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Konve's insane mining

falkao said:
HinDragoz has cycled 50.3k and got a 84% payout. From the table we do get for 50k that payout should be between87.2% and 100.2% in 99% of cases. Hence he belongs to the 1% ones that are outside this interval.

If HinDragoz is used to double bomb, then the table is not the correct one. As a rule of dumb, you will lose about 2-3% in doing so.
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Yep, I always double bomb. Mining in taxed LA makes big difference too, but I never mine in them :)
 
HinDragoz said:
Yep, I always double bomb. Mining in taxed LA makes big difference too, but I never mine in them :)
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With 55m range finder 99% CI limits with double bombing (mean distance) should be 83.9% to 99.4% but I'm quite sure you're using a lower range finder.
 
Thanks for the explanation falko :)

Seems that the best way to survive in EU is to cycle as much ped as possible :laugh:

Based on your table the more ped an avatar cycles over time the shorter it's interval where overall return can fluctuate.

I wonder if MA uses some kind of marks in the amount of ped cycled by an avatar. Whenever an avatar reaches such a mark, a check is made to see if the avatar's overall return is within the ranges and if it is below, it gets a bigger chance to get a compensation loot until next mark. :scratch2:
 
falkao said:
With 55m range finder 99% CI limits with double bombing (mean distance) should be 83.9% to 99.4% but I'm quite sure you're using a lower range finder.
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I use f105 and vrx2k and they both have 55m range
 
sitram said:
...

I wonder if MA uses some kind of marks in the amount of ped cycled by an avatar. Whenever an avatar reaches such a mark, a check is made to see if the avatar's overall return is within the ranges and if it is below, it gets a bigger chance to get a compensation loot until next mark. :scratch2:
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this was my hope but we all do know MA very well!
 
HinDragoz said:
I use f105 and vrx2k and they both have 55m range
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well, then I was wrong. You're still on the lower extreme. How are you double bombing? Rebombing the claim or drop point?
 
falkao said:
well, then I was wrong. You're still on the lower extreme. How are you double bombing? Rebombing the claim or drop point?
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I drill up the claim and rebomb there
 
HinDragoz said:
I drill up the claim and rebomb there
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k, then I've already used the correct case. You will rebomb in mean about 30% of the old area and limits are as given. Hence with 84% your on the lower end of the 83.9% to 99.4% interval.
 
falkao said:
If HinDragoz is used to double bomb, then the table is not the correct one. As a rule of dumb, you will lose about 2-3% in doing so.
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Nice prediction!

Presumably further reductions could occur if sometimes the full 110m is not run between nrfs.

Love the perhaps deliberate typo in the second sentence :D
 
For an update, I am in the next step now. I can't afford insane 1k runs so I started "normal" mining. Though that takes so much longer, and I have been busy IRL, so updates will be a lot more scarce.

And just to clarify what I think about mining right now;
Previously I have been 110 % sure that all loot is avatar based. I have my doubts now, however. The test so far indicates that mining claims are of a "random" value, based on how much you spent to find That claim. In other words, I bomb with 1 PED - I find claims of a size in proportion to that. If I bomb twice, get one NRF and then a hit - I will not get a claim in proportion to the 2 PED spent. Rather I get a claim from the 1 PED table. If I used an amp which decays 1 PED, then I'd get a claim from the 2 PED table, bombing twice with one NRF - I still get from the same list. (Note how, even in the 1 PED table claim size is most often above 1 PED TT, because whoever wrote the code knows no one is like to have 100 % hit rate.)

The above is in accordance with what the hunting tests showed, as far as I can tell. Hit the mob for more dmg - get more loot. Eco matters, because you want the dmg done to be as cheap to you as possible.

Important text: Also, the above indicates that the best enhancer to use while mining is not a depth enhancer, unless you are targeting a specific ore in an area for markup, but rather the range enhancers. Find more claims = more TT for you, so long as the enhancers don't break quicker then you find more claims. If you already have a 100 % hit rate, the enhancer will not do anything but add to your costs. UL amp with range enhancers is ideal for increased TT return. And never, ever double bomb unless skill gains tell you to. And even then, it would be wise to consider just where to drop the next bomb. If you stood at X=0, found a claim at X=1 and you have a finder with range 50 - then move to X=52 before dropping your next bomb. You still search all the same area, but without loosing valuable search radius by searching stuff you already looked through once (you always find the closest claim while mining). If the area is one-dimensional. You get the point.

Disclaimer: In theory.

Edit: And as JohnCapital's tests suggested - this further increases the importance to know if someone else has mined the area before you. If they have, get out. Or at least give the area some 15-20 minutes to respawn it's claims.
 
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Konve said:
Also, the above indicates that the best enhancer to use while mining is not a depth enhancer, unless you are targeting a specific ore in an area for markup, but rather the range enhancers.
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From just a tt perspective maybe. Range enhancers have sick markup though.
 
It looks to me like your results confirm what I was assuming.

Analyzing all avatar activity would require a lot of calculations and this for something that would/should be a very tiny influence of a modifier.
Also balancing loots so players have always a certain return rate sounds silly for me.

That would punish the smart players by artificially reducing their loots and encourage the dumb players by rewarding them for their mistakes.

So what I believe is that we as players have control over our returns by playing either smart or dumb, but wait also by being lucky or unlucky.

