Karma comes back around.....

Mischief

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Interesting info Sara.

You got "Fair" after your first kill. After that you have killed a few more "Good" ships than "Rude" ones if we count "Neutral" as being good ships. So you really should have gained a "Rude" state.
However, if you between your first kill and the second went hunting for Space mobs they would have gained you more of your initial karma, IE "Fair".
So question is, did you hunt space mobs to strengthen your initial "Fair" karma?
 

Sara Serenity

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I did do a bit of gunning down the space horror when they came out I think I vaped about 10 or 15.

Something to note though I did lose the "Fair" status once. I went to a Blank "Neutral" I thought this was a Bug or something because It only lasted a few Hours. In that Time I had Shot down a Stray Slapper that Crossed my Path between Ark and NI.

So perhaps the Horrors did strengthen my "Fair" status after that?

Pehaps I need to more Negative Karma Kills to Increase it to Change "Fair" to something else?

Sorry there is a correction here. "The stray Slapper" was actually the "Normandie" and kills two, three and four happened in the same sortie. Just to correct it... I was Hunting Horrors After what Was an Uneventful Patrol. two stations away from NI when I closed over the Far high Asteroid to Find the Normandie and a Two Slep hunting party.
 
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Mischief

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I did do a bit of gunning down the space horror when they came out I think I vaped about 10 or 15.

Something to note though I did lose the "Fair" status once. I went to a Blank "Neutral" I thought this was a Bug or something because It only lasted a few Hours. In that Time I had Shot down a Stray Slapper that Crossed my Path between Ark and NI.

So perhaps the Horrors did strengthen my "Fair" status after that?

Pehaps I need to more Negative Karma Kills to Increase it to Change "Fair" to something else?

Quite possible. I did some horror hunting as well and got Karma points added every third mob or so.
So if you want to change from "Fair" to "Rude" I'd say you got some poor pawns to blast. Or you could keep on being on the fair side killing rudes just to see how many you need to get the next rank in line. :)
 

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Oh Not to want to Change my Karma Title..

But I thought as I could recall most of my kills I thought that this would help with analysis of of the Karma system...

hope it does help shed some light.
 

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I did do a bit of gunning down the space horror when they came out I think I vaped about 10 or 15.

Something to note though I did lose the "Fair" status once. I went to a Blank "Neutral" I thought this was a Bug or something because It only lasted a few Hours. In that Time I had Shot down a Stray Slapper that Crossed my Path between Ark and NI.

So perhaps the Horrors did strengthen my "Fair" status after that?

Pehaps I need to more Negative Karma Kills to Increase it to Change "Fair" to something else?

Sorry there is a correction here. "The stray Slapper" was actually the "Normandie" and kills two, three and four happened in the same sortie. Just to correct it... I was Hunting Horrors After what Was an Uneventful Patrol. two stations away from NI when I closed over the Far high Asteroid to Find the Normandie and a Two Slep hunting party.

I have 2 points to add to this.

1) Shooting down the Normandie could never have made you go from neutral to fair. Normandie has always had a fair tag and so would have turned you Rude.

2) as you PK other ships you do not always get the same "score" some ships give you +or- 1 Karma and some give you +or- 10 Karma. So if for instance you are neutral and get a +10 Karma going Fair. you would have to shoot 10 ships that give you a -1 Karma to get back to neutral.

Regards Tesh
 

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Oh Not to want to Change my Karma Title..

But I thought as I could recall most of my kills I thought that this would help with analysis of of the Karma system...

hope it does help shed some light.

I'm sure it will when the really good thinkers read up on this.
My picture is getting clearer at least, make sure your next kill is a horror mob or a rude ship. I think you're on the edge ;)

Thanks for input, Sara :)
 

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Thanks Teshik,

The "neutral" I refered to was after this incident with the ambush. Bearing in Mind I only had one kill Prior to this Event.

I am guessing that Blue Arrow Tags are Good guys and Grey/white are Neutrals and Reds being Bads and Redwith a Green Bar is a team mate?

So quite possible that the Ambush did turn me back to Neutral? or maybe it was a Bug?
 

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Had an interesting conversation with a Commendable ship owner tonight.

He has tracked the order to -
Fair - upstanding - Kind -Respectable- Good - Honorable- Honest - Commendable (prominent is somewhere in there also)

Mainly through hunting mobs, never pk'ing.




There is something else changing the ships reps as well we need to work out - why it will change depending on your passenger. What is it about them that changes it? Seems to be players who have been playing longer, could it be agility? We have looked at promo rating and pvp achievements but they dont tally up.

All so very interesting ;) If only we had a rep counter, make this alot easier! :cool:
 
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Alainax

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Thanks Teshik,

The "neutral" I refered to was after this incident with the ambush. Bearing in Mind I only had one kill Prior to this Event.

I am guessing that Blue Arrow Tags are Good guys and Grey/white are Neutrals and Reds being Bads and Redwith a Green Bar is a team mate?

So quite possible that the Ambush did turn me back to Neutral? or maybe it was a Bug?

Ah so quite possibly you lost your fair and went back to neutral after shooting a fair ship? and then shooting the space mobs will have taken you back to fair. That makes sense :)

Blue is alseep or in the back seat.
Green is the same as you ( so if your rude etc you see other rudes as green).
Red is the opposite to you.
A stripey triangle is team / friend ( with the underside part of the triangle depending on thier ships tag. )
 

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......:)

Ah so quite possibly you lost your fair and went back to neutral after shooting a fair ship? and then shooting the space mobs will have taken you back to fair. That makes sense :)

Blue is alseep or in the back seat.
Green is the same as you ( so if your rude etc you see other rudes as green).
Red is the opposite to you.
A stripey triangle is team / friend ( with the underside part of the triangle depending on thier ships tag. )

Didn't someone mention there was a "bug" in that tagging of quads also?..I think I read that..So in doubt basically..Don't shoot blue tags..:cool: :wise:
 

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...There is something else changing the ships reps as well we need to work out - why it will change depending on your passenger. What is it about them that changes it? Seems to be players who have been playing longer, could it be agility? We have looked at promo rating and pvp achievements but they dont tally up.

All so very interesting ;) If only we had a rep counter, make this alot easier! :cool:

Hm...had a 65k player on board the other day. Didn't change ship rank. He's like Agi 65 or something...
On the other hand. Transported someone down from Kronan last week, and that made ship go to "Upstanding". If I could remember who it was...Sara something... :scratch2:
 

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Hm...had a 65k player on board the other day. Didn't change ship rank. He's like Agi 65 or something...
On the other hand. Transported someone down from Kronan last week, and that made ship go to "Upstanding". If I could remember who it was...Sara something... :scratch2:

:scratch2: indeed....

I suppose this one will be easy enough to test, just need a bunch of different passengers to get in the ships and work out what is changing it.
 

Teshik

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Didn't someone mention there was a "bug" in that tagging of quads also?..I think I read that..So in doubt basically..Don't shoot blue tags..:cool: :wise:

Not quite true Rose .... A blue tag means there is no pilot in the ship. so if the pilot uses the "next vehicle seat" action button to jump to the back seat then the ships triangle turns blue.

Most people that say there is a bug with the triangles dont understand how they work.

:scratch2: indeed....

I suppose this one will be easy enough to test, just need a bunch of different passengers to get in the ships and work out what is changing it.


I think that Possibly it has something to do with players reputation skills.. Quite possibly the Promoter Rateing Aswell. I have reputation 1001 (only done one event and soc mate repped me :p). When i am in my quad alone it is Fair. I asked someone who has 1106 to get in my quad and it went to Upstanding. When we were both in it together it was Respectable.

So that seems to point towards it being both ships rep value + avatar rep value of all the crew not just the pilot. Though Alaina says that PK acheivements doesn't seem to have an impact on the "tag" it may do so in a small amount.

Regards Tesh
 
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raynebowdragon

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lol so if your a Pirate and want to raise the neg tag you go out of your way to get as many -reps as you can :D

I went to fair after shooting on Horror young, he hit me backa bit hard and a I crapped myself and bolted for repairs
after not shooting a single thing but that Horror young my rep jumped to fair.

After blowing up my first Slep (excluding avatar kill) my rank changed to rude thats was after killing the one horror and nothing more

So Horror kill 1 = fair
slep destruction 1 = Rude
Nothing in between

Thats either going to confuse the issue more or help so there you go
 

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Did you read my post or just copy and paste it?

Fine, you want people to go up there and get pk'ed so they can learn about karma. That's ok, it's what you do and I'm not opposing that.

About my post I said that we don't learn about karma by knowing about who killed who. That is still true. We learn about karma by knowing what happens when "bad" kills "good" and vice versa. That doesn't necessarily involves taking part in the actual killing. If those that enjoys and practice pk'ing in space cold holster their guns for a minute or 2 and share what they have discovered we would get the answer faster.

Just curious on how your going to work how good and bad karma work, if you don't know who killed who and what their occupation is outside of the space craft or if they ever get out of the Space craft at all.

