Is this immoral?

yasic

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Ok, here is my ethical question:

I have tried to convice a few people at the sweating grounds to just find an hour of extra work a week and use the money to depo rather than spend 40 hours a week sweating. A lot of them refused on the basis that they want the game to be fully 'free' and not spend real life cash on it.

So I came up with another idea, I know another online game where if you play it you can make up to 26 cents an hour on it consistently (and it is in fact impossible to deposit or lose cash on this game). The game is, also in my opinion at least, much more fun to play then sweating consistently.

Would it be wrong for me to recommend that they play that game instead of sweating to make $10, and then cash out of that game, and buy gun + ammo in this game because it would take them about 2.5 times less time to get the same amount and have fun in this game sooner?
 

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Mega

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and it is in fact impossible to deposit or lose cash on this game
I'd wonder how long that game would survive given that scenario...
 

mastermesh

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hmmm...

wonder what game he's talking about? Pick up recycled can game?
 

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The persistent sweaters will enjoy their evade whenever they decide to actually play. Rather, I'd recommend any semi-oldies to take a week off and sweat once in a while - regardless of monetary status.
 

C4n

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I think of sweating as a fun alternative, i get skills and in the long run if i need some cash i can sell sweat. Its not really a chore or task for me but it does get boring.
 
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yasic

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I'd wonder how long that game would survive given that scenario...
3 years going strong. They have an interesting way of making money off of this.
 

Mega

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3 years going strong. They have an interesting way of making money off of this.
PM the name of it, I'm curious to see if I've heard of it. :)
 

yasic

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wonder what game he's talking about? Pick up recycled can game?
An online game where you play flash games against other people in exchange for cash. You get more if you win, less if you lose. I played myself for a month for the novelty.
 

Vincentino

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lol PM me with the name of the game :laugh:
 

SuperKanjo

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Respect for the hardcore sweaters, but i just can't see how someone can sweat for hours and hours while one hour of IRL work is the equivalent of 2+ weeks hardcore sweating (except when they have fun in doing it)

And the "other" game you suggested, 26 ct for one hour. We'll if it's fun it's worth a try. If not, i prefer IRL work.
 

yasic

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Respect for the hardcore sweaters, but i just can't see how someone can sweat for hours and hours while one hour of IRL work is the equivalent of 2+ weeks hardcore sweating (except when they have fun in doing it)

And the "other" game you suggested, 26 ct for one hour. We'll if it's fun it's worth a try. If not, i prefer IRL work.
I do too. I am not saying I don't occasionally sweat- I do... but not for money but for the fun of it (though I am doing it less and less and I havn't gotten through my first week yet :p)
 

Skam

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Hehe, immoral is perhaps a bit large a word.. But I wouldn't do it myself. EU needs its sweaters, and those who have taken on a non-depositing life in EU have probably given it some thought. Newcomers who think they'll make it without depositing but fails out of boredom will have gotten experiences being in that position, its all good ;)

Remember that a lot of players see the sweating as part of a personal challenge to make it in here without paying.

Personally, I've always been the kind that says "well f*ck it" if a game becomes overbearingly boring or the challenge is too frustrating and tough. -Because a game to me is supposed to be fun.
Its not that I give up; I'm a persistent bugger when it comes to other things in life; but when it comes to my free time I'd rather eliminate annoyances then fill my time with it. I think a lot of people think the same way.

But there are those who are more challenge driven, and I know quite a few: I understand it and find it quite respectable, even if their play style is very far from mine. A greater challenge might make the reward seem even sweeter.
 

yasic

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I can respect persistence for a good cause... but as another poster pointed out I will not respect someone who spends 2 weeks working to get 10 dollars from a tedious and silly task like this.

I mean, can you respect a person who spends 4 full days walking around new york, going to every possible vending machine and phone booth, looking for change so as to amass 7 bucks by the end of it...

Especially if they have a job that pays more than 7 dollars an hour?

That person has the persistence of a tree, yet I think we can all say he is far less than respectable.
 

kyleen

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U can suggest/recommend and its up to them whether they want to listen to it or not.
 

Skam

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Im not sure if you missed my point. For those who are doing these types of challenges it is not about the money but a personal challenge. :) The money is just a part of the challenge to make it in Entropia.

If they play and think like a persistent gamer, taking on a challenge: I can totally understand it. Much like boring grinding for levels in other games.

If they work to make money and really only want to play on a higher level, then their logic is flawed, I agree.

It all depends on how you see it; do you see the sweating as a tool to build your avatar in a medium, or do you wish to mix up this virtual medium with your real life? Not everyone wishes to -to some, a level of roleplay is what makes the game. -even if they do not roleplay directly. :)

Regarding picking up garbage in real life; there are so-called ARG's (Alternate Reality Games) out there that basically plays out as games [Entropia have actually been part of an Emmy-award winning ARG! (Link)] but in the platform that is real life.

In such games, you'll find clues and such in different medias or n different places in real life. I'm sure that those who are persistent ARG'ers would happily collect garbage if it meant to them that they'd figure out the next clue; even if someone might have already figured it out and posted it on some on-line forum.

For some, its all about the game :cool:
 

yasic

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Ok, I think I can see where you are coming from.

If they choose to sweat/trade for the sole purpose of seeing how high they can get their char, while I still find it odd to spend so much time on it, I can see how I can accept it.

If someone spends weeks upon weeks sweating, and realistically hopes to make more than a hundred bucks from this game in his life, then I have no possible respect for them ;)
 

KyrismaStarsong

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Ok, I think I can see where you are coming from.

If they choose to sweat/trade for the sole purpose of seeing how high they can get their char, while I still find it odd to spend so much time on it, I can see how I can accept it.

If someone spends weeks upon weeks sweating, and realistically hopes to make more than a hundred bucks from this game in his life, then I have no possible respect for them ;)
What does respect have to do with anything? That's the beauty of EU, everybody can play their own way, there is no wrong. Plus, I can totally see the personal satisfaction of being able to say that you did it without depositing. That's a huge accomplishment! Heck, even saying you did it with only a small depo of whatever...$10, $20 to get started is an accomplishment. I can't say that. In my view (honestly) claiming something like 2 months of straight sweating to bankroll an EU career should be a bragging point and would command my respect, especially in today's EU. :D

But yeah, back to the original post, not immoral but not doing EU any favors by discouraging sweating. ;)
 

yasic

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Meh, try as hard as I might, to think about it from every angle I can.... I just can't see how pointlessly waisting weeks of your life for a trivial non-needed activity so as to allow you to play a game that most of us get for just 10 bucks is respectable...
 

Dalas

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Here's a different angle for you, yasic.

I have been in EU for a very long time; 7 years last month to be exact. So, to put that in perspective sweating was introduced in November 2003, and I started in November 2002. So, I was here when sweating was introduced, had in fact already got some grounding in PE as it was then known, after a year. You haven't been in EU for a major update yet, but you can imagine being told by Mindark that in a few weeks they would introduce a new system which is free for newbies. Exciting times for anyone who was around then. Sweating was great, it was the new thing to be doing. One day it didn't exist, the next it did. At first it was mostly about money, but at some point I realised I actually loved sweating more than any other activity (apart from chatting) in EU!

In real life I was 13 when I started and 14 when sweating came, this little fact is important, as I am now 20 which means I have been active in EU through my teenage years, a time of great change in anyone's life. EU was always a constant to me, always there when I came home at nights which over the years made it become a real part of my life. Sweating was my way to chill out in the evenings, I did it with friends in a quiet spot where people could pass through, so we met quite a few new people, it wasn't totally isolated. I even met my (real life) girlfriend while sweating!

Basically, sweating became an integral part of my life, it has been there helping me relax, meet new people, giving me skills and of course helping my personal economy float through all these years. I stress it to experienced and new members alike how beneficial it is to sweat even just a bit on a regular basis, for various reasons. I even recently named it the "Biggest Untold Secret in EU" when asked.

I hope this angle sheds some light on a little history and why an old crone like myself is still loving it. I'll be glad to discuss it further with you if you like in PM.

Peace,
Dalas (the EU version of an "Ent")
 

vistalover

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Hey, could you PM me the name of it? Sounds very interesting, I will have to check it out! :laugh:
 

Coop_

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Meh, try as hard as I might, to think about it from every angle I can.... I just can't see how pointlessly waisting weeks of your life for a trivial non-needed activity so as to allow you to play a game that most of us get for just 10 bucks is respectable...
Here's an angle that maybe you haven't considered: the view of a new colonist to a strange world, arriving with nothing but the ugly orange clothes on her back.

How is this person to survive in such a world? How to meet people? How to make friends? How to determine which people might be worth getting to know better? How to earn a living? How to learn to control one's movements in this strange world? How to gain skillpoints that increase one's ability to defend herself?

Oh, there's an activity that can help solve all of these challenges: Sweating!

For some, the option of calling for help from IRL Earth negatively impacts their perception of their place in this virtual world. I've really not met anyone who sweats in order to somehow fund their IRL activities, that would be nuts, but to reinforce the sense of virtual reality in EU, it seems to work for a bunch of people.
 

wizz

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Did anybody perhaps calculate how much you earn with 1 hour of sweating?

Just to compare it with the 26cents of the other game.


Even if it turns out to be 5 cts an hour I would not play the other game for 26cts.

At work I make over 100 times as much, so I'd rather work 1 hour extra so I dont have to play the other game for 100 hours.

The 99 hours I save with a real job I can spend on playing entropia, maybe even sweating...just for fun :rolleyes:
 

Ragewalker

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Sweating works for alot of people. You cannot deny that, and if that is how they wish to play the game thats thier deciscion.:)

Nobody is slamming you for depositing.... Are they?:scratch2:
 
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