Suggestion: Loot 3.0 ideas

Alukat123

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The more i play the more i think loot 2.0 is fine. Maybe only thing i would want to change is how long the downswings can be. Hunting for weeks with 10% profitable hunts can get to you. However this makes the upswings last longer too. But for a player that cant cycle that much these downswings can be devastating.

it's not downswing per se that's the issue, it's more about how bad does the downswing get.. like 60% TT-return bad or 80% TT-return or 90% TT-return...
and those 60% TT-return runs just make the ped melt away very quickly and also it's very likely that you don't end up with a lot of MU loot...
 

Arm

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What I said has nothing to do with what you replied.
I'll say it again - go learn the game first and THEN invest in gear, when you understand what that gear does for you and and not have silly expectations. You can start with these points:
- 90% on decent activity and medium term is not possible;
- you should aim for 97.5% for long term
- tt return should be very low priority if you plan to stick around for a long period.

If you want to have satisfying results, you will have to step up from being super casual and most important educate yourself a bit.
But I'm sure you're still after the easy way, change a game you don't understand so it's easier for you to play once in a blue moon :)

What you said was quite related (my reply in various posts: need for change, need for fairness and fun in the game, no need to do boring labor in the game), and now you mention part of it, and for that part, I know my gear (gun etc.) should give back ~90 percent average according to the info disclosed, but it has been quite worse so far.

At the beginning and regarding mining, MA info was not enough and took me in for some time which is also not fair. The game also seem to have a taking-in process inherent in it in the beginning. I was over 100 percent return in mining after some months. Never repeated! Has become worse and worse. Long long time. The return on mining is quite lower than gear/MU/etc info entails as well.

It seems that the game want you to believe you will receive it after long time. And for that long time you must pay in and pay in and pay in!

Rather than blaming misinformed gamers, and blaming the informed but critic gamers, the lack of enough fairness and fun in the game should be criticised.

You kill 3000 proterons and your gear points to ~90 percent return and you get 75 percent, it is quite unfair, and the silly justification that there's a statistical formula and other have won more and you will win after ages IS NOT A FAIR ANSWER. Of course the machines work based on the formula they have programmed with (focus fact by silly answers to calls for Fair&Fun change in form of a Loot 3.0).

That MA and the game SOMEHOW misinforms people at the beginning (or avoids informing in some cases), is also a matter of concern. A dashboard for stats and returns can help with this.

When you pay 10k Euros to a game, if it takes over 1k Euros it looks like stealing. It can give you back 9K but attach loss/reward to that 1k. Many novice players understand something in this line from initial info available and also the game seem to work in that line for some time (taking-in process)! After several months, my paid-in to net-worth ratio was around 1. Continued to pay. Now it is around 1/6 ! (although I am much more informed and have mined and hunted much, thousands)

Can you understand the different aspects of this? Different criticisms? Different ideas put forward for improvement in the entire post? Generic old answers does not help (your list of official MA statements is good, thanks, MA should inform when people join and should provide honest statistics with subtle corners. They use the word "invest" (in your avatar) for new players which is quite misleading together with the raw claims of 98 percent average return, compared to what happens to most players (victims), and this would make any judge thoughtful if not angry. It is also far from being a sustainable fair and fun strategy which can attract many more players).
 
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Arm

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About the system, Yes of course.. There are people who use their head more than their mouse... they see the point in investing a lot of money in a game and they do. Do you think a LOL player should benefit more from them? I would also like to invest in certain things, but they are out of my pocket, that's why I'm just playing... no one is forcing us to playing here, right?

Greedy and Unfair definitions are the status of players(like they said "that's my playstyle")... this is the difference between system and users, no matter what changes there are, they will be fucked by these people. This is another topic of conversation.

And to stop looking at the upper left corner, maybe you miss the main thing in the game?!

See the above post (and the previous ones which provide details) to not to miss the subtle points. It cannot be oversimplified, and something more-similar to a scam is far from a game of wisdom. Remember that the real world background of some nagging players is truly outstanding in science, technology and business. Don't oversimplify the issues and don't justify MA mistakes please. Come up with improvement ideas, as I have (or better).
 
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Arm

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The scam (or whatever it is) worked for me this way:

1. I was/am interested in the virtual world and the future opportunities it would gradually provide for fun and business. I did not mind joining and waiting and paying and exploring the opportunities it would be gradually providing for fun/business.

