Is it me or is there a housing Crisis In-game?

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Warning~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~ Completely Openion ~ Facts are Somewhere ~~~~~~

It seems as if the Economy in EU is being negitivly affected by the crossover of the old to the new VU. Sure it has taken sometime to notice it, and also blame is placed on other things instead of Market Conditions that are in game.

Such as the Bad Loot Pool, sure it could be an issue with the programming, but I think it is due to the sudden loss of players Due to new system requirements. To futher the issues of this, the time period when there was no sweating for the new players to enter into the game. But this reason is slightly smaller than the other.

Now there is Rumors of new land investments in the future worlds soon to be avalible. With the lack of players due to the system requirements, competition is lost in the anticipation of these new lands, and Current Estates still are marked for the expencive prices, or the (normal prices) when the reaility ofthe situation the prices should be dropping.

I have noticed a good amount of selling lately, most people are selling for differnt reasons. Some seek a more liquid position for the new market to come, some just wish to sell out due to the lack of profit that is being generated by a smaller playerbase, Some still want to try to sell to make a profit. andsome cant even get in the game to sell.

I am sure that with Auctioneers being in every corner of the world, is greatly affecting most shop owners. And with most shops now under due to Rents not being paid, the shops that have remained open get very little customers. At least from a new player base. and this further hurts the estates dealing in shops. then there is also issues of booths not working,

If there is a serious problem i think we might need some simple Temporary fixes until other issues are resolved. After all this is supposed to be a Golden Age, but it is shaping up to be a Great Depression. Mind you it is not that bad yet. But i feel as it might reach a point where it will become pretty nasty.

I dont have any reports by mindark, nor do i feel i need them. but i do beleive there is not enough new money flowing into the game, with money being withdrawn daily.

With people holding onto estates for the sole purpose of resell, this might not be a better time to flood the market I feel as if prices will fall. there will be new estates to buy and there will be more estates to chose from in the future possibly, and i dont feel that the market will hold onto the current prices, unless someone really wants to maintain the prices with a massive amount of money, to keep the values even. But i also feel that it would be unwise of mindark to hold onto these investments without properly pricing them with the markets.

New estates would mean lower prices for all. but that in turn means losses for the people owning now, when reselling comes. This isnt RL in respects to Slums and luxury, you can attempt to emmulate this, but the value in area A will resemble area B, Areas like CND are a little differnt, but can hold a little true to the whole picture.

To go back to the issue of Shops, most of the shops are suffering right now over 80% of shops are not in functining conditions, due to issues of a player nature, or a programming error.
Sence this is a golden age i do not beleive the conditions other than special loot dropping and a sparkle of new shiney graphics, should be the only perks to the Age of golden. and with the shops issue.

~I think the auctions might need a reduced Fee and better options for pricing, as a temporay measure, at least until all the kinks and issues surronding the shops are resolved.

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Everything is linked in the economy. if there is no stimulus with the player base that is currently playing then there might be a loss to the player base even further. Stimulus does not have to be a handout, but can be better oppertunitys. and stimulus does not need to be permanate but can be temporary.

And i have a feeling that in the last month alot of things have happened and there is a good deal of things i am sure is to come, but then again i hope i am wrong. And I do remain hopefull to the future of cheeper homes, and hope the best of people that overpaid, in terms of the future market that is to come.

And i hope this Housing Crisis doesnt affect the Real World Economy that would really suck. :D
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how does one get Fame on the forums? i have like 0. i must suck...
 
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When you place ur globals/hof's or ath's in the hall of fame section and ppl GRATZ you, you will get fame ;D
 
We need fixes! We need an overhaul of the existing user interface. It's bulky, cluttered, and not user-friendly at all. We need a complete redo of the frameworks of the game. The name of the game (to echo The Crystal Method) is player retention. People aren't going to want to stick around in a game whose chat box closes on them frequently or crashes for no reason. Once these kinks have been ironed out, then we can start talking about how to rebuild the economy. But it has to start with the basics. MA/FPC just seem to be adding things back into the game, but if you start with a pile of poo and just keep adding poo to it, you're not making it better. Not saying that EU is poo, I'm just making an analogy.

