Is this game only for millionaires now ?

Kerham

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This just gives you an idea of how much you are actually saving using armatrix limited weapons vs the lower efficiency counterparts. It also does not take into consideration how higher efficiency positively effects loot returns/composition.

You are not "saving" money. The only thing you are "saving" is damage. That is, you can kill more mobs.

That's all.

Let me break this news to you:

It's loot 2.0
 

BigPimping

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You are not "saving" money. The only thing you are "saving" is damage. That is, you can kill more mobs.

That's all.

Let me break this news to you:

It's loot 2.0

Well this is not correct there are nuanaces to the situation as a basic example imagine you have two guns an ul rifle that has 60 efficiency and a limited gun that has 74.3

Lets say the L gun breaks after 100 ped cycled fo simplicity, over that 100 ped cycle the L gun will give you an extra 1% tt return (not every gun but longterm averages) so over that 100 ped assuming around 28looter level its 97 ped back TT instead of 96 ontop of which higher efficiency generally equals higher dpp (not always gonig forward but for now it does) which means better loot comp so not only does each gun save/make you 1ped TT it also gives you better loot composition meaning you have more mu (assuming your mob choice is good) and more tt return.

So A vs B it absolutely saves/makes you money ofc people can do the math on L weapons and often sell them at rates that remove all of the advantage and then some but both efficiency and dpp do literally save you money just not in the same way as before.
 

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Hunting is a loss activity, at least at the lower and mid levels (can't speak for ubers). Unlike other professions, you already know ~80-85% of your loot is going to be 101% MU. Even hunting high MU mobs, you are only going to be able to boost your return by 1-2%.

This is simply not true. There are so many mobs , some in calypso some outside at mid level which gives 106%+ average markup. A little effort and research is needed of course to identify them.
 

Kerham

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Well this is not correct

It is correct what I said, because is about paradigms. The quoted post was reffering "brute" eco so to say, and that is simply irrelevant nowadays, solely by itself.

dmg/pec pre 2.0 gave money directly from the loot. Mobs used to pay the damage. Now mobs pay the costs.

Whenever we judge profitability, there are two separate directions:

- the ROI of the tt costs, where MU spent has a direct impact
- the ROI of the intrinsic stats of a weapon

Off the second cathegory we have efficiency and dmg/pec.

It is a matter of quantifying the differences. Your example simply doesn't exist. You don't compare UL at 60 with L at 74. You compare UL at 62 with L at 69. This is the reality. To get L over 72 you need L amps, which themselves add a buttload of MU.

So, in reality, we are talking about some 0.7-1% tt return longterm. The MU I pay for L (Lp-55+a106, rather cheap combo actually), is 2%. So switching to some acceptable ul (adj ep41 or adj mad) I would save 1%. I need what, 3-5 months to completely recover the investition.

As for loot composition, is true that is influenced by eco. But generally we don't have THAT eco difference between L and UL, I mean we're not talking here unamped breer M3a vs ArM lvl50+L amp+ares. Generally the choices are much more tight.
 

Alukat123

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The only truly Viable UL guns need to have a better efficiency rating than their Armatrix Counterparts. I did the math and for most of the Pre-Loot 2.0 unlimited weapons, the Armatrix series has them beat. You can pay up to 140% MU on Armatrix guns and you are still spending less Pec per Damage. For example, I will use the LR-35 and some comparable unlimited guns. All guns are un-amped with just their base DPP and the various levels of markup for the LR-35.


Name Decay Ammo Cost Dmg/PEC Markup
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.390 2.968 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.513 2.946 110%
Maddox IV Adjusted 3.450 700 10.450 2.926 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.636 2.924 120%
Isis LR53 Modified 3.991 1800 21.991 2.908 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.759 2.903 130%
CalyTrek CR Spirit MK.I 0.990 1394 14.930 2.886 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.882 2.882 140%
EWE EP-41 Military Adjusted 1.292 1200 13.292 2.876 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.944 2.871 145%
Maddox IV Adjusted 3.450 700 10.450 2.926 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 17.435 2.790 180%
Isis LR53 4.121 1800 22.121 2.796 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 17.435 2.790 185%


This just gives you an idea of how much you are actually saving using armatrix limited weapons vs the lower efficiency counterparts. It also does not take into consideration how higher efficiency positively effects loot returns/composition. As a crafter it angers me somewhat when I am selling below 120% MU and the player still asks for an even bigger discount on the weapon, because for a majority of the guns (between 50-59% efficiency) paying 120% is still huge savings.

