Keep ares perfected or switch to Easter 2022

Aloisius

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What people fail to mention is that loot cycles play a part in people's loot returns.
Understanding loot cycles is the most important aspect here to profitable hunting.
yup and the 100 year wave !
 

M Rufen Power

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Right so let me get this straight. You believe what MA say, right?
Let's look at the references provided a bit closer, shall we?
3) Effects of Critical Hits/Damage on Loot
Increased Critical Hit Chance or Critical Damage can never have a negative effect on loot returns.
So here MA is saying that DPP does have a positive effect on loot returns because it can never have a negative effect.
2) Charlie|MindArk said:
Efficiency has a direct effect on the overall TT return, it does not directly affect loot composition.
Here MA is also saying that Efficiency has a positive effect on loot returns, but does not directly affect loot composition.
1) Charlie|MindArk said:
DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP.
Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.
DPP not only has a positive effect on loot returns (whether direct or indirect) but affects loot composition.
Hmm, double entendre? Can anyone see that these official statements honestly contradict each other?
MA has stated both positively affect loot returns not negatively, whether it's directly or indirectly.
DPP affects loot composition which we need for markup and efficiency giving more shrapnel.
Afterward, they implemented looter profession without a dev note. Nobody have an absolute answer about that.
Then they introduce Looter profs with no explanation or official statement as to how it integrates with Efficiency.

Enough said.
 

M Rufen Power

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So we are supposed to just completely disagree with the data we've been shown and the information given by Mindark?
Your thoughts and belief system have the power to create your reality, my advice, use them.

I have a long track record of 99-101% TT returns in hunting and my mining returns is 105%.
 

Gopher

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So here MA is saying that DPP does have a positive effect on loot returns because it can never have a negative effect.
They never said that DPP has a positive effect on tt returns, you assumed that when they said it can never have a negative effect. There is such thing as a "neutral" effect.
 

M Rufen Power

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They never said that DPP has a positive effect on tt returns, you assumed that when they said it can never have a negative effect. There is such thing as a "neutral" effect.
There is no such thing as neutral in coding. It's either 0's or 1's. Ying or Yang. Positive or Negative.
Life is of course more complex, so the neutral effect can and will apply under certain conditions.
But life itself can be boiled down to these finer concepts Masculine / Feminine, or Light or Dark.
 

Slyk

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There is no such thing as neutral in coding. It's either 0's or 1's. Ying or Yang. Positive or Negative.
Life is of course more complex, so the neutral effect can and will apply under certain conditions.
But life itself can be boiled down to these finer concepts Masculine / Feminine, or Light or Dark.

Charlie|MindArk said:
No, DPP and Efficiency are not the same thing. DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP. Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.
 
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DrGirlfriend

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There is no such thing as neutral in coding. It's either 0's or 1's. Ying or Yang. Positive or Negative.
Life is of course more complex, so the neutral effect can and will apply under certain conditions.
But life itself can be boiled down to these finer concepts Masculine / Feminine, or Light or Dark.
Actually there is negative -1 and positive +1 so in fact 0 is neutral.
 

Evey

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There is no such thing as neutral in coding.
Ofc there can be two functions having 2 variables that don't afect the other function. The functions also don't affect eachother.
Let's try a basic exercise with colours for better visualising: DPP is a variable that does not affect the ttReturn function, just as efficiency variable does not affect the lootComposition function. Colours have been used to pair the right variable with the corresponding function. Hope this helps :)
 
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Katla

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I think this debate could use some nuances.

OPs question is: Easter 22 (5 % crit/Focus Blow) vs Ares (10% reload bonus). So the budget we're playing around with is 4k ped top, not 45k for dual uber rings.

Ares will give slightly better DPS. Ares also means slightly higher average cost to kill. If you want faster skill gains (especially when using pills), go for Ares.

