Landgrab accessibility

[Evey]

But why would they, if they have absolutely no idea what they stand to win? I think your reply is a bit shortsighted in that regard.

I keep saying, but no one outside understands / believes. We PVP for fun

It is not up to us to educate people why they should do it, some do it for fun, some do it for money, some do it out of spite, pure hate, to each their own.

Why would others PVP? None of our business. If people want LG LAs, in current format, they have to beat us. And yes, it costs a lot to do that. The reward? It's up to each to evaluate. Recently some new streamer said that if Hardcore would lose a LA, it would be something of a cataclismic magnitude. I found that funny as hell. It can happen some day, but as long as there is a fight, it will be worth it for people to win it.

Why everyone all of the sudden thinks the strongest soc should not be able to fight, beats me, but I understand... and it's because everyone in my society is just too much of a tough mtherfcker for everyone else and people can't cope with that. And I'm very proud of each sigle one of them.

 

[cc.]

Seeing some comments that basically just want to handicap Hardcore and as a member of the supposedly "enemy" soc Im totally against it. Every member of Hardcore put more time, money and effort into their avas than most can imagine, and on top of that they are a sick organised unit in pvp. Its been super fun getting my ass handed to me every time but i still show up relentless and AO do that bit better as we move forward, thanks to their challenge we improve and aim to one day have our moment.

Anyone thinking they are getting rich off tax income all I can say is I remember when we won LGs in both cK and Art of War and way back then the income was a pittance, and Im sure that hasnt changed, especially with all the new planets and exponentially more mobs. So yeah, Im 100% certain they lose too as they have to fight and spend at every LG.

This is why the comments about unique mobs with codex or buff rewards are super interesting, as that gives real reason to hold the land for the winners, and real reason for others to challenge them.

Here´s hoping that MA are reading this thread

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

LANDGRAB 3.0: Split LG LAs into tiers, based on society's average HP and professions.

Example
Low tier LA-s for groups under L50 professions and 200 HP gets the smaller, low-tax lands.
Mid tier (L50-150 profs, 200-500 HP) fights for decent mid range spots. ( Open to lowtier groups )
Elite tier (L150+ profs, 500+ HP) goes for the big or elite mob LAs. ( Open to mid and lowtier groups )

Run a LG grab each week for each tier on different days, keep 'em to 30-60 minutes with some simple additional objectives.
Refund or reduce decay by 40%

Top tier societies or players should never be punished for putting in the work, no matter how they did it. Unfortunately there is no sure fire way to solve this problem ( other games have tried with some measure of success )

 

[Evey]

There is no sure fire way to solve this problem

There is. If you want to Grill it, Skill it!

Pay your taxes to MA for high level gear and skills first is the way to go...
Do you not understand on this format societies will immediately make low, mid and elite tier subsidiaries if they want to?

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

There is. If you want to Grill it, Skill it!

Pay your taxes to MA for high level gear and skills first is the way to go...
Do you not understand on this format societies will immediately make low, mid and elite tier subsidiaries if they want to?

Yeah, they probably would, and that's exactly the point
It opens up or drags way more "tier appropriate" players into actual PVP across low to mid level tiers.

Corrected my ava name on the side bar now ...tnx lol

 

[Evey]

"tier appropriate"

This is a matter of perspective. Some think lvl 20 should be entitled to LG LAs, some don't. And it's OK to dissagre on that.

MA would love to make more people go into PVP, we would love it too. They just have to find better mixes.

 

[Theocles]

@HC you're welcome to share

I think if anyone is curious about landgrab revenues they are free to try to take them and find out, the same way we had to.

 

[tyrionnn]

As someone who goes to a a lot of LGs I don’t really see much need for change other than fix the lag. Disappearing fort sections.

Taking away my sky ripper just to force me to run through a wall of nanos isn’t exactly what I call fun.

I rather enjoyed being able to crawl the walls, maybe get an odd kill. You all know I’m a shitty PvPer but I have a lot of fun in the previous LGs.

 

[Theocles]

I think this is why they were crying

Cool flashlight.

 

[Xen]

300 million vehicles and cool music, still didnt get the fort...

I think mindark did remove the vehicles because
1. It does cause stupid lag
2. Thats not a strategy, thats "make them spend untill they give up"

But thats nothing new too...people used to spawn vehicles on claim back then

Anyways, i guess the agenda "make them spend" didnt go like expected, probably went into the wrong direction, what to do with all the pitbulls now

Economic warfare happens irl. I saw vehicles entering a fort, shooting with vehicle weapons, being used as shields, etc. What are they supposed to be used for? Do people use pitbulls for Sunday driving? If you have lag maybe you need a better system or settings. The video producer didn't seem to have a problem.

 

[Contract CH Hunter]

Economic warfare happens irl. I saw vehicles entering a fort, shooting with vehicle weapons, being used as shields, etc. What are they supposed to be used for? Do people use pitbulls for Sunday driving? If you have lag maybe you need a better system or settings. The video producer didn't seem to have a problem.

That's no good if someone else have upper hand instead of status quo.

Wonder what tank owners are thinking right now?

Sunday tank driving indeed..

What's the point of fort and huge distances if there are only infantry present?

 

[PreyNaika]

Economic warfare happens irl. I saw vehicles entering a fort, shooting with vehicle weapons, being used as shields, etc. What are they supposed to be used for? Do people use pitbulls for Sunday driving? If you have lag maybe you need a better system or settings. The video producer didn't seem to have a problem.

come on dude we both know you fucking around right now, stop this bs it counts to "basic understanding" of how servers work, dont even try to go that direction with me lol

 

[tyrionnn]

come on dude we both know you fucking around right now, stop this bs it counts to "basic understanding" of how servers work, dont even try to go that direction with me lol

What’s it have to with my sky ripper!?. Now all snipers can just sit on south or north gate with no opposition.

 

[tyrionnn]

This sounds like a massive hardware issue to me over a LG issue. But me as a smaller player is the one who gets punished… fuxk me right just send him to the wall of nanos.

 

[Alainax]

What’s it have to with my sky ripper!?. Now all snipers can just sit on south or north gate with no opposition.

I guess we have all the ones who thought bringing in vehicles was a genius plan to thank. We will all now have to run if we end at revive (but this topic would be more for the update notes thread than this ops suggestions im sure)

 

[aVaLON_52]

I think the dialogue has kinda run away from the opening post though, it's not about "punishing" the top socs or taking away, it's about restoring the competition and enjoyment of Landgrabs so that more people can participate and make it an enjoyable event.

Currently landgrab only favors top players who can attend LG because of the schedule. If LG were to happen at the same time, then varying socs can employ teamwork and strategy, rather than just the people can fill every single time slot on the rotation. This makes the whole event fairer and much more exciting for everyone including top players and high level socs.

No one has said that the investment of skill shouldn't matter, I agree, it should. Although at the same time, accessibility and balance are what have kept this game going. If mid-level or socs have a reason to show up and be part of the event, this means more PED gets cycled and the whole PVP process benefits. I believe MA wants what's best for the community.

The poll speaks for itself, people want to participate, so perhaps the aim is not to make things easier per-se, but rather more balanced across the board.

 

[Alainax]

Just as a slight side note on this post, something that might not be apparent to all those reading.

Everyone can view the up coming landgrabs in the events tab. From there you will see that landgrabs happen at all sorts of random dates and times. In order to hold them all, its not about being the strongest or most hp. Its showing up. At 3am when the families asleep. At 5am when you risk being late for work. At 1pm when its not your day off but you need to make it work. At 8pm when you juggle putting the kids to bed.


Its very much similar to what i dealt with in space for a decade. You have to be present and on the ball at all lgs/warps. The pirates/attackers only have to get lucky once.

Those who defend the lands must be present every event, no matter the time, no matter the inconvenience, no matter whats going on irl.

Land grabs in the current format are the most accessible to all. If you can figure out tactics, strategies, team work and timing. Which in the end, is what it should be.

 

[True Juan]

Land grabs in the current format are the most accessible to all.

THEN:
ck Coat Killers
Chaos Crew
Warants
Art of War
M2s
Dawn Deamons
BlackAngels HQ
ck Shadows

NOW:
Hardcore
Hardcore
Hardcore
Hardcore
Hardcore
Hardcore
Hardcore
Hardcore

8 different Societies THEN (within 2 years), 1 Society NOW. Yup, definitely a "better" and "more" accessible system now.