For mobs that walk so slow that you can kite them backwards without them ever hitting you and that have no health regen at all, this may be true.

However, once you fight a running mob with health regeneration it gets more complicated, the double DPS provided by 10 damage enhancer maddox IV adjusted may grant you the better loot composition.

I'm doing team hunts with a friend pretty often and sometimes i even hunt that mob solo.
Friend uses ~57% efficiency sword and i'm using ~63% efficiency armatrix. We deal roughly the same DPS, so it's basically doubled DPS compared to me soloing that mob. Despite we having lower DPP/efficiency as team as i have solo, the loot composition is way better in team hunt than me soloing.

That extra DPS seems to cancel out enough life regen and armor/fap decay to reduce the kill costs enough to give better loot composition.

Same may hold true for 10 damage enhancer maddox vs armatrix LR-35 without enhancers.
10 damage enhancers is something you can do on UL guns "easily" but something that is very difficult to do on Armatrix (with the exception of UL FEN versions ofc).
 
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~ Cirrus ~

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I promised myself to stay out of here, but hey I'll throw a few pointers your way. Now remember that years of knowledge is incredibly valuable in this game, and is does take quite a lot of experimenting to find optimal efficiencies... GL

Rick

First I want to thank you for the time you spent to try to help.
And the same goes for everyone who did it here, I really do apreciate. :)

But now I hope I will not seem presumptuous by saying this:

I already knew all of this.

HP/protection Vs Mobs, for sure is very important, if not the most important thing.

You said you are high level but killed zombies in cat3 and got a 3K hof.
I did the same, I'm L61, so in cat5, but I killed zombies in cat3.
Got 3 small globals, and after only 1000 kills I was broke.. :rolleyes:

About selling the useless stuff in my storage.. I can assure you when I say I'm broke I'm totaly broke..
My storage is so empty that you can hear the echo of silence inside it.. :yup:

Anyway afterthought I think I know what is the main problem.

I skilled up pretty fast.
And I'm now at a level where I can't survive whith the same small budget than before.
Mobs are bigger, so cost to kill also...
I have to upgrade gears, bigger armor, bigger amp, etc..
I guess I have to stop believe that the way I play can always fit my level.

I think my biggest mistake was to think that I could beat the game, or beat the "rich" players by being smart. (as smart as I can, no more.. :dunce: )

You can't fight against the power of money, ingame same as in real life.. :wise:
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Depends... the average and medium levels are nowadays to levels of skill and ped turnover which would have been inconceivable in, say, 2008...

I liked the H400 in the past, and I remember I was hunting small Troxes whith H400/a103 like 10 years ago, and even did hit a nice fat loot whith it.

Now I just checked the stats of H400, and was surprised it was only L15 maxed.
It was so much more in my memories... :ahh:

So I think you're right on this, today's standards are not the same than before.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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The only truly Viable UL guns need to have a better efficiency rating than their Armatrix Counterparts. I did the math and for most of the Pre-Loot 2.0 unlimited weapons, the Armatrix series has them beat...

Are you telling that I'm already using the best option ?

You want me totaly desperate or what ? ;)
 

RickEngland

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First I want to thank you for the time you spent to try to help.
And the same goes for everyone who did it here, I really do apreciate. :)


I think my biggest mistake was to think that I could beat the game, or beat the "rich" players by being smart. (as smart as I can, no more.. :dunce: )

You can't fight against the power of money, ingame same as in real life.. :wise:

I have an emotional attachment to EU after so many years (it's like family to me, so I tend to forgive certain things) and I do enjoy skilling. Although becasue you never know if its cuddle time or kick in the nuts time, I've learnt to "let go". So I can take it, or leave it. I've put my years in of heavy depos, I just chill now.

You just need to find an activity that meets your budget, and push it hard on the bigger stuff for an hour or so and see how it flows...then fall back Then you will be much more happy. I went into the instances with "part" of my budget, with the mindset that I hunt for as long as that "part" budget will last. If it went, I was back to taming. But you got to be ruthless with yourself to maintain that approach. It does take a lot of will power.