2. The keywords "invest" (in avatar) and average return of 95-98 percent suggested game could be sensible regarding getting the money.

3. After several months of relaxed playing and paying in and hunting and mining, cycling relatively much, which looked enough for a test, my net worth to payed-in ratio was above 1.

4. Continued and even though I had gained much more info regarding the gear/game., my net worth to payed-in ratio is about 1/6 (skills included!!) and getting worse after much hunting and mining.

(I don't mind to pay, but not to a greedy and unfair game with misinformation and without a proper reporting system. It CAN be fixed.)

Main suggestions to help with fixing:

1. Much more info for new players + comprehensive Dashboards for players who have paid-in over 1k with much stats details
2. At least 90% of what you pay in should be returned to you unless you "directly" give it away. (it can start with giving back non-tradable valuable gears/land/apt. to justify the "invest" promise and such that players don't feel robbed)
3. Any hidden entry bonus (or things in that line) which makes calculations wrong should be disclosed boldly at the beginning of joining
4. Adding mystery instances and puzzle-like missions and new interesting places such as the volcano underground cave
5. Other ideas I keep for the time being :)
6. Going to court for a final loot if MA decides to ignore its loyal and patient clients (the victims, not the handful of lucky people who think it is their wisdom).

( The ideas may seem hard to manage and 1-5 need to refactor game towards, but it seems that the ideas all-in-all: shall bring much more players in and shall keep more players in and shall make it more fun and fairer, even the idea no. 6 moves MA and the game forward ! )

:birthday: :computer:
 
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Deemer

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The scam (or whatever it is) worked for me this way:

1. I was/am interested in the virtual world and the future opportunities it would gradually provide for fun and business. I did not mind joining and waiting and paying and exploring the opportunities it would be gradually providing for fun/business.

2. The keywords "invest" (in avatar) and average return of 95-98 percent suggested game could be sensible regarding getting the money.

3. After several months of relaxed playing and paying in and hunting and mining, cycling relatively much, which looked enough for a test, my net worth to payed-in ratio was above 1.

4. Continued and even though I had gained much more info regarding the gear/game., my net worth to payed-in ratio is about 1/6 (skills included!!) and getting worse after much hunting and mining.

(I don't mind to pay, but not to a greedy and unfair game with misinformation and without a proper reporting system. It CAN be fixed.)


I agree with the misleading information! And let's not forget that everyone starts with Barbarella against Puny=), which does not fit into the understanding of the game.

When the Codex came out, the mob had limits on the loss you could suffer, and that limit was equal to the HP of the mob you were hunting. Even when you killed them with one shot, it was very rare to get a double loss. Maybe because of the abuse of the prizes, this limit is much higher now, and sometimes maybe there is no limit now (I'm not sure for the last). That's why your loss months ago and now are different.

And I will not stop repeating that we currently have no chance for our own pool! I hunted a mob for almost a month to test this. For this month, I never once regained even a part of what I lost. That's why I'm 100% sure you can't recoup your loss if there are no other players.

The game is currently set to run after Looter level 100 and Mess*'s knife! There has no gameplay for low and mid levels! This should be changed and not with additional skill prizes, this generate only more inactive leechers!
 
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Alukat123

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Yeah, minimum of TT-return of 90% would be decent... running 60-80% TT-return over 4 weeks just sucks...
 
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Alukat123

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Please tell me the secret i want to have return like you :D

i'm just going for MU stuff , the bad tt-return happens automatically :rolleyes: Started to be that bad 2 weeks before mayhem started...
 

ImUp2Mischief

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Yeah, minimum of TT-return of 90% would be decent... running 60-80% TT-return over 4 weeks just sucks...
Try 8 weeks now return just over 82% on 10k cycled.
1st 1 hour run I did I ffa1, 100 ped ammo plus 24 decay, shrapnel converted.. left me 3.42 ped.. wtf..
I was a daily player, these returns made me reevaluate how I spend my game time.
 
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Alukat123

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Try 8 weeks now return just over 82% on 10k cycled.
1st 1 hour run I did I ffa1, 100 ped ammo plus 24 decay, shrapnel converted.. left me 3.42 ped.. wtf..
I was a daily player, these returns made me reevaluate how I spend my game time.

