Karma comes back around.....

Thorns Rose

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Lol so 3-2 = 0 makes perfect sense :scratch2: ofc vtol may give 1.5 karma points :eyecrazy:


Tonight Mandie went from taggless to notable to fair and now upstanding, all with me in the seat :scratch2:

I

When you were in that seat and it was changing.. were you shooting mobs? :D
 

Alainax

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When you were in that seat and it was changing.. were you shooting mobs? :D

Only a couple, no where near enough for a tag change.. or so it seems.

Left the mobs behind, still upstanding, crosed a border and we are now fair :scratch2:

edit - new border.. and now tagless again.
 
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slasha

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hmmm i knew there was a catch when i bought that cheap vtol :yay:
 

Lykke

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People actually talked about in game karma since I started EU - soon to be 7 years ago.

Some actually believe that the whole avatar system in game has a hidden 'karma'-feature - which is also calculating your in game social and interactive behavior etc.

It might be a stretch ;) But if this is not a game, Karma should be just as real in our Universe as it is outside in the 'real world'?
 

ruslan

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Could it have something to do with the amount of ped looted or damage done?

Cause the very first time i went to space my ship was Notable, then I shot someone down with a loot of 5.8k ped and immediately went to disreputable.


I gave almost everything back tho, kept like 3% and the bad Karma :S
Its just way to much for anyone to loose in a game.


Some
 

CAPPY

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Could it have something to do with the amount of ped looted or damage done?

Cause the very first time i went to space my ship was Notable, then I shot someone down with a loot of 5.8k ped and immediately went to disreputable.


I gave almost everything back tho, kept like 3% and the bad Karma :S
Its just way to much for anyone to loose in a game.


Some


+rep for a good man, who ever it was owes you a big one :yup:
 

Alainax

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Random post but just wanted to put the last piece of the puzzle in.

We know how the ship gets its karma, how its determined to be good or evil, and how this can be increased /decresed - and how karma can come back around. The part that i was stumped over was how some individuals could change a quads title mearly by sitting in it.

Took a while but eventually the penny dropped :laugh:

Its captain profession.

The simple theory was I have a rude quad - its tagged as rude through its own karma, its parked as rude, and if people get in it with low skills in captain - the ship remains rude.

It used be that John woudl get into my quad and it would change to disreputable, as it would do with very few, but some other avas. The second they get out it goes back to rude.

Now however with my ever increasing captain profession ive noticed it change as my proffesional standing goes up. To start it remained rude when i got in, For a while when I got in it became disreputable, and now as my captain is higher again, it has changed to notorious.

Bear in mind captain profession is determined by a set of other skills, so someone who has never been in space, may have already have a half decent captain profession hence being able to strengthen a quads natural title.



Phew! :ahh:


But there is something Id like to know about karma maybe someone can help - does a ship loose its karma when traded?
 
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Trying to get my head around this. Trying being the key word :D

1) Do avatars have a karma rating? if so can you look at it somewhere in skills or profession standing?

Assuming avatars have a karma rating:
2) If avatar with bad karma kills a space horror in a ship with good karma rating (when it is unoccupied) how does their and ships karma rating change?

3) If avatar with good karma kills a space horror in a ship with bad karma rating (when it is unoccupied) how does their and ships karma rating change?

4) If avatar with bad karma kills a pirate with bad karma rating in a ship with good karma rating (when it is unoccupied) how does their and ships karma rating change?
 

Alainax

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Trying to get my head around this. Trying being the key word :D

1) Do avatars have a karma rating? if so can you look at it somewhere in skills or profession standing?

Assuming avatars have a karma rating:
2) If avatar with bad karma kills a space horror in a ship with good karma rating (when it is unoccupied) how does their and ships karma rating change?

3) If avatar with good karma kills a space horror in a ship with bad karma rating (when it is unoccupied) how does their and ships karma rating change?

4) If avatar with bad karma kills a pirate with bad karma rating in a ship with good karma rating (when it is unoccupied) how does their and ships karma rating change?

Oh dont! Your making my head spin! :laugh:

No avatars dont have In game Karma so to speak ( maybe rl :scratch2:)

But their captain profession strengthens the karma of a ship.