So when someone hits something big I don't believe it was because of all the actions before that.
I believe its just that if you do something a lot you can be the person that is at the right place at the right time with the right gear.
Sometimes though a total newcomer is the lucky person.

In the end its all chance and statistics... being a dot on the grid provides a different perspective for each dot :yup:
 
Konve said:
Important text: Also, the above indicates that the best enhancer to use while mining is not a depth enhancer, unless you are targeting a specific ore in an area for markup, but rather the range enhancers. ...
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Jimmy B said:
From just a tt perspective maybe. Range enhancers have sick markup though.
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Indeed, range enhancers do have a badly designed decay/efficiency and therefore bad MU as given here.
 
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Jimmy B said:
Love the perhaps deliberate typo in the second sentence :D
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Dumb and thumb did sound very similar to me, although I'm still not sure if dumb might still apply;
 
I did the auto use tool running with and without amps, took a couple months but my returns leveled out no problem.
 
I recall a test done years ago where someone mined CND specifically along the walls and corners to see results of cutting their searchable area to essentially 1/2 then 1/4 of possible. IIRC, the result was still a typical CND.

Took a quick search but couldn't find it. Anyone else able to link to that post?
 
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JohnCapital said:
I recall a test done years ago where someone mined CND specifically along the walls and corners to see results of cutting their searchable area to essentially 1/2 then 1/4 of possible. IIRC, the result was still a typical CND.

Took a quick search but couldn't find it. Anyone else able to link to that post?
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I don't have the link, but I remember it too.
 
JohnCapital said:
I recall a test done years ago where someone mined CND specifically along the walls and corners to see results of cutting their searchable area to essentially 1/2 then 1/4 of possible. IIRC, the result was still a typical CND.

Took a quick search but couldn't find it. Anyone else able to link to that post?
Click to expand...

The problem with all those tests is sample size (repeatability), especially when HR is low and loot is proportionally higher as on CND. From a test showing that one was able to break even we can only conclude that one was able to break even, but we can't conclude that everyone will be able to do so.
 
Run #4

Incomes:
Total TT found: 297.36 PED

Spendings:
Bombs: 500
Decay: 8.55
Total: 508.55 PED

Short summary:
TT result: -211.19 PED
TT return: 58.47 %

Of note: Horrible run, even though I am mining like normal now there's no sign of pay-back yet.
 
My opinion

Since migration started mining returns only betveen 50%-60% at average for me.
Possible im just misleading myself, but it somehov looks correct not only for me.
MA makes event viz lovered return rates - smart. Or just cripples return for all ozer things for vhile to support migration event pool.
So im lost really big sums nov and dont vant continue till its end so i could check if im true.
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Nice tests, but i really think you vill loose some percents on stupid playing, but vill gain back biggest part of losses.
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It should be against lav to charge player viz unknovn sum or to give one player chanse to play for like l000 ped cheaper zen other one viz ze same conditions from l00k mining cycle because of lucky randomness.
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So for human(player) sake it should be controlled on player(avatar) hov much it should regain in game.
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Think for zis case, some cycle through 50k peds and is around good 95% rate on lucky random so if its random he can get lucky ATH too and cheat game viz 200% return rate on only 50k ped cycle.
So i realy believe its controlled, possible even personal loot pool vhich could be most fair thing in game, and it repays or reverse to average return rate.
 
Well, I said it would take a while to finish rounds from "then on". Maybe the next run will not take a few months, we'll see. :lolup:


Run #5

Incomes:
Total TT found: 395.65 PED

Spendings:
Bombs: 500
Decay: 9.97
Total: 509.97 PED

Short summary:
TT result: -114.32 PED
TT return: 77.58 %

Of note: Not the worst run, but no globals. One large of about 45 PED or so. Zero mobs killed.
Fun fact: My 1 day old disciple hit a 1300 PED uber. :cool:
 
Run #6

Incomes:
Total TT found: 525.17 PED

Spendings:
Bombs: 500
Decay: 8.97
Total: 508.97 PED

Short summary:
TT result: 16.2 PED
TT return: 103.2 %

Of note: No globals, but still TT profit this run.
 
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Run #7

Incomes:
Total TT found: 480.9

Spendings:
Bombs: 500
Decay: 12.56
Total: 512.56 PED

Short summary:
TT result: -31.66 PED
TT return: 93.8 %

Of note: No global.
 
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What is the tt % return of all the sensible runs currently? And of the sensible runs and insane runs combined?
 
Jimmy B said:
What is the tt % return of all the sensible runs currently? And of the sensible runs and insane runs combined?
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Grand total is in the 2nd post.

The 4 sensible runs are at 83.29 % TT return; 1699,08 loot versus 2040,05 spent (not a single global for 2k bombs).
 
Thanks.

And, as planned, there's been no other activities such as hunting/crafting in between runs?

So if this fixed return rate myth is not a myth, it sure takes a while to kick in.
 
Jimmy B said:
Thanks.

And, as planned, there's been no other activities such as hunting/crafting in between runs?

So if this fixed return rate myth is not a myth, it sure takes a while to kick in.
Click to expand...

Nope, I hadn't as much as shot at a mob before the last run. But between run 6 and 7 my disciple kicked me in the balls and we went exploring (crashing vehicles down mountains, shooting stuff, him mining randomly and me watching him die to a trox that one time without doing anything to help...). I ended up shooting for about 70 PED and lost about 10 PED in the process. So even if I cursed him for ruining my clean data, I don't think it's a big deal.
 
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