Oh and Lores, to get fame you post things in the HoF and Uber Loots section of the forum (the achievements part) and when people "Gratz!" you, you get fame. :yay:
 
tl;dr

.........
 
MA is fixing bugs first and putting features back in game.:scratch2:
Land areas and any other items cost what the players want to pay for ehm.
Yes econemy is recovering from a rl depression this ofc reflect in game.

i expect the game to pick up somewhere in the begining of next year as holidays like xmas never was a good time to be hanging behind the computer.
 
We need fixes! We need an overhaul of the existing user interface. It's bulky, cluttered, and not user-friendly at all. We need a complete redo of the frameworks of the game. The name of the game (to echo The Crystal Method) is player retention. People aren't going to want to stick around in a game whose chat box closes on them frequently or crashes for no reason. Once these kinks have been ironed out, then we can start talking about how to rebuild the economy. But it has to start with the basics. MA/FPC just seem to be adding things back into the game, but if you start with a pile of poo and just keep adding poo to it, you're not making it better. Not saying that EU is poo, I'm just making an analogy.

Oh and Lores, to get fame you post things in the HoF and Uber Loots section of the forum (the achievements part) and when people "Gratz!" you, you get fame. :yay:

Zane i am just letting peoples know what i see. :D

But also i threw in there perhaps for a temperary time a stimulus measure until they can iron out some of the kinks. in the form of reduced fees on the auction side of things. I am sure shop owners wont mind. if they did they would have paid rent on their shops by now :p
 
crisis will be worse next year :) they say an other one is coming
Bend down the hatches , buys!
 
so what you are saying (given other posts you've written), is that you cant afford an estate and you want MA to create loads more so the price drops. there is no "housing crisis" because housing serves no purpose, we have storage and storage boxes, we log off into the ether and have no need for rest.

the fact is there are plenty of estates, you just dont want to pay the prices asked.
 
About shops... Two reasons for prices going down:

1. These are bad times... Players are probably focusing on their main profession, selling all crap they have collected during their years in game to afford the next hunt. Unless you spend 100% of your ingame time running a shop, it just ties up peds you probably could have more fun with.

2. Another reason is MA. Lots of bugs with screens and vanishing inventories makes you insecure. Also, new VU shows that MA can and will screw with the location of your shop without reasons. So unless you have a serious interest in running a shop you just try to get whatever peds you still can for your estate and run.
 
Well it's just like anything else. Things look shitty, so the investors are bailing out before they lose to much. I don't know what could fix this really, except waiting until the game settles down, and hope new depositors start coming through the new arrivals in PA.
 
Seems to me, like a very poor excuse to complain about loot. Although considering that has not changed in years i fail to see the relevance

Also there is plenty around (estate wise) i do not see the problem there either

Rgds

Ace
 
i think that until the new planets are released it will remain this way. nobody knows if when the planets come all the players will move there from calypso or it will bring millions of players which will also spill out onto calypso.
 
IMO VU 10 is not here yet. We are stuck in a limbo between 9 and 10. Only when we got the full delivery of VU 10 I will start depo again. I think the last update with teamhunts and sweating brought back(10.2, since I'm still struggling to get the full 10.3 down through my shit Internet connection) was a big leap forwardm, but it has not yet passed the finish line. If others tend to see this in the same point as I there isn't much money spent ingame. I still have fundings to go round and hunt, expore, craft etc. But I'm very economic and doesn't spend much time in here (for now I even can't log in, so saving even more).
For housing, there hasen't been much use for an apartment anyway, so why bother? I would like to buy a shop or a booth my self, but I will not spend insane money for that.
 
so what you are saying (given other posts you've written), is that you cant afford an estate and you want MA to create loads more so the price drops. there is no "housing crisis" because housing serves no purpose, we have storage and storage boxes, we log off into the ether and have no need for rest.

the fact is there are plenty of estates, you just dont want to pay the prices asked.

You rich people are wrong and evil!!!

10,000 ped min. to buy a house is all ive seen in 3 weeks.
Lets not even mention the shop prices.

10,000 ped. Please Im trying to play a game here and take pride in a place to pretend live and work and maybe a soc to enjoy.