So a good captain will make a rude quad notorious, and a fair quad more fair ( ie upstanding). But this is only when they are in it. The second the exit the vehicle, the quad goes back to its natural self karma ( that its gained through mobs, pirating etc) and you can see the ships own karma when its parked with no one in it. If is changes once you enter, its because your captain profession has strengthend it.


:scratch2::girl:
 
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Oh dont! Your making my head spin! :laugh:

No avatars dont have In game Karma so to speak ( maybe rl :scratch2:)

But their captain profession strengthens the karma of a ship.

So a good captain will make a rude quad notorious, and a fair quad more fair ( ie upstanding). But this is only when they are in it. The second the exit the vehicle, the quad goes back to its natural self karma ( that its gained through mobs, pirating etc) and you can see the ships own karma when its parked with no one in it. If is changes once you enter, its because your captain profession has strengthend it.


:scratch2::girl:

Ok , that makes more sense now :) Thanks


Another question: when I get in ship how do I tell what my own ships rating is? I can only seem to tell when I leave ship (then a notification pops up)
 

Alainax

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Ok , that makes more sense now :) Thanks


Another question: when I get in ship how do I tell what my own ships rating is? I can only seem to tell when I leave ship (then a notification pops up)

You can see what its own karma is when its parked - with no-one in it. Just hover over it and it will tell you its natural tag.


However dont get me started on MS, so far this theory only works on quads and vtols. Mandie changes her tag as she pleases.... :scratch2: We have to hit a few mobs to regain her tag... pass.. gimme another 6 months and ill figure that karma out too :laugh:
 

KiriMistPrinces

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Does anyone have any more updates on this topic?
 

RickEngland

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I'm sure I've read it somewhere, but can't find it now so I ask you experts.

How will killing space mobs affect your Karma? If you are "Fair" and kill them, will your "Good guy" karma be strengthen?
And if you are "Rude", will you get "ruder" by killing space mobs or does that count as an act of "goodness" and switch you back to "fairness"?

I've killed 100's of cosmics, and got loads of karma points, then a few weeks a go out of the blue my quad changed from "fair" to "kind". So I guess you need to collect a lot of mob killing karma to change rank.

I'm really happy with my "kind" marker, sadly my current workhorse quad is coming to the end of its life soon. I won a dog fight over the weekend when someone attacked me in space, all I know was the ship had a red triangle, and after I killed him I still stayed "kind" (although I choose not to loot the guy, but its the kill that matters not the choice to loot).

Hope helps

Rick.
 

Alainax

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Does anyone have any more updates on this topic?
Which part were you looking for more info on? :)
I've killed 100's of cosmics, and got loads of karma points, then a few weeks a go out of the blue my quad changed from "fair" to "kind". So I guess you need to collect a lot of mob killing karma to change rank.

I'm really happy with my "kind" marker, sadly my current workhorse quad is coming to the end of its life soon. I won a dog fight over the weekend when someone attacked me in space, all I know was the ship had a red triangle, and after I killed him I still stayed "kind" (although I choose not to loot the guy, but its the kill that matters not the choice to loot).

Hope helps

Rick.

Gz on your kind tag :)

You killing a red will have strengthened your positive karma points more, unless he was a red neautral :)
 

BenCoyote

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Reputation: the asnwer to Karna and how it would affect a players standing in the community.

See here's my thought on the whole system right now. and it's this..

It doesn't work.

Why? Cause the one thing is that this isn't based on is the ship's Karna, and not the Player's "Reputation"

I mean I look at a person as being reputatble if they give you an honest deal, if they allow you to go freely on your way, and even will help out with stopping an attack..

The problem is that MA has made 'Reputation' as nothing more than a way to promote events..

Frankly there can be a simple solution to this and in fact this can actually be implemented quite easily..

First, make "Event Promoting" a skill, that is nothing but positive... but it doesn't affect Reputation as much as doing the actual acts of piracy and or trading.

But Reputation should have a s Net value of 0 and that Repuation should be able to go either Positive or negative, here. That way if you have a person with a Negative value reputation, they can be seen as negative..