I had a break of over a year... came back, seen returns were good for 4 months, globals every couple days and on a 3-5 day basis 90+% TT-return... so i thought MA has finally adressed the volatility... depo'd some money because expansion plans and thinking volatility got reduced... and then it was 2 weeks before Mayhem and returns just went to being total shit....

so... since you just can't trust the loot and there will still be extreme swings out of nowhere and MA will obviously never adress the issue... no more depoing, ever....
 
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ImUp2Mischief

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I had a break of over a year... came back, seen returns were good for 4 months, globals every couple days and on a 3-5 day basis 90+% TT-return... so i thought MA has finally adressed the volatility... depo'd some money because expansion plans and thinking volatility got reduced... and then it was 2 weeks before Mayhem and returns just went to being total shit....

so... since you just can't trust the loot and there will still be extreme swings out of nowhere and MA will obviously never adress the issue... no more depoing, ever....
Funny you say that as that was 1 of my thoughts..
I played for months from the ped left in my account when returned last year, loot was very stable around 90%.
I was enjoying the game and made a 50 usd deposit out of courtesy mainly, support the game and build my account.
It was within the next few days after this deposit my returns suddenly dropped dramatically.
 
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Evey

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You can't cycle 10k over 8 weeks and have stable returns. The game doesn't work like that, no matter how much you think it should. It just doesn't work like that. You can only expect good results when you play the game by the game's rules, not yours.
 
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Tom Archy Blad

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I've read all this thread and you obviously don't understand how this game work.

I'm not one of these big ubber, top geared hunter with hundred of thousands skill points.
But as you like numbers like me, i'll give you some of mines :

Craft : 110 000 click : 94.7% TT return (around 10x 1k multi, 2x 3k+ multi )(from L7 to L12 engineer on 100QR BP)
Hunt : 270 000 ped cycled : ~96.8% TT return (>99% if I include a "comeback" ubber hof)

Do you wonder how i can't get these good stats ? Here is a clue :

All crafting click were done in two weeks, minimal run was 10k click
Hunting was done in 8 month on only 6 differents mobs, well chosen.

Instead of complaining about your bad return, you should keep this energy to understand why other players can have better return, learn and do it yourself.

To stay in OP, Loot 3.0 isn't needed. 2.0 is more fair even if it reduce the fun by limitating votality of loot.
 
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Alukat123

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Craft : 110 000 click : 94.7% TT return (around 10x 1k multi, 2x 3k+ multi )(from L7 to L12 engineer on 100QR BP)

Here's my worst streak:
crafts: 390000 click: 90,2% TT return... 10k clicks later, 95,2% TT-return (4x 1k multi within 10k clicks and a few 3 digits multis on top)

And you did get 3k+ multis? must have been condition, never seen any of those on quantity in over 1.2 million clicks.
 
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Alukat123

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Instead of complaining about your bad return, you should keep this energy to understand why other players can have better return, learn and do it yourself.

because they get multipliers more frequently.. that's something i know but you don't :dunno:

pretty sure you gonna stop being a smart-ass once you hit that 200+k click period without any 3 or 4 digit multiliers
 

Evey

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pretty sure you gonna stop being a smart-ass once you hit that 200+k click period without any 3 or 4 digit multiliers

He's just being smart, smth you can't do no matter how many clicks you try. The good thing is that there are many new players who get it quite fast and manage to build a path understanding the system and the way forward...
You'd be shocked how few multis I got this year on 6mil cycled. Means nothing still....
Just to add what many others are saying repeatedly, so did I, learn the god damn game already!!!!
 

Tom Archy Blad

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because they get multipliers more frequently.. that's something i know but you don't :dunno:

pretty sure you gonna stop being a smart-ass once you hit that 200+k click period without any 3 or 4 digit multiliers

Don't feel offended when someone take his time to educate you.

If you know how to get a lot of multi but you can't reach a decent returns, maybe you're wrong focusing on it ?

I'm maybe a smart-ass but i'm not loosing ped like you do, even with spending 1-2k a day.
Many people already explained you here or on other thread how things work but refuse to understand it.

Oh and thanks for your ped.
 

Alukat123

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Don't feel offended when someone take his time to educate you.

but you're not educating... there's not anything useful in your post at all.

If you know how to get a lot of multi

then tell me, how do you increase the frequency/size of multipliers. tell me, how do you change those tiny times 20 multipliers into a times 200? are you hacking the server to do that?

