You don't know my strategy, just as you do not know plenty of the folks that are top at mayhems strategy.

If only you all could see who withdrawals the most from players in the game.. Why doesn't MA make a hall of fame for this? I know I would be nearly last on it for my deposit to withdrawal ratio weighted for volume.
 
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ZippO said:
Gotcha.. Nope you didn't. You don't know my strategy, just as you do not know plenty of the folks that are top at mayhems strategy.

If only you all could see who withdrawals the most from players in the game.. Why doesn't MA make a hall of fame for this? I know I would be nearly last on it for my deposit to withdrawal ratio weighted for volume.
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Gotcha.. I was only using your statement (below) to support the idea that the profit/roi from 'botting' is very lucrative, due to the roi being good even at items valued at 600k of ped. I was not insinuating any strategy for any specific player.
ZippO said:
It is all about ROI though. That is maybe what some are not understanding atm. Why would these item prices change if you can pay off their price in a year?
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DonJunior said:
Gotcha.. I was only using your statement (below) to support the idea that the profit/roi from 'botting' is very lucrative, due to the roi being good even at items valued at 600k of ped. I was not insinuating any strategy for any specific player.
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This is a correct statement. Also this is only possible since MA changed to this new event format. Prior to that since mayhem inception there were players running multiple avatars sometimes for more than a few years.
 
Power said:
The definitions here are all incorrect.

Botting:
- Software which takes actions based on game queues.

Examples:
- Anytime your avatar is under 25% HP, use Heal Tool until 100% HP.
- When an item breaks, repair it then continue previous actions.


Macro:
- Software that presses buttons for you and can be time based.

Examples:
- Press Keys F, F, 2, 2, 3, 3 with 3 seconds in between then repeat.


Botting = Bad and the software is typically custom in nature which is designed to interact specifically based on queues from the Entropia Universe software directly.

Macro = Good and the software is generalized to simply push buttons for you and is not directly interacting with the Entropia Universe software.

A Macro will eventually require human interaction to keep doing the same repetitive tasks. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF while you sit and watch your avatar like a movie until it needs your human input.

A Bot will never require human interaction and will react based on in game queues.

There is a difference and the game already has been adding it's own macro capabilities to it for YEARS now. Do you not remember having to click to shoot? Now it's automatic on the F key. What about Auto-Use and Next Target?

Macro = Okay
Botting = Not Okay
Click to expand...

So player A has high tt gun that can shoot for 5 hours in mayhem instance plus enough armor/lifesteal so never has to fap, hunts for 5 hours with a single click.

Player B does not have high tt gun, makes script to repair when broken, otherwise press F like player A.

Exact same thing accomplished.

Player A = good
Player B = evil

That's dumb.
 
Xen said:
So player A has high tt gun that can shoot for 5 hours in mayhem instance plus enough armor/lifesteal so never has to fap, hunts for 5 hours with a single click.

Player B does not have high tt gun, makes script to repair when broken, otherwise press F like player A.

Exact same thing accomplished.

Player A = good
Player B = evil

That's dumb.
Click to expand...
Also seems unfair, as it is the wealthy players who can easily AFK play. Surely players shouldn't be banned for using a script to achieve the same as a macro player, just because they are forced to because they don't have a 20k+ ring and armor.
 
Xen said:
So player A has high tt gun that can shoot for 5 hours in mayhem instance plus enough armor/lifesteal so never has to fap, hunts for 5 hours with a single click.

Player B does not have high tt gun, makes script to repair when broken, otherwise press F like player A.

Exact same thing accomplished.

Player A = good
Player B = evil

That's dumb.
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Seems like the game has been refined down to an auto-clicker in one way or another.

There really is nothing more happening in Entropia that's not already accepted and happening in the various IRL markets. Most, if not all of the Market Makers are using High Frequency Trading Algorithms to do so, which is nothing more than another auto-clicker...

Now circling back to the OP title; You probably need some degree of 'bots' to keep the economy afloat. At least MindArk has it limited to button mashers and is not allowing specifically developed software to interact with the screen (this is why I'm weary of any closed source software and other screen reading tools currently being passed around the community) or Entropia's files. There are plenty of game queues which you need to attend to if you're not a bot. This is to say that it's all dependent on if we've learned anything from IRL markets, including crypto which is likely the most heavily algorithmically traded products and that would seem to include PED, one of the first widely used digital currencies.
 
all know that my position is "I dont care of AFK huntign at all"
but power pointed a correct thing
F masher is not botting at least it is carpal tunnel damage prevention
Logitech among others has programmable keyboard that inhect a key
Send F
in a loop is all the code in Autohotkey needed to repeat
the real problem is the lack of market for drops and it is due to nanocubes
 
You guys are right to point the difference. But as you've probably seen already, there's mining bots that freeze in place when a green dot shows up on their radar, also, as other have pointed out, hunting bots that can repair gear and execute other functions that are simply not possible with an autoclicker. The fact that such tools are still being used is just sad.
 
SoberPhil said:
You guys are right to point the difference. But as you've probably seen already, there's mining bots that freeze in place when a green dot shows up on their radar, also, as other have pointed out, hunting bots that can repair gear and execute other functions that are simply not possible with an autoclicker. The fact that such tools are still being used is just sad.
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Power said:
Seems like the game has been refined down to an auto-clicker in one way or another.

There really is nothing more happening in Entropia that's not already accepted and happening in the various IRL markets. Most, if not all of the Market Makers are using High Frequency Trading Algorithms to do so, which is nothing more than another auto-clicker...

Now circling back to the OP title; You probably need some degree of 'bots' to keep the economy afloat. At least MindArk has it limited to button mashers and is not allowing specifically developed software to interact with the screen (this is why I'm weary of any closed source software and other screen reading tools currently being passed around the community) or Entropia's files. There are plenty of game queues which you need to attend to if you're not a bot. This is to say that it's all dependent on if we've learned anything from IRL markets, including crypto which is likely the most heavily algorithmically traded products and that would seem to include PED, one of the first widely used digital currencies.
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I am going off topic, but I wonder if bots make average players (the type who use limited weapons) quit earlier than they would have, due to a lack of markup that has been vacuumed up by bots (rare components and items having a quota) making it even harder to eek out their peds. Kind of like trading algorithms taking the jobs of traders.

Bots may look like they are helping Mindark, but they may be hurting them if it scares off the 'fish'.
 
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no, bots been around since the beginning, you were told wrong.

didn't read all the rest.
 
Thark said:
no, bots been around since the beginning, you were told wrong.

didn't read all the rest.
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Thanks but that wasn't what i was asking, it was whether they are effecting the recent item price inflation due to the proliferation of 'bots', caused by an increase of auto loot and lifesteal items and that the Mayhem event is setup perfectly for their use.

Perhaps their usage was frowned upon and scruntized more by Mindark when players could TT profit in loot 1.0
 
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i press f
 
Back to OP question:
DonJunior said:
Thanks but that wasn't what i was asking, it was whether they are effecting the recent item price inflation due to the proliferation of 'bots', caused by an increase of auto loot and lifesteal items and that the Mayhem event is setup perfectly for their use.
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"Item price inflation"
In Huntloot we are experiencing DEFLATION and the use of bots could responsible, even if i consider it an effect of nanocubes EP crafting that require no huntloot and the small playerbase that does not require many crafted items
In MININGLOOT many miners that use amps are experiencing low return and therefore they demand (and obtain) a higher premium to sell the ores
in UL RARE; SCARCE items it is all about small availabilty, i blama more item "Hoarders" that try to squeeze the prices and token sellers that are split in 2 parts: small wallet players that sell all token in form of pills (for 0.4/0.5 ped per token) converting in Hyperstim that see their price reduced from 6/7 to 4/5 ped (it is 20% deflation) and biggger token farmer (Also with AFK setups) that are lucky enough to loot a rare and squeeze more ped off the vendor selling the "10k item" for 0.8 ped per token. those are in fact LOWER PRICES also in UL Mayhem items.
Increase in high end tool prices....
LR60 is offered on forum 150k fresh off the vendor and 170 upgraded. it is in fact higher than the 110k that were requested before xmas but we are talking on less than 10 items, with small market and rare and difficult to obtain, the seller simply try to squeeze best price they can...
a xtlc 800 t10 is offfered on trade channel for 97k since months and no one takes it.
a high end sword offered at 400k is not meaningful imho

an ASKED PRICE and a Pure Ped Traded Price are not the same thing
and also if someone values a XXX item and purchase it for 100 does not mean that next sale is to be made at 100 or 101.... it could be that JUST HIM wanted it

This phenomenon is well known in the markets as "greater fool theory" and it is exactly what reseller do
if i buy this garbage for 100 sooner or later a "!Greater fool" arrives and buy it for 101
it lasts until it lasts then they cannot find anyone that pay more than 99, if are clever they unload the security (or the item)
and many times the bubble deflates and the price finds a new consensus... real economy

we are not in a free market, we are in a communist economy where government "MA" control resources
so EU is all but a free market economy. just a "Full random gen" system (no "Quota" on goods but just "percent of finding" is applied can change this

perceived "INFLATION" is just PREMIUM FOR RARITY
entropia DESTROY MONEY because loot is UNDER the cost of kill so it is in fact a DEFLATIONARY GAME
the PED should value more than items for this reason because playerbase is not rising but scarcity of "seeked" items makes them rise.

in one word: I dont believe in inflation because it is against the logic of the system, it is PREMIUM FOR RARITY.
people want 2,0 weapon, or higher eff and the items with that characteristic rise
look old mayhem items, a scintillator is a worse item than many other 1.0 pistols, but the name "Mayhem in it bears 20k price tag increase"
people dont follow math and logic, just gut feeling....
 
