Suggestion: Loot 3.0 ideas

[Geo]

Using mining amps, crafting on condition or using inefficient gear to go big, when it is bad, will only compound your losses to a point you may not be able to recover from, especially if your bank roll does not allow for you to sustain that level of gameplay.

 

[Alukat123]

Using mining amps, crafting on condition or using inefficient gear to go big, when it is bad, will only compound your losses to a point you may not be able to recover from, especially if your bank roll does not allow for you to sustain that level of gameplay.

Have you even read what i've just written?

Since you appearently didn't, i'll repeat it:

No, the system is unfair because of it's time based and the server limited amount stuff.
The month before i got a new job, i was playing for about 30 minutes a day (at the same specific time), crafted materials worth about 100 PED TT, lost 6-20 PED TT, but that was okay, because at the end of the month, with this method i made about 6k PED profit.... (that's 6k PED profit for 15 hours played).

So, considering there can only drop x within y hours, that's when the game becomes very unfair.
Me and some other people just looted all which could be looted during that window as soon as the window opened, which just made it impossible for a lot of people to even get a chance for that stuff... especially for those who simply can't play when the window opens.

Denying people the chance for certain loot just because they can't play at a specific time is just unfair.

Same applies to tt-returns, can't play at a certain time, tt-return is gonna suck.

That's just terrible game design.

 

[Geo]

I was not responding to your post.

That is an interesting theory.

How do you explain things going off at all hours of the day?

 

[Alukat123]

I was not responding to your post.

That is an interesting theory.

How do you explain things going off at all hours of the day?

Ah ok. Does it? For me it's only good at certain hours. Any playing outside of those hours, regardless how much i play outside of those hours, is gonna end badly. And that game design is just crap...

 

[Arm]

Says who?
You clearly don’t know what you are talking about and are just making assumptions.
I assume you are a grown adult.
Read the EULA legal contract agreement you agree to every time you log in.
Take responsibility for your own choices and know the risk.
Do not spend more money on a game than you are not willing to lose.
Good luck.

Says a computer science expert and a gamer since childhood (over 30 years) who has legal experience and who has paid 20k USD to this game and ...

It seems that you do not know anything about anti-trust law, corporate social responsibility and all the regulator and umbrella-law which do not allow a company enforce whatever they like (it is a society with fundamental laws, which intends to make businesses act reasonably)

And for your information, I have had legally-oriented computer science projects which were relevant to what I say. In that case, it was regarding Microsoft terms and conditions people had accepted but could not be enforced by Microsoft.

 

[Arm]

Using mining amps, crafting on condition or using inefficient gear to go big, when it is bad, will only compound your losses to a point you may not be able to recover from, especially if your bank roll does not allow for you to sustain that level of gameplay.

News: and even when your bank role allows, MA does not allow it in the new system !?! (namely: still now allowed)

 

[Arm]

Based on this and your EL profile, it looks like this is the problem, at least from a mining perspective. If you’re going to use big amps and expect to maintain net profitability, you need to watch your play style, and that gets stricter the more you increase amp size. The math behind amps means it’s much easier to lose a higher percentage of ped (not just raw amount) as amp size increases due to NRFs. This means if someone blows all their ped on high MU amps and keeps mining in areas with low TT returns (even moreso indoors), they shouldn’t act surprised when they lose the this much. Risky behavior means a higher chance of big losses.

Even outdoors on Caly a few weeks ago, I noticed I was getting only 66% TT in a few areas. Normally when you see something like that, you stop mining there and go somewhere else to avoid losing ped. Trying to horse the mining system by continuing to mine in an area like that never ends well on the average.

As others have pointed out, it looks like you have very skewed expectations, especially when mentioning how much ped you put in. Amount cycled is largely irrelevant in this instance when high-risk behavior is involved. Everything I’ve seen written in this thread points to not adapting to fluctuations in the mining system, continuing as if everything was the same, then complaining about losing ped as if it were unexpected.