10,000 starting bid for a house. Its not that I dont want to pay that price.
I CANNOT. I dont have it. What am I to do spend my Girlfriends birthday money on it and tell her a lie. (I think not). Steal from the church offer cup, there is not 10,000 ped in it.

I can rent a store close to where I live in real life and put candy in it and do better then what can be done in this game so..... wtf is going on?
Im not even poor....

Its MA fishing for suckers.
Hey Im a sucker but your worm is to big for me to bite.
If you dont drop something smaller then ill swim off.

Please just let the investors rent the places they own.
They can keep the place just let me rent it from them.

Ive been at the same quest for 3 weeks looking for a place to call my own.
How long do you think Ill continue at this.
Ill take my peds to another mmo.

PE was and is the best real cash game. Others are starting up but I would like to see this one stay at number one.

If more players could get a place to call thier own they would stay longer and spend more money.

Even if Im wrong about the cost. Look at how many people complain about the cost of a "has no use" dwelling. We cant all be wrong.

There must be a solution. If they fail to find one its just they dont care or are fishing for big fish and small hooks let the big fish get away.

I dont have the peds they ask. Ill never have that kind of ped.
5 or 6 thousand is a crap load for me.
Other players would say 500 is alott for them.
What to do. Sell to the rich and let the rich rent to the poor (me)
I dont believe in your investments anyhow.
I just want to pretend with real money to make it more fun.
 
it's free market, some think price will fall some thk price will raise...
MA is working hard on everything atm..

price is determined by entropians, so why should price fall?

more seller than buyer ? ok fine, but in some months it will be the opposite maybe?
 
10,000 ped min. to buy a house is all ive seen in 3 weeks.
Lets not even mention the shop prices.
...
10,000 starting bid for a house. Its not that I dont want to pay that price.
I CANNOT. I dont have it.

boo hoo. i can't afford a Porsche, i dont go asking for them to make them cheaper. im pretty sure you can get "houses" for 5-6k, and why not buy an apartment for a few hundred? what are you going to do with this apartment: can you afford to furnish it?

rich + evil? lol.
 
boo hoo. i can't afford a Porsche, i dont go asking for them to make them cheaper. im pretty sure you can get "houses" for 5-6k, and why not buy an apartment for a few hundred? what are you going to do with this apartment can you afford to furnish it?

rich + evil? lol.

yes Porsche did make them cheaper.

No I cannot get a house for 6 thousand. Ive been trying.

Boo Hoo -yes If I dont work to get what I want then ill never get it. will I?

Sell me a house as you say I can get and Ill shut up.

Yes I can furnish it. over time and with my own trades and what i buy. I dont think even a good table is going to cost me 5000 ped so your point is not a good one.


price is determined by entropians,-- I dont believe this.
 
IMO all the problems that we have in game in this moment are also cause of a bad organization of the CE2-V10 installation.
Eventually with the release of the new planets the situation will change but i think is also important that someone in Sweden change work IMO
 
There are ofc many sides of this but if your looking at peoples oppinions here they are often mirrored from their assets ig.

1) Ppl with alot of money tied up in investments (Land, wpns, armor etc)
meaning its a temporary downperiod due to alot of reasons like rl economics crise, new VU10 with its bugs and more.

2) Ppl with less or no money tied up in game meaning its a natural setback to a more "normal" balanced way of looking at what things in a virtual game is worth after some years with alot of hausse.

My own oppinion is that there are less ppl willing to invest in virtual assets since you cant see them coming back up to the level they where back in 2007-2008 and probably never will. Sooner or later alot of ppl will be forced to sell their assets with a big loss unless you didnt invest in them during the 2004-2005 period when prices still where rather "modest". Maybe the golden age of 07-08 will come back one day but i dont think it will happen some time soon. Just my 2 pecs.

/Arwen
 
silly people...

The market is fine, and will continue to be fine. Things are just in an annoying limbo now until all the bugs are worked out. I mean, give MA a break, they changed they THE ENTIRE GAME ENGINE. They have done that before one time a few years ago - go read the version updates to see when that happened. It was before my time, but I think there were a lot of issues back then too, mostly that was lag related. I think houses may have actually come in to play after that, but it's hard to say because I have not studied the historical documentation a lot.

