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Legal to have Lottos or other drawings in game...?

J

Joker

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not trying to piss on anyones parade... I think the prizes are fantastic... and looks like a great event... just wanted to get some color on this... beacuse i will be participating...





Originally Posted by Akoz


Drawing rules
The winner be drawn based on the eurolottery numbers from Tuesday 4th of September 2012 according to the same principle as posted in my previous event. After first prize has been drawn all entries from the winner is removed and the second prize will be drawn from the new list based on the same principle. Third prize will go to the one with the most points.



Is this illegal?
Esp. in various countries... even against the EULA?

but I really think you should look into the legality...

I know another recent LA owner was going to do this... but it broke some rules and they went another route... (most global)

before i spend many hours I want to make sure it wont get shut down right before the prizes are given out because it turns out to be illegal somehow...


so lets nip it in the bud...
 
Seventy Was said:
What aspect about it makes it illegal?
Click to expand...

any time you have drawings... lottos... it is considered in many countries to be gambling... and possibly Illegal... and maybe even something in the EULA against it..


that is why I am posing this question...

Like i said... Meculus was going to have an event or part of his event be a drawing... but said it was illegal... and scrapped it...
 
I suspect it may break some kind of gaming legislation if a consideration if given over in exchange for participation in a draw of some sort. I though according to the EULA all in-game stuffs belog Mindark. Therefore the consumption of any in-game things, as indeed are sales of expensive items like weapons are not subject to any taxation in the players locale.
 
Seventy Was said:
I suspect it may break some kind of gaming legislation if a consideration if given over in exchange for participation in a draw of some sort. I though according to the EULA all in-game stuffs belog Mindark. Therefore the consumption of any in-game things, as indeed are sales of expensive items like weapons are not subject to any taxation in the players locale.
Click to expand...

the other aspect is it is based on LUCK... vs most globals...

When you bring luck from a drawing into things... it is gambling... and not a fixed outcome based on participation...

your %age outcome increases with more globals... but it is still gambling... much like placing more chips on various spots on a craps table...


MA has faught hard with many govts. to prove it is not gambling... this drawing could definatly be against MAs rules now...

Things have maybe changed since 2005 when we had a contest like this one...

all i am saying is look into the legality... before the contest starts
or talk to Meculus and figure out why he canceled that part of his event...

I dont have the answers that is why I am asking here
 
I get in contests all the time where they use random.org to pick the winner ( won a CPU+Motherboard that way :p ), and never had a problem. If you are so concerned about it being illegal say in the rules you pick the winner by yourself and not by any kind of randomness, and then do whatever you want to randomize it. Come on this is the internet o_O'

Can't find a problem with it btw.
 
since the "draw" is to take place outside of the game, its nothing to do with the EULA so is fine. however, unless you write an email to MA to specifically clarify this, you wont get an official statement to that effect, and they probably give an ambigous answer anyway ("...any gambling in the game is not permitted...").

if its illegal for you to take part in a lottery in your country is up to you to find out i reckon.
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
I get in contests all the time where they use random.org to pick the winner ( won a CPU+Motherboard that way :p ), and never had a problem. If you are so concerned about it being illegal say in the rules you pick the winner by yourself and not by any kind of randomness, and then do whatever you want to randomize it. Come on this is the internet o_O'

Can't find a problem with it btw.
Click to expand...


I dont see the issue either...
But like i said a portion of an event was canceled because the drawing was illegal or something... I will ask the event holder next time i see him...

Anyone ever read the entire EULA...
I would also suggest filing a support to make sure it is legal... I am leaving in a few days...

I posted this orginally in the event... but it get lost in all the !register things
 
Joker I think perhaps you're missing the premise of my argument. I am not basing anything on what I say about the draw or method of choosing.

Simply what I'm interested in, is that The EULA says Mindark owns all in-game stuff. Therefore it is not able to be considered as gaming(gambling)because nothing is actually spent or has the possibility of being won. It's all belonging to Mindark, not the user.
 
Seventy Was said:
Joker I think perhaps you're missing the premise of my argument. I am not basing anything on what I say about the draw or method of choosing.

Simply what I'm interested in, is that The EULA says Mindark owns all in-game stuff. Therefore it is not able to be considered as gaming(gambling)because nothing is actually spent or has the possibility of being won. It's all belonging to Mindark, not the user.
Click to expand...


true .
 
i remember when magyar was threatened with a ban or perma-lock by MA for making a small scale drawing within EU even though it was only for his soc members. so i would say no its not legal in EU.
 
Joker said:
true .
Click to expand...



ingame assets are your belongings when its yours.
there are international law supporting this.

so its simple

lottery ---> gambling ----> gambling not legal for mind-ark ----> entropia universe and all what to do with it is under the hood of mind-ark ---> makes it iligal to do so.

for as long mind-ark has no permit for gambling activity any form of gambling is iligal and can result in a ban , permanent ban , and if you are lucky a really big fine.
if you decide to go on with it ,then just make sure mind-ark has nothing to do with it.
do so by making a lottery site in a country where it is legal to do so and be sure you make no remarks to mind ark or other games.


just m2 pecs
 
Joker said:
the other aspect is it is based on LUCK... vs most globals...

..
Click to expand...

How is getting the most globals not luck based? What element of skill determines that you will global?
 