When MA gave some stats awhile back saying hunters on average got around 97ish percent average TT, your results are actually very much in line with that. Many people misunderstand that to think that means everyone should get around that much if they cycle enough. That is a common misconception of statistics that usually is addressed in any basic stats course. Search for terms like left skewed graphs to get some of the concepts. At a 97% overall average return in the player base, the means some average slightly over 100% TT, while others will be at the other end of the tail under 90%. Someone at even 50% TT is very much part of that upper 90% average. Much of that is randomness, but the more extreme ends of the tails you go, the more play style/experience plays a role in whether someone profits TT-wise or loses a lot.

I was at 100% returns all in all (not in a cycle, all in all !) with same habits (cycling 2k USD). The game seems to have changed behavior (next 9 x 2k = 18k USD cycled, below 10 percent return all in all). Am I the 1 in 100'000 unlucky one? I don't think so. It seems to be some sort of new unfair behavior towards those who play in a relaxed way (new: time-wise from around 2018 or paying-in-wise from after 2k USD!).

Whatever it is, it is not a fair way of treating people and their "invest"ment.

 

[Arm]

We talked about my case but not many people commented on the suggestions (specially no. 1 to no. 3):


Reminding improvement idea 1: MA dashboard (returns details and statistics from different viewpoints) for those who have paid over 1k USD is long overdue, such that it helps them track "investment" (and makes MA more responsible about ROI).

Reminding improvement idea 2: eventually gaming habits should not drop ROI (in fact I mean overall net worth compared to investment) below 90 percent.

Reminding improvement idea 3: there should be fair return all-in-all at some point, those waiting for delayed big hofs should get non-tradable time-constrained items worth similar (you always have sort of 90 percent returns or more, 90 percent or more ROI in small durations of hunting/mining/crafting, but not all can be withdrawn). This affects item values, but makes the game more fair (much more important).

Reminding improvement idea 4: court leading to dividing MA share between true investors namely the players (difference between real service value and player loss must be returned in shares)

Reminding improvement idea 5: Please avoid non-reasonable justifications putting burden of a non-reasonable and over-priced business on Entropians.

 

[Deemer]

And for your information, I have had legally-oriented computer science projects which were relevant to what I say. In that case, it was regarding Microsoft terms and conditions people had accepted but could not be enforced by Microsoft.

A bit off topic, but I think it is needed!!

"§ 1. In case of contradiction of the provisions of two laws, those which provide a higher degree of consumer protection shall be applied."

To be clear:
1. MA rules!
2. State law.
3. Constitution.

 

[Arm]

A bit off topic, but I think it is needed!!

"§ 1. In case of contradiction of the provisions of two laws, those which provide a higher degree of consumer protection shall be applied."

To be clear:
1. MA rules!
2. State law.
3. Constitution.

Thank you, good important point, it is in fact not off topic at all, Loot 3.0 (and I do mean New Mining/Crafting Return as well), need to be more consumer oriented. More fair. The "investment"s need to be saved and nurtured (at least: mostly).

That will attract much more consumers/investors (gamers) in the long run.

 

[Arm]

The unfair return in Entropia seems to really be a matter of court proceedings, you pay over 20K USD to the game, which is an investment in the game, and the game betrays you with bad design, deceiving advertisements/details/ambiguities/announcements and even maybe with discrimination!

Although we all know that wrongdoings without justification are rare, pretexts and justifications are not enough when you pay over 20K USD and when the game has advertised it as "invest"ment.

 

[RickEngland]

Many many years ago in an game far far away, a decision was taken to increase the health regeneration of some mobs, it even apparently got harder to kill the mob if you had more skills than another player. MA sold this as a more challenging and entertaining player experience (funny stuff).

Gone were the days of hunting atrox naked (the most popular mob at the time).

However it came with a loot bug, the atrox didn't pay what it should, but the players just kept on shooting. MA learned players would pay more.

Sadly that was the end of £40 a month full time gameplay hunting atrox 12 hours a day, every day with just a justifier MkII.

Great game then, but I cant ever see MA returning to that situation. Game has gone too far down the rabbit hole, to turn back.

Rick.

 

[RickEngland]

Tell me about it Messi, most of players gradually f***ked off. MA's answer to that, was to double down, adding ever more powerful mobs year after year.

You was probably still sucking your thumb in a pram, to ever experience the game back then, so I'll forgive you.

Not even sure if you was around when you could shoot drones level 1's all day and farm gazz for 140% MU (which was about 60% of the loot) Oh they were the days I loved the game.

So sure I dislike how the game changed too.

 

[RickEngland]

I did actually login the other day and shoot LT's for about 2 hours with some deed income peds. I didnt get a global, it was very boring. Some players were shooting E-stalkers in global chat, I kind of laughed at that, and logged off in the knowledge it cost me absolutely nothing in RL cash. So sure its not so bad.

 

[Mega]

The best posts you will ever read is how 'the 2013 player' knows Entropia better than any 2005 or 2006 player.

And more than that gets deleted on this forum.

 

[Arm]

MA should give high payers (over 1k USD) non-tradable excellent gear to partially/fully make up for their loss in some way, compared to what they paid in (something like 1.5x worth of their loss, in form of non-tradable items. Return in form of Land Area Deeds is also a good idea).

Also, MA must work on fair return.

And yes, there may be challenges to address, but they should truly add "game fairness" to their targets and try hard.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

MA should give high payers (over 1k USD) non-tradable excellent gear to partially/fully make up for their loss in some way, compared to what they paid in (something like 1.5x worth of their loss, in form of non-tradable items. Return in form of Land Area Deeds is also a good idea).

Also, MA must work on fair return.

And yes, there may be challenges to address, but they should truly add "game fairness" to their targets and try hard.

I’m not sure where you are going with this. Returns are better and fairer than ever for the average player and you aren’t just gonna get free stuff just because you exist.

 

[wizz]

The best posts you will ever read is how 'the 2013 player' knows Entropia better than any 2005 or 2006 player.

And more than that gets deleted on this forum.

But, this might even be the case actually.

I very much liked Project Entropia. A game messi and the likes never played.
Then came the sequel, Entropia Universe.
That was a different game, different ambiance, different spirit.

Messi doesn't know this difference, but you can't blame him for that, he was still in diapers back then.

 

[Msturlese]

I read some of the new messages on the thread. differetn opinions but all say "Gaming is costing very much"
it is true. EU is a costly game

the game has a Loot < cost to kill
the more you cycle, the more the more you loose on TT basis (no weapon can loot over cost to kill or MA would bankrupt)

MU is player to player transfer, driven by demand and supply (and floored by TT value)

so basically.... if we hunt naked with 0 MU weapons we expect to get back 98.5ish percent... WITH MAXED SKILL

that 1.5 lesser return go into skills.

THIS in the Only point we can expect an intervention
Soulbound (unsellable) skills that grow at 0 TT cost and make you powerful and rise some fraction the loot
that can be a difference... to higher return in term of TT.

if the playerbase rises we can expect the game to return even 99.5% (so reach 99.9% with shrap conversion)
and probably with higher playerbase we will see all loots falling to 101% for downcutting

that is the probable path in loot 3.0... less globals, more stablereturns , more GDR

The problem is not having a 10.0000 HP monster, is to have some "goal" to kill the existing ones
an "Argo Slayer" title when we kill 100.000 of ?
a "kill 50.000 berycled to double the TT of your philosopher sword" quest
and existing weapons and armor refinement missions....

that is "Kill to become stronger" in items... so we are more powerful and spend more...
(INDIE development, we dont need activision-Blizzard for these things...........)
and the code is there

just my 2 cents

 

[Deemer]

I read some of the new messages on the thread. differetn opinions but all say "Gaming is costing very much"
it is true. EU is a costly game

the game has a Loot < cost to kill
the more you cycle, the more the more you loose on TT basis (no weapon can loot over cost to kill or MA would bankrupt)

MU is player to player transfer, driven by demand and supply (and floored by TT value)

so basically.... if we hunt naked with 0 MU weapons we expect to get back 98.5ish percent... WITH MAXED SKILL

that 1.5 lesser return go into skills.

THIS in the Only point we can expect an intervention
Soulbound (unsellable) skills that grow at 0 TT cost and make you powerful and rise some fraction the loot
that can be a difference... to higher return in term of TT.

if the playerbase rises we can expect the game to return even 99.5% (so reach 99.9% with shrap conversion)
and probably with higher playerbase we will see all loots falling to 101% for downcutting

that is the probable path in loot 3.0... less globals, more stablereturns , more GDR

The problem is not having a 10.0000 HP monster, is to have some "goal" to kill the existing ones
an "Argo Slayer" title when we kill 100.000 of ?
a "kill 50.000 berycled to double the TT of your philosopher sword" quest
and existing weapons and armor refinement missions....

that is "Kill to become stronger" in items... so we are more powerful and spend more...
(INDIE development, we dont need activision-Blizzard for these things...........)
and the code is there

just my 2 cents

The game always gives over 100%.

The problem is mainly in trade.
Most of the TT you take as part of your exchange of money in ped is unsaleable and this is the main problem... the trade system.

 

[Msturlese]

The game always gives over 100%.

The problem is mainly in trade.
Most of the TT you take as part of your exchange of money in ped is unsaleable and this is the main problem... the trade system.

Deemer this is untrue and misleading statement.
game does not loot over 100% TT (my argument) it loots LESS
that is why you say the same thing as i do "you need to trade to take ped off other ppl"
because loot is under ammo cost and just markup (player money not monster dropped money) can make you survice.

That said i think i cant contribute further to this thread. it is degenerating in some "player x get better loot thatn me" and its is simply useless.

 

[Deemer]

Deemer this is untrue and misleading statement.
game does not loot over 100% TT (my argument) it loots LESS
that is why you say the same thing as i do "you need to trade to take ped off other ppl"
because loot is under ammo cost and just markup (player money not monster dropped money) can make you survice.

That said i think i cant contribute further to this thread. it is degenerating in some "player x get better loot thatn me" and its is simply useless.

I understand what you offer, but the main thing that MA sells are skills.

You may be right about fidelity. I can't say for every profession, nor for a mob with 10k HP. Rather, in addition to the prey that is in focus, I also mean skills. But I associate with Loot 3.0 only for the Hunting profession. When you spend a ped, you get loot + skills in return. Here is an example.


At 560 ped run the loot is 510 ped and skills 140 ped.
Even if they cannot be sold directly into the TT, they have a value in ped.

Power leveling

It's OK, not everyone knows to face north when looting the creature ;) I understand that there are people who play for few pec/hour. But I didn't expect you not to test the "exploit".. so I doubt whether you are trying to just cover up the facts by shifting the view point of the topic. The...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

 

[Alukat123]

I understand what you offer, but the main thing that MA sells are skills.

but skills are pretty much worthless...
What good does it do you when you get from level 20 to 45, when the bad returns forces you to still stick to sub l20 mobs/crafts/whatever?

 

[Deemer]

but skills are pretty much worthless...

There is the answer. Follow the meaningful conversation.

Highest known Looter Professions in Entropia

John Black Knight - 98 Animal Looter / 95 Mutant Looter / 70 Robot Looter

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

What good does it do you when you get from level 20 to 45, when the bad returns forces you to still stick to sub l20 mobs/crafts/whatever?

Hunt - Isn't that the reason small mobs give more ped/skills? They just don't have MU loot, only those from the skill in the hunt.


Mining/Craft - It's just that the frame is different because you don't get 80% shrapnel.

Depending on the dynamics, we can take more MU elements because the chance is higher.
In low rates...
Hunting - more shrapnel.
Mining - low level of ore
Crafting - resides.

Higher levels of dynamics also affect the chance of finding better prey... in addition to the TT result.

Maybe I'm wrong... prove it.
I think this is the main reason why hight levels of players do not share their results... they will have more competition in the market.

 

[Arm]

If my analysis is weak than yours is off the wall if you consider that a logical response. Only side that will win there are the lawyers.
Mindark don’t baby players money, if you blew 20k USD and have nothing to show for it all these years later then that is on you. Many players have deposited the same amount and turned it into a small fortune, so the problem isn’t in the system.

MA is responsible for bad design not me. When I pay 20k USD they need to provide good service and keep the "invest" promise (they say it where you pay) and they should avoid taking people in by ambiguities etc.

Your analysis is weak, because you don't know when such client (clients) of a game who have paid them 20k USD is (are) very unhappy, it's on the game, the game is doomed if they do not do something fair and positive and stay greedy/unfair, too many people are unhappy while too few people are just lucky or just eating their CLD income (and some stick to strict eco rituals which makes it labor rather than a game).

Maybe my only mistake was to trust MA.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

MA is responsible for bad design not me. You pay 20k USD they need to provide good service and keep the "invest" promise and avoid taking people in by ambiguities etc.

Your analysis is weak, because you don't know when a client (clients) of a game who have paid them 20k USD is (are) unhappy, it's on the game, the game is doomed if they do not do something fair and positive and stay greedy/unfair, too many people are unhappy while too few people are just lucky or just eating their CLD income.

You didn’t pay them money. This isn’t like a typical money to goods transaction. You paid to have your money converted to a house currency and you spent that inside a virtual universe at your own pace and choosing. Mindark took a cut out of most of your activities as a way to pay for the upkeep of the universe they created for you. All of these activities are optional.

I would advise that you cease playing if this game causes you so much anguish. Why keep playing just to remain unhappy?
If you can’t stop playing due to an addiction then please seek help for this.

 

[Arm]

There is the answer. Follow the meaningful conversation.

Highest known Looter Professions in Entropia

John Black Knight - 98 Animal Looter / 95 Mutant Looter / 70 Robot Looter

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

Hunt - Isn't that the reason small mobs give more ped/skills? They just don't have MU loot, only those from the skill in the hunt.


Mining/Craft - It's just that the frame is different because you don't get 80% shrapnel.

Depending on the dynamics, we can take more MU elements because the chance is higher.
In low rates...
Hunting - more shrapnel.
Mining - low level of ore
Crafting - resides.

Higher levels of dynamics also affect the chance of finding better prey... in addition to the TT result.

Maybe I'm wrong... prove it.
I think this is the main reason why hight levels of players do not share their results... they will have more competition in the market.

Proof (there are many): paid 20k usd and did amped mining and medium/high maturity hunting for years and after a low amount of ped cycling it was reduced to zero and the return is even worse than lost mu etc. It is ironic that for some time I thought the game would balance mu spent etc after some reasonable loss of few percents and the game was all in all behaving like that for me for few years due to some high ATHs ! Either it took me in somehow (deliberately or by bad design) or it all changed after new changes to loot and mining return!

It must be a game not stupid labor to find out how ma designed it, it should be a game not gambling, it should be a game you can play various ways without a 20k usd loss and without sticking to stupid eco rituals (ok Ma, get 2k, 4k, or in the most stupid case 10k usd and be happy, but not all the 20k usd! After some loss, the game should give back mu and balance your investment and in return decrease chance to win high. And now that it has swallowed our money it should start returning half if not 90 percent of it and meanwhile it should give us some non-tradable nice gears worth our investment. It is as if taking people's money without providing comparable service has become a norm for MA, like killing for a killer. They cannot rob people's money with justifications of bad game design and ambiguous/deceptive information and game behavior).

A fair Loot 3.0 and fair new "mining return" dynamics is a must, considering seriously how much people have invested in the game and how much their investment is worth now.

