Is there a good thread on understanding the EP world?

[AckerZ]

Trying to make my way through understanding why people are so obsessed with EP.

Hopefully someone can link me to a thread where this has already been covered.

If not hopefully someone can answer my queries:

Why do people set the condition to maximum when they are running EPs, I see Euphoria on twitch do this constantly - is this so she globals/hofs at a rate higher than on quantity?

Do you get more skills doing this?

Do you get more BP drops doing this?

The recycle EP bps seem really expensive, what are they and what exactly makes them so expensive?

 

[Svarog]

The hits are rare but higher on condition. People who do stackables on condition don't do it for skills or blueprints or the product, it's pure gambling.
The recycle bps cost 50/100/200/400 ped a click, so they are for those who don't get thrills anymore from merely 20 ped a click on EP4.

Want to dip into the dark world of EP? Talk to Henry BabyOxide, the guy has had several 6-digits hits and has nothing to show for that.

 

[BabyOxide]

EP 1: 00.02 per click
Ep 2: 00.20 per click
EP 3: 02.00 per click
EP 4: 20.00 per click
uses nanocubes, apart from the blueprint, no further markup (cheapest)
- gives explosives as a result
+ residue
& maybe BPs
& maybe GEMS, Garnet, Opal, Emerald, Ruby, Diamond

4 types of 4 levels
tech , explosives, and tools, and one more i think
Recycles 1: 050 PED per click
Recycles 2: 100 PED per click
Recycles 3: 150 PED per click
Recycles 4: 200 PED per click
uses acquired materials,
gizmos , explosives, and animal oils, or basic metals or enMatters
BPs are limited and both mats and BP has markup (very expensive)
- gives shrapnel as a result (convertible to universal ammo)
+ residue
& maybe BPs
& maybe GEMS, Garnet, Opal, Emerald, Ruby, Diamond

*BPs are expensive because of rarity, greedy people wanting to profit, and the idea that one hit could land you potentially a billionaire.. (not) ,
9900x seems to still apply yet no one has beaten it yet
imagine 9900x * 200 ped cost

all calculations are based on base TT value, markups are considered lost.

potential possible HOF base on simple formula is:

Cost of Base Mats * Condition Bar * random multiplier = potential HOF

Condition Bar works like a percentage, with an average of 95% to 105% success return on full qty
Imagine the Condition bar like a slider between 1% to 100 % of a theoretical max possible multiplier of 9900

i forgot where i got the 9900, from think it was was some auction fee calculation, however, so far nothing went over the 9900 multiplier

on full qty of almost any craft, the success average is around 1x the base cost
on full condition of almost any craft, the success average is around 5x to 10x the base cost

-----------------------------
start of unproven theory
-----------------------------
i theorized that, during a fail, it is possible that the pre-roll before the near-success determines if you get a fail or a pass,
if fail, it fails, but if pass, it proceeds to near success re-roll,

on near success, its always below a certain average value, otherwise it would have been a success,
which leads me to theorize that, a random generator applies a value to the crafting,
if the value falls below a threshold, its a near success, if it passes a threshold, it becomes a success,
when it passes a success, a third random generator applies the multiplier,
-----------------------------
end of unproven theory
-----------------------------

e.g:
qty ep4 gives around 20 ped +-
condition ep4 gives around 160 ped +-, lowest is 140 ped+- , highest average is 190 ped +-

anything beyond is where the "rare" multiplier kicks in
this rare multiplier is up to 9900
but on full qty the theoretical max is about 10 % of 9900 = 990 * 20 = 19,800 ped
on full condition the theoretical max is about 100% of 9900 = 198,000 ped

skill is gain when success or near success, skill value amount gained is proportionally diminishing
as your skill gets higher, you get lesser,
bonus skill proc is random,
skill gain is random i think, or probably based on a number of fails,

