Long time players in low category Mayhems

Darth Revan

Prowler
Joined
May 10, 2016
Posts
1,132
Location
Canada
Society
Love Craft Academy
Avatar Name
Darth Reven Reborn
Sorry new players, you might as well just give up on events.
Long time players are chipping out to enter your category 1 and win easy PED.
You can't compete with them and their equipment so what's the point?

Do we really blame these players though? I mean sure, there is a moral side to it. These categories were meant for newer players to get their feet wet and slowly work their way up as an incentive. They are pretty much destroying any hope a new player has of competing.

But haven't MA created this issue? Will they ever fix it?
I don't think those players are fully to blame on this one, although it is a bit disheartening to see it happen.

So new players, save your PED until MA come up with a new solution for events.
 

GxB

Guardian
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Posts
212
the amount of peds needed to compete in cat1 is already a lot too high imo. id say you need at least 3k peds on your card which is more than the best packages in most crowdfunded games. just ridiculous. and with all these disconnects for players outside europe you can basically give up anyway. and then there are the prices who just get bought up by cat 7-10 winners so you cant rally buy anything in case you would win a low cat. there should be cat1 price tokens that can only buy low equip stuff and not everyone can buy everything. and with that low amount of m-tokens its impossible to get anything anyway.
 

Svarog

Slayer
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Posts
9,311
After a "long time player" chipped down to 24 lvl (losing a ton in the process) and their health is capped to 120 by the instance, there is no technical difference between them and a "new" 24 lvl player who heavily invested in the gear and bankroll. And mayhems at any level always were the competition of pedcards, nothing new here. Sure you can forbid big rings, pills etc in the low category but how fair that would be towards the actual new players in the supposedly real cash economy?

And if you are for an equality of opportunities, then what should we do with cat10 players who can't afford to play in their category? Should MA sponsor them or force every other cat10 player to hunt punies with a tt pistol?
 

Xen

Mutated
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Posts
10,127
Society
Payn-Inc
Avatar Name
Xendar Xen Xal
the amount of peds needed to compete in cat1 is already a lot too high imo. id say you need at least 3k peds on your card which is more than the best packages in most crowdfunded games. just ridiculous. and with all these disconnects for players outside europe you can basically give up anyway. and then there are the prices who just get bought up by cat 7-10 winners so you cant rally buy anything in case you would win a low cat. there should be cat1 price tokens that can only buy low equip stuff and not everyone can buy everything. and with that low amount of m-tokens its impossible to get anything anyway.
I live in the US with 80-90ms ping and I've had zero disconnects. Haven't heard any complaints from anyone else either. I think it's a problem with you, not EU.

As for the OP, if you are referring to like cat 3 and 4, higher level players use these cats to grind for tokens, it's the practice instances, they didn't chip out.
 

Thorns Rose

Elite
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Posts
2,799
Location
USA
Avatar Name
New York Rose
I live in the US with 80-90ms ping and I've had zero disconnects. Haven't heard any complaints from anyone else either. I think it's a problem with you, not EU.

As for the OP, if you are referring to like cat 3 and 4, higher level players use these cats to grind for tokens, it's the practice instances, they didn't chip out.
He is correct.^^

Also, instead of spending PED in a higher Cat that some are actually competing in ( I am not ) I choose to use less PED and take less decay on a lesser Cat for dailies or challenge level, instead I go into practice instance ones seems best, how else to finish Halloween Creatures codex challenge.

There are however players who do chip down without argument there.


I do see your point but nothing about it is inexpensive 1-10 ;)
 
Last edited:

GxB

Guardian
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Posts
212
I live in the US with 80-90ms ping and I've had zero disconnects. Haven't heard any complaints from anyone else either. I think it's a problem with you, not EU.

As for the OP, if you are referring to like cat 3 and 4, higher level players use these cats to grind for tokens, it's the practice instances, they didn't chip out.
ive heard from several players who have the same problem as me and i have zero disconnects in any other game. my ping is usually at 150ish which most likely causes problems with MAs synchronicity netcode. i already have 100k fiber up n down so its definitely not me.

other people with similar ping have the same problem. japan is just too far away from the server and with MAs subpar coding abilities this wont get any better. ask divinity, he knows it too.
 

Xen

Mutated
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Posts
10,127
Society
Payn-Inc
Avatar Name
Xendar Xen Xal
ive heard from several players who have the same problem as me and i have zero disconnects in any other game. my ping is usually at 150ish which most likely causes problems with MAs synchronicity netcode. i already have 100k fiber up n down so its definitely not me.

other people with similar ping have the same problem. japan is just too far away from the server and with MAs subpar coding abilities this wont get any better. ask divinity, he knows it too.
It's not the throughput that matters. Perhaps it is the routing from that part of the world.
 

