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Info: Leeloo's Mining Guide

Added your weight problem
 
Wondering if any 1 else has noticed that the higher Tier your using on UNL finders, the less the enhancers break?
 
I suggest this thread for sticky. For someone who just starts mining, all this information is valuable. When I started mining, I wished i could have a mentor who knew about mining but I had already graduated by then. I googled here and there but never came upon this thread, especially one by Leeloo, a player I admire because she plays wisely and is willing to share, as many other players in this forum, from her vast experience. So I went today to her shop in Treasure Island looking for enhancers and got advice on which finder to use at my level how many enhancers to get and whether to use amps and which amps and came out of there feeling a bit more comfortable.
 
Haha awesome advice with the cars, never thought at this :laugh:

Gread thread, I must say. Even if it has some theoretical unprovable premises, the suggested behaviour is sound and is what it matters in the end, what we do with the theory.

There is something which I would add. I must confess that I am the kind which TT's 90% of his finds and focuses on few high MU finds. The idea with trying to sell all finds is great, but you have to be careful with your bankroll. This works great if you mine unamped and, most important, you have patience. I did tons of mistakes not having patience. If you manage (I usually don't) to immerse in this roleplay of mining where TT exists only to buy probes from (and to sell eventual broken L tools), it will completely change your game. Try to replace the HoF table with your pedcard. That is what should give swirles :) Alternative to selling small stacks but still not TT stuff is to try to focus (after the unavoidable beginning period when you map resources) to something like 50ped (for low MU, for high MU even 10 ped can work) tt of a resource. So, say, if you have 500 peds on your name, try to go for 4-5 resources only (and 2-3 more will come anyway), so somehow the stacks are easier to manage. Also finding a crafter with a permanent need for certain resource can be a great way to save both time, auction fees and build nice human relations.

P.S.: almost forgot: WERE YOU USING AMPS WHEN YOU HIT THAT ATH?? IT'S BEEN YEARS SINCE I'M WONDERING :laugh:

P.P.S: basic mapping can be done with rookie finder also. Heavily biased towards lowdepth resources, so lots of lyst belk blau oil melchi etc, but at least you have SOME intel.
 
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Kerham said:
Haha awesome advice with the cars, never thought at this :laugh:

Gread thread, I must say. Even if it has some theoretical unprovable premises, the suggested behaviour is sound and is what it matters in the end, what we do with the theory.

There is something which I would add. I must confess that I am the kind which TT's 90% of his finds and focuses on few high MU finds. The idea with trying to sell all finds is great, but you have to be careful with your bankroll. This works great if you mine unamped and, most important, you have patience. I did tons of mistakes not having patience. If you manage (I usually don't) to immerse in this roleplay of mining where TT exists only to buy probes from (and to sell eventual broken L tools), it will completely change your game. Try to replace the HoF table with your pedcard. That is what should give swirles :) Alternative to selling small stacks but still not TT stuff is to try to focus (after the unavoidable beginning period when you map resources) to something like 50ped (for low MU, for high MU even 10 ped can work) tt of a resource. So, say, if you have 500 peds on your name, try to go for 4-5 resources only (and 2-3 more will come anyway), so somehow the stacks are easier to manage. Also finding a crafter with a permanent need for certain resource can be a great way to save both time, auction fees and build nice human relations.

P.S.: almost forgot: WERE YOU USING AMPS WHEN YOU HIT THAT ATH?? IT'S BEEN YEARS SINCE I'M WONDERING :laugh:

P.P.S: basic mapping can be done with rookie finder also. Heavily biased towards lowdepth resources, so lots of lyst belk blau oil melchi etc, but at least you have SOME intel.
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Nice tips here also :) Thank you very much.

I really wrote this cause many people I know where telling me how much they where loosing lots cause they where mainly running around (read chicken run) while dropping probes, so hope it helped. Lots cant be proven imo, its just the way I mine, have fun make profit.

It takes indeed patience with the low end recources, but they do sell. Other mining friends do the same now and it changed their way of mining also, but need to admit I keep having big stacks of garcen, lyst, blaus, even narc in storage.

For the moment I'm focussing on high MU ores/enmatters + the mining missions since those ores/enmatter come as "collateral" damage and as to be expected they are stacking up in storage. Making small stacks like 50-100-200-300-400 and putting them on auction helps cause they do sell.
Only go for a few resources helps indeed a lot to not stack up much.
A crafter will not buy at those high rates you sell at auction cause of the small stack. I craft enhancers/amps myself and sell my own recources on auction (small stacks with high mu) and buy very cheap stuff to craft with :p

And for that ATH .... I found it with a F-105 maxed and no amp on it, this isn't possible anymore now since all is capped.
 
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Go with the flow has been added

GL mining all ^^
 
Thank you so much for creating this. I'm still new to mining and this exposed some gaps in my knowledge.

I do have a question about overlapping though - why is it a problem?

Out of ignorance when I get a hit, I have been continuing to drop probes around that hit until it runs dry. This just seemed intuitive to me, and often I can stack up 6-8 claims right in the same spot. I've gotten 2 HOFS this way. Are you saying this shouldn't happen? My overall returns seem pretty decent so far.
 
Detritus said:
Thank you so much for creating this. I'm still new to mining and this exposed some gaps in my knowledge.

I do have a question about overlapping though - why is it a problem?

Out of ignorance when I get a hit, I have been continuing to drop probes around that hit until it runs dry. This just seemed intuitive to me, and often I can stack up 6-8 claims right in the same spot. I've gotten 2 HOFS this way. Are you saying this shouldn't happen? My overall returns seem pretty decent so far.
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It is possible to have 2-3 claims at 1 spot but those are very rare and SR (Succes Rate) is very small.
Because of the SR is so low it will make your run more expensive and it will be harder to get a decent return (80+% TT) How many times did you drop a probe with overlapping and how many times you had a hit?
That's why I wouldn't recommend it, but if you feel like it please do :)
 
For the moment I'm over 500 drops with ores/enmatters without breaking 1 enhancers with a F-106 Tier 5

Done another 100 drops without breaking any enhancers

Also added more info why not to mine for ores/enm at the same time.
 
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Speed enhancers addes

I'm also over 600 drops without braking 1 enhancer now.
 
Wrote this for a disciple, perhaps it could be useful for other people out there:

Rubberbanding and other bad omens

It seems we're getting occasional server/lag issues lately again; here are some things a miner should watch out for.

- Rubberbanding: when you suddenly jump back into an earlier position, sometimes as far as 100+ m back. Anything more than 10 m should make you worried. (In rare cases, forward rubberbanding also happens but it's usually caused by lag spikes and is not something to worry about.)
- Repeated "target too far away" messages even though you're standing in front of a claim. Once this can happen due to lag or even stumbling across something, but twice in a row is a cause of concern.
- Claim(s) outside of finder range behind you.

Any of the above signs means the client has trouble synchronizing your position to the server, so you might be dropping probes not where you think you're dropping them. At the first occurence one should relog (and possibly reset router/network adapter if those are known to act up sometimes); if those signs repeat themselves, better leave that server alone.

All this doesn't happen often but has been on the rise lately; the probable cause is that the weekly server maintenance hasn't happened since the last VU. Either they want to squeeze every last hour of of migration... or the guy who knows what to do is on vacation.
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Over 700 drops now with 2 depth enhancers without breaking them on a F-106 Tier 5

Also added range enhancers to the mining help.
 
Me Really Never said:
dont range enhancers decrease claim size, equivalent to the range enhancement?
Click to expand...

As I only mine with UNL finder and use depth enhancers all the time I have no idea.

A friend is testing out Range enhancers and he told me his (close) claims so far where bigger than those further away so this might be the case if you find a claim like at 56 or further away. Awaiting his conclution.

Still not worth using them imo
 
LeelooM said:
As I only mine with UNL finder and use depth enhancers all the time I have no idea.

A friend is testing out Range enhancers and he told me his (close) claims so far where bigger than those further away so this might be the case if you find a claim like at 56 or further away. Awaiting his conclution.

Still not worth using them imo
Click to expand...

as far as i know the claim size is in directly proportional to the finder range. which means a smaller finding radius means a higher claim size.
when calculating it out it fits perfectly to the finder range indoors and the average bigger claim size.

this would mean that increasing the finder range to like 60m would help you finding more claims (higher hitrate) but the average size would go down. i guess long term it will even itself out somehow but it might be interesting for amping, when you want to have a higher hitrate rather than a bigger claim size.
of course the differences are pretty small in terms of 2 or 3m but over a few thousand drops it might be noticable.
 
Me Really Never said:
as far as i know the claim size is in directly proportional to the finder range. which means a smaller finding radius means a higher claim size.
when calculating it out it fits perfectly to the finder range indoors and the average bigger claim size.

this would mean that increasing the finder range to like 60m would help you finding more claims (higher hitrate) but the average size would go down. i guess long term it will even itself out somehow but it might be interesting for amping, when you want to have a higher hitrate rather than a bigger claim size.
of course the differences are pretty small in terms of 2 or 3m but over a few thousand drops it might be noticable.
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This is very interesting indeed ^^
Higher hit rating would be great off course, specially for indoor mining since there are already bigger claims (due to finder range)


BTW another 100 drops made without breaking a depth enh (still using lvl 1 and 2 enhancers) so for the moment at 800 drops
 
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Me Really Never said:
as far as i know the claim size is in directly proportional to the finder range. which means a smaller finding radius means a higher claim size.
when calculating it out it fits perfectly to the finder range indoors and the average bigger claim size.

this would mean that increasing the finder range to like 60m would help you finding more claims (higher hitrate) but the average size would go down. i guess long term it will even itself out somehow but it might be interesting for amping, when you want to have a higher hitrate rather than a bigger claim size.
of course the differences are pretty small in terms of 2 or 3m but over a few thousand drops it might be noticable.
Click to expand...

I've tested this... Range enhancers do not affect claims size..

They DO affect variance - you'll hof/global less because your hit rate will be higher as more range = more claims

unless of course you believe that more claims = more chances to hit multis.. which is wrong in mining... TT loss generates multis in mining.
 
Rocket192 said:
I've tested this... Range enhancers do not affect claims size..

They DO affect variance - you'll hof/global less because your hit rate will be higher as more range = more claims

unless of course you believe that more claims = more chances to hit multis.. which is wrong in mining... TT loss generates multis in mining.
Click to expand...

do you have any data to your test? like how many range enhancer (range difference between unenhanced and enhanced) and how many drops etc etc. I forgot how much a range enhancer adds but i think it was 0,5m. and 0,5m is a little under 1% of the normal finder range, which would mean a claim size difference of 1% per claim, on average that may be something like 0.02 ped. pretty tough to prove that... could easily be explained with variance.
also the difference may be compensated by the costs of the enhancer. if thats returned in loot there might not be a difference at all.

a nice test would be 2 finder with same decay and different range... but lots and lots and lots of drops needed each and even then it might be variance lol
 
Me Really Never said:
do you have any data to your test? like how many range enhancer (range difference between unenhanced and enhanced) and how many drops etc etc. I forgot how much a range enhancer adds but i think it was 0,5m. and 0,5m is a little under 1% of the normal finder range, which would mean a claim size difference of 1% per claim, on average that may be something like 0.02 ped. pretty tough to prove that... could easily be explained with variance.
also the difference may be compensated by the costs of the enhancer. if thats returned in loot there might not be a difference at all.

a nice test would be 2 finder with same decay and different range... but lots and lots and lots of drops needed each and even then it might be variance lol
Click to expand...

test was done in 2014... so prior to the mining alterations in 2015 and now again in 2017, but yeah each enhancer added 0.8% search radius to the finder. Across 14,000 drops.. using range enhancers in T1-T3 of an f106 i got 31.62% hit rate compared to 28.1% hit rate across 12,500 drops with no range enhancer. All drops were done for ore only on shinook server (man i miss when gazz was plentiful and 135%)...

TT return shook out to be the same, but i didn't hit as many big hofs... TT for both setups was ~92% TT.

It's a difficult thing to measure, but I'm making the assumption based on my data that hit rate is affected and variance is reduced, rather than claim size being increased. I don't have the data to measure the size of each individual claim...

The conclusion to my test is that range enhancers are good for grinding indoors and horrible for planet mining.. but generally just bad to use given their markup since i'd burn 1-3 every 1k drops.
 
Rocket192 said:
test was done in 2014... so prior to the mining alterations in 2015 and now again in 2017, but yeah each enhancer added 0.8% search radius to the finder. Across 14,000 drops.. using range enhancers in T1-T3 of an f106 i got 31.62% hit rate compared to 28.1% hit rate across 12,500 drops with no range enhancer. All drops were done for ore only on shinook server (man i miss when gazz was plentiful and 135%)...

TT return shook out to be the same, but i didn't hit as many big hofs... TT for both setups was ~92% TT.

It's a difficult thing to measure, but I'm making the assumption based on my data that hit rate is affected and variance is reduced, rather than claim size being increased. I don't have the data to measure the size of each individual claim...

The conclusion to my test is that range enhancers are good for grinding indoors and horrible for planet mining.. but generally just bad to use given their markup since i'd burn 1-3 every 1k drops.
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definitely interesting data. but my claim that the average claim size is a tiny bit smaller with increased range still stands. you would need to plot every single claim over thousands of claims to get enough data points to cut out the variance... a really fucking shitty test with not really much info ^^
 
This morning it finally happend .... I broke 1 depth enhancer on drop 977 :yay: on a F106 Tier 5 using lvl 1 and lvl 2
 
I love how detailed this guide is. That's how I used to do mining and this guide explains everything I had doubts about, since I'm still newbie in this profession. :)
Did one small run yesterday and HoF-ed. :) After a 2-year break.
 
Hex grid mining is the way to go .. I have even set up an Excel sheet that either changes the size of the hexes dynamically depending on my hitrate or filter out points based on my hitrate essentially skipping certain hexes, provides an amazingly fast preview of the resource concentration in an area. It even shuts mining down when my hitrate drops below 25% or if I profit by 25%.

It would be nice to see other avatars using some of these techniques when mining. I may even share a watered down copy of the excel sheet if there is enough interest.
 
Interestingly enough. A Hex is not the "best in slot" solution for our little packing problem. A hex grid is not square. A more optimal solution would be to work out the best locations for each number of probes your avatar has at the time. In other words the layout and size of the grid will change per probe drop.

A simple google search will lead you to a couple of sites that contain detailed data on the circle packing and travelling salesman problems.
 
Ye it uses density shifting circle packings. The idea is very simple, arrange x circles in a square where the sides take up the least amount of space.

The average hitrate % in the game is 27.1% which means that 72.9% of the space is wasted. There are also now three resource types in the game. If I assume that it is equally likely to hit any one of the three when mining, my base chance drops to 33.33333%. 27.1 / 33.3333 is 0.813 which would equate to 81.3% coverage or 18.7% waste.

The website packomania.com has a list of packing densities and other data that can be used to reverse engineer the amount of circles. Which is closest to .....

1826 circles .... You may notice that it is only about 8% off from the density of a hexagonal lattice. The circle packing for 1826 is here
 
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rouz said:
I love how detailed this guide is. That's how I used to do mining and this guide explains everything I had doubts about, since I'm still newbie in this profession. :)
Did one small run yesterday and HoF-ed. :) After a 2-year break.
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Thank you Rouz :)
I'm very glad it helped you out and huge gz on the hof ^^
 
Extractors
For extractors its important that decay is as less as possible off course to keep your costs down.
Check here for Efficiency/pec and what is affordable for you. http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=Excavator
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Thought I would contribute to this section a bit if you don't mind :ahh:

Guide for choosing an extractor (for serious miners):

Avoid crafted extractors.

Improved Excavator is the most efficient and the 2nd fastest UL extractor. Overall the best extractor currently available in-game.

Adjusted Excavator is slightly slower than improved and almost as efficient (at half the pricetag). Only slightly more efficient than the TT excavator. Great balance of speed and efficiency. Overall the safest and most popular investment.

Modified Excavator is the fastest, but extremely inefficient (Roughly double the speed of Adjusted, for triple the average decay). To put that in perspective, for every 800 PED of Lyst you dig up, you'll be spending ~20 more PED in decay using Mod over Adjusted.