if you use a lvl 100 gun at low skill and low level, and when you make a successful hit with a successful skill increase, your skill gains appears to be higher then normal, (but i call this normal) , skill gain values diminishes as your skill levels increases,
with SIB, during SIB period, your skills gain values are double, but after you maxed, your skill gain values drops lower than if you had use a lvl 100 gun,

i assume the effect is similar in construction, if your not maxed on the BPs, you get more skills, but once you maxed, your skill gain values drops,
overall you will see a constant diminishing effect, that is because you get more and more skills, it is proportional to what you have already achieved,
the only way to see that you get more skills value, is if you sold your skills,

you can boost the value gained by using pills,

max condition also gives you more of the final product, when you are successful, but this applies only to material based or stack-able products, not single item or equip-able items, those you only ever get 1,
it is also assumed that whatever you get during a condition is also proportionally increased accordingly,
eg:
- more clicks on found BPs
- more of gems
- more of resulting stacks

 

[mastermesh]

If you start getting in to EP crafting grab a NGL (Noobie Grenade Launcher). Horrible eco, but best 'starter' unlimited grenade launcher out there. Low level instances and mobs are what you'd be using this for... no need to TT all those explosives, just go blow shit up!

 

[Legends]

The hits are rare but higher on condition. People who do stackables on condition don't do it for skills or blueprints or the product, it's pure gambling.
The recycle bps cost 50/100/200/400 ped a click, so they are for those who don't get thrills anymore from merely 20 ped a click on EP4.

Want to dip into the dark world of EP? Talk to Henry BabyOxide, the guy has had several 6-digits hits and has nothing to show for that.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! We don't use the 'G' word!!

There is no g**bling in Entropia

 

[Legends]

This has already been alluded to by others, but I wanted to just try and put it another way which makes more sense to me, anyway:

Any activity in Entropia, be it mining, hunting or crafting, accomplishes 3 things mostly:

- Converts PEDs into skills
- Acquiring/farming for specific loot/items
- Rolling the dice with a chance to hit a big payoff

I would say that most people who click Explosive Projectiles on condition are going for #3 only, largely abandoning the first 2. I'm not sure that what has happened with EP crafting on condition is something that had been fully anticipated by MA, hence the EP blueprints no longer dropping.

I would contend that the only reasons people still click EP on condition are:

1. Try to get on the ATH board
2. Try for that 9900x (as stated by Henry)

These 2 reasons are very different then most other activity in the game and very unique to EP crafting on condition.

There is one more possibility although I doubt it's really worth the money it will ultimately cost, that is:

3. Becoming the #1 All Time biggest crafter in Entropia

From Entropia Life:

I think the question marks is koter, not sure.

Cheers,
Legends

 

[M Rufen Power]

Thx! Great posts.

 

[Aloisius]

I look at the game like every activity you are buying scratch tickets. The scratch tickets will only ever pay out multis of the amount you paid for the ticket. In Mining it's how much it cost to drop a probe bomb. In hunting it's how much it cost to kill the mob minus the overkill. And in crafting its how much you pay per craft and the slider increases the odds (multiplyers) but lowers the chances. For example, I run the daily crafting sometimes on condition. Doing the settler arm guards I got zero successes for 2 or 3 days (only 36 clicks or something) and one run was all no success but one was a 300+ global. I think in the long run there is a balancer running for crafting like the overkill shrapnel payout in hunting.

Remember also in Singapore gambling is illegal and MA was able to prove this game is not GAMBLING. If it's not a personal loot pool, I figure it must be a personal tiered loot table then. Which explains why certain avatars loot TWEN all day and you are lucky to get a UNREAL coin. Still seems like gambling though.