To know that and work out the reason why a karma changed or not changed when shooting that person down, you need to know who killed freakin who!!!

CYU in Space
 

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Oh No...

Not quite true Rose .... A blue tag means there is no pilot in the ship. so if the pilot uses the "next vehicle seat" action button to jump to the back seat then the ships triangle turns blue.

Most people that say there is a bug with the triangles dont understand how they work.




I think that Possibly it has something to do with players reputation skills.. Quite possibly the Promoter Rateing Aswell. I have reputation 1001 (only done one event and soc mate repped me :p). When i am in my quad alone it is Fair. I asked someone who has 1106 to get in my quad and it went to Upstanding. When we were both in it together it was Respectable.

So that seems to point towards it being both ships rep value + avatar rep value of all the crew not just the pilot. Though Alaina says that PK acheivements doesn't seem to have an impact on the "tag" it may do so in a small amount.

Regards Tesh
So maybe there was no "bug" at all..they didnt know of how that worked with the rep system in place for passengers and pilot..Hmmmm...Tesh..Good going!! :yup:
 
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raynebowdragon

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A function deliberately integrated by the designers is not a bug or an exploit.

The blue triangle indicates the ship is not in flight mode, that is not a bug and going from pilot seat to non flight mode is an integrated function or there wouldnt be a change seat function in the action library therefore using it is not exploitation of a bug.

That is the purpose of arrows to indicate the vehicle is not currenlty in a flight mode but hovering with engine off red/green indicate the vehicle is in flight mode. I am sure this is to create fair warning that you could be attacked much the same as green dots do in PvP 4 .. therefore giving you the chance to take evasive action.

If you don't see these indcators or dont notice them changing that is also not a bug it is your own fault for not being more vigilant in a PvP area.

If the triangle did not change color to indicate its different statuses it would be a bug and someone using it would be exploiting, if the triangle stayed blue while the pilot was in flight you would not know if the craft was active or not.
If they jump from pilot seat to gunner seat to hover that is a scripted function and they are quite within their rights to do this.

I have seen this happen, a ship in flight but the triangle was blue, when I asked someone about it they said maybe a co pilot was steering.. To me thats a bug the craft is in flight regardless of who is flying it.. therefore the arrows should indicate that the ship is actively in flight.

Sorry a bit off topic but the so called bug was mentioned and I just had someone screaming exploit in game because I was changing my flight status for several reasons and then the so called bug got mentioned here.

CYU in Space
 
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Mischief

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lol so if your a Pirate and want to raise the neg tag you go out of your way to get as many -reps as you can :D

I went to fair after shooting on Horror young, he hit me backa bit hard and a I crapped myself and bolted for repairs
after not shooting a single thing but that Horror young my rep jumped to fair.

After blowing up my first Slep (excluding avatar kill) my rank changed to rude thats was after killing the one horror and nothing more

So Horror kill 1 = fair
slep destruction 1 = Rude
Nothing in between

Thats either going to confuse the issue more or help so there you go

As I posted earlier on in this thread killing horrors add too your current karma. If you're Fair you get "fairer", if you're rude you get "ruder". Simple as that.
If your first kill is a horror mob then it will make you "Fair" as MA defines mobs as being rude.
 

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red/green indicate the vehicle is in flight mode.

I never seen a vehicle in space with green triangle ... only red/blue (in flight)
 

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I never seen a vehicle in space with green triangle ... only red/blue (in flight)

I believe green triangle indicates that the person flying the Quad you are looking at are at the same rank in Karma as the one you are flying... Triangles that are two tone indicate what status that person is to you, friend/soc/team - non friend/non soc/non team, with the second color their Karma rank in relation to yours.

If you have seen only red blue then you have not encountered yet someone with same Karma ranking as you.
 

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So how does this work out with gunners?

I recall seeing some green triangles, but I only pk'ed once, as a gunner on a spaceship, and I killed some cosmic horrors.
Would I get karma, or only the ship, which I do not own?
And does it influence the karma of my own ship, in which I never pk'ed ?
 

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So how does this work out with gunners?

I recall seeing some green triangles, but I only pk'ed once, as a gunner on a spaceship, and I killed some cosmic horrors.
Would I get karma, or only the ship, which I do not own?
And does it influence the karma of my own ship, in which I never pk'ed ?

Only the ship gets the karma :) Your ship won't be effected by what you do with another persons ship.

You will see the triangles in relation to the colour of ship that you are in, not the one that you own ( which gets confusing when you jump between fair and rude ships ;) )
So as mentioned if you are in a fair ship - even as a gunner, other fair ships will be green to you - and if you are in a rude ship, other rude ships will be green to you.