Genesis Star Earth Excavator ME/05, SGA Edition is a poor man's adjusted excavator. Similar speed to adj but far less efficient. Slightly better than Rock Ripper Gold Rush Edition. Not recommended if you can afford Adjusted.

TT extractor is the best choice if you can't buy any of these. Highly efficient (more efficient than all of the above except Imp/Adj) but extremely slow drilling speed. Unless you're drilling up a lot of low TT resources (alternative rock :dunce:), this will get the job done and save you plenty of PED over the crafted options. I recommend sticking with this and looking to purchase one of the above as soon as humanly possible if you're a high volume miner.

Why would you want an expensive drill? Simple. Less time spent drilling is more time spent dropping. More dropping means more profit. Unless you're online 40+ hours a week, your time management will be a large factor in your success. In a rush to fill an order or take advantage of a market spike? A high-end drill is your best friend.

With a modified excavator, you're spending roughly 6 minutes drilling what would take you half an hour with the TT excavator. For anyone mining on a regular basis, these minutes add up - fast. Find the balance between speed and efficiency that works for your mining habits and bankroll.
 
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ZPF said:
Thought I would contribute to this section a bit if you don't mind :ahh:

Guide for choosing an extractor (for serious miners):

Avoid crafted extractors.

Improved Excavator is the most efficient and the 2nd fastest UL extractor. Overall the best extractor currently available in-game.

Adjusted Excavator is slightly slower than improved and almost as efficient (at half the pricetag). Only slightly more efficient than the TT excavator. Great balance of speed and efficiency. Overall the safest and most popular investment.

Modified Excavator is the fastest, but extremely inefficient (Roughly double the speed of Adjusted, for triple the average decay). To put that in perspective, for every 800 PED of Lyst you dig up, you'll be spending ~20 more PED in decay using Mod over Adjusted.

Genesis Star Earth Excavator ME/05, SGA Edition is a poor man's adjusted excavator. Similar speed to adj but far less efficient. Slightly better than Rock Ripper Gold Rush Edition. Not recommended if you can afford Adjusted.

TT extractor is the best choice if you can't buy any of these. Highly efficient (more efficient than all of the above except Imp/Adj) but extremely slow drilling speed. Unless you're drilling up a lot of low TT resources (alternative rock :dunce:), this will get the job done and save you plenty of PED over the crafted options. I recommend sticking with this and looking to purchase one of the above as soon as humanly possible if you're a high volume miner.

Why would you want an expensive drill? Simple. Less time spent drilling is more time spent dropping. More dropping means more profit. Unless you're online 40+ hours a week, your time management will be a large factor in your success. In a rush to fill an order or take advantage of a market spike? A high-end drill is your best friend.

With a modified excavator, you're spending roughly 6 minutes drilling what would take you half an hour with the TT excavator. For anyone mining on a regular basis, these minutes add up - fast. Find the balance between speed and efficiency that works for your mining habits and bankroll.
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Not at all and tyvm :) Every advice is welcome. Good to see we all mine in a different way also

I still use the RE-101 :p I can mine whole day and eve so ..... More dropping means more profit, doesn't count all the time imo, it can also mean more loss :p

Filling an order .... depends what % those have and mostly its very low so I never do that and put stacks up (on auction) after counting costs/return and figured out what % to sell for to get highest profit.

Looking at the price of some of those extractors ..... I prefer buying bombs for it
 
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LeelooM said:
I still use the RE-101 :p I can mine whole day and eve so ..... More dropping means more profit, doesn't count all the time imo, it can also mean more loss :p
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You lose a lot of efficiency with that, but at least you don't have to carry multiple TT drills :laugh:

If I think I'm going to lose money, I don't drop :wise:

LeelooM said:
Filling an order .... depends what % those have and mostly its very low so I never do that and put stacks up (on auction) after counting costs/return and figured out what % to sell for to get highest profit.
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Sometimes the orders are very competitive. It all ties in to "time management". Sometimes a quick sale to an order means you can go back to dropping much sooner, rather than staring at your empty PED card waiting for auctions to sell :laugh: But yes you're right, most of the time you're better off pricing higher than the orders.

LeelooM said:
Looking at the price of some of those extractors ..... I prefer buying bombs for it
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Yeah you have to do what works for your bankroll!
 
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