Easter 22 will give better DPP on average, because the DPS difference isn't that big vs Ares. Even when hunting spiders the DPS difference is so small that I'd go for Easter 22 if I wanted to bring down cost to kill. Better DPP means more kills for the same cost (more lottery tickets), and slight change of loot composition (we must assume this is what we want to achieve).

Adding pills will benefit the Easter 22 ring more (+ crit dmg bonus from Deva especially), adding EST armor will also improve this setup (if you can avoid armor decay).

Downside to Easter 22: cost to kill will vary more, thus your multis will vary more, which means more loot events to even things out.
 

Nanashana

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Im just waiting for someone to talk about how increasing crit chance and damage also increases tt return volatility, just adding more complexity to this whole mess! ;)
 

M Rufen Power

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5 years into loot 2.0 and you still didn't get it that none of the buffs listed by you increase your TT return. If your angle was to have lower def cost, max relaod should be at the top in order to be able to kill the mob faster...
For me, it's not about getting faster kills but consistent damage or speed, as I've had better results at times shooting slower.
Why is shooting slower more beneficial? Because you outlast the dry spells going slower while it recoups funds from others.

What it does not do, however, is impact your TT return at all.
If that is what you want to believe, then be my guest; I disagree simply because I know high DPP can lead to TT profits; MA has made it less attainable for those who don't understand loot cycles. We have hunting logs with Loot 2.0 weapons showing sub-97 % TT returns, with looter skills, mind you! You need, on average, to get 97% TT to break even these days using available markups lol.

What is being disputed is the claim that DPP has a positive impact on your TT return, and what is being discussed is the following statement:
The reason it is being disputed is that it is directly opposing official statements, no data has been provided to substantiate the claim and it has been contradicted by other data. The fact that these claims also comes from accounts that have previously provided questionable, and unsubstantiated statements.
I have students with minimal skills, high 60% efficiency, and pulling very decent TT returns following my unsubstantiated statements and profiting consistently with markup gained from their DPP rating. But by all means, continue refusing to better your markup chances with other buff types.

Interesting thread....o_O
No sh*t. I hope your head is still attached :D.
 
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mihaimnb

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Nothing too mindboogling about it Rufen so yeah my brain doesn't feel like it made any effort, as for OP probably depends on the mob you hunt, you want reload if the mob gets to you and you lose in decay, the ideal case would be more dpp surely but the thing is there is not a huge dpp difference between ares and the 2022 ring.It is actually hard to know if it makes a difference in loot composition and Mu for real or just a tiny insignificant percent also the 2022 may limit the range of mobs you can hunt.They actually need to be tested I don't think any of you know for sure which is truly better.Also depends on weapon if you have a good dpp wep already you want to cycle more if not you may want to get better composition but again how good that extra 0.1-0.2 in dpp really is is a bit of a mistery in term of MU.
 

B-K

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I've been hunting 1 mob this month so far.
If i can get my hand on a easter 2022 for testing i could hunjt them for another month with just a ring change and no other changes.
I could give my ares as collateral if anyone was interested inseeing this happen.

Mind you , i use a lr-20 adjusted with a203 amp so the cycle would be somewere between 10k-20k ammo and decay.
No armor and an adjusted resto chip.
 

Msturlese

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Just a side math note...
Loot 2.0 adjusted the "seed" for pseudo random number to the "PED PUT INTO THE KILL"
rising dpp (i love the example of Ambulimax because it is 1010 hp
at 2.90 DPP a kill costs me 348 pec; with 1000 ped i can kill 287 monster ( 287 ticket with a seed of 3.48 ped each
at 4.00 DPP one kill is 2.52 PED so i can kill with 1000 ped 396 monster (396 ticket with a seed of 2.52 PED
if i get a 100x with the first one i will get 348 ped global, with the second one i will get 252 ped so i need 348/252
or 1.38x globals to collect same amount... guess what? it is the same expected reward.