However there is something that you have, that we are trying to figure out, that can influence the *strength* of the ships karma ( i.e promotor rating).

I will do a couple of tests tonight, see what it comes up with :)
 

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I never seen a vehicle in space with green triangle ... only red/blue (in flight)

Simple to Answer this one. you have obviously never PK'd anyone in space and do not have a karma tag. this means every other ship is different from you and is red if in flight mode and blue if in rest mode.

There is a case where a ship in flight can be blue this happens when the ship is out of radar range. Although the radar is fuzzed out in space any ship that would normally be visable and within its range will show its coloured triangle but once a ship goes out of this range. it turns blue even if you can still see it.

Regards Tesh.
 
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Alainax

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Having looked into promotor rating and reputation, it seems these are not directly linked to karma. Someone with a lower of both of these than me gave the ship higher reputation than me.

It also seems pvp achievement skills are not in direct link either.

Having said that, it may be a weighted average of alot of things... who knows!

( this is talking about the effect players have a on ship reputation ofc, and not the reputation it holds itself :) )
 

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Ok now im more confused than ever.....


I shot down a MS in a MS ( completely friendly ofc ;) )

Mandie changed from fair to rude with me seated in the pilots seat....


I then jumped in front guns, didnt kill any mobs, and she became disreputable.



I got in trouble ;) :laugh: and John jumped back in, killed one mob and Mandie became upstanding.

Go figure...
 

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Simple to Answer this one. you have obviously never PK'd anyone in space and do not have a karma tag. this means every other ship is different from you and is red if in flight mode and blue if in rest mode.

There is a case where a ship in flight can be blue this happens when the ship is out of radar range. Although the radar is fuzzed out in space any ship that would normally be visable and within its range will show its coloured triangle but once a ship goes out of this range. it turns blue even if you can still see it.

Regards Tesh.

Tesh, I've seen other ships, definiately moving in flight, surely within range, with a blue tag. However, like mine, they showed no karma tag.

Alaina, any ship I get into, the karma rating drops. I can drop an Upstanding to Notable, and Notable to nothing at all :silly2:
It's not skills, as I've flown some with similar skills - they get Notable before I enter the ship, I get nothing. I've asked a couple about their pvp history - cos other than a couple of soc events, I've not done any in EU - and that doesn't seem too different to me either.
 

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Second update of this evening...

Tags change depending on the server... we were fair, we crossed the server border and had no tag at all ( neutral) jumping in and out didnt solve it. Yet when John jumped in she bacame upstanding. He left and I jumped back, tagless.

So many factors seem to have an influence.
 

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Hmmmmm

Second update of this evening...

Tags change depending on the server... we were fair, we crossed the server border and had no tag at all ( neutral) jumping in and out didnt solve it. Yet when John jumped in she bacame upstanding. He left and I jumped back, tagless.

So many factors seem to have an influence.
This seems maybe to be the "Bug" they were talking about but rather having gone near the server border perhaps.It seems crazy on trying to narrow it down to me.I was shot down last night, I will have to find out what was karma and tag on appeared to be. :scratch2:
 

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This Karma thingie is really messed up that's for sure.

One thing seems to be clear though and that's the one about killing friends and foes.

Took my brand new ship out yesterday and killed 3 space mobs and of ocurse got the Fair tag. Today I killed a guy in a VTOL without a tag twice.
First time no karma message at all, second gave me a - karma and consequently I lost my Fair tag and is now un-tagged.

No looting commenced though - first time I tried just for the hell of it but am a crappy aimer, second time I didn't bother. Was out to test it and myself but since I'm no pirate I'll save the looting for the ones deserving it. :laugh:
 

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This Karma thingie is really messed up that's for sure.

One thing seems to be clear though and that's the one about killing friends and foes.

Took my brand new ship out yesterday and killed 3 space mobs and of ocurse got the Fair tag. Today I killed a guy in a VTOL without a tag twice.
First time no karma message at all, second gave me a - karma and consequently I lost my Fair tag and is now un-tagged.

No looting commenced though - first time I tried just for the hell of it but am a crappy aimer, second time I didn't bother. Was out to test it and myself but since I'm no pirate I'll save the looting for the ones deserving it. :laugh:
Lol so 3-2 = 0 makes perfect sense :scratch2: ofc vtol may give 1.5 karma points :eyecrazy:


Tonight Mandie went from taggless to notable to fair and now upstanding, all with me in the seat :scratch2:

I
 
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