The ship's Karma could be factored in as it is dependent on the person's captaining skills... (Spacecraft Pilot)

I think with these simple alterations the real reputations of a player can be seen (Via a scanner) as well as that of a ship..

but right now I feel the system they have now really isn't viable, on the account I've sene many decent players who have been told they are pirates and vice versa... Frankly reputation should be 0 with a positive or negative outcome, and it's this that determines who you deal with an who you don't..

But hey, let's hear some ideas on Reputation and piloting.. After all might give the folks at MA an idea on what should be done with this system..

Benjamin Ben Coyote
 

Alainax

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See here's my thought on the whole system right now. and it's this..

It doesn't work.

Why? Cause the one thing is that this isn't based on is the ship's Karna, and not the Player's "Reputation"

I mean I look at a person as being reputatble if they give you an honest deal, if they allow you to go freely on your way, and even will help out with stopping an attack..

The problem is that MA has made 'Reputation' as nothing more than a way to promote events..

Frankly there can be a simple solution to this and in fact this can actually be implemented quite easily..

First, make "Event Promoting" a skill, that is nothing but positive... but it doesn't affect Reputation as much as doing the actual acts of piracy and or trading.

But Reputation should have a s Net value of 0 and that Repuation should be able to go either Positive or negative, here. That way if you have a person with a Negative value reputation, they can be seen as negative..
Hey Ben, I dont know if im picking you up wrong, but just to clarify we debunked the " event promoter/reputation" having any effect on the tag quite early on in the thread. It has no effect.

But maybe i misunderstood what you meant.

The ship's Karma could be factored in as it is dependent on the person's captaining skills... (Spacecraft Pilot)

It is already :) A persons captain profession ( based on alot more than space craft pilot skills) heavily influences the strength of a ships tag.

but right now I feel the system they have now really isn't viable, on the account I've sene many decent players who have been told they are pirates and vice versa...

I think its more of a misunderstanding on the people who are guessing who are pirates and who are not. Some will see a red and think its a pirate, however it could be a fair ship ( if your in a rude ship) or it could be a pirate with a fair ship. The exact same thing with greens being good. Green just means the same side tag as you, doesnt mean they are not a pirate.

:)

I think its good that both the player and the ship have an effect on the tag. I like thats its captain skills also, as this can possibly show you a bit about how much experience this person might have in space.
 

Solo4711

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See here's my thought on the whole system right now. and it's this..

It doesn't work.

Why? Cause the one thing is that this isn't based on is the ship's Karna, and not the Player's "Reputation"

I mean I look at a person as being reputatble if they give you an honest deal, if they allow you to go freely on your way, and even will help out with stopping an attack..

The problem is that MA has made 'Reputation' as nothing more than a way to promote events..

Frankly there can be a simple solution to this and in fact this can actually be implemented quite easily..

First, make "Event Promoting" a skill, that is nothing but positive... but it doesn't affect Reputation as much as doing the actual acts of piracy and or trading.

But Reputation should have a s Net value of 0 and that Repuation should be able to go either Positive or negative, here. That way if you have a person with a Negative value reputation, they can be seen as negative..

The ship's Karma could be factored in as it is dependent on the person's captaining skills... (Spacecraft Pilot)

I think with these simple alterations the real reputations of a player can be seen (Via a scanner) as well as that of a ship..

but right now I feel the system they have now really isn't viable, on the account I've sene many decent players who have been told they are pirates and vice versa... Frankly reputation should be 0 with a positive or negative outcome, and it's this that determines who you deal with an who you don't..

But hey, let's hear some ideas on Reputation and piloting.. After all might give the folks at MA an idea on what should be done with this system..