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DonJunior said:
Thanks but that wasn't what i was asking, it was whether they are effecting the recent item price inflation due to the proliferation of 'bots', caused by an increase of auto loot and lifesteal items and that the Mayhem event is setup perfectly for their use.

Perhaps their usage was frowned upon and scruntized more by Mindark when players could TT profit in loot 1.0
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I dunno, i dont think so is what i mean in my rather rushed comment, reading it now it seems rather rude too, apologies.

But yeah the auto use made the programs a little simpler but think about it:
if you already went thru the trouble and know how to write a bot that presses f, how much harder is it to tell it that your hp is 200 now, read out the log and substract things when ever you see a "you took dmg"-msg? Just have the bot press 3 or what ever and equip fap. Same with auto loot. Yeah mayyyybe a little more complex for small mobs but big ones that reach you? Have the bot look at a pixel color of your auto use bar for example to know when youre done shooting. This means the mob is dead, press what ever button again to loot cuz the mob is infront of you and bam, no auto loot needed. You can even then equip a tagger, press f, wait 3 s, relax tool, equip main weapon, start shooting when the mob arrives, maybe read out chat log to see if he hits/misses you or somthing.

There are probably tons of more sophisticated ways to do this but thats just what came to mind while sitting in the subway.

What I mean is that, making it easier for people didnt reaaaally effect bots, because its not so hard to program something. Unless you are really bothered by those vampire hunters on RT, seems those really are just f-button-autoclickers but do they realllllllyyyyy effect anyone?
Mayhem tho? Even if you take away the f button completely, it would only change a few lines of code in their programs. If anything, its the format now. No more player skill to line up spiders perfectly in merry mayhem to optimize weapon uptime. Just a grind.

Soo i dunno, but i doubt bots have increased and thus i dont think it effects prices. Mayhem change is in my mind 20% responsible, 1% bots, 79% people talking up their weapons on the forum, others believing it maybe some other stuff. Some will tell you the roi of the weapons has gone up etc.
All i mean is: im doubting bots have increased, eventho there are more threads about it right now?

I could be wrong tho, i readily admit that, just personal feeling.
 
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ZippO said:
It isn't my opinion. It is fact straight from MA. I don't refer to it as botting however like all of you with your pitchforks. It is called a simple macro to me, just a tool to prevent RSI. Already MA has stated that this is fine to use. Your fight is with them. Also I don't hear nearly the amount of bitching on these forums about multiple avatars and much more wealth pulling strategies than a simple macro provides. These forums have so much damn whining sometimes I don't know why I show up anymore lol.
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As another user has explained, using a Macro is not the same as Botting. Having a different opinion to you does not mean the person is whining or after you with a pitchfork. Multiple avatars is an issue, but it does seem to be that MA take a zero tolerance to that when discovered, but Botting is harder to identify.
 
just to be fair MA never took a position it was a comment from a moderator that said that automation coming from macro keyboard or programmable controllers or even scripts is not to be considered as advance bots (interface with game).
MA shareholders or devs never expressed an opinion on the matter.
 
1-The-Smartest-Player.jpg



This is probably the smartest player in the game, judging by his attributes.

This certainly does not affect the loot I am fighting for... noooo... I'm even very worried about the problem with arthritis and hemorrhoids, so I hope he found a solution on how to manage at least two of his accounts.

The problem is mainly in the unprincipled MindArk, not in your hypocritical comments.
 
Bots have been around for quite some time..what's affecting prices imho at the moment...world issues...resellers...oh and of course...ignorance about loot 2.0
 
Resellers do not set prices, buyers set prices.
 
Xen said:
Resellers do not set prices, buyers set prices.
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Yes and no.
No if people is informed enough of possible value of the item
Yes if
- hoarders destroy supply and force higher prices on some category of items
- asymmetry or obfuscation or deceptive information make people believe in "Ped printers"
- people perceive as a "necessary evil purchase at that price" and can not calculate amortizing a top item with their playstyle.
 
I think I began to understand the economic structure of the game.

The Red and Green Dots are fighting, and the Whites are the ones taking the prizes... right?
Therefore they just watching the game from the ground with hours :unsure:


1-Entropia-2022-05-01-05-13-45.jpg
 
I think the impact of botting on prices, while perhaps not negligible, constitutes a modest piece of a much larger puzzle.

Supply seems to be a much more important factor than demand in this context, because MindArk has direct control over it. It is nearly costless for MindArk to gradually increase the rate at which copies of an item are introduced into the game until all unwanted price premium gets eased away. I think treating supply as fixed and trying to tease out the impact of different demand factors, while interesting, is not the most useful angle for analyzing this inflation.
 
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