Many people already explained you here or on other thread how things work

no, nobody explained anything. All you and the others were claiming, was that i would be doing it wrong.
Oh, and btw, once you leave the EP1 for skilling stage and start to actually go for crafting stuff for MU, you gonna see that it's going to play out entirely differently to what it is for you at the moment.

I'm maybe a smart-ass but i'm not loosing ped like you do, even with spending 1-2k a day.

i'm still in profit by a lot =) Just annoying temporary losses because of a 60-80% TT-return month. i cycled 10-12k in 2 days btw, so ofc a bad period is more ped loss for me than it is for you with your smaller ped cycled.. And that's what is the issue, why the fuck has there to be 60-80% TT-return for a fucking month and where's the hof that is supposed to make up for that bad period?
 
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Tom Archy Blad

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but you're not educating... there's not anything useful in your post at all.
I'll try, one last time as I'm not here to show-off or to divert people.

then tell me, how do you increase the frequency/size of multipliers. tell me, how do you change those tiny times 20 multipliers into a times 200? are you hacking the server to do that?

Did I said a single time know how to get more multiplier nor i'm looking at it ?
I didn't but YOU know how, as you said before :

because they get multipliers more frequently.. that's something i know but you don't :dunno:

Who is the broke smart-ass ? uh :duh:
Multi is a part of the answer about good TT returns but not the only source.

Oh, and btw, once you leave the EP1 for skilling stage and start to actually go for crafting stuff for MU, you gonna see that it's going to play out entirely differently to what it is for you at the moment.

Still better to click EP1, get positive return and free skilling than click EP4, go broke because i can't cycle enough and come complain on forum. I'm not playing to be a rich-ass. Btw I afk-craft only when i can't play... as its free.

Just annoying temporary losses because of a 60-80% TT-return month. i cycled 10-12k in 2 days btw, so ofc a bad period is more ped loss for me than it is for you with your smaller ped cycled.. And that's what is the issue, why the fuck has there to be 60-80% TT-return for a fucking month and where's the hof that is supposed to make up for that bad period?

Are you really going to play "who got the bigger" here ?
If you cycle 6k ped a day with 60% TT return, delete EU or give your money to charity, they will use it intelligently

And that's what is the issue, why the fuck has there to be 60-80% TT-return for a fucking month and where's the hof that is supposed to make up for that bad period?

Read, learn, be clever and look at your signature.

I'll not spend more time with you, good luck at everyone that will try to argue with you or worst, try to help you.
 

Alukat123

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I'll try, one last time as I'm not here to show-off or to divert people.

Still nothing useful in your post :dunno:


Did I said a single time know how to get more multiplier nor i'm looking at it ?
I didn't but YOU know how, as you said before :

I said i know they get more, not that i would know how to get more... l2r...

Multi is a part of the answer about good TT returns but not the only source.

Without multis you get only the base TT-return and that's roughly 80%.... You want to play the expert here but you don't even know those basics...

Still better to click EP1, get positive return and free skilling than click EP4, go broke because i can't cycle enough and come complain on forum.

I don't click EP4... that's all you guys can do, claim stuff that simply isn't true...

If you cycle 6k ped a day with 60% TT return

Because you're such an expert to know whether the game is gonna give 60%, 80% , 90% or 95% when you start doing something, right? If i had known that MA turns the return to trash after 4 months of okay return, then i would have indeed given the money to charity instead of MA...

Read, learn, be clever and look at your signature.

There's never anything useful or something to learn in posts by people like you, only shit-talking and smart-assery and false claims

I'll not spend more time with you, good luck at everyone that will try to argue with you or worst, try to help you.

there's never anything helpful in those posts. So you're thinking you would be helpful when in fact you're just shit talking...
 

Igorl

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Doing L13 amps on CND and complaining about losses is like going into hogh roller part of the casino and complaining about tips to the waitress are bankrupting you.

I.
 

Alukat123

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I'm still wondering if the person who said, 'can't have 95% return all time, because no more globals/hofs then' will answer why it needs to be 50-80% TT-return bad all the time....
 
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B-K

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I won't , fun forum post to read less so to deal with your bs.
You can't even keep track of what you said yourself 66-75% not 50-80%.
Enjoy
 

Arm

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Here you won me!
We need fun in FOMA at 97%+ return!
We need fun with full condition at 97%+return!

Maybe we need LAL game? :eureka:
" Here you won me!"

Who said that (97% ...)?

Do not conceal the facts indirectly!
 
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Arm

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I agree with the misleading information! And let's not forget that everyone starts with Barbarella against Puny=), which does not fit into the understanding of the game.

When the Codex came out, the mob had limits on the loss you could suffer, and that limit was equal to the HP of the mob you were hunting. Even when you killed them with one shot, it was very rare to get a double loss. Maybe because of the abuse of the prizes, this limit is much higher now, and sometimes maybe there is no limit now (I'm not sure for the last). That's why your loss months ago and now are different.

And I will not stop repeating that we currently have no chance for our own pool! I hunted a mob for almost a month to test this. For this month, I never once regained even a part of what I lost. That's why I'm 100% sure you can't recoup your loss if there are no other players.

The game is currently set to run after Looter level 100 and Mess*'s knife! There has no gameplay for low and mid levels! This should be changed and not with additional skill prizes, this generate only more inactive leechers!

When comparing, I am not comparing to the beginning. I am comparing to a time similar to now in terms of hunting/mining size (bigger mobs, similar mining size).

When you say "no chance for our own pool" now, you mean there was a pool before for sure?
 

Arm

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I've read all this thread and you obviously don't understand how this game work.

I'm not one of these big ubber, top geared hunter with hundred of thousands skill points.
But as you like numbers like me, i'll give you some of mines :

Craft : 110 000 click : 94.7% TT return (around 10x 1k multi, 2x 3k+ multi )(from L7 to L12 engineer on 100QR BP)
Hunt : 270 000 ped cycled : ~96.8% TT return (>99% if I include a "comeback" ubber hof)

Do you wonder how i can't get these good stats ? Here is a clue :

All crafting click were done in two weeks, minimal run was 10k click
Hunting was done in 8 month on only 6 differents mobs, well chosen.

Instead of complaining about your bad return, you should keep this energy to understand why other players can have better return, learn and do it yourself.

To stay in OP, Loot 3.0 isn't needed. 2.0 is more fair even if it reduce the fun by limitating votality of loot.

Loot 2 is not fun nor fair, it is greedy and it needs non-fun pattern of gaming to get better return and ... .

Change is needed. Otherwise: less new players, more non-paying players, less payment, ...

MA business is stock in a small egg !
 

Arm

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He's just being smart, smth you can't do no matter how many clicks you try. The good thing is that there are many new players who get it quite fast and manage to build a path understanding the system and the way forward...
You'd be shocked how few multis I got this year on 6mil cycled. Means nothing still....
Just to add what many others are saying repeatedly, so did I, learn the god damn game already!!!!

New players are given newcomer bonuses to take them in?
 

Westy

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The difference of my playing with more careful users may be: more big mobs and higher mining amps

(FOMA L13 amped mining, Proteron, Leviathan, ...)

Should i be punished with repeated bankruptcies? Or it is happening to everybody as MA's way of making people pay in (not wise at all for MA in long run, not fun for us at all too)!

Maybe we can help MA and ourselves by suggesting new ideas:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?315373-Loot-3-0-ideas
In short you gambled and lost. You lose MU. L13 amps is even worse that ep4 clicks because of the markups. There is not enough resources with high enough MU to make up the difference. I've used a few L13's for a bit of fun here and there within my limits. So what you experience is like the opposite of investing. e.g. cumulative interest is profit on top of previous profit and equity. In this scenario is repeated loss on top of declining ped balance. If you used Terra amps 7 and 8 you would have had more drops and chance of balancing loot. Globals and hofs don't equal success.

I laugh when i'm hunting and getting 20, 30, 40 ped loots one after the other on mid levels. Sure no one knows i'm getting it as my name is not on the board or in EL and they think the player with a few globals is winning.

I don't think you need a 3.0 to solve this issue.
 
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Westy

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The good thing is that there are many new players who get it quite fast and manage to build a path understanding the system and the way forward...
There are some who have reached L100 with less than a few hundred (dollars, pounds, whatever). They inspire me and they are very careful and make considered decisions. That said i'm happy to pay a bit more to play and be a little bit silly (I am impulsive and binging in nature) and make a mistake or two but only within my means. First time i used an L13 i noticed immediately hey I got TT return but i lost the MU. Ok so these are what you could call a sometimes food (junk). If anyone can't figure out what is wrong there and persists in the hope of an ath and playing lotto style is guaranteