Loot 2.0 : Recap

My only problem is with people making TT profit from just playing the game (example hunting for 100%+ return rates); those people make their profit from other players ...

Well, there is the question of how people are managing to get tt profit. Some could now be using the latest (L) weaps and (L) amps, so will be paying a markup to crafters if they buy these.
If MA are making a rake off the crafters, then overall MA are probably still raking, but via combined actions, which makes the pure tt issue a bit less pure...

Any chance of organising a standard test for, say, 100 daikiba youngs or so, with people of different skill levels? I'd love to know if people can really be hunting mobs which are too low for them now, but we will need some kind of stable test conditions...
 
"Wrong" was intended to mean that crafting and mining would still exist even without money as it exist in other games with different gaming model.

Gamblers have problem also in those others games to "keep score" so they adapt and do it on skills, materials and other in game things.

Btw who is butt-head Danny boy?

Now, now Danny boy you said nothing about mining or crafting you just said wrong. If you don't want to be a butt-head you must say what you mean because most to all of the time people will misunderstand what you are say. But I did say I agree with a lot of want you said doesn't that count for anything ?
 
Now, now Danny boy you said nothing about mining or crafting you just said wrong. If you don't want to be a butt-head you must say what you mean because most to all of the time people will misunderstand what you are say. But I did say I agree with a lot of want you said doesn't that count for anything ?

Yes it mean:
- that you didn't read at all my post - text following under word "Wrong"
- maybe you have complex of superiority because you agree with a lot of what i said even if most of time people will misunderstand what I'm saying.

Just a PS I don't think there would be any crafting, or mining at all for that matter, without money and anyone who starts this game and thinks they will profit is living in fantasy land.


......................................
If you want better gear you can try to loot with very low chance or you can grind very long time to gather all mats and try to craft it witch ofc can fail and you loose part of mats and you are back on grinding.
Goal in such doing is not to withdrawal money but to have full geared ton and to be able to participate on siege or land grab how is called here,
Crafting there do not exist as here for market and profit. Mining and crafting is much harder but is thing that have to be done if you want better gear. In many games there is entire clan working, grinding, gathering mats just to help single clan member.
..........................................

You are confusing public forum with private interview with your boyfriend butt-head Danny boy.
I assure you that I don't want to call you CozPooDan even by mistake as behaviour to call people with names is your only. It explain a lot about you.
Take care and talk to your love at home or in private.
 
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Yes it mean:
- that you didn't read at all my post - text following under word "Wrong"
- maybe you have complex of superiority because you agree with a lot of what i said even if most of time people will misunderstand what I'm saying.







You are confusing public forum with private interview with your boyfriend butt-head Danny boy.
I assure you that I don't want to call you CozPooDan even by mistake as behaviour to call people with names is your only. It explain a lot about you.
Take care and talk to your love at home or in private.

I did read that part but here again I feel that you were talking and an individual crafting for his own purpose not to make profit just for what he needed.

I must apologize I did now know you were not from the USA as your English is better than mine but I did notice you are from Slovenia and I am not sure what butt-head means there but for me and my friends butt-head is not a very derogatory name it is used more of a joke and poo-poo head is about the same so CozPooDan would not have offended me at all. So I do apologize and truly did not mean to offend you at all. Funny when I did have someone at home those are a couple of names we used all the time:). And by the way it was not a boy friend, now here that would be taken as a offensive or derogatory and I am sure you said for that reason but it is only words.
 
(40-110-105-70-) 90%

I mean, still nothing notably different from the previous months... except waiting for that 200% outlier to compensate.
 
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Now cycled about 6k, currently at 86% TT return; about 10% lower for me. I've been carefully trying to hunt mobs which are giving multipliers and dropping items for me, as I would assume that this is a hint that I'm matching up the mob correctly.

I definitely can't sustain gameplay at 86%, so I'm hoping that MA will patch this soon, or at least communicate with us and address our concerns. I find it a bit off-putting how silent they've been through this major change when it's fairly clear that a large number of their player base has serious questions/concerns.
 
