Let's Help MindArk Improve PvP - Idea Thread

Thark

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Hi Thark,

1) The reward you are mentioning is already in place when you "loot the toxic shot" of a player in lootable pvp, usually 1-5ped, but can be up to 5000ped+. Big fights in lootable pvp are always very fun and happens way too seldom as most players tend to avoid lootable pvp. Also the cost will in 99% of the cases outweigh the gain, by far.

In normal pvp zones there are just expenses, and looked upon as a complete waste of money, although most of the spending will be returned in loot.

The "capture the flag" thing you mention can be compared with the land grab, that's where you can find most big fights throughout the year. But the way land grab works nowadays is very imbalanced, and it will always be the top 2 strongest pvp societies fighting for them, as other societies wont stand even a tiny chance.

To promote land grab more, MA could start all lang grabs off at the same time, like in the old days. Societies already holding a land should be banned from going to other on-going LGs to help people out or claim more lands. The ownership period should also last longer (6-12 months?) so it would be easier for the holders to make events on their land, at the current status if an event is made and the land is lost on the next fight, everything will be cancelled.

2) There are already incentives in place to have more people in PVP zones (good mobs and resources). I think most people are happy with the activity level in lootable pvp zones today, the issue is the massive amount of exploiters which destroys the whole risk-reward structure of the zones.

In short, I think most pvpers want fixes\improvements to the current system, this would automatically make pvp more interesting for a broader audience and attract more people.

Best regards,
Lars
Thank you so much for the great and comprehensive summary m8! Really appreciate it.

Seems to me, Raffaele Meiers, you have a very specific idea that you'd like to see implemented? I can see a few issues with it, but mostly I guess it seems a good idea to me too.

The other stuff about people exploiting things; I guess I would use every advantage I can too in a pvp situation. I'm not sure I would call this an exploit, if exploit means that MA can punish you for it. Just because I think in PvP with real money on the line, the system needs to be tight. Because I feel that pvp would be the most competitive where you should be able to use every tiny little advantage you can get. So I feel, yeah if there is an easy way to avoid the whole point of lootable pvp, then maybe MA should have a look at it, so as to make it more fun for everyone. Tho, figuring out how to get an edge in pvp is the whole fun, no? IF the system is solid, then finding that one corner on some counter strike map where you can shoot someone 1/10th of a second earlier seems like fun? (I dunno if that sentence makes sense, never played CS but it seems sensical)

Reading Cirrus's fort event comment kinda makes me wanna try that. We'd need someone impartial setting up roughly equal teams so its not a total stomp but shooting 6 mins of ammo for an hour of fun with the chance to win the loosing teams ammo, seems like an awesome event. Might actually even be similarly bad ass as WOF, no? Countries competing against each other, not only for glory but also for a few PED in loot for a won event? Seems like something someone who is into pvp should set up. Id def participate in that pvp tournament, noob that I am even.

Anyway, thanks for informing me. Hope MA eventually makes PvP fun.

Cheers
 
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Alina

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The other stuff about people exploiting things; I guess I would use every advantage I can too in a pvp situation. I'm not sure I would call this an exploit, if exploit means that MA can punish you for it.

 

Thark

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Hey Alina,

Could you post the question you asked? Just for full content? Not summarize but your ticket? That answer seems very cut and paste and non-committal.

Also (please) do not quote me in such sort snippets. I feel I explained my position, fairly well. Your picture after shortening what I said to such an extent makes it seem like I habitually exploit. Which I do not. Thank you

Cheers
 
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raulpon

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Since PVP is pay to win and space combat is beeing exploited, 2 options:

1. Equalize stats in PVP areas (defense, damage etc, have skill, not Mastercard)
2. Remove space combat until it's fixed
 

Theocles

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Since PVP is pay to win and space combat is beeing exploited, 2 options:

1. Equalize stats in PVP areas (defense, damage etc, have skill, not Mastercard)
2. Remove space combat until it's fixed
Could not disagree with this more, shall we redistribute wealth while we are at it? Who wants to work hard or accomplish anything right.. Just laziness, if you want to accomplish something, do it. If you want to pvp, skill up, buy gear, do something to make it happen. Having everyone brought down to the same level completely defeats the purpose of a game with no skill cap.

