Joysticks and steering wheels

[Phil Surtees]

We now have a selection of vehicles in the game, and this is a good thing. What we need now is a better way to drive or fly. The AWAD keyset is an an on/off input, I want to see joysticks that allow a smooth operation experience.
I don't know much about cryengine, but this kind of HID input is pretty much standard, and I think it could be implemented easily.
If done well, this would open up a new world of possibilities. I used to be a sim-racer, and can testify that the urge to race exists everywhere, even on Calypso. Racing events could eventually be added, but enabling better hid input tools is the first step.
And if you think I'm kidding, I paid 700 usd for my steering wheel in 2004, and it's not the most expensive device available at all. Racers are nuts.

 

[Wody]

Such devices are against the terms of use, specifically the 'no interference' section of the EULA, since such devices influence the entropia universe when used. Only a standard keyboard and mouse are allowed, anything else that can influence anything such as macros, auto-clicking, external programs or devices (which includes but is not limited to joysticks and wheels etc) are not allowed.

 

[Majandi]

Such devices are against the terms of use, specifically the 'no interference' section of the EULA, since such devices influence the entropia universe when used. Only a standard keyboard and mouse are allowed, anything else that can influence anything such as macros, auto-clicking, external programs or devices (which includes but is not limited to joysticks and wheels etc) are not allowed.

Why do you think he/she wrote the post? :/

--

+1 for gamepad compatibility!

 

[coffeeman]

I don't see how this is against the EULA and I'd like to see an official ruling from MA on this. The section you mention does not specifically mention controllers and as I see it, there's nothing I can do with a gamepad that I couldn't already do with a mouse and keyboard. I wouldn't have to interfere with the universe or the game at all really.

In fact, there are gaming mice out there that would be undetectable to EU that would give someone a lot more of an advantage than, say, an xbox 360 remote.

What do we have to do to get MA to comment on this?

 

[Wody]

I don't see how this is against the EULA and I'd like to see an official ruling from MA on this.

Section 3.1 of the End User License Agreement (which I said in the game too, as a community adviser, and from experience with support. But if you want to make for sure, and get an official ruling, make a support-case and ask them)

 

[safara]

Such devices are against the terms of use, specifically the 'no interference' section of the EULA, since such devices influence the entropia universe when used. Only a standard keyboard and mouse are allowed, anything else that can influence anything such as macros, auto-clicking, external programs or devices (which includes but is not limited to joysticks and wheels etc) are not allowed.

I cant find any reference of only using a "keyboard" and "mouse" in the TOU.

Which bit are you looking at?

 

[safara]

Where is the "End User License Agreement" ?

I have found the TOU before the Client Loader.

 

[Mariko Ninja]

Such devices are against the terms of use, specifically the 'no interference' section of the EULA, since such devices influence the entropia universe when used. Only a standard keyboard and mouse are allowed, anything else that can influence anything such as macros, auto-clicking, external programs or devices (which includes but is not limited to joysticks and wheels etc) are not allowed.

I think it's clear the OP wants FPC or MA to make it available, so players can use it.
And you might want to read section 3.1 from the EULA again.

3.1 Prohibition to Interfere with the Entropia Universe System

You may not analyze, hack into, interrupt, redirect or in any other way affect or interfere with any data and/or network communication to or from the Entropia Universe System, the Entropia Universe servers, clients, websites and systems, as well as not use any other software than the Entropia Universe Client to interpret or affect data sent to or from the Entropia Universe server and client systems. You may also not replicate or in any other way falsely portray the Entropia Universe.

You may not use, launch or install any third party software, device or techniques that MindArk deems, at MindArk’s sole discretion, to be possible to use for collecting information from the Entropia Universe System or servers, constituting “cheating” and/or affecting the Entropia Universe in any way. This includes, without limitation, if possible to use for affecting the Entropia Universe System interface, the Entropia Universe environment, components, balancing and/or the Participant’s experience. MindArk reserves the right to revoke this limitation either generally or in specific cases.

Where is the "End User License Agreement" ?

I have found the TOU before the Client Loader.

http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/eula.xml

Links can be found on the ToU on the client loader.

 

[Haxtor moogle]

so is my 3d head tracking system and nia agents the eula?

 

[Wody]

so is my 3d head tracking system and nia agents the eula?

A visual device, such as 3d glasses etc, do not influence what happens in the universe, they only give a different view etc. So such a thing would be allowed. But if it were to control your avatar, for example the avatars head moves when you move your head, that influences the universe, and so is not allowed (unless of course you would need it for some medical reason or something and got permission from support for it).

 

[coffeeman]

I'm sure that's what the OP was asking for, but I hijacked the thread since this is actually doable today via software. The only reason I can see for them to not enable this directly in the game is simply not wanting to test it since other Cryengine games support it. I would have agreed that it wasn't important to ahve in this game up until they added vehicles.