Btw, No hate against HC, or its members (Just presenting points for discussion). Its not your fault how the system works, you play within what the system lets you and you do the top job possible as can be seen (That doesn't mean its a good system if we compare it to how much variety it had in the old system).

 

[Twiffo]

Now that I look at my old screenshot... my experience is surprisingly similiar to LGs today

 

[Evey]

Yup, definitely a "better" and "more" accessible system now.

The being accessible part referred to the fact that now LGs are on all possible time slots, as opposed to back then with a fixed time. With any event you would have some people not being able to make an specific time slot, but everyone else can. Accessible now means you may lose one on Monday but you can make the next one on Tuesday, or weekend day.

The difference in attendance from back then and now is that LGs were once every few months, if not even rarer and because of that people would participte because of excitement.
Silly example, if we would have migration twice a month, after a few months or couple of years, rarely people would go for migra mobs.

We don't necessarily oppose to all LGs on same time slot, we're saying there are other stuff that should be addressed too, or even first, stuff more pressing. If from outside peoe can only see the one soc name, things look totally different from the other side. Even to the attacking soc, as you've seen in previous comments...

More things need to change to attract more people, in my opinion, same LGs on same time wouldn't be enough at all.
Restricting to one LA per soc might also lead to a non aggrestion pacts era I think.

The game definitely needs, apart from devs, system architects and economic experts for balancing. Many people like to just lazy grind but when you're stepping into competititve style events, Entropia competition in gaming world today is nuts, compared to what it was back then... different eon

 

[True Juan]

The being accessible part referred to the fact that now LGs are on all possible time slots, as opposed to back then with a fixed time. With any event you would have some people not being able to make an specific time slot, but everyone else can. Accessible now means you may lose one on Monday but you can make the next one on Tuesday, or weekend day.

The difference in attendance from back then and now is that LGs were once every few months, if not even rarer and because of that people would participte because of excitement.
Silly example, if we would have migration twice a month, after a few months or couple of years, rarely people would go for migra mobs.

We don't necessarily oppose to all LGs on same time slot, we're saying there are other stuff that should be addressed too, or even first, stuff more pressing. If from outside peoe can only see the one soc name, things look totally different from the other side. Even to the attacking soc, as you've seen in previous comments...

More things need to change to attract more people, in my opinion, same LGs on same time wouldn't be enough at all.
Restricting to one LA per soc might also lead to a non aggrestion pacts era I think.

The game definitely needs, apart from devs, system architects and economic experts for balancing. Many people like to just lazy grind but when you're stepping into competititve style events, Entropia competition in gaming world today is nuts, compared to what it was back then... different eon

I know Bonnie meant accessible in terms of fights in different times But I wanted to point out how accessible it is in terms of other socs having a chance.

I agree on the attendance part. Having it often makes it less special and also MA doesnt therefore make ANY form of advertisement for it. Thats why again, I believe it would be better for the game if such things were special.

Im in now way for restricting societies to have just 1 LA. Like I said best socs should be able to gain most (Altough maybe restricting to 4-5 would be healthier overall - just a thought). Also not saying that having them start at the same time would solve all issues, far from it but it could be 1 of many things to do to make it more competitive.

EU needs more competitions, more fun, for as much players as possible. We need players that can see they have chance, because if they see it they will persue it. If there is none, they will not last long in-game. (That applies to EU as a whole not just LG-specific).

I want the game to thrive and that is why I engage in discussions. We need all the angles, even for not so great ideas. MA doesnt have a chance to explore all possibilities as they dont play as much as the players. But they can read players experiences and make conclusions based on what is presented. (Ofcourse they need to weed out bad ideas).

 

[The Mind]

Make 2 or 3 clusters. That way all time zones and more socs can attend.

But make so players cant swap LGs. Once you enter one, you stay in that one till the cluster ends. It will add scouting and strength distribution to the strats.

 

[Evey]

to do to make it more competitive

That's what we need. I think we are missing that, or some of us, or most of us, I don't know...

In order to make the game more competitive we need meaningful events made by MA, plaeyer made events won't have the same success...

We need Ma to make WOF-type events, country based, soc based, PVE, PVP, large scale, universe wide.

One thing is for sure, MA needs an expert architect and an expert economist, to continuously work, improve and adapt. This is imperative for the game. We can ask stuff all day long, tehey might be good short term, but I prefer all suggestions are carefully weighted by someone with long term solid vision and also that is strong on continuously adapting all parameters....