If you want to pvp in a game where everyone is the same, go play fortnite and get yelled at by 12 year olds.
 

Crabby

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I think shrapnel should be returned in a manner a little different than killing a mob.

All the ammo/decay within the exchange should be used to calculate a random loot for the person/team that gets the kill. Your ammo/decay + theirs, including vehicle decay if it applies. I think this would be especially helpful in rig where the notion of Pvp has become trying to get the other person to lose ped. It appears to me like the concept about it was if you want the oil to yourself, fight for it. But current petty tactics kind of took that away.

This hasnt been an issue in Toulan rig given the lack of vehicles. People will just give up, you reap the reward, or they will have someone else come after you creating some interesting play. I've been ok with either outcome.

I don't think vehicles should be removed from other rigs though, if there was a return for their destruction. They can also play an interesting part in lootable pvp with a few adjustments. Such not allowing recall to storage within lootable Pvp. Not being able to spawn in a vehicle within lootable, would have to enter with it. If it is destroyed it goes back into inventory, so as not to hide within the vehicle's remains. They may also lead to fun chases in lootable pvp, bring back use for mounted weapons. Vehicles might bring more groups to these zones either teaming up to gather resources with protection, and groups of people hunting them.

The variety of encounters would be awesome, and the quick decision making needed when assessing your targets.

Is the miner's guard capable of killing you before you can reach his corpse?
Does the miner have means of a fast getaway?
How far are they from their vehicles?
What vehicles do you have, if any?
What vehicles do they have, if any?
Who do you take out first?

Some uncommon drops unique to pvp kills should drop. Perhaps used to craft pvp-esque items. A mounted EMP launcher to stop a vehicle in its tracks if you can score the shot? For example, a smaller faster more fragile vehicle catching up to a pitbull to stick it with one. Or the pitbull opting to try and EMP to get them off their trail.

Pvp plays fine like a 3rd person shooter, it would be sad to see the potential go to waste with the only big factor being the difference in damage and hp of the the avatars. There is enough room for vehicles within the zones, and enough room for creative thinking and strategy. And I think these two things can give lower level players a fighting chance.
 

Alina

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Hey Alina,

Could you post the question you asked? Just for full content? Not summarize but your ticket? That answer seems very cut and paste and non-committal.

Also (please) do not quote me in such sort snippets. I feel I explained my position, fairly well. Your picture after shortening what I said to such an extent makes it seem like I habitually exploit. Which I do not. Thank you

Cheers

So i asked them if its running in lootable low life to avoid or when someone finds you use rocket on yourself to avoid getting looted its an exploit or not. I was reporting lots of players but always got copy paste answers so i wanted to see their take on this.
 
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raulpon

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Could not disagree with this more, shall we redistribute wealth while we are at it? Who wants to work hard or accomplish anything right.. Just laziness, if you want to accomplish something, do it. If you want to pvp, skill up, buy gear, do something to make it happen. Having everyone brought down to the same level completely defeats the purpose of a game with no skill cap.

If you want to pvp in a game where everyone is the same, go play fortnite and get yelled at by 12 year olds.

I seen a lot of hard working people who earn pennies compared to me, I'm lazy as one can be, not a good example :) There are tons of people here who for sure work harder than others, but don't have the money to buy best gear for PVP.

PVP has always been about skill, not gear, unless you only ever PVPd in EU. My kids play Fortnite, I don't hear much yelling there, just kids having a laugh and good time.

Mastercard warriors will of course defend their investment, so they can oneshot everything in so called "PVP", but most people still like to PVP on even grounds. Can't even imagine back in the day playing MUDs and someone having triple the stats/gear, because he could buy them...lol, PVP my ass.
 

Lars

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I seen a lot of hard working people who earn pennies compared to me, I'm lazy as one can be, not a good example :) There are tons of people here who for sure work harder than others, but don't have the money to buy best gear for PVP.

PVP has always been about skill, not gear, unless you only ever PVPd in EU. My kids play Fortnite, I don't hear much yelling there, just kids having a laugh and good time.

Mastercard warriors will of course defend their investment, so they can oneshot everything in so called "PVP", but most people still like to PVP on even grounds. Can't even imagine back in the day playing MUDs and someone having triple the stats/gear, because he could buy them...lol, PVP my ass.
Hi Raulpon,

I'm not sure if you are aware, but the "best gear for pvp" is actually limited gear, which you can get quite cheap. You can have a full set of the best pvp gear for a fraction of the cost of a newbie high eff hunting setup.

Best regards,
Lars
 

Raffaele Meiers

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... dot and decide you will risk your 50ped of ores to kill me. You teleport to me and guess what? Thorio helm and 1hp baby! Hope you like my vaporizer rocket!

And there you have the problem, you can either shoot me dead, get nothing but some wasted ammo and a kill in your chat, or you can die to the unlootable miner.

Best regards,
Lars
Is there no loot pool from the toxic shots or do you dont mention it because?
ATM same as loot on mobs which can be good or bad can the return you get, from toxic shot loot pool. But you have two chances to gain something, from the toxic shot pool and from the killed player.

Your reasoning that you are a miner/hunter:
So you have loot on you and have to evaluate the risk of going over to kill the other avatar. So my change would not affect you as you have lootable stuff and can get from the defeatet player loot. OK, only as much as you risk yourselve but if the "miner" kills you he also can only loot as much as he carrys lootable stuff himselfe.

So if you risk big you can win big if you risk nothing you still can get HoF from toxic shot pool.

Maybe MA can make a item you can buy at TT to heal your "miner" with the 1 HP from distance with a Restoration Chip, lets say 100 meters, and nullify the Helmet with the heal over time your pray gets.
 
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Lars

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Is there no loot pool from the toxic shots or do you dont mention it because?
ATM same as loot on mobs which can be good or bad can the return you get, from toxic shot loot pool. But you have two chances to gain something, from the toxic shot pool and from the killed player.

Your reasoning that you are a miner/hunter:
So you have loot on you and have to evaluate the risk of going over to kill the other avatar. So my change would not affect you as you have lootable stuff and can get from the defeatet player loot. OK, only as much as you risk yourselve but if the "miner" kills you he also can only loot as much as he carrys lootable stuff himselfe.

So if you risk big you can win big if you risk nothing you still can get HoF from toxic shot pool.

Maybe MA can make a item you can buy at TT to heal your "miner" with the 1 HP from distance with a Restoration Chip, lets say 100 meters, and nullify the Helmet with the heal over time your pray gets.
There is no loot from toxic shot from people who are exploiting.

I am not attacking your suggestion, I'm just saying your imagination that "PK'ers" run around only looking for miners doesn't reflect the reality at all.

Your change wouldn't make much of a difference for me, as I do in fact carry more loot than the miners 99% of the time. This change would only affect the weaker players who want to explore PVP, and thus I think it would cause more harm than good.

Your last suggestion is also a totally unnecessary liability to fair players to let bad mechanics stay in place and cheaters go on...

Best regards,
Lars
 

Raffaele Meiers

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There is no loot from toxic shot from people who are exploiting.

I am not attacking your suggestion, I'm just saying your imagination that "PK'ers" run around only looking for miners doesn't reflect the reality at all.

Your change wouldn't make much of a difference for me, as I do in fact carry more loot than the miners 99% of the time. This change would only affect the weaker players who want to explore PVP, and thus I think it would cause more harm than good.

Your last suggestion is also a totally unnecessary liability to fair players to let bad mechanics stay in place and cheaters go on...

Best regards,
Lars

Remember it is MA, if you give them a incentive to also gain something from the change they implement they may consider doing it.
Why do you think MA like Nanocubes and the crafting of Explosives with it?

Why would it not change anything to you? If the miner you want to kill carries nothing or less than you you still get the full loot as before - so no change to you - if the other kills you by accident and has no loot or less tahn you on him you also will not loose anything or not everything - so big positive change to you - the only time it would affect you is when you go into PvP without any lootable stuff and kill another avatar you would only get toxic shot loot pool reward.

So on one way you say and write that the change would not affect you as you normally have more lootable stuff on you than the one you go to kill except if you are not telling the truth and you fear that because you do not carry lootable stuff, totally opposite to the reasoning you gave, you will not get any reward except from toxic shot lootpool after the kill.