There are regulatory law which does not allow companies to impose whatever they want in their T&C, specially given the title of service (game) and the promises such as "invest"ment (rather than gambling etc.).

 

[Alukat123]

Hunt - Isn't that the reason small mobs give more ped/skills? They just don't have MU loot, only those from the skill in the hunt.


Mining/Craft - It's just that the frame is different because you don't get 80% shrapnel.

Depending on the dynamics, we can take more MU elements because the chance is higher.
In low rates...
Hunting - more shrapnel.
Mining - low level of ore
Crafting - resides.

Higher levels of dynamics also affect the chance of finding better prey... in addition to the TT result.

Maybe I'm wrong... prove it.
I think this is the main reason why hight levels of players do not share their results... they will have more competition in the market.

i'm level 40+ in hunting now, yet still stick to sub 20 mobs, why? because of the bad periods... which happen quite often...
even with my 20-35 crafting level i'm crafting the same level of stuff i did craft when i was level 10....
no progression in the game... sure, skill numbers may get higher, but can't kill/craft bigger stuff... thanks to all those sub 80% tt-return periods which don't have an uber hof at the end....
That's where EU took a wrong turn.

It should go back to getting the jump from 90% TT-return to 95% tt-return every couple months instead of the current years...
Since loot 2.0 i do even consider 3 to 4-digit hofs being pretty small globals... which shouldn't be a surprise considering i need a 5-digit one to get to 95%...

 

[Arm]

i'm level 40+ in hunting now, yet still stick to sub 20 mobs, why? because of the bad periods... which happen quite often...
even with my 20-35 crafting level i'm crafting the same level of stuff i did craft when i was level 10....
no progression in the game... sure, skill numbers may get higher, but can't kill/craft bigger stuff... thanks to all those sub 80% tt-return periods which don't have an uber hof at the end....
That's where EU took a wrong turn.

It should go back to getting the jump from 90% TT-return to 95% tt-return every couple months instead of the current years...
Since loot 2.0 i do even consider 3 to 4-digit hofs being pretty small globals... which shouldn't be a surprise considering i need a 5-digit one to get to 95%...

Lucky you. I need a six digit one to make up for the loss!

And regarding mining, when I pay mu more than the others, why shouldn't the game give me back comparable high mu finds? (my hunting is almost eco I can say, though)

Bad game design and bad justifications till eternity?

And why does the game even avoid returning as those previous years or as "portrayed" later (regardless of the above expectation) (e.g. the return should be 80 percent or 70 percent due to mu while it is ~50% and it takes ages and it is not made up. Last time 5k ped of that was made up for me the game was much in a hurry to swallow it very quickly and even swallowed other payment making that HOF a negative thing rather than positive! Have we been paying more for that new Unreal Engine?)?

 

[Deemer]

i'm level 40+ in hunting now, yet still stick to sub 20 mobs, why? because of the bad periods... which happen quite often...
even with my 20-35 crafting level i'm crafting the same level of stuff i did craft when i was level 10....
no progression in the game... sure, skill numbers may get higher, but can't kill/craft bigger stuff... thanks to all those sub 80% tt-return periods which don't have an uber hof at the end....
That's where EU took a wrong turn.

It should go back to getting the jump from 90% TT-return to 95% tt-return every couple months instead of the current years...
Since loot 2.0 i do even consider 3 to 4-digit hofs being pretty small globals... which shouldn't be a surprise considering i need a 5-digit one to get to 95%...

I also don't think it's logical, but this is the situation right now. I don't like the dynamics... I don't like the field comparison. Because I've been there a long time and I don't see anyone. Do I have to go for shrapnel to get 96%... it's just not logical. I feed a mob alone because no one plays, here and there someone comes to kill 2 mobs around me, because he knows that after hunting there are some peds... and they try their luck... but everyone is waiting for the good dynamic rate. And at that time, half of my pool was reserved for comparison with another player... it doesn't make sense.