But also i threw in there perhaps for a temperary time a stimulus measure until they can iron out some of the kinks. in the form of reduced fees on the auction side of things. I am sure shop owners wont mind. if they did they would have paid rent on their shops by now :p

Lowering auction fees will not help shops. It will hurt them substantially. One of the primary pros to owning a shop is that taxes + shopkeeper decay costs is far below auction fees sellers normally incur. Since there's such a difference there, shop owners can, and a lot do, charge far below auction prices when they sell stuff... Why people don't go to the shops to buy things instead of paying more than they need to to the auctioneer and resellers that live in the auction rooms is beyond my understanding. I guess it's mainly convienience - sort of like why real world gas stations are called convienience stores and sell things for a heck of a lot higher price than you can find at a grocery store.

10,000 starting bid for a house. Its not that I dont want to pay that price.
I CANNOT. I dont have it. What am I to do spend my Girlfriends birthday money on it and tell her a lie. (I think not). Steal from the church offer cup, there is not 10,000 ped in it.
Not all estates are 10k. Quite a few are far below that. I think shopkeepers run around 2.5-3.5K right now, and apartments themselves are around 300-700 ped or so. I mean... 50 bucks, what's the big amount of complaints about. 50-60 bucks CAN probably get you an apartment... add 250-300 bucks and you have a shopkeeper in it. What's so high priced about that? Lemonade stands irl cost about the same once you add in overhead for supplies, etc. if you want it to last more than a week... Actually if you set lemonade stand up at a fair irl, it would cost more probably... just like mall shops cost more than apartments, and apartment shops cost more than apartments by themselves, etc. Go to McDonalds and work for a few hours for a few weeks and maybe you can afford the 80 bucks or so max to buy an apartment. Then it'll just cost you one buck a month for maint. fees. Go send in your application now.
 
IMO all the problems that we have in game in this moment are also cause of a bad organization of the CE2-V10 installation.
Eventually with the release of the new planets the situation will change but i think is also important that someone in Sweden change work IMO

lol right +rep :wtg:

ps . i want my pets back !

but marco sayed 2010 :(
 
A great deal of interesting disscussion. :D

I am not going to quote i am going to try to sum up and respond.

Rich people are not evil.

Poor People are not broke.

to the person that said this post was about me no abil to buy anything becouse i am not willing to pay the price and i want MA to flood the market with more stuff to make things cheep... Ummm i never said i wanted that to happen, i said i think that is what they might be planning with the new planets comming out. and the post is a warning of there might be a price decrease comming in the future.

The temporay stimulus of ah fees lowered. mastermesh mentioned the fact that shops sell things far cheeper than the Auctions. and this is so true. but i would counter the arguement with this.


MA has placed Gas stations at every corner of the world. (Auctioneers) And shop owners are facing a load of problems as it is right now. walk into a mall and only a handfull of shops are working right now. And A lowered fee will hurt shop i know this i do. 1: thats why Temporary lowered fees for auctions.
2: i dont think the Shop owners that have not paid their rents will mind the time of lowered fees. 3: it could help to lower mark-ups on most items and work as a stimulus to crafters to get more supplys cheeper.


But regardless it dont really matter what happens it is just fun to see what will happen. and fun to see what people have in so far as openions.
 
how does one get Fame on the forums? i have like 0. i must suck...

+Rep for your informative view on things. I must agree, this is in a vast need of improvement. PreVU10, I remember the top 10 Hof's were always over 10K, but now, they've all gone down. MA needs another brilliant ad campaign, so we get more new players, and a better chance to profit from LA's. MA will profit, and people will profit too. Their investment should pay off, just like ND's :D
 
+Rep for your informative view on things. I must agree, this is in a vast need of improvement. PreVU10, I remember the top 10 Hof's were always over 10K, but now, they've all gone down. MA needs another brilliant ad campaign, so we get more new players, and a better chance to profit from LA's. MA will profit, and people will profit too. Their investment should pay off, just like ND's :D

I think they have thead campaign down pat. they are just attracting the wrong types of players. we need depositing players not players wanting a free ride.
 
I think they have thead campaign down pat. they are just attracting the wrong types of players. we need depositing players not players wanting a free ride.

I dont use mind essence either.

Your sig makes me laugh out loud, 197% gamer, thats more than I put in.
 
so what you are saying (given other posts you've written), is that you cant afford an estate and you want MA to create loads more so the price drops. there is no "housing crisis" because housing serves no purpose, we have storage and storage boxes, we log off into the ether and have no need for rest.

the fact is there are plenty of estates, you just dont want to pay the prices asked.


there are plenty of estatesNo there is not, i was willing to pay the price but i only found 5 estates on aukt.
so i youst had to buy one whit a ugly wev to put my things in :laugh:
 
The market is fine, and will continue to be fine. Things are just in an annoying limbo now until all the bugs are worked out. I mean, give MA a break, they changed they THE ENTIRE GAME ENGINE. They have done that before one time a few years ago - go read the version updates to see when that happened. It was before my time, but I think there were a lot of issues back then too, mostly that was lag related. I think houses may have actually come in to play after that, but it's hard to say because I have not studied the historical documentation a lot.

Lowering auction fees will not help shops. It will hurt them substantially. One of the primary pros to owning a shop is that taxes + shopkeeper decay costs is far below auction fees sellers normally incur. Since there's such a difference there, shop owners can, and a lot do, charge far below auction prices when they sell stuff... Why people don't go to the shops to buy things instead of paying more than they need to to the auctioneer and resellers that live in the auction rooms is beyond my understanding. I guess it's mainly convienience - sort of like why real world gas stations are called convienience stores and sell things for a heck of a lot higher price than you can find at a grocery store.

I Agree on the first part and just reject out of hand all sky is falling, players leaving game, loot suffering arguments and quick-fix temporary solutions to non-existent problems until January of next year.

The second part I think is also spot-on and more should be done to limit the auctions in favor of supporting the use of shops. One couple of suggestion would be to

1: Only have three or four auction centers strategically placed on the planet where one must go to make all auction trades... of finished products... perhaps the top floor of the malls... this would increase traffic to both the malls and help to reduce the amount of items in auction...

2: Create three or four separate bulk auction commodities markets or auction houses for raw materials to be sold in bulk amounts of 200-500 or more perhaps centered in specially created workshop zones of selected cities where crafters can buy their own workshops and specialized crafting machines… such as weapon attachments scopes and sites only… or ore finders and energy finders only… etc… etc…

3: Low-cost, flee market type stalls on the city’s plazas that only operate when the owner player is actually there. This would add to vibrancy of the cities and a reason to go there and give low-level traders a physical space on which to build their businesses and reputations.


To the OP

If you are going to propose changes to retain and attract investment and draw new real players in to this scenario they should involve more the lowering fees or raising loots but things that actually add to the quality and depth and levels of involvement of the whole economic and social scenario and environment…

For example along with the weather there should be a real need for shelter... and a progressive offering leading leading from basic tents and shacks up to mansions in the sky. One thing this survival scenario lacks is a sense of actual survival like the actual need for food and shelter to complement and drive economics.
 
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the fact is there are plenty of estates, you just dont want to pay the prices asked.

The general population didn't want apartments on planet when they were 250 ped and you could choose pretty much which one you wanted so why would anyone want to pay 750 ped for one of the few resellers have put on the market?

(Reality check for resellers: Apartments did cost 750 ped+ on CND because there was no storage there. On the planet most of the apartment is located in towns that are hard to reach for everyone like fresh beginners. 250 ped is just about what someone can be willing to buy for something fun and useless, giving the extra 500 ped probably puts them over the limit of what someone could consider paying for something that isn't really that useful.)

There are only a handful of people who can have *real* use of estates, for instance (in the future) body surgeons and such, but then you need expensive equipment. Or you can have shopkeepers in an apartment, but it's also expensive, and shopkeepers are relatively rare on the market. And really social people who arrange parties and such, but then again to make an appartment attrative you probably spend alot of peds of buying (relatively rare) gear.