Everyone has their own balance of cost v reward and I think MA knows that. I accepted long ago that even if I skilled to level 160, I couldn't afford to shoot level 160 weapons....hahaha. Play for entertainment, relax...its just a game.

Rick
 
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I think something that is really important is your mindframe when you are playing, and what you expect to get out of the game. I see so many of you here trying to achieve 'profit' vs the game. And I think that is very misguided. MA has changed a lot in the way loot works to prevent exactly that. So when you play it is all about minimizing losses. EU is deep down a glorified virtual casino, and we are just playing a very very complicated slot machine. The list I made earlier was just to show the cost output of various guns vs their armatrix counterpart. The less we put out, the less that we lose. I don't go hunting expecting to turn a profit, I go hunting trying to minimize my losses as much as possible while maximizing my potential return knowing that in all likelihood I am coming back with less than I started, and that's okay. Because I am enjoying the time I that I am doing whatever it is I am doing.
 

KokaBurra

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Try to stick with Animal Muscle Oil on lower mobs and go for spleen or heart oil if you go all in.
Bankroll is everything. Im level 58blp hit and i feel you i got same problems since i dont have big bank roll and nice ul gun i log in to check bonus dailys. Never go just for iron mission thats a lesson i paid for. Try to change youre set-up from my experience it gives best results. Good luck
 
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KokaBurra

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Try to stick with Animal Muscle Oil on lower mobs and go for spleen or heart oil if you go all in.
Bankroll is everything. Im level 58blp hit and i feel you i got same problems since i dont have big bank roll and nice ul gun i log in to check bonus dailys. Never go just for iron mission thats a lesson i paid for. Try to change youre set-up from my experience it gives best results. Good luck
 

mastermesh

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I think my biggest mistake was to think that I could beat the game, or beat the "rich" players by being smart. (as smart as I can, no more.. :dunce: )

You can't fight against the power of money, ingame same as in real life.. :wise:
It really depends on what you define as 'beat the game.' The endgame for everyone is a bit different. For some it's killing the highest hp mobs in game. For others it's surviving without depositing. For others it's simply getting to a hit ability of 10/10 for some weapon they've been wanting. For others it's getting high enough level to finally use that UL mining equipment they bought... For others it's affording that mall shop that they'll spend the rest of their virtual lives managing... etc.

If you came in hot and heavy and now are getting burned out, either downgrade your habits a bit, or find other options. There's a lot of different sides to this game, some of which don't cost the same amount per hour or day. For some that's taming. For some it's trading. For some it's being a beautician... for some it's simply sweating forever... or you can do as some do, and simply not log in for a while til you are ready financially and/or mentally, etc. to continue. Some, i hear only log in for Mayhem exclusively yearly and do nothing else all year long... others do similar for the migration... just remember to log in at least every once in a while so Mindark doesn't kill off the account.
 

LMTR14

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playing does seem to need more and more money, but partly that's also due to me levelling up

I could definitely be more effective with more money in the game. e.g. when I buy resources for the daily crafting missions. I don't have enough money to buy the lowest mu big stack every time, sometimes I have to settle for the small stack with a lil more mu. and to play the market you obviously need a really huge budget!

I don't think however that my bad returns in the last two mayhems have much to do with my gear or too little turnover, and more with the loot setting. severely disappointed with those
 

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Some people has 10 years experience and some has 1 years experience 10 times :D

And some people can only write plain asshole comments without contributing anything :D
 

Kerham

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Something which I forgot to mention is that your level (I am also there, give or take), is when costs really fly off. The more a mob costs per kill, the larger the sample needs to be, so something which is 20-30 peds or so per try is already pure fun where "anything" can happen because virtually nobody has the dps or bankroll to actually get the numbers.

As such, for me, for my own taste for risk, budget and such, bread and butter is 2-3 peds per kill, 5 peds per kill is a huge risk and 10+ is pure gambling when I feel lucky. All these options can be found within my skill reach, judging weapons needed and such.

Up to lvl40 or so is normal to always push, but at 50 is where you have to pull the handbreak and switch from always evolving to carving your grinding niche.

I feel the need to repeat what I said earlier: if 1500 peds last you (let's say) 5 days, then 15000 peds will only last you 50 days, nothing more, nothing less. You need to find that activity where, looking at the numbers, you're like always on the edge, but it should work out (e.g. not needing again a depo or smth very small very rare) if instead of 1500 you'd have 3k.
 

