It's time to make a statement

Killahbee

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Time for a statement?

It’s been plenty of time since the yog buff came to light.
The economic damage the yog buff has done to the game is big, Jun 17, 2020 was the last update we’ve had: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/yog-pet-buff-issue.272776/. Here you stated the following:
“We will be conducting this investigation over the next few weeks, with the intention of increasing the prize rewards for any participants who were pushed down in the final standings due to another higher-placing participant benefitting from the unintended pet buff.”
It amazes me that DannyO who used an official TP chip to make some skills was banned within a week and stripped of all MF skills without ANY form of communication to him but people that have potentially abused the yog buff for YEARS receive no punishment AT ALL.

“ MindArk has decided it would be unfair and impractical to punish participants who directly or indirectly benefited from the unintended buff.”
No one would use a mining pet in mayhem for the full duration, easy to spot. Check how many times the same pet changed hands (by the same group of players). Easy to check.

So we're roughly 2 months further, no statements, nothing. Why was DannyO so severely punished but this big group of players can walk away? Money talks? If you set an example by punishing someone like that doing nothing makes no sence.

I honestly try to believe you and your team have immense passion for this game. It's not just a cash cow for you. But undeniably, it's that too. And, frankly, that's just business, which I can respect. MA is a company, they have to finance servers, development, etc. I get it.

But you gotta understand that when we're going for an extended period of time with these concerns and then not only are they ignored but we're given some half-baked, half-empty statement instead...well, then statements like these... (AMA statement posted many times)

We want to avoid making similar mistake by revealing plans before we are certain that they will be implemented in a certain way. As with all of our design decision, it always comes down to a question of allocating our limited resources and manpower to the most important projects that benefit the greatest number of participants
...are a massive understatement.

The recent statements about communication say it you listen to theplayer-base and I'd be interested to hear what the community thinks. Is there a solution to this problem that doesn't hurt MA financially?
 

Xavier_Jr

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Interesting, however, do you think that the game's database can store how many times you take out your pet or equip your weapon from your personal storage? Or at least how long do you use your pet or your weapon within any time range?

Do you think they have designed the database to that level of detail? Do you have any idea how much the hardware would cost to store that level of detail of information? I think they don't have the information for that. And that's why I think they can't do more than what they have offered..

:(
 
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You have to feel the payn of those that bought them to epxloit now they can no use them and worth 10% what the was :)
 

Hego Damask

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Interesting, however, do you think that the game's database can store how many times you take out your pet or equip your weapon from your personal storage? Or at least how long do you use your pet or your weapon within any time range?

Do you think they have designed the database to that level of detail? Do you have any idea how much the hardware would cost to store that level of detail of information? I think they don't have the information for that. And that's why I think they can't do more than what they have offered..

:(
They were able to select those players who had active YOG in this summer mayhem, so probably they can select those players who had them active in past mayhems, the only question is, how long they store this kind of information.
If they said, they will compensate those, who may get less reward because of a YOG user placed better than him, i would guess they still have the ability to check those old logs.
 

Xavier_Jr

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They were able to select those players who had active YOG in this summer mayhem, so probably they can select those players who had them active in past mayhems, the only question is, how long they store this kind of information.
If they said, they will compensate those, who may get less reward because of a YOG user placed better than him, i would guess they still have the ability to check those old logs.
It's exactly what I don't think Mindark can do. MA can only know if players had it in their inventory, but not if they had it active. Because the storage of such information detail would be very large and expensive.
 
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Legends

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What MA should do I think is to make a list of people who abused the exploit. Write down names and number of Mayhem and number of runs that the exploit was used. For example player A used the Yog exploit to complete 3 runs in Cat 4 of Merry Mayhem 2019, then again during Easter Mayhem, this time, player A completed 4 runs in Cat 5.

Player A now has to 'repay' this unfair advantage. By imposing on him a handicap of say 5,000 points for the next 7 Mayhem runs he/she completes.

For example this player A now goes to Halloween Mayhem and completes 3 runs. All of his scores for these 3 runs will have 5,000 points deducted from them. Then player A does 4 runs during Merry Mayhem 2020. Again, all of his scores will have 5,000 points deducted. So if Player A would have finished in 2nd place for example because his score was very good, once the 5,000 points are deducted, he/she will not even likely be in the top 10.

I think this should be simple enough to do, there's no programming required for this. MA just needs to make a list and they can review all the top 10 avatars in the Mayhem and 'correct' the scores manually.

I believe this would be a fair way of dealing with it. MA likely doesn't want to ban anyone from participating in the Mayhem, but allowing exploiters to get away with things like this without any punishment sends a bad message.

Legends
 
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NoBion

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I agree with killahbee on all aspects.

Its not good enough punishing a old player who cheated, with so severe sanctions and then a bunch of people right afterwards that are exactly as bad or worse with their cheating by just reseting their scores. What kind if signal is that to send out?

Someone is laughing their ass off with their tiny punishment while others are crying, suffering high economical and years of work in punishment. Thats not fair.
 

Xavier_Jr

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Being the devil's advocate, I must say difference between the punishment of DannyO and the Yog users is that having an official mindark tool in your inventory is in itself illegal, besides in the DannyO case its use was verified in a screenshot. On the other hand, having a Yog in inventory or using it is not illegal. Also being that there is not enough detail in the registers of database to prove a intentional cheat, it would explain the decision of Mindark about Yog users case. (Because if Mindark acted otherwise, it could mistake the righteous for sinners.)

That's my two cents
 
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Three

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What is this about Mini Dr.Peppers? Where?
 

vilfiina

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Mindark made money on that buff, players were loosing.

When Mindark is making money, there is no reason to punish. There will be no punishment for that exploit and it is your decision if you want to deposit and participate on Mayhems in the future. Vote with your wallet, that is the only way to make Mindark change.

But...since Entropia is living on hardcore addicts playing EP4 game, everything else is just peanuts.
 

Rocket192

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imagine expecting MA to come out and ban 60% of their top-20 depositors, including the entire botting soc that cycles 24/7 to appease maybe 200 people that deposit, at most, $50 per month, some of who don't even play the game anymore.

financially, MA should just ghost us all and never talk about the yog again.

ethically they should have handed out 1-year bans/locks (but they don't want to get sued again)
 

Rick Sanchez

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But have you heard about small Dr Pepper exploit? It is claimed that when you drink 10 of them during twitch stream it gives reload speed to your credit card and you can deposit faster.
totally unfair advantage, i hear that if your dexterity is high enough you can start on your 2nd DP while your first is still active. how are the lower levels ever supposed to compete with that kind of ped cycling?
 

Mathilda

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whaaaat?? Mindark said they would do something and then it never happened, so uncharacteristic of them.
 

Xavier_Jr

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> 1+1=7 :)
> No! It is 2. Because 1 is half of 2. And two halves is unity!
> Ok!!, Then, 1+1=7. Is it not? :confused:
>
:cautious:
 
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imagine expecting MA to come out and ban 60% of their top-20 depositors, including the entire botting soc that cycles 24/7 to appease maybe 200 people that deposit, at most, $50 per month, some of who don't even play the game anymore.

financially, MA should just ghost us all and never talk about the yog again.

ethically they should have handed out 1-year bans/locks (but they don't want to get sued again)
Mindarks have already said what will happen. Nothing will change. You have to feel the payn of all those who loss money and prizes thogh :(
 

mastermesh

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...are a massive understatement.

The recent statements about communication say it you listen to theplayer-base and I'd be interested to hear what the community thinks. Is there a solution to this problem that doesn't hurt MA financially?
No, there is not... Vote with your pocket book. If you don't think what they did or are doing is 'good enough for you' stop depositing, or if you already heave massive amounts in game just withdrawal it all. No solution will please everyone, so no, there is not a solution to the proclem that won't have some type of economic impact on Mindark... (and yes, even those that think enough was done and want to continue to deposit are in a way financially hurting Mindark potentially, lol)
 

RickEngland

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I used to have my main pet spawned all the time, on the highest buff "purely to gain xp". Even if the activity i was undertaking, had no relation to the buff. (Not a yog BTW)

So unless a player publically admitted they were exploiting, or admitted they were aware of an exploit and took advantage of it; then how can you prove the player "knowingly" abused the system?

Under that situation it would be difficult to punish a player for a coding error. The second defense is, "if i have my pet spawned all the time, how would I see an advantage?"

We could speculate all we like and suggest the player/s "were aware", but does anyone have evidence to justify that claim?

Rick.
 

Mega

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I used to have my main pet spawned all the time, on the highest buff "purely to gain xp". Even if the activity i was undertaking, had no relation to the buff. (Not a yog BTW)

So unless a player publically admitted they were exploiting, or admitted they were aware of an exploit and took advantage of it; then how can you prove the player "knowingly" abused the system?

Under that situation it would be difficult to punish a player for a coding error. The second defense is, "if i have my pet spawned all the time, how would I see an advantage?"

We could speculate all we like and suggest the player/s "were aware", but does anyone have evidence to justify that claim?

Rick.
chat logs
 

Rumsponge

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Since MA makes their money off of decay, they need keep logs of everything that you are using that causes it to decay. That is how they know exactly how much to charge you at the repair terminal. Since pets “decay” and are ”repaired” by feeding them nutrio bars, there is most likely a log of that, too.
 

Xavier_Jr

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chat logs
Very interesting, but.... :unsure:

The chat logs could be useful, however such logs are on the client computer because surely Mindark was never interested in saving them on the Mindark´s server. And this could most likely be due to security and privacy issues of people's information.

The most optimal could be if the complaining players have screenshots and records of their chats where in specific cases with the name of each cheater could be verified the knowledge, intention and execution of cheating and also the event in was ocurred.

On the other hand, what I am sure of is that Mindark should have already compensated all players of such events that did not have Yogs in their inventories. If they haven't already done so, they should do so immediately.
 
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Xavier_Jr

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Since MA makes their money off of decay, they need keep logs of everything that you are using that causes it to decay. That is how they know exactly how much to charge you at the repair terminal. Since pets “decay” and are ”repaired” by feeding them nutrio bars, there is most likely a log of that, too.
I'm sure the current decomposition status attribute does exist for every object, but most likely does not exist records of all decompositions that occurred over time.
Because It would be very expensive to sustain and mostly useless, as it is cheaper to compensate those who lost some money in a specific error than to sustain such an onerous database design over time.
 

Mega

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Mindark knows full well who exploit and cheat, they also know how to use their logs to prove it.

If they choose to ignore support cases about exploits & also choose to ignore videos of macros and bots which most of us have seen. That is their choice.

I think they are making a mistake, but all businesses make mistakes. Microsoft Made Windows 8.0, Sony made the Minidisc.


Make too many mistakes and its 'Goodnight Vienna' :wave:
 

Xavier_Jr

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If they choose to ignore support cases about exploits & also choose to ignore videos of macros and bots which most of us have seen. That is their choice.

Make too many mistakes and its 'Goodnight Vienna' :wave:

Yes, the problem here was ignoring support cases and not responding to them. (y)

I think they have the power to be the sole interpreters of their EULA and TOU.
But they must clarify why they understand "this" and not "the other", to clarify the points well. (Since people can also assume as a violation something that is not such, but it is necessary for MA to clarify it and thus avoid making people angry.)

However, in this particular case from Yogs, MA has recognized it as a Yog Pet Buff Issue, but blamed its support department for not giving it the information in time. The rest we already know. They do not have information to know who benefited from Yog error it in full competition.

:wtg:
 

Dalas

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2 years of worse placements than necessary kind of hurt. Almost lost faith in competing in Mayhem, thought I was missing something. The list of Mayhems where I or someone in my family have been pushed down the list due to foul play is pretty long and compensation would be sweet...
 

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I'm sure the current decomposition status attribute does exist for every object, but most likely does not exist records of all decompositions that occurred over time.
Because It would be very expensive to sustain and mostly useless, as it is cheaper to compensate those who lost some money in a specific error than to sustain such an onerous database design over time.
Remember that this is their actual income stream. It would be silly for them not to. Like any other business, they are subject to audits and reviews. Also, you have to remember that this isn’t Fortnite, WoW, or even EVE. The number of active players at any given time really isn’t that high.
 

Xavier_Jr

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Remember that this is their actual income stream. It would be silly for them not to. Like any other business, they are subject to audits and reviews. Also, you have to remember that this isn’t Fortnite, WoW, or even EVE. The number of active players at any given time really isn’t that high.
The community of players may not be so big at the moment. But I don't think they designed a game 17 years ago thinking they weren't going to grow to be big! In addition, the number of times actions are performed and decays are generated over time for just one player could be immense (multiple weapons, tools, armor, clothing, vehicles, etc.).

Also look only at the accounts in this forum over time and there are 56 thousand. (And we all know that not everyone enters to this forum and that such a number could represent only a small fraction of total players over time.)

Really, I don't think Mindark lied to us on this matter. Simply that MA has not been able to determine it as they have stated. Rather, I think they should rush to compensate the afected Mayhem players just as they said, in case they haven't already. :)
 

Hego Damask

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2 years of worse placements than necessary kind of hurt. Almost lost faith in competing in Mayhem, thought I was missing something. The list of Mayhems where I or someone in my family have been pushed down the list due to foul play is pretty long and compensation would be sweet...
Most probably its not the cat4 the one that was full of yog users, you probably lost nothing.
 

Dalas

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Most probably its not the cat4 the one that was full of yog users, you probably lost nothing.
You don't lose if you never had it in the first place. I know I've at least missed out on a lot for various reasons like this Yog business, alts etc...
 
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