Benjamin Ben Coyote

understand.

in comparision to the real world it be something new. in the real world its more up to you to inform yourself about peoples actions and reputation by communicating with others or research and so on and self decide who you trust and who not by own estimations.

since no one in the real world has to carry some kind of lamp on his/her head which shows a special color if the person got involved with unlawful things in the past there is no 100% security in the real world you got to be stronger, up to date of informations, research or not.

though if someone got bad reputation for things he did in the past would make it with such "rep-indicator" hard for someone to get out of there again even if he has not done anything unlawful for long time. maybe even someone would be found as guilty but got accidently involved in something. such persons would be openly marked no matter where they go.


for EU could bring new gameplay in with access to different types of faction related content. or even have an influence on how your avatar appearence changes as well.

like jedi and sith on star wars. movement of a rep positive or negative.
if it would be related to ingame content like factions it be a good idea for me.

in terms of open RCE competition for me EU should stay as much close to the real world as possible. There will always be persons who try to trick or fool others. Community will always deal with persons based on the public opinion about things. leaves more freedom.

In what way do you want to give players possibility to rep someone? Still it would leave alot room for manipulation. Pirates could rep each others up or competitors down on purpose. even point of views of what is ok and what not can be very different.

a pirate will say "for that I need good rep as it was a masterpiece of piracy"
the victim will say "for that you need bad rep as it was absolutely unfair and trickery"

who judges that if ingame mechanics show publicly rep around?

Find that interesting. Keep the ideas up.

Greets,
 

RickEngland

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For the folks that are tracking karma changes, my quad went from "kind" to "good" yesterday while hunting cosmics.

Have fun out there

Rick.
 

BenCoyote

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Give them good (or bad) rep, plus an idea for society rep and how it would work for or against a society.

understand.

in comparision to the real world it be something new. in the real world its more up to you to inform yourself about peoples actions and reputation by communicating with others or research and so on and self decide who you trust and who not by own estimations.

since no one in the real world has to carry some kind of lamp on his/her head which shows a special color if the person got involved with unlawful things in the past there is no 100% security in the real world you got to be stronger, up to date of informations, research or not.

though if someone got bad reputation for things he did in the past would make it with such "rep-indicator" hard for someone to get out of there again even if he has not done anything unlawful for long time. maybe even someone would be found as guilty but got accidently involved in something. such persons would be openly marked no matter where they go.


for EU could bring new gameplay in with access to different types of faction related content. or even have an influence on how your avatar appearence changes as well.

like jedi and sith on star wars. movement of a rep positive or negative.
if it would be related to ingame content like factions it be a good idea for me.

in terms of open RCE competition for me EU should stay as much close to the real world as possible. There will always be persons who try to trick or fool others. Community will always deal with persons based on the public opinion about things. leaves more freedom.

In what way do you want to give players possibility to rep someone? Still it would leave alot room for manipulation. Pirates could rep each others up or competitors down on purpose. even point of views of what is ok and what not can be very different.

a pirate will say "for that I need good rep as it was a masterpiece of piracy"
the victim will say "for that you need bad rep as it was absolutely unfair and trickery"

who judges that if ingame mechanics show publicly rep around?

Find that interesting. Keep the ideas up.

Greets,

Exactly Solo, and in fact this is the idea they should implement and the "Captain/Space piloting skills are sort of a factor as well. (The higher your pilotin skills the better (or worse you rating becomes . The idea is in fact sort of like the way we give positive or negative rep here in the forum. If you think the pilot did a good job, you give him positive reputation, if not, then give them negative reputation. factor i the piloting skill and this determins the real reputation of the player

I guess a good formula would be (Positive pilot reputation points) - (Negative Reputation points) / Captain profession level = Real reputation

Also this could be used in a "Society" format as well, as the players within the the society total positive and or negative reps would determine if the society was a pirate group or not (Negative rep societies would try to clean up their act in order to get back in favor with the community as a whole.) The idea is similar to what you mentioned as we could have some sort of Good/Evil rating. I mean sure you have good people who are "Average pilots, and then you have bad people who are superior pilots, as well as good people who have superior pilot skills.

The Bottom line is that while the current system is good, the ranking of a ship can be altered just by switching out the players ship with a new quad (or VTOL) so it appears that the pilot is 'good' when in reality he (or she as there are female pirates I know of) and thus "Mask" their rating, so that they appear good, that is until they blow you out of the sky.