Detritus

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This is simply not true. There are so many mobs , some in calypso some outside at mid level which gives 106%+ average markup. A little effort and research is needed of course to identify them.

I think we are not talking about the same thing. I can find mobs with way more average MU than that *on the actual loot*. The problem is you loot 80%+ shrapnel, which is 101%. So that 106%+ average MU is only 106% on 20% of your loot. Unless I'm the only one who loots 80% shrap, which might in fact be the case.
 

wizz

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I think we are not talking about the same thing. I can find mobs with way more average MU than that *on the actual loot*. The problem is you loot 80%+ shrapnel, which is 101%. So that 106%+ average MU is only 106% on 20% of your loot. Unless I'm the only one who loots 80% shrap, which might in fact be the case.

80% @ 101%
20% weapon grips @ 130%

= 106,8%
 

BigPimping

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I think we are not talking about the same thing. I can find mobs with way more average MU than that *on the actual loot*. The problem is you loot 80%+ shrapnel, which is 101%. So that 106%+ average MU is only 106% on 20% of your loot. Unless I'm the only one who loots 80% shrap, which might in fact be the case.

its 106% inc their shrap......
 

Ferial

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its 106% inc their shrap......

Oh the horrors of seeing 106% excluding the shrapnel, I would have quit instantly if that was all I could get.

On topic, this game is not only for millionaires. You do have to play to your budget though, as well as make wise choices.

I think the skill pills and various leveling speed increases implemented recently has made it slightly harder to scale your bankroll along with your avatar and I think that pacing (or lack there of) is a big problem for many.

Just because your avatar can kill something, that doesn't mean it's necessarily the wise choice to do so :)
 

Tournament Spon

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shrapnel is too great a % of the loot but in this stage of the pull tabs in amount pulled and amount still being pulled it is as it must be.
 

BigPimping

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shrapnel is too great a % of the loot but in this stage of the pull tabs in amount pulled and amount still being pulled it is as it must be.

Read it three times understand only the first part which is wrong, if you have too much shrap get your dpp up or switch some other things around.
 

The NN 1977

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Learn how to.

First thing you need to do for yourself, is learning how to raise your ped-stack.
NOTE: it will cost you some dime to begin with, the right advice is worth a killing in entropia.
If you can afford the right advice, look me up, I am Vernius, Nocturnal Navigator, Roquen. And I charge 20k peds in order to give you some solid advice on as how to raise your pedstack, no further investment required, but what you pay me. So think hard now, 20k ped for someone who can help you help yourself, or you can go back to wasting several thousands on the system, PS: my record is 400k on the system, I wonder what yours will be before you're done?
Is all that really nescesary you ask? Ofcourse not, pay me and you're set for life.

Sincerely: The NN.
 

GoNi

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And I charge 20k peds in order to give you some solid advice on as how to raise your pedstack

Why does that sound like a scam, 20k PED for informations that can be found even in this forum for absolutely nil but some time?
 

Xavier_Jr

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No, its not. Billionaries, too. :cool::yay::yay:
 

wizz

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First thing you need to do for yourself, is learning how to raise your ped-stack.
NOTE: it will cost you some dime to begin with, the right advice is worth a killing in entropia.
If you can afford the right advice, look me up, I am Vernius, Nocturnal Navigator, Roquen. And I charge 20k peds in order to give you some solid advice on as how to raise your pedstack, no further investment required, but what you pay me. So think hard now, 20k ped for someone who can help you help yourself, or you can go back to wasting several thousands on the system, PS: my record is 400k on the system, I wonder what yours will be before you're done?
Is all that really nescesary you ask? Ofcourse not, pay me and you're set for life.

Sincerely: The NN.

money back guarantee?
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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Why does that sound like a scam, 20k PED for informations that can be found even in this forum for absolutely nil but some time?

Because it is. Check the last threads he created, it's the "4 billion dollars" guy.

Exhibit A
Exhibit B

It's absolutely 100% a scam, in case I wasn't clear enough.
 

Mega

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Because it is. Check the last threads he created, it's the "4 billion dollars" guy.

Exhibit A
Exhibit B

It's absolutely 100% a scam, in case I wasn't clear enough.



Dressing like a millionaire doesn't make you a millionaire. :wise:

Vernius / NN - you need to stop asking every player you meet for money, it's beyond tiresome.
 
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