The argument "with better DPP i expect better returns due to more kills" is faulty logic.

if i believe to MA statements, higher DPP lead to LESS SHRAPNELS, more ITEMS (that can or can not have a MU in them) and that is the only benefit of DPP

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN LINEAR PROGRESSION of eff and looter so the following statements are based on my thoughts on asyntoptic formulas that might or might not be correct
better looter and better eff, despite NOT YET FULLY worked out, lead to better TT return. this is a fact.

Now the real point: is TT Return REALLY the important measure of a hunt return? i dont think so. i prefer to consider the WHOLE return (TT+markup)
 

haxx

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If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
1. Crit Chance
2. Crit Damage
3. Life Steal or
4. Heal Over Time
5. Run Speed
6. Auto Loot
7. Max Reload
My explanation is, that the majority of hunters are in that mob HP range, be ahead of them.
its astounding the amount of misinformation you push into these forums man

if you want max tt returns you need max efficiency and max looter levels point blank

all you listed wont change a single pec in the tt returns

also, your explanation is shit
 

M Rufen Power

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It's astounding the amount of misinformation you push into these forums man.

If you want max tt returns you need max efficiency and max looter levels point blank.

All you listed wont change a single pec in the tt returns.

Also, your explanation is shit.
I don't mind the Neg Reps! Please keep it coming! Maybe you'll think first!

If you noticed anything from what I posted, the order relates to the following:
Maximum damage for the least amount of ped input.
To follow up with reducing the defence/healing costs.
How is that explanation shit?

The max reloads last because you don't want to increase your cost per hour without sufficient reserves.
There is an excellent correlation between DPS increasing your losses exponentially. More DPS = MORE BANKROLL.
This is why I don't ever recommend obtaining max reload buffs before people are ready for the causality.
Maybe take a little more time to consider what you post next time. Cheers.
 

messi91

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How is that explanation shit?
Explanation is fine its just that it doesn't do what you think it does.That is misleading which can be because you don't know or on purpose, that's what we don't know yet.
Dev notes are very clear yet I don't understand why after 5 years people still debate them.
 

haxx

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If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:

how many times will you have to read this before realizing how wrong it is? no buff ever will change a single pec in your tt returns. there are only 2 things related to tt returns: looter level and eff. thats it, nothing else. it'll change some stuff, but wont have any effect on your tt returns. like messi said, dev notes are pretty clear about this you should give them another read

ma has absolutely nothing to gain from misleading players, take off your tinfoil hat man
 

PreyNaika

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Buy my game Ready setup and be happy.

Or just take a Look on it then you know what to do :) without to explain a lot

You can rent it too , to see how stuff works out for you

the main problem i see is you keep killing mobs with 1K+ hp while using a lr 20 , thats like 30 somewhat dps ?
i recommend you to use a better weapon before thinking about rings

but to answer your question go for the ares. dps wise it makes more sence ,
if you go for dpp then choose the 5% crit , but @ this point it rly makes no diference @ all

increased crit hit allways needs a increased crit damage to make it worth it otherwise the result is to small to make a real diference

15%atk speed
5points crit hit
50 crit damage is the max what you´r able to get out of rings atm

lr-20 with 5% crit increase gives you 3.15 dpp and 20.8 dps
lr-20 with 14%atk speed 1.2 crit gives you 3.00 dpp and 22.6 dps
lr-20 15%atk speed 5points crit and 50 % crit damage gives 3.22 dpp and 24.5 dps

so actualy , just upgrade your weapon and ur good for a while
 
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If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:
If you want max TT returns at that mob hp range, the order of buffs in my book would be:

how many times will you have to read this before realizing how wrong it is? no buff ever will change a single pec in your tt returns. there are only 2 things related to tt returns: looter level and eff. thats it, nothing else. it'll change some stuff, but wont have any effect on your tt returns. like messi said, dev notes are pretty clear about this you should give them another read

ma has absolutely nothing to gain from misleading players, take off your tinfoil hat man

Doesn't eff affect the quality/composition of the loot? and not TT?
I'm just asking.
 
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