When I bought my apartment, I paid 260 ped and imho until VU 9.4 it was one of the best. At VU 10, it got relocated to a Soviet concrete suburb, overlooking another house instead of being a seaside one with view over the TP and servicecenter.

I have to admit I bought the apartment when storage started to get full, but since then I have TTd more than I have put into storage. Though depositing, after each hunt I have to ask myself "What in storage can I TT or sell now?" (my polaris armor already being put in a bank and spare polaris parts sold). After SGA the loots are back to normal and having no loots (no blazars) from half of the mobs aren't uncommon...

Generally, I'd say that some of the shop fees are too steep. Wtf, more than 100 ped/month for a shop? Unless it's a top crafter that makes popular items (or a top-level reseller who makes a year of rent back in one sale) my guess is that it's hard to make it back.

Another thing is that because of rarity, it's hard for someone to get a grip on some other estates, like hangars, houses and shopping booths. The fact that estates isn't divided into cathegories doesn't make it easier. Also, a lot of deeds are probably located in shopkeepers all over the planet, making it even harder for someone who's looking for something specific.

Maybe also the resellers simply are overpriced: I think thay want a price that's higher than someone is willing to pay (ie way higher than the price they got it for themselves in auction). Simply, they are trying to set the market price instead of trading at market price.

Since there's such a difference there, shop owners can, and a lot do, charge far below auction prices when they sell stuff... Why people don't go to the shops to buy things instead of paying more than they need to to the auctioneer and resellers that live in the auction rooms is beyond my understanding.
If there is a shop that keeps item below market value, those items will be picked up by resellers, and after that all that will be left in the shop is overpriced items.
My guess is that half of the shops around sells items for more than 20% *over* market price. One reason can be that when market price of an item goes up, resellers clear shops - and when market price goes down it's a tedious work for shop owners to adjust their prices so items in shops will be overpriced. And for higher level items, they are owned by resellers who got the items from auction and then adding 20% of their own (an example: SGA rocket launchers - market value 10k peds, sold in shops for 30k).

I guess it's mainly convienience - sort of like why real world gas stations are called convienience stores and sell things for a heck of a lot higher price than you can find at a grocery store.
Compare mailorder business instead. On ebay or on web stores (compare auction) you can find what you want from home. If you want a record/CD for instance you can search for it online and get it home, if you want it from a physical store you have to walk there, then you sift through the shelves, and the store can be out of it so you have to walk to next store.

I'd compare "convenience store" with the reseller-owned shops... Like, you want a mod merc today? Sure, pick one up in Tzepu's store for market price+40%.

Not all estates are 10k. Quite a few are far below that.
Problem is that houses aren't sold that often, so if you want one and you don't want to wait years for one with a lowest price, you have to pay what the (re)seller asks.

I think shopkeepers run around 2.5-3.5K right now
Aren't they still rare? Well...

Go to McDonalds and work for a few hours for a few weeks and maybe you can afford the 80 bucks or so max to buy an apartment. Then it'll just cost you one buck a month for maint. fees. Go send in your application now.

The area I live in has an unemployment rate of 9% or so. Getting an IRL job isn't that easy... Some year ago when a shop asked for tellers they got 3000 applications for 30 positions. If you want to work hour-by-hour (called in) for governmental railroads (SJ) you have to buy your own uniform and you have to finance the living while on education yourself and before that you have to win in an audition. Employers don't even announce openings of simple jobs because they know they would be swamped with appliactions.

(And, again, the apartments sold now in auction are imho overpriced since they was unsold for years even in the "good days" at 250 peds. And I doubt there is a shopkeeper for every apartment owner. I have at leat never looted one...)

Another thing: A reason why it's hard to find useful stuff in shops is while (top-level) crafters usually get a reasonable amount of items to sell, hunters rarely loot enough items to cycle through a shop. And who will search through shops to find 13 wool, 209 animal hides, 309 animal oil and so on...
 
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(...250 ped is just about what someone can be willing to buy for something fun and useless, giving the extra 500 ped probably puts them over the limit of what someone could consider paying for something that isn't really that useful.)

You simply under-estimate what people will pay for something "fun and useless".
 
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