But with a similar idea like you suggested the system would be a tad more sound I think that about sums my ideas up in a nutshell, but if anyone can think of a better idea, then let's hear it. But yes solo, you got th right idea.. and in fact it would be interesting to see if such a system could be implented that would finally clear the air on who is good and evil.
 

RickEngland

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Kind>Good>upstanding>respectable

Quad(L) 01: Kind>Good>Upstanding (quad retired)
Quad(L) 02: Fair (Me upstanding), quad Kind (me respectable)

So I'm taking my earned karma with me, but my new quads start at the beginning.

Looking forward to next karma unlock, I'll kind you updated.

Rick
 

Alainax

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Having been monitoring this for a while now, we have noticed the Captain proffesions ability to strengthen the quads tag either slows down dramatically at higher levels or has a cap.

For example from lvl 28ish to 48ish hasnt impacted on the tag. Where as the lower levels had a huge impact.

Will keep my eye on it and see if it changes more :)
 
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For quite some time skilling up 30-49 it seemed like captain profession didnt impact karma any further but
since i hit 50 captain prof there has been a severe jump in the karma tag / title again:
Being reputable in my quad and prominent in my sleipnir since around 30 captain it now has changed to distinguished in quad and renowned in sleipnir.
 
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The following titles for the 'good' side were found so far:

notable / fair / kind / good / upstanding / respectable / reputable / prominent / honest / thrustworty / estimable / distinguished / renowned / admirable / noble / great / illustrious / glorious

hopefully i got them in the right order, there is still some gaps above estimable and furthermore above great as i assume.

My assumption is that each 5 levels in captain profession give one rank in title.
 
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Granny Rowan

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anyone worked out the rankings for bad karma ?

The following titles for the 'good' side were found so far:

notable / fair / kind / good / upstanding / respectable / reputable / prominent / honest / thrustworty / estimable / distinguished / renowned / admirable / noble / great / illustrious / glorious

hopefully i got them in the right order, there is still some gaps above estimable and furthermore above great as i assume.

My assumption is that each 5 levels in captain profession give one rank in title.

Thanks JBK for the list above always good to see what we hope to achieve (however busted a system karma is)

I was however wondering if anyone has put together a similar list for bad karma.

We all know rude ships can actually be innocent travellers that have themselves just responded to attack, but I am sure the greater ranks of bad karma would give folk a better idea of who is a pirate. Despicable springs to mind as one of the more obvious.
 
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Thanks JBK for the list above always good to see what we hope to achieve (however busted a system karma is)

I was however wondering if anyone has put together a similar list for bad karma.

We all know rude ships can actually be innocent travellers that have themselves just responded to attack, but I am sure the greater ranks of bad karma would give folk a better idea of who is a pirate. Despicable springs to mind as one of the more obvious.

Captain profession does modify the ship in bad karma direction too, when i enter a bad karma ship it instantly becomes very bad. Thought i havent collected info on the ranking for that side so far, might look into this.
 

mitsuwa

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my 2 cents, my quad used to be 'fair' because when i got it, i tried hunting mobs for a while.
Now days, its 'rude' presumably because i spent so much time shooting at pirates.

thats about all i got for you though.
 
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Some info about the bad karma ranks that i have collected so far - some gaps inbetween the ranks still need to be filled:
Rude, Disreputable, Notorious, Despicable, Scoundrel, Dastardly, Malicious, Evil, Villainous
 

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Does the Karma rank stay with the ship even though it changes owner?
Let's say I buy a used Quad on auction and the last owner happens to be a pirate who shot down a bunch of ships and lowered the Karma.

I then jump in my "new" Quad and head up into space only to find that my ships has the rank Disreputable or something like that. :scratch2:

I would be seen as a pirate (which would suck) even though I personally have never shot anything in space and do not plan to either, unless it is to defend myself from a pirate attack.
 

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my 2 cents, my quad used to be 'fair' because when i got it, i tried hunting mobs for a while.
Now days, its 'rude' presumably because i spent so much time shooting at pirates.
Can't get 'rude' from shooting pirates. This 'rude' on your ship comes from shooting ships with good karma - soc KOS list, personal KOS list, etc etc.

Just sayin'... ;)
 
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