And yes, I did read that section in the EULA, and again I don't see how mapping a button on a gamepad to a function is any different than mapping one of the 6 mouse buttons that MA assumes everyone has to an ingame function, or mapping a key on my keyboard to a function, or for that matter using the intelipoint sotware (which my keyboard requires to function correctly) to re-map a key on the keyboard to another key, or simply buying a different keyboard or mouse (which would certainly "affect" the "Participant's experience". Regardless of what I'm mapping it to, it's all the same basic funtion of mapping hardware buttons to an ingame action. There are any number of hardware devices which would give much more of an advantage than the simple act of mapping.

The only thing that section of the EULA realy says is that MA can arbitrarily determine that ANY piece of software on your computer (including the game itself, windows, your computer, mouse, or anything else attached to or installed on yourcomputer) violates that section of the EULA.

And I'm asking here, because frankly I'm underwhelmed with the support I get from the support folks, and I am hoping that someone from MA or FPC will actually read, comment, and provide some insight.

 

[safara]

Thanks Mariko

I dont see any mention in there prohibiting the use of a joystick or steering wheel....

 

[Wody]

Thanks Mariko

I dont see any mention in there prohibiting the use of a joystick or steering wheel....

From section 3.1:

You may not use, launch or install any third party device ... affecting the Entropia Universe in any way.

 

[aridash]

From section 3.1:

You may not use, launch or install any third party device ... affecting the Entropia Universe in any way.

yet it doesnt explicity allow or exclude from prohibition mouse and keyboard... so they are against the EULA too.

i think what the OP is asking for is that MA implement changes so that wheel device would even be any use. as it is, i doubt you'd see any benefit from analogue over digital input.

 

[Blake Seven]

From section 3.1:

You may not use, launch or install any third party device ... affecting the Entropia Universe in any way.

The primary interface of such devices is with the PC and the operating system generally in the same way that the mouse and keyboard do so. EU then interfaces with the PC to interpret the signals from the devices. If you wish to consider joysticks etc. against the TOU/EULA then you must ban all inputs, in fact just don't bother playing at all.

If I were to believe everything I read here sometimes or hear spouted to new players at the Marina TP I would surely eventually get to learn that breathing is contrary to the TOU/EULA.

I bet you wouldn't have said this to the PA newbies if your beloved Hanne was in ear shot in as you would most likely be in breach of TOS clause 8k

 

[Wollongong]

Section 3.1 of the End User License Agreement (which I said in the game too, as a community adviser, and from experience with support. But if you want to make for sure, and get an official ruling, make a support-case and ask them)

I think this thing is in the suggestions list. So it would involve making any necessary alterations (if any) to the EULA.
However, a joystick changes the Universe just as much as a keyboard does. So I do not think it is a violation.

 

[Mariko Ninja]

From section 3.1:

You may not use, launch or install any third party device ... affecting the Entropia Universe in any way.

Sorry Wody but your wrong. What section 3.1 is about is gaining an unfair advantage by using anything interfering with the Entropia Universe System.

3.1 Prohibition to Interfere with the Entropia Universe System

You may not analyze, hack into, interrupt, redirect or in any other way affect or interfere with any data and/or network communication to or from the Entropia Universe System, the Entropia Universe servers, clients, websites and systems, as well as not use any other software than the Entropia Universe Client to interpret or affect data sent to or from the Entropia Universe server and client systems. You may also not replicate or in any other way falsely portray the Entropia Universe.

You may not use, launch or install any third party software, device or techniques that MindArk deems, at MindArk’s sole discretion, to be possible to use for collecting information from the Entropia Universe System or servers, constituting “cheating” and/or affecting the Entropia Universe in any way. This includes, without limitation, if possible to use for affecting the Entropia Universe System interface, the Entropia Universe environment, components, balancing and/or the Participant’s experience. MindArk reserves the right to revoke this limitation either generally or in specific cases.

What it means is that you are allowed to use an joystick, as long as it does not increase you avatar speed, vehicle speed, attacks per minute. Since an joystick is an normal input device to control your avatar they can’t forbid anyone from using one. If they did, they would have to ban some disabled people I know. Some use an special joysticks that emulates an mouse.
However since they do not use it to gain a unfair advantage over other players, it is allowed.

I think that's why Mindark did not do anything against auto clickers in the past, they did not increase the return rate. It made it only possible to leave the avatar crafting while the player
went to work.

This section deals with hacking and/or cheating and not the normal use of any of these devices.

Anyway the OP is asking Mindark to implement the use of an joystick as an input device.

 

[safara]

From section 3.1:

You may not use, launch or install any third party device ... affecting the Entropia Universe in any way.

Cool.

So, as mentioned, how do you play the game without using a PC, internet connection, mouse, keyboard, eyes, fingers etc etc?

 

[CB DiNozzo]

Well I use this program that maps my joystick movement to a key.

eg: Moving the stick forward tells the computer to press W. Backwards: S. etc.

It doesn't give me any advantage over a keyboard technically, as the movement is not variable, the key is either 'on' or 'off'.

However, being a pilot IRL and an avid flight simmer, I thought I would give it a shot with my joystick.
All I'm doing is pressing keys without a keyboard. How is this against EULA?

 

[jod]

Joysticks are not against the EULA.

They will in fact be compatible with space flight as you can hear in the audio of this vid by starfinder.