I created a support case on this subject once and the response was pretty clear.

I was to be hanged from the angles till the end of time if I ever even asked the question again... more or less.

In shot, if MA haven't changed anything, it is not allowed. However, whether it is legal or not is another matter. ;)
 
Shadowsong said:
How is getting the most globals not luck based? What element of skill determines that you will global?
Click to expand...

Obviously shooting bigger mobs will generate you a higher global/time rate.
 
Cerberus said:
Obviously shooting bigger mobs will generate you a higher global/time rate.
Click to expand...

Take any group of players into any LA on a "most globals" setting, and only one will win. They all hunt the same maturity over the same period. How does skill determine the winner? Why will the winner have many more globals than the lowest placed participant?


In my experience, it is quite possible to have no globals while others are hitting many, all on the same mob at the same time. Can't see how this is skill based.
 
Shadowsong said:
How is getting the most globals not luck based? What element of skill determines that you will global?
Click to expand...

Information, preparation, execution, budget...
 
Sidney said:
ingame assets are your belongings when its yours.
there are international law supporting this.

so its simple

lottery ---> gambling ----> gambling not legal for mind-ark ----> entropia universe and all what to do with it is under the hood of mind-ark ---> makes it iligal to do so.

for as long mind-ark has no permit for gambling activity any form of gambling is iligal and can result in a ban , permanent ban , and if you are lucky a really big fine.
if you decide to go on with it ,then just make sure mind-ark has nothing to do with it.
do so by making a lottery site in a country where it is legal to do so and be sure you make no remarks to mind ark or other games.


just m2 pecs
Click to expand...

Ingame assets are MindArks, you just "borrows" it. ;)

Don't have time atm to write my p.o.v of the law, since I have to run. :D
 
If we owned our assets then it may be considered gambling in some places, however, we don't actually own anything, until a withdrawal is complete. Hard to prove your were gambling with assets that legally, and technically have no value.

And if you did prove it, how much would actually be considered to be owned? TT value.
Which eliminates a huge chunk of value for most people. And turning a legal battle over thousands of dollars into a very small judgement.

What holds the most value in EU? Land areas, and what TT Value do they actually represent? less than one PED each. My opalo will get a better return in a judgement.

Also, Eve online has a real cash component with the monthly cash passes that you can sell for isk, and they run big lotteries in there every week. I am sure by now we would have seen a case if it were anything that had a legal basis to go on over the last decade.

EU is also bound by Swedish law, so if there was a case it could be in Sweden only, and according to the laws there only, regardless of where you are from.

Just because someone says it has value, does not mean it does, especially when we log in every day accepting that we do not own anything. If someone placed an opalo on auction for 15k usd and some idiot bought it, that doesn't mean that everyone now has a 15k usd opalo.

As you can see, the legal clarifications of what is actually owned would be a huge, painful and expensive lawsuit, just by itself. And I doubt any of us would like the result.
 
I actually think it could be counted as gambling and break at least the swedish law, but what law we follow on internet only gods knows :laugh:
 
It is not a lottery. Randomness and gambling are not the same thing. I've done events like this on several occasions in the past, as have many others, and it's been fine.

Not sure why it even matters to you Joker, since you're quitting anyway :rolleyes:
 
its not legal or we would have had entropia lottery brought to u by some avatar already.

governments make it so that they can take all the money. in the Belgian lotto and Euromillions they hand out 50% in prize money. (1million giveaway means 2million' worth of tickets sold)

when u have a tombola for a good cause its a different thing but u still have to ask authorities if u are allowed to. (but this is not the case as he is making tax money)


having said all that, i think this will be allowed for this rich guy.
it would however be illegal for myself or another poor lad who thinks he sees money in it.
 
next question - is giving out CLDs, or other items like the real world hardware that has been given out in some previous events over the years in loot considered gambling? I know, just like the other question -- probably nothing anyone can say 100%... actually they'll probably say that loot is based on skill so it is not a game of risk as pure gambling is... just raises a question or two, etc. Part of what happens as Planet Partners and Mindark are two seperate entities but work together in making the algorithms to fill the loot pool.
 
Grower said:
its not legal or we would have had entropia lottery brought to u by some avatar already.
Click to expand...

People have tried genuine lotteries on several occasions, and have been shut down by MA pretty quickly. Search for Lootto on this forum and you should find one example.

Events with random drawings like this one however have always been allowed, so the position is quite clear.

The chances of winning the prizes in this event are not purely determined by luck, they are also based on participation and skill - i.e. you actually have to do something in order to to win, you don't just buy a ticket. That is what makes the difference.

Again, including a random element does not make it a lottery.
 
Oleg said:
The chances of winning the prizes in this event are not purely determined by luck, they are also based on participation and skill - i.e. you actually have to do something in order to to win, you don't just buy a ticket. That is what makes the difference.

Again, including a random element does not make it a lottery.
Click to expand...

I don't agree, globalling can be seen as buying a ticket for x ped tax
 
There is a section in the EULA saying that players can't make in game lotteries or engage in gambling. Altho I don't think giving away random prizes is a problem. I think there mostly against gambling where you have to pay to enter, where the winner wins part of what was made. Maybe because gambling is ilegal in some countries but I think it's mostly because they don't want people to make money that way.
 
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