Some cool ideas from other people thrown around in these discussions regarding better incentive for LG:
- unique mobs. currently most mobs can be found elsewhere in the world, better spawns too. even new seteh mob has identical loot table with one of the mobs from LAs...
- unique items dropping / rare / interesting stuff to not be found elsewhere. Idk... buff pills, just stuff that would raise interest from other people to participate in both LG and huntng in the lands and also, make it worthwhile to fight...

 

[The Mind]

It certainly does not need more rewards for what it is rn.
Maybe after a rework, if it will benefit the community as a whole.

 

[PreyNaika]

It certainly does not need more rewards for what it is rn.
Maybe after a rework, if it will benefit the community as a whole.

After a rework the community will complain again and again and again and again

And again
Edit* and again

 

[The Mind]

After a rework the community will complain again and again and again and again

And again
Edit* and again

Nobody was stopping you when you were crying about recent changes to UL.
You/they/we, as a players, have all the right to do it. Its all good.
People cry only when they care. Otherwise, they just leave in silence.

 

[Sulje]

I want the game to thrive and that is why I engage in discussions. We need all the angles, even for not so great ideas. MA doesnt have a chance to explore all possibilities as they dont play as much as the players. But they can read players experiences and make conclusions based on what is presented. (Ofcourse they need to weed out bad ideas).

I agree that discussions are needed, but claiming that someone didn't deserve what they have is nonsense. As Bonnie mentioned somewhere, we have to wake up in the middle of the night sometimes, take day off work, affects the RL significantly, and in case they dumb it down to make it easier for someone who isn't even trying, they will lose significant amount of high value players immediately.

High end competition must remain extreme or it isn't a competition any more.

Same goes for mayhems and everything else in the game - make it harder, not easier. If you can just win something by pressing F button repeatedly, that's devaluing the product acquired at the other end of that grind.

Imagine someone born with no hands demands that everyone else cuts off their hands to be equal, that's illogical.

 

[PreyNaika]

Nobody was stopping you when you were crying about recent changes to UL.
You/they/we, as a players, have all the right to do it. Its all good.
People cry only when they care. Otherwise, they just leave in silence.

Thats the thing the ul thing did impact every Player

The landgeab thing is a agenda pushed by a handfull of people

Cant tell me that now out of nowhwre half server population want to do landgrabs, dude i never saw those players doing pvp

But to be honest with you, i dont care how they change it or if they change it ... i will have to adapt , adapt to situations thats something a handfull of players cant do, so they complain and complain and complain all over untill mindark does something


Just like with the ul items

Tell me now, where are all the people who did demand cheap items? Yes my friend ... they are gone, they did theyr damage to the economy and then left the game
Good job ! And good job mindark for listening to casuals

Not saying that you are a casual in this game, but how can you demand a pvp change if you have like 5 kills in pvp since creation of your account

People jump in out of nowhere , who never did pvp, thats not natural, i know the Manipulation those people do, they tryed to do that to me too, dont play me like that dude.

I am not against people who demand changes, i am against the idiology where people who got nothing to do with the topic demand a fundamental change

Its like when i jump into your Business what ever you do and tell you to do it diferent.

 

[True Juan]

I agree that discussions are needed, but claiming that someone didn't deserve what they have is nonsense. As Bonnie mentioned somewhere, we have to wake up in the middle of the night sometimes, take day off work, affects the RL significantly, and in case they dumb it down to make it easier for someone who isn't even trying, they will lose significant amount of high value players immediately.

High end competition must remain extreme or it isn't a competition any more.

Same goes for mayhems and everything else in the game - make it harder, not easier. If you can just win something by pressing F button repeatedly, that's devaluing the product acquired at the other end of that grind.

Imagine someone born with no hands demands that everyone else cuts off their hands to be equal, that's illogical.

I fully agree and with your logic in mind the old version of LGs were therefore harder(for everyone), as it was impossible for 1 society to dominate everyone. (Even if awake all day/night).

 

[Sulje]

I fully agree and with your logic in mind the old version of LGs were therefore harder(for everyone), as it was impossible for 1 society to dominate everyone. (Even if awake all day/night).

Why would i participate in something like that? For what benefit? Right now there are no benefits, at that point there would be even more cost and less benefits