PS: the noobie whining PK'ers you mention it would affect can still go in wthout carring anything lootable and still have the chance to get a HoF from the toxic shot lootpool and if he is really after thrill he can carry lootable stuff to maximise his experience in PvP.

So even tough you say it would affect you the things you write show that it would not affect you at all and if so only in a positive way, not loosing stuff if the other does not carry lootables himselve for example, except, if you are not writing the truth and are doing it like I thought, chasing other miners and hunters without carriyng anything lootable yourselve. This is the only way it would affect you, OK when you carry 10 ped Lootable stuff and the killed avatar has 2k ped on him you would only loot stuff with the value of 10 ped and not his whole 2k ped of loot.
This also works the other way around as you mentioned that you hunt and mine in PvP area, it would make you loose less if the other is not risking anything or only 10 ped himselve.
 
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Remember it is MA, if you give them a incentive to also gain something from the change they implement they may consider doing it.
Why do you think MA like Nanocubes and the crafting of Explosives with it?

Why would it not change anything to you? If the miner you want to kill carries nothing or less than you you still get the full loot as before - so no change to you - if the other kills you by accident and has no loot or less tahn you on him you also will not loose anything or not everything - so big positive change to you - the only time it would affect you is when you go into PvP without any lootable stuff and kill another avatar you would only get toxic shot loot pool reward.

So on one way you say and write that the change would not affect you as you normally have more lootable stuff on you than the one you go to kill except if you are not telling the truth and you fear that because you do not carry lootable stuff, totally opposite to the reasoning you gave, you will not get any reward except from toxic shot lootpool after the kill.

PS: the noobie whining PK'ers you mention it would affect can still go in wthout carring anything lootable and still have the chance to get a HoF from the toxic shot lootpool and if he is really after thrill he can carry lootable stuff to maximise his experience in PvP.

So even tough you say it would affect you the things you write show that it would not affect you at all and if so only in a positive way, not loosing stuff if the other does not carry lootables himselve for example, except, if you are not writing the truth and are doing it like I thought, chasing other miners and hunters without carriyng anything lootable yourselve. This is the only way it would affect you, OK when you carry 10 ped Lootable stuff and the killed avatar has 2k ped on him you would only loot stuff with the value of 10 ped and not his whole 2k ped of loot.
This also works the other way around as you mentioned that you hunt and mine in PvP area, it would make you loose less if the other is not risking anything or only 10 ped himselve.
Tbh this does seem like an interesting idea, however im sure people will find a way to exploit this more than the low hp bug right now. This will have to be heavily regulated and we all know how MA is when it comes to regulating stuff. Still, kudos for the innovative idea.
 

Theocles

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I seen a lot of hard working people who earn pennies compared to me, I'm lazy as one can be, not a good example :) There are tons of people here who for sure work harder than others, but don't have the money to buy best gear for PVP.

PVP has always been about skill, not gear, unless you only ever PVPd in EU. My kids play Fortnite, I don't hear much yelling there, just kids having a laugh and good time.

Mastercard warriors will of course defend their investment, so they can oneshot everything in so called "PVP", but most people still like to PVP on even grounds. Can't even imagine back in the day playing MUDs and someone having triple the stats/gear, because he could buy them...lol, PVP my ass.
Congrats you make more than hard working people? Buy gear and skill up and try pvp?? Not sure what you are hoping to achieve there.

This game has zero skill cap, so the people who actually invest into skilling for pvp.. what little pvp there is I should say, would be rather silly of us to play at that point if theres zero point to skill. And if you are attempting to insinuate that I am one of these "mastercard warriors" you seem to be so aggravated about, I can inform you that you are wrong.

Also, if you had spent anytime in pvp in the last year, you would realize that skills really mean dog shit in this game in terms of pvp. There is countless exploits to keep your avatar from being lootable, and there is medistims.

And mastercard warriors one shotting people in pvp?? Clearly its been awhile since you fought anyone in game, there are very few weapons in game that can one shot (without a crit} Exterminator or vaporizer, that basically sums up the one shot weapon capabilites in entropia.

PvP in entropia is crap, its probably going to remain crap for who knows how long. Equalizing avatars is the opposite of a good solution, take the agility change for instance. For the avatars who have spent years skilling, have 100 or even 200+ agility, well guess what, that nobody exploiting avatar in pvp4 can still run the exact same speed as you can, and shoot rockets at the ground to keep himself at 1 hp and you have zero chance to catch up to him. This is what "equalizing" avatars does in entropia, it turns dog shit into even smellier dog shit

When hunters with level 100+ looter and more eff gear get better returns than you, are you going to say that everyone should get the same returns as well?
 
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DavinFelth

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I wish I could be a credit card warrior.. but deposits are broken still.
My suggestions : fix deposits, then increase loot returns. Then I'll have more ped to blow on pvp! Simple!
 

Ranavolana

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I think it's safe to say that what the majority want for PvP, is for cheating and exploits to be eradicated foremost.

(First get rid of the f*ckin -50% HP non-lootable thing, there's no valid reason for this, it's just plain stupid and ridiculous) :rolleyes:

..........................................

If you want PvP for fun only, there are Fort Events, which unfortunately are not used enough.
(although I think PvP in any zone is fun.
even lootable is fun, with a nice dose of thrill added to it, EU is "also" a game whatever some says..)

As for the cost in Fort Events, it's even better.
I think a lot of people still don't know about this, but all ammo/decay consumption is reduced by 90% there during Fort Events.
Your weapons will cost you only 10% of the usual cost to use.

And at the end of the event, the winning team gets what was spent on shooting as a reward.

It's a lot of fun for cheap, and even about zero if you're part of the winning team. 🏆


:sniper: :rocket:
I must have been looking in the wrong places, because I have never come across this before. It is great news! Just a pity it was not more widelyy talked about.

But Raffaele Meiers suggestion - awful :( it would put poor Pkers (I mean Miners & Hunters who very rarely hunt & mine people at risk of losing peds.
yet MA making misses non costable - wonderful news, it makes those Pker..I mean Miners & hunters costs lower
 

wizz

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I think people should show their minimum 1000 PvP kills achievement in order to be allowed to suggest ideas in PvP threads... :whistle:
bullshit.
Without prey, no hunters.

Shouldn't the prey be allowed to speak about PVP?

Because I think most PK-ers prefer a fat juicy miner prey over a beefed up hunter who actually shoots back.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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bullshit.
Without prey, no hunters.

Shouldn't the prey be allowed to speak about PVP?

Because I think most PK-ers prefer a fat juicy miner prey over a beefed up hunter who actually shoots back.

It is just a phantasm..
And it only exists in the minds of those who never play lootable PvP. :)

There is no such thing.
I've rarely met a "miner" in lootable zone who wasn't as skilled as me, and especially much better equipped with crazy PvP weapons.
And the few unskilled I met were all cheating whith the providential -50%HP feature, running low HP whith their head protected by a Thori helmet..

And that's exactly what some people here would like, to be able to go and do mining in lootable zones, without having to make the effort to skill-up and equip themselves accordingly.
Some want to have their cake and eat it too..
 

Theocles

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I think people should show their minimum 1000 PvP kills achievement in order to be allowed to suggest ideas in PvP threads... :whistle:

It is just a phantasm..
And it only exists in the minds of those who never play lootable PvP. :)

There is no such thing.
I've rarely met a "miner" in lootable zone who wasn't as skilled as me, and especially much better equipped with crazy PvP weapons.
And the few unskilled I met were all cheating whith the providential -50%HP feature, running low HP whith their head protected by a Thori helmet..

And that's exactly what some people here would like, to be able to go and do mining in lootable zones, without having to make the effort to skill-up and equip themselves accordingly.
Some want to have their cake and eat it too..
Those who cannot fight, use low life exploit or use rockets on themselves. So yes, you are correct :D They want to reap the rewards and markup of lootable pvp zones without having any of the risks or investment to be there.
 

The Abomb

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I think people should show their minimum 1000 PvP kills achievement in order to be allowed to suggest ideas in PvP threads...

Counter argument more people would have this achievement if PvP was actually good.

Haha unfortunately my response got deleted since Cirrus comment got deleted. This thread is better PvP than in game. Carry on.
 

Ranavolana

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Cirrus since I came to this Forum I have never at any time moaned to the moderators requesting any persons post be deleted. I have been tempted but never have.

It looks like that was the moderators own work.