Svarog

Slayer
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Posts
9,311
i already have 100k fiber up n down so its definitely not me.
It's not your ISP, it's all the intermediary servers between your ISP and MA's servers. I know people who play on < 300kbit DSL and have zero problems both with ping and disconnects. In fact, you should limit your connection in the client loader to 1mbit or lower, it should help with disconnects and the game doesn't use more than 1-3 Mb of traffic a hour anyway.
 

GxB

Guardian
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Posts
212
It's not your ISP, it's all the intermediary servers between your ISP and MA's servers. I know people who play on < 300kbit DSL and have zero problems both with ping and disconnects. In fact, you should limit your connection in the client loader to 1mbit or lower, it should help with disconnects and the game doesn't use more than 1-3 Mb of traffic a hour anyway.
i did that already. doesnt help though. its nothing i can change though and as i said, connecting to blizzards wow europe servers is no problem. no disconnects
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,290
Location
Billy Bar
Society
the Ministry
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
One solution may be to create even more categories... for each category that exists break it up by avatar creation date... so like one category for each 3-5 year increments in avatar birth date... This also might allow for more splitting up of the winnings so there could be more more winners, even if winnings were lower in value, etc.

Lots of other alternatives too..

Maybe put nontradeable keys to mayhem in loot and release 1x amount a month randomly spread out in any mob's loot with only one or two max per day being looted. Don't have a key you cannot get in...

Maybe do something else... lots of options out there potentially.
 
Last edited:

LavaSparks

Dominant
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Posts
438
Sorry new players, you might as well just give up on events.
Long time players are chipping out to enter your category 1 and win easy PED.
You can't compete with them and their equipment so what's the point?

Do we really blame these players though?

No, I salute players who chip down. They keeps the economy spinning.

The MAIN problem in any category is that one T10 weapon can be used by many players to capture 1st-4th place. Even with CDF guns you stand no chance for top 10. Each UL weapon should only able to register for one single player during any event. Simple as that, fair and square.
 

allarom

Alpha
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Posts
512
Location
Estonia
Avatar Name
Allar allarom Mark
IMO Best solution would be to make top categories so tempting that everyone's goals would be to reach there instead of staying in the safe zone.

For example (just for example, don't take it as 1:1 suggestion) 30 rewarded places in cat10, 10 places with PM token or some extra items as prices.

Higher categories should be rewarding enough to start reaching there
 

Liu

Old Alpha
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Posts
801
Location
Paris, France
Society
Alchemic Dream
Avatar Name
Killashandra Liu Ling
ive heard from several players who have the same problem as me and i have zero disconnects in any other game. my ping is usually at 150ish which most likely causes problems with MAs synchronicity netcode. i already have 100k fiber up n down so its definitely not me.

other people with similar ping have the same problem. japan is just too far away from the server and with MAs subpar coding abilities this wont get any better. ask divinity, he knows it too.
Weird. Been playing in Japan, China, Taiwan, South Korea and Malaysia for years and never had connection problems as long as the speed was fast enough, regardless being wired or wireless.

Well, China with VPN was tough sometimes, but issues were all due to the Great Firewall...you should try to check routers, modem, wires on your side, or in your neighbourhood.
 

LavaSparks

Dominant
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Posts
438
IMO Best solution would be to make top categories so tempting that everyone's goals would be to reach there instead of staying in the safe zone.

For example (just for example, don't take it as 1:1 suggestion) 30 rewarded places in cat10, 10 places with PM token or some extra items as prices.

Higher categories should be rewarding enough to start reaching there
Technically, the best cat is cat 10, because you pay the same price/MU for pills and enhancers in any cat, the prizes are just a lot more juicy the higher you get. Unfortunately, you will also need the most expensive guns ingame to have a chance for the top 10, and it needs an expensive fap and armor, so it's a matter of budget what cat you are in.

If we banned UL weapons from entering Mayhem I for one would try to enter a higher cat, because I'd have a winning chance, but that's not gonna happen.
 

Detritus

Sel-requested Deactivation
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Posts
1,084
Avatar Name
Detritus the Troll
ive heard from several players who have the same problem as me and i have zero disconnects in any other game. my ping is usually at 150ish which most likely causes problems with MAs synchronicity netcode. i already have 100k fiber up n down so its definitely not me.
100k is basically like 2 shotgun 56k modems, it's ridiculously slow, and I'm surprised you can play any MMO. Unless you meant 100mb, which is also very slow but should be enough to run the game without issue.


Run a sniffer or a debugging proxy like Fiddler to see what MA servers you are connecting to. Run a ping with say 1000 requests and look for packet loss - if there is *any* packet loss at all that can indicate a bad route and will definitely cause connection issues. Run several traceroutes to MA servers to see where the latency or any breakage might be occurring.

If you have a bad route between you and their server you can bypass it by connecting to a VPN that is closer to MA's server.
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,290
Location
Billy Bar
Society
the Ministry
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
Another option... your avatar wins any prizes and u become ineligible for the next several mayhem and weapon used is now excluded from being used in there
 

Detritus

Sel-requested Deactivation
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Posts
1,084
Avatar Name
Detritus the Troll
Another option... your avatar wins any prizes and u become ineligible for the next several mayhem and weapon used is now excluded from being used in there

So... punish people for winning? :scratch2:
 

Fforest

Dominant
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Posts
405
Location
Manchester, UK
Society
Project -X-
Avatar Name
Travis Fforest Cutter
......And mayhems at any level always were the competition of pedcards, nothing new here......And if you are for an equality of opportunities, then what should we do with cat10 players who can't afford to play in their category?......
Having naturally drifted into Cat10 after 15 years of playing, this is sort of where I get stuck. Peds are a limiting factor for a lot of us and competing in our natural category is all but impossible.

I have had a go at the last two events and, at the time of completing, managed a glorious last place in the rankings. This year in particular, I tried with the biggest dps (L) gun / (L) amp combo I can handle, thorio helmet, rings and smacked off my head on 15mg pills. Still nowhere near competitive with the exotic high tier UL weaponry out there and the top end accessories. All was not lost as I got a reasonable collection of boxes / tokens, but that probably isn't the point of the event.
To be honest, I don't have an answer. People who are lucky enough to run top gear should be entitled to use it all.

Going forward, I think I will have to resign myself to box collecting in the lower practice levels. Throwing peds into cat 10 is a mugs game these days.

Ff
 

Ino

Provider
Joined
May 9, 2019
Posts
101
Avatar Name
Karina Yassmine Mistyk
It isn't all about gear but a luck factor involved also. Those 5k can make a hell of a difference. I run a ewe 41 adj tier 6 with 25B amp and 15mg pills+ rings at 120 dps in cat 3, I go through 350 mobs per hour yet I got 8th place last Mayhem and this one I'm not finished yet but I don't think I'll make it to top 10. Having the gear doesn't guarantee good placement.
 

LavaSparks

Dominant
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Posts
438
It isn't all about gear but a luck factor involved also. Those 5k can make a hell of a difference. I run a ewe 41 adj tier 6 with 25B amp and 15mg pills+ rings at 120 dps in cat 3, I go through 350 mobs per hour yet I got 8th place last Mayhem and this one I'm not finished yet but I don't think I'll make it to top 10. Having the gear doesn't guarantee good placement.
T6 ep41 is far from top gear in cat3. R150 assassin t10 is. Ep41 is also very affordable. Problem starts in cat5 and up where imk2 t10 and similar gear starts to cost an arm and a leg. You also need 20k ped scopes, 30k rings and at least a 4k fap to get by.
 

Hego Damask

Alpha
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Posts
664
Society
Yes
Avatar Name
Hego Damask II
They are pretty much destroying any hope a new player has of competing.
If we cant afford it at the cheapest / lowest category, than we really shouldnt have hope for the higher one's.
I'm a new player, i dont see problem with it, i beat them, or I will loose, just like later in the higher categories.
 

Naomi

Elite
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Posts
3,340
Location
Calypso
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Naomi
I refuse to chip out just for participating in a lower category.
Because of my high skills I can only participate in cat10... for which I have absolutely no gear/budget whatsoever...

As do many others respectively where they are at in the game.


My guess is that MA is currently happy with the current system, it must be providing revenue. There is a saying, 'never change a winning team'. Change is often a risk, and I think that is why MA does not improve the current system, even though MA has recently made a LOT of improvements in EU.

My proposition still stands. It solves most problems. Way more people will participate! In short:

- keep the current categories
- remove the top10 winners for each categories
- make a new 'winners list'
*1 big list, if there is 2400 ppl who finish their hours, there is a top2400. It is way more awesome to be nr 1 in a top2400 then in a top10.
* every participant who finishes x hours, gets listed
* every participants' final points get multiplied by a fixed number, for instance 2, and by his category nr (10625 points, cat9 = 10625 * 9 * 2 = 191 250 points)
* it is possible, but unlikely that participants of lower categories will pass those in higher categories
* put in a TON of random prizes, to be given to the listed ones, randomly
* divide the mayhem tokens proportionally to the points (simple excell math)
* make the mayhem tokens tradable

This solves the following problems:
- people who fall out of the top 10 can now participate for fun, and still get a prize
- today when you think you'll be 9th or 10th, which could still pay for your effort, but you get 11th and have NOTHIN
- today people say, wohoo, I'm first.... in cat 3 :( Isn't it better to see you are 300th out of 2400, and gear up to get to 290 place in the next event? Work your way UP in eu, rather then DOWN.
- today it is better to get top3 in a lower category, then 5-10th in a higher category, this is not good.
- when you give your best, it doesn't hurt you financially if you get 23rd instead of 22th in the totallist, which looks a lot more interesting!
- when people can actually sell their tokens, it will attract WAY more hunters for the markup

just my2pec, been saying this for years btw.
 

Detritus

Sel-requested Deactivation
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Posts
1,084
Avatar Name
Detritus the Troll
I like Naomi's idea, but I'm curious why MA doesn't make Mayhem work like Gold Rush, where you can just choose which cat you want to participate in without having to chip out? (Not sure if GR still works this way, I haven't done it in a couple years)
 

Oleg

Mutated
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Posts
19,033
Location
Leeds, UK
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Oleg Oleg McMullery
Mayhem was much better when it was a competition for the elite, but with (effectively random, but you had to compete) prizes for lower placed people (25th, 50th, 75th. 100th etc) and a possibility to find good items in the loot, so that anyone had a chance of something, but only the best would get the top prizes.
 

Liu

Old Alpha
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Posts
801
Location
Paris, France
Society
Alchemic Dream
Avatar Name
Killashandra Liu Ling
Well, I kind of disagree with you Naomi, just a whole ranking for all participants and such would just ruin the whole thing.

99% of players can't compete with the top 20-50 players that compete in cat 10. They should have their own "précarré" to play in.

But I agree more prizes should be awarded, pills, clothes, flowers, whatever, but something that will remember you how well you performed in that competition.

Just like before with the WOF.
 

becausewhynot

Banned
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Posts
51
It isn't all about gear but a luck factor involved also. Those 5k can make a hell of a difference. I run a ewe 41 adj tier 6 with 25B amp and 15mg pills+ rings at 120 dps in cat 3, I go through 350 mobs per hour yet I got 8th place last Mayhem and this one I'm not finished yet but I don't think I'll make it to top 10. Having the gear doesn't guarantee good placement.
120 DPS in cat3 would only get you into top3 with a lot of luck involved. I did some math over past years and went with random gun I owned, multiplied it with enhancers, rings, pills etc and top3 was not out of reach, even without 5k loots.

As I said, in P2W, you can't really complain. If you want to win, invest. Taking your VW Polo to Hungaroring and expecting getting top3 times vs F1-s is a dream, that can come true, when luck is involved and others crash, run out fuel, drive without breaks etc :)

PS! You do realize that back in the day when I was hunting my irons were done by G15 keyboard with macros to autouse,change target,use autoloot pill any x time, use skillpill if had any x time etc. I was watching full seasons of tv series on second screen while my "bot" killed thousands of mobs. With good clean FOV, you can "bot" through some mayhems and win with best gear. Hell, without any hiccups, you could probably go to sleep, come back and have best time. Do you think Girts, Messi and other big hunters physically click every mob and their gun to shoot? ;) No, they "bot" through it for hours, days, weeks, years. That is why we get semi regular complains about big hunters KSing, tagging wrong mobs etc, since basic targeting macros can't make a difference between your and someone elses mob.
 
Last edited:

messi91

Elite
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Posts
2,991
Location
Medusa Bazaar floor2, shop3
Society
House of Gamers
Avatar Name
Gaina "Messi91" Cristi
Do you think Girts, Messi and other big hunters physically click every mob and their gun to shoot? ;) No, they "bot" through it for hours, days, weeks, years. That is why we get semi regular complains about big hunters KSing, tagging wrong mobs etc, since basic targeting macros can't make a difference between your and someone elses mob.
Why do you leave this just as a question.Just test it and find the truth.
Gather 10 people and rotate whispers to any suspected avatar in this game.DO even a math question demanding for a human answer and you will find the truth.Once you obtain the answer or not you can come post your stupid shit.
I am open for any test any player in this game is willing to develop.
Bring it on.
 

GxB

Guardian
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Posts
212
Why do you leave this just as a question.Just test it and find the truth.
Gather 10 people and rotate whispers to any suspected avatar in this game.DO even a math question demanding for a human answer and you will find the truth.Once you obtain the answer or not you can come post your stupid shit.
I am open for any test any player in this game is willing to develop.
Bring it on.
or let you show an identity card, so that only one person plays one account, like it is intended to ;)
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,290
Location
Billy Bar
Society
the Ministry
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
remove all shrapnel from the instances and replace it ALL with other stuff that's more interesting... since it is a holiday them perhaps stuff you'd normally get when you open the darn boxes...

hell, remove the whole damn holiday box thing...it's such a money grab selling the keys on webshop anyways.
 
Top