 

[BabyOxide]

gambling is pure chance, but as MA has stated this is not the case, so it must be pseudo-RNG,
the only plausible method of simulating a chance but in fact is not, is by the use of SEEDs.
which when given a particular SEED INPUT the resulting OUTPUT is always the same. (cryptography for example)

by using seeds you generate an expected outcome each time. (thus making it NOT a chance)
my guess is the multiplier portion uses this, a generated pseudo-random lists of numbers
either each account is tied to 1 list or more lists,
or the fact that everyone shares a set of rotating lists (this can very well explain why loot waves occur)

when you rotate back to a particular set of numbers after a certain amount of time, those same multipliers/numbers recur,
this list could be billions of numbers long as it should be to avoid exploitation.
the final effect is similar to chance, but really its not. because it is deterministic, and deterministic is NOT CHANCE. period.

i believe this applies to KENO as well. KENO is not lottery. lottery uses random numbers usually generated by physically grabbing balls from a gadget of sorts with a bucket of balls , supervised by people. KENO uses digital systems.

and with payout, deep coded conditions must apply true, before you get a "global", "hof" , "ath"

you can see this effect after long runs and you will notice some sort of pattern.

the problem to trying to "catch" this pattern is difficult

based on my previous post regarding the part about checking whether the pot has enough to pay out,
this portion causes the "payout" to be shifted by the number of inputs (people depositing, or spending peds, this ties in neatly with hunting, mining and crafting.) and that why is hard to "catch" the pattern, because you cant "know" when people start spending and how it affected the rotated lists,

generally, total input minus ma fees/taxes whatever you want to call it (conditions) = output pool (shared by every one). one for each category, hunt , mine, craft ,
then rolls a number (kill / loot , drop a probe, click constructs) , your turns comes, lookup your turn via a table to a seed number from the list,
then apply payout algorithms,
if conditions dont matach, norminal loot or fail or no res found.
if conditions matches, "JACKPOT"


i also believe this is similar to slot machines.
for slots , the RNG portion is USED to generate combinations of wins or lose combinations (not payout amount),
then there is a second part that limits the payout portion, if the system "pool" does not meet the payout conditions.
then nothing will pay. this mean the combination that you rolled, will be altered. this can be done before or after the conditions are tested.

i believe when ma say there is no personal loot pool, but i believe it is not in the form of a pool but rather in the form of a stop loss / limit loss.
if you lose enough, you will get something back but usually not more than what you put in.
however, this does not explain how one would , play day 1, get some skills, 1 month later craft recycle 2, and withdraw a profit of 5000 times the costs.
perhaps its a combination, because it is not a chance, losing is not definite either, so when u lose enough, you get a "guaranteed win" but when this comes will depends on the seed. and there after, if all conditions are met promptly, then you hit that ultra prize. this is the only logical way that makes sense when chance is not involved.
i also believe there is an expiry time to this limit loss. if you don't try hard enough within the period, accumulated losses are forfeited out of the calculation cycle.


someone also mentioned about loot drops above...
the believe is that, there are categories for all drops / loot tables / like that of mobile games.
common drops no limit but rare drops like unique rings/ weapons / rare materials / rare blueprints has a finite circulation
if the system allows for 100 bps to be distributed , then only 100 blueprints will drop over time (applies to all rare / limited loot / materials )
if someone used up some mats or sold the BP to the TT, the system count drops, and the "loot" is re-introduced back into circulation awaiting for the next lucky person to score it.

this applies to unreal tokens and deed tokens that used to drop for CLD exchanges,
this applies to materials , BPs, and weapons

we dont know the limit MA set for this

if you want to test this theory it is possible, find out what what item is unique, and only ever one of, chuck it in the TT and wait for someone to get it.
if it does not re-circulate, it could be a very unique item that will ever drop only 1 copy of ever ,
but if it does, you know my theory is true.
then send in a report and ask ma to revert the accidental sale of the item, this will give them a head ache lol
good luck trying this out LMFAO

 

[unufain8]

gambling is pure chance, but as MA has stated this is not the case, so it must be pseudo-RNG,
the only plausible method of simulating a chance but in fact is not, is by the use of SEEDs.
which when given a particular SEED INPUT the resulting OUTPUT is always the same. (cryptography for example)

by using seeds you generate an expected outcome each time. (thus making it NOT a chance)
my guess is the multiplier portion uses this, a generated pseudo-random lists of numbers
either each account is tied to 1 list or more lists,
or the fact that everyone shares a set of rotating lists (this can very well explain why loot waves occur)

when you rotate back to a particular set of numbers after a certain amount of time, those same multipliers/numbers recur,
this list could be billions of numbers long as it should be to avoid exploitation.
the final effect is similar to chance, but really its not. because it is deterministic, and deterministic is NOT CHANCE. period.

i believe this applies to KENO as well. KENO is not lottery. lottery uses random numbers usually generated by physically grabbing balls from a gadget of sorts with a bucket of balls , supervised by people. KENO uses digital systems.

and with payout, deep coded conditions must apply true, before you get a "global", "hof" , "ath"

you can see this effect after long runs and you will notice some sort of pattern.

the problem to trying to "catch" this pattern is difficult

based on my previous post regarding the part about checking whether the pot has enough to pay out,
this portion causes the "payout" to be shifted by the number of inputs (people depositing, or spending peds, this ties in neatly with hunting, mining and crafting.) and that why is hard to "catch" the pattern, because you cant "know" when people start spending and how it affected the rotated lists,

generally, total input minus ma fees/taxes whatever you want to call it (conditions) = output pool (shared by every one). one for each category, hunt , mine, craft ,
then rolls a number (kill / loot , drop a probe, click constructs) , your turns comes, lookup your turn via a table to a seed number from the list,
then apply payout algorithms,
if conditions dont matach, norminal loot or fail or no res found.
if conditions matches, "JACKPOT"


i also believe this is similar to slot machines.
for slots , the RNG portion is USED to generate combinations of wins or lose combinations (not payout amount),
then there is a second part that limits the payout portion, if the system "pool" does not meet the payout conditions.
then nothing will pay. this mean the combination that you rolled, will be altered. this can be done before or after the conditions are tested.

i believe when ma say there is no personal loot pool, but i believe it is not in the form of a pool but rather in the form of a stop loss / limit loss.
if you lose enough, you will get something back but usually not more than what you put in.
however, this does not explain how one would , play day 1, get some skills, 1 month later craft recycle 2, and withdraw a profit of 5000 times the costs.
perhaps its a combination, because it is not a chance, losing is not definite either, so when u lose enough, you get a "guaranteed win" but when this comes will depends on the seed. and there after, if all conditions are met promptly, then you hit that ultra prize. this is the only logical way that makes sense when chance is not involved.
i also believe there is an expiry time to this limit loss. if you don't try hard enough within the period, accumulated losses are forfeited out of the calculation cycle.


someone also mentioned about loot drops above...
the believe is that, there are categories for all drops / loot tables / like that of mobile games.
common drops no limit but rare drops like unique rings/ weapons / rare materials / rare blueprints has a finite circulation
if the system allows for 100 bps to be distributed , then only 100 blueprints will drop over time (applies to all rare / limited loot / materials )
if someone used up some mats or sold the BP to the TT, the system count drops, and the "loot" is re-introduced back into circulation awaiting for the next lucky person to score it.

this applies to unreal tokens and deed tokens that used to drop for CLD exchanges,
this applies to materials , BPs, and weapons

we dont know the limit MA set for this

if you want to test this theory it is possible, find out what what item is unique, and only ever one of, chuck it in the TT and wait for someone to get it.
if it does not re-circulate, it could be a very unique item that will ever drop only 1 copy of ever ,
but if it does, you know my theory is true.
then send in a report and ask ma to revert the accidental sale of the item, this will give them a head ache lol
good luck trying this out LMFAO

i am sorry you went broke after several ath's. its sad to see those trucking hat runs drove you broke. You are the pure example of how RISK OF RUIN can affect people, high bankroll ones.

 

[Alina]

Fun part the bp got 95% success rate that means also 95% return > every click they do 1 ped goes to MA.