Personally I wish they kept your post up, because they deleted my reply as well.

You really want me to be offended but sorry, I am not. I must have misunderstood you though, because far from being someone who dislikes Pkers and cheers anybody who causes them grief, you seem to not like suggestions that would disadvantage them & love changes that would make things easier for them.

And for what its worth, your post I quoted was very informative; the one about cheap ammo in Fort Events (you know the one where you said PvP in any zone is fun).

So I guess you love PvP but dislike PvPers

Because the point was made that there is nobody really who does PvP. They are just innocent Hunters & Miners mainly who, you know, from time to time kill weaker players for loot. I will refer to them in future as Head Hunters & Corpse Miners - seems only fair.

For what its worth, in this long term game - down the track I intend to join their ranks (I made some reference to this in MY deleted post when I mentioned that I had been practicing in friendlies in PvP. Hey I may well get ythe chance eventually to mine your corpse :)
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Cirrus since I came to this Forum I have never at any time moaned to the moderators requesting any persons post be deleted. I have been tempted but never have.

It looks like that was the moderators own work.

Personally I wish they kept your post up, because they deleted my reply as well.

You really want me to be offended but sorry, I am not. I must have misunderstood you though, because far from being someone who dislikes Pkers and cheers anybody who causes them grief, you seem to not like suggestions that would disadvantage them & love changes that would make things easier for them.

And for what its worth, your post I quoted was very informative; the one about cheap ammo in Fort Events (you know the one where you said PvP in any zone is fun).

So I guess you love PvP but dislike PvPers

Because the point was made that there is nobody really who does PvP. They are just innocent Hunters & Miners mainly who, you know, from time to time kill weaker players for loot. I will refer to them in future as Head Hunters & Corpse Miners - seems only fair.

For what its worth, in this long term game - down the track I intend to join their ranks (I made some reference to this in MY deleted post when I mentioned that I had been practicing in friendlies in PvP. Hey I may well get ythe chance eventually to mine your corpse :)

I don't understand what you're talking about, and probably because yourself don't know what to think about it anymore..
All you've ever done is rag on PvPers, and now you're saying you're going to be one yourself...?
GL.

PvP is a big part of this game, since its creation.
It was even a goal to strive for, a good motive to skill-up and progress, since the toxic zones were supposed to be the most interesting but also the most dangerous zones.


There are PvP events, lootable zones, oil rigs on each planet, Land grabs, there used to be events where you had to shoot MA avatars (RX I think), the Amethera continent is entirely PvP, and all the lands can be set in PvP if the owner wants, space is PvP lootable, etc.. I'm probably forgetting some.

Moreover, it's nothing extraordinary, there are thousands of games where the only goal is to kill your opponents (and this since the video games exist).

In short... If you don't like PvP that's your problem, but for God's sake stop wasting my time in PvP threads, it's ridiculous.

You don't like it, do like everyone else who doesn't care, don't use it and just forget it !

Find yourself another fight that might be more useful if you need one that much..
 

Failivrin

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Isfin Failivrin Meleth
So many pencil warriors... allways more pvp here on the forums then in game, so broken, so boring... hope to to see you all soon in the toxic zones, Im sure we would have so much FUN :sniper:
 

Ranavolana

Old Alpha
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Posts
708
Location
Naval Station Triton
Society
The Society
Avatar Name
Louise Ranavolana Brooks
But, But I am a wannabe PvPer surely I can speak. :(

And I referred to the good ideas mentioned here, and the valuable information made public, even yours - U know, your post was valuable where you passed on to everyone the fact that ammunition costs in Fort Events was greatly reduced!

And yet all you thought you saw was me laughing at you :(
 

omsl

Old
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Posts
69

this is what mindark need to understand - fast paced, accessible, fun pvp BRINGS NEW PLAYERS TO THE GAME

i had at least 50 pms from that video alone, asking how to get involved in the game
 

Mega

Chaotic Good
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Posts
16,338
Location
England
Society
Kaos
Avatar Name
MegaVolt
Deleted - 30 posts have been wiped from this thread.
 
Last edited:

Theocles

Guardian
Joined
Aug 3, 2013
Posts
214
To bad I missed when this game actually had pvp or something entertaining, now its just macros and... macros.
 
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