Dont worry guyz
They removed ammo from the loot
they forgot to put something to replace it :D ur just missing the ammo xD
 
Dont worry guyz
They removed ammo from the loot
they forgot to put something to replace it :D ur just missing the ammo xD

While i know you were making a joke, there is actually loot missing arkadia specific loot. Hides and animal parts are very rare or not dropping at all. Maybe that is a good thing, maybe it isnt.
 
Why millions of players play any other MMOs where there is no withdraw option?

I really think that the reason why someone should play a game is that it is fun because it provides them with entertainment value, not for making money. Now if the game is not fun to be played without the added incentive of potential profits that's sure a problem that has to be addressed, but the problem is not the one of not getting profits since tons of others MMOs do very well without offering this kind of added incentive.

TL; DR: People should play the game because it is fun, not because they are shown a carrot.

Millions of players do make money in games though. Always have and always will. I play games with the carrot on a stick. No carrot then i find a game with one. Gaming since 2000 has always been about big money and the opportunity to make money from gaming in MMO's. Also it's been about collecting the best Uber items and to chase those shiny toys. Which is where money comes in.

If you think people play other games that aren't RCE for entertainment and not the option to sell items. You are mistaken. Items will always be found and sold in every game. Which is why I never like this game trying to claim to be thee RCE game. When other games you can make money with no risk. So this game being an RCE isn't a draw to get those players who been making money in other games for years. I mentioned this before in the why isn't this game more popular thread. Why would someone who has no risk and makes money in other games come to this one to try and make money with risk? So end of the day it is about Enjoyment and Gameplay because you can make money in every game.

Well I digress at least they are working on what is important now which is Gameplay. Gameplay always brings more players to the game and this loot 2.0 change should do that. I managed to convince my gamer friend who I plays other games with to try Entropia again with the changes.

For me I love grinding games where I can spend a lot of time investing into my Avatar but at the end of the day I am trying to collect the best items, play for free and or profit. I will do that in every game that I am playing and have been for a long time. That is why I play them. :D

PS- Don't tell people why they should play games. There are many different groups and reasons why someone plays a game. If I couldn't make money here I wouldn't be here and I would be off fighting The Good Fight in one of the other games that I also love. For me though my carrot is being Uber one day and Money. Don't try to take away any of my carrots because they are delicious.
 
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Millions of players do make money in games though. Always have and always will. I play games with the carrot on a stick. No carrot then i find a game with one. Gaming since 2000 has always been about big money and the opportunity to make money from gaming in MMO's. Also it's been about collecting the best Uber items and to chase those shiny toys. Which is where money comes in.

If you think people play other games that aren't RCE for entertainment and not the option to sell items. You are mistaken. Items will always be found and sold in every game. Which is why I never like this game trying to claim to be thee RCE game. When other games you can make money with no risk. So this game being an RCE isn't a draw to get those players who been making money in other games for years. I mentioned this before in the why isn't this game more popular thread. Why would someone who has no risk and makes money in other games come to this one to try and make money with risk? So end of the day it is about Enjoyment and Gameplay because you can make money in every game.

Well I digress at least they are working on what is important now which is Gameplay. Gameplay always brings more players to the game and this loot 2.0 change should do that. I managed to convince my gamer friend who I plays other games with to try Entropia again with the changes.

For me I love grinding games where I can spend a lot of time investing into my Avatar but at the end of the day I am trying to collect the best items, play for free and or profit. I will do that in every game that I am playing and have been for a long time. That is why I play them. :D

PS- Don't tell people why they should play games. There are many different groups and reasons why someone plays a game. If I couldn't make money here I wouldn't be here and I would be off fighting The Good Fight in one of the other games that I also love. For me though my carrot is being Uber one day and Money. Don't try to take away any of my carrots because they are delicious.

In case you forgot... you already answered to that post of mine once here:

Sellin loot has always been an added incentive for a game. Gaming is big money and a big draw to players who are older im 39. Diablo 2 was the game that started the virtual item sale on a massive scale. I have made more in Diablo and WoW then here.

I don't invest much time in games that i can't make money in or play for free. Just how myself and all my gamer friends are.



And I even answered you back to that one here (and still reiterating what I said there):

The difference is that in all those scenarios you are getting said money consensually, from other people, as in they willingly pay for some tangible (well, how tangible a virtual item can be) goods or services; they knew exactly what they were getting and how much they were paying for that item or service. And I never said that this would be wrong in here, quite the opposite - I think you should be able to make a profit by selling your loot to other people for markup, by offering a service (anything starting with healing and ending with trading), by investing in a land area or something.

My only problem is with people making TT profit from just playing the game (example hunting for 100%+ return rates); those people make their profit from other players, but those other players are not consciously, willingly pay their profits, but they just have their money taken away and "redistributed", somehow similar to how taxes function in real life.



So, to resume:

- I am OK with paying MA's rake, because I understand they need money for servers and development and I don't have a problem if they end up making net profits this way because they are providing me an entertainment option that I enjoy;

- I am OK with paying you (or anyone else) for an item or a service you're providing to me and I don't have a problem if you end up making net profits this way because you are providing me a service that I want;

- I am NOT OK with subsidizing other people's profits (see Messi for example) by having lower returns myself and if MA would try to change this to no longer be possible I would definitely cheer for them doing so (and I'm sure many other non-elite players would agree with that; problem is that our kind of players doesn't really stay too much on forums)



Or to resume even further:

I'm OK to pay for my entertainment, but I'm not OK to also pay for your entertainment (eventually not only your in-game entertainment but also IRL entertainment once you get to spend the money you withdraw) *generic you, not you especially*
 
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PS- Don't tell people why they should play games. There are many different groups and reasons why someone plays a game. If I couldn't make money here I wouldn't be here and I would be off fighting The Good Fight in one of the other games that I also love. For me though my carrot is being Uber one day and Money. Don't try to take away any of my carrots because they are delicious.

And about that...

10+ M people still play Blizzard's MMO. The shiniest items are bound and not even tradeable. Gold selling is clearly disallowed and gold seller (and buyers) are constantly banned. So no, not all players or even most players, play for money; sure, maybe the hardcore players do, but definitely not the majority of average, casual players that make the backbone of any MMO.

Also, not that I want to be rude or anything, but if you say that you are here to specifically make a profit (to not say a job, as other people said) out of the game and instead of bringing money into the economy and contributing to server costs and company profits, you want to take money out of said economy (money that have to be paid by other players) in what way you leaving would make the game world/economy worse? All I can see is that the remaining players would lose less because they wouldn't have to subsidiaries you're winning anymore (on top of paying for game expenses and MA profits).

Sure, more players are good for the game, but only as long as each of those players brings its contribution towards covering the server mainenance, development costs and company profits. When someone instead of contributing is taking out money, how they are helping the economy, the game, the company?

Let's say (random number) that the maintenance, development and MA profit sums up to $100,000 per month (again, random number). Now every player that is a net depositor, contributes to this, in a larger or smaller percent (some may contribute with thousands, while others may contribute with only a few bucks). When you neither deposit or withdraw, you're actually a little burden, since you consume server resources that you're not paying for, but let's say that this is OK, since servers would function anyway (it become a problem only if non-contributing players number would be really high). But when you want to make profit and be a net withdrawer, getting, dunno let's say $100 per month, not only that you're not helping with the cost, but the rest of us have to also pay your $100, on top of MA's $100,000, so our cumulative total cost instead of going down because we have one extra player, goes up to $100,100. How does that help?
 
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There always have been both Poker players and Mau Mau players and they continue to coexist. The games may be a lot more sophisticated now, but humans are not.
 
And about that...

10+ M people still play Blizzard's MMO. The shiniest items are bound and not even tradeable. Gold selling is clearly disallowed and gold seller (and buyers) are constantly banned. So no, not all players or even most players, play for money; sure, maybe the hardcore players do, but definitely not the majority of average, casual players that make the backbone of any MMO.

For me since 2000 the main games I played were

Diablo 2 and 3
WoW
Entropia

The reason I played these games is the same. I want to be Uber skilled and Profit. There is no difference between them. It's just how I look at a game. I want to grind lvls or skills, get amazing gear and make money. Is that wrong? Of course not! It's the foundation of gaming to me. Every game is you put in work you should get to a point where now you can self sustain yourself and you don't spend money in it anymore. That is my goal in every game. That is how I play. Anything wrong with that? Of course not. It what drives me. My enjoyment is chasing that carrot. :yay:

Guess I am hardcore then :scratch2:
 
Let's say (random number) that the maintenance, development and MA profit sums up to $100,000 per month (again, random number). Now every player that is a net depositor, contributes to this, in a larger or smaller percent (some may contribute with thousands, while others may contribute with only a few bucks). When you neither deposit or withdraw, you're actually a little burden, since you consume server resources that you're not paying for, but let's say that this is OK, since servers would function anyway (it become a problem only if non-contributing players number would be really high). But when you want to make profit and be a net withdrawer, getting, dunno let's say $100 per month, not only that you're not helping with the cost, but the rest of us have to also pay your $100, on top of MA's $100,000, so our cumulative total cost instead of going down because we have one extra player, goes up to $100,100. How does that help?

How is it my job to help with the cost? If MA can't figure out how to make money without deposits then they need a better financial plan. It's my Job to achieve my goals which is getting skills and profiting. Year one I achieved my goals. So going to keep doing what I can.

I will support the game in other ways by saying it's a wonderful game and promoting it. I will tell stories of my experience and hopefully players will have the fun I have in Entropia. I love this game because it's dynamic and I love how it's open ended and that you can skill forever!! The cost though for each person is different. I don't expect to pay anything if i been here for awhile. I should be self sustaining. That is a deciding factor for me. Maybe it's too honest of an answer. If i had to pay for WoW i wouldn't play it. If i have to keep paying for Entropia then guess what? Wouldn't play it. Maybe that is extreme but it's a game to me and I play to win. ;)
 
In all games you always aim for the win. Not everybody gets to be the winner, in any games, but you still aim for that.
In EU "to win" = make profit. It has always been that way and it won't change in a foreseeable future. I don't make profit in the long run. Most I have been able to achieve is to play for free for a certain period of time, and then I'll "fall through" again.
That doesn't mean I've given up. Hell no, definitely not! :cool:
 
I will support the game in other ways by saying it's a wonderful game and promoting it. I will tell stories of my experience and hopefully players will have the fun I have in Entropia. I love this game because it's dynamic and I love how it's open ended and that you can skill forever!! The cost though for each person is different. I don't expect to pay anything if i been here for awhile. I should be self sustaining. That is a deciding factor for me. Maybe it's too honest of an answer. If i had to pay for WoW i wouldn't play it. If i have to keep paying for Entropia then guess what? Wouldn't play it. Maybe that is extreme but it's a game to me and I play to win. ;)

Not saying is necessarily wrong, but please let me make sure that I understand this correctly.

1) You understand that someone has to pay for all expenses (servers, development, staff salaries, company profits etc).

2) You don't want to pay for said things, not even a bit; even more, you want to also get some money home with you.

Since someone has to pay for all these things and you don't want to do that, does that means that you expect someone else to pay for you?

How is that different than going to the local bar, having some beers and expect not only to not pay for them, but someone to pay you for the fact that you went there?

I don't find this normal. Now maybe I'm crazy or plain dumb but I don't find it normal. So please, does anyone here can confirm me that I'm wrong and say that they would agree to pay our friend's Abomb bill and on top of that also give him some money to take home because he made us the honor to play with us or would you rather invite him to find some other fools, somewhere else willing to pay for his entertainment?
 
In all games you always aim for the win. Not everybody gets to be the winner, in any games, but you still aim for that.
In EU "to win" = make profit. It has always been that way and it won't change in a foreseeable future. I don't make profit in the long run, the most I have been able to achieve is to play for free for some period of time, and then I'll "fall through" again.
That doesn't mean I've given up. Definitely not! :cool:

Exactly and this is what drives us. :wtg:
 
Exactly and this is what drives us. :wtg:

Again, my question, yeah everyone wants to make a profit... sure, why not, I want it too if it's free for all... now please just tell me who you expect to pay for all this?
 
Not saying is necessarily wrong, but please let me make sure that I understand this correctly.

1) You understand that someone has to pay for all expenses (servers, development, staff salaries, company profits etc).

2) You don't want to pay for said things, not even a bit; even more, you want to also get some money home with you.

Since someone has to pay for all these things and you don't want to do that, does that means that you expect someone else to pay for you?

Think you are looking at it the wrong way but you pretty much answered it yourself

How is that different than going to the local bar, having some beers and expect not only to not pay for them, but someone to pay you for the fact that you went there?

I don't find this normal. Now maybe I'm crazy or plain dumb but I don't find it normal. So please, does anyone here can confirm me that I'm wrong and say that they would agree to pay our friend's Abomb bill and on top of that also give him some money to take home because he made us the honor to play with us or would you rather invite him to find some other fools, somewhere else willing to pay for his entertainment?

It's no relation to going to a bar. If I am having a drink I am paying for a service. That is why it's called the service industry. Entropia is not a service its a GAME! The service industry has nothing to do with the Gaming industry. If I sit down to play a game I play to win and if it's a good game it will be fun and someone will pay for it just not me. That called winning.

If i lose the game then I pay for it but someone else wins. It's pretty clear. That is why it's a game. There is always winners and losers. I just have a standard for playing a game I expect to win. I would think everyone has this standard but seems like I am mistaken. I am not here to trade money for entertainment. If i wanted to do that I would go see a movie. That is why we have competitive gaming. If I put money into this game I expect to get it all back + more. ;) This is completely normal.
 
I just have a standard for playing a game I expect to win. I would think everyone has this standard but seems like I am mistaken. I am not here to trade money for entertainment. [...] If I put money into this game I expect to get it all back + more. ;)

Thank you, that answers my question.

I thought is that, but somehow I couldn't believe it.

So thanks for clarifying it.
 
Thank you, that answers my question.

I thought is that, but somehow I couldn't believe it.

So thanks for clarifying it.

Really? This was hard to believe? This is why all my friends play maybe we are just a different breed or maybe a tad bit competitive. :lolup:
 
Millions of players do make money in games though. Always have and always will. I play games with the carrot on a stick. No carrot then i find a game with one. Gaming since 2000 has always been about big money and the opportunity to make money from gaming in MMO's. Also it's been about collecting the best Uber items and to chase those shiny toys. Which is where money comes in.

If you think people play other games that aren't RCE for entertainment and not the option to sell items. You are mistaken. Items will always be found and sold in every game. Which is why I never like this game trying to claim to be thee RCE game. When other games you can make money with no risk. So this game being an RCE isn't a draw to get those players who been making money in other games for years. I mentioned this before in the why isn't this game more popular thread. Why would someone who has no risk and makes money in other games come to this one to try and make money with risk? So end of the day it is about Enjoyment and Gameplay because you can make money in every game.

Well I digress at least they are working on what is important now which is Gameplay. Gameplay always brings more players to the game and this loot 2.0 change should do that. I managed to convince my gamer friend who I plays other games with to try Entropia again with the changes.

For me I love grinding games where I can spend a lot of time investing into my Avatar but at the end of the day I am trying to collect the best items, play for free and or profit. I will do that in every game that I am playing and have been for a long time. That is why I play them. :D

PS- Don't tell people why they should play games. There are many different groups and reasons why someone plays a game. If I couldn't make money here I wouldn't be here and I would be off fighting The Good Fight in one of the other games that I also love. For me though my carrot is being Uber one day and Money. Don't try to take away any of my carrots because they are delicious.

Really? This was hard to believe? This is why all my friends play maybe we are just a different breed or maybe a tad bit competitive. :lolup:

There is nothing wrong with profiting or trying to profit from a game as there are other hobbies which work the same way. If you get good enough in a hobby there is a likelihood you can/will make money pursuing it. However from the developer ( in this case MA) point of view, you are not the primary target audience. They need people who don't mind spending a few dollars in return for there entertainment. Alternatively they can make the carrot tough enough to get that you stay only long enough to realise that it was out of your hands to begin with. Your making money is a by product of the system and all power to you if u can do so, but that does not make you the guy on the pedestal who's welfare should be a priority in the developers mind.

So in short, it is your agenda to beat the system. The system's agenda should be to not make it too easy for you.
 
There is nothing wrong with profiting or trying to profit from a game as there are other hobbies which work the same way. If you get good enough in a hobby there is a likelihood you can/will make money pursuing it. However from the developer ( in this case MA) point of view, you are not the primary target audience. They need people who don't mind spending a few dollars in return for there entertainment. Alternatively they can make the carrot tough enough to get that you stay only long enough to realise that it was out of your hands to begin with. Your making money is a by product of the system and all power to you if u can do so, but that does not make you the guy on the pedestal who's welfare should be a priority in the developers mind.

So in short, it is your agenda to beat the system. The system's agenda should be to not make it too easy for you.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Divinity again.
 
Divinity I do think that you make money but isn't it more from trading and co-ops than play. Which I find no fault in for those that have the knowledge to do so :).
 
I always thought it was very clear the reason why this game is so attractive. To me it has always been and always will be because IT'S OKAY TO MAKE MONEY in Entropia.

Other MMOs like WoW or EVE Online, you play for years and years but at the end of it, you don't have anything, you can't Chip out, you are not allowed to sell your virtual belongings or Avatar, you can't withdraw. (I know a lot of you will tell me that it's possible and that lots of people do it but it's against the rules, though we are neginning to see some means of transfer, but not to real cash, only virtual currencies tradeable for virtual entertainment)

If I'm going to play an MMO for years and years, at the end of it I want to have something to show for it. I've invested a lot in Entropia and I want to know I'm ALLOWED to sell it later and get the real value of all my virtual assets converted back to real cash.
 
Just a little more icing on the cake. My favorite mob was the kerbbie so I watched it on ET quite often to see how the loot was. Well I just looked and the total globals for the past 24 hours is 310. I have never seen it that low that I can remember and have over 2400 globals on kerbbies in the past so I have been watching them for a while. I really don't like this and I hope its more just me than all because this will be the end of this game and I really like it and if I didn't I would not say a word I would just quit.
 
Just a little more icing on the cake. My favorite mob was the kerbbie so I watched it on ET quite often to see how the loot was. Well I just looked and the total globals for the past 24 hours is 310. I have never seen it that low that I can remember and have over 2400 globals on kerbbies in the past so I have been watching them for a while. I really don't like this and I hope its more just me than all because this will be the end of this game and I really like it and if I didn't I would not say a word I would just quit.

Loot 2.0 made multis lower but more frequent to make loot more stable short term, as a result lower hp mobs will global less frequent
 
Just a little more icing on the cake. My favorite mob was the kerbbie so I watched it on ET quite often to see how the loot was. Well I just looked and the total globals for the past 24 hours is 310. I have never seen it that low that I can remember and have over 2400 globals on kerbbies in the past so I have been watching them for a while. I really don't like this and I hope its more just me than all because this will be the end of this game and I really like it and if I didn't I would not say a word I would just quit.

global counts mean nothing now, tbqfh. They stabilized the swings and flattened loot and you're going to see globals a lot less over the course of a hunt but that's the cost paid to no longer have no loots.
 
Just a little more icing on the cake. My favorite mob was the kerbbie so I watched it on ET quite often to see how the loot was. Well I just looked and the total globals for the past 24 hours is 310. I have never seen it that low that I can remember and have over 2400 globals on kerbbies in the past so I have been watching them for a while. I really don't like this and I hope its more just me than all because this will be the end of this game and I really like it and if I didn't I would not say a word I would just quit.

Global threshold on Dominants and Alphas went back up to 50 ped a few weeks ago now so the hundred or so globals a day on them between 25-50 are now just minis. The EL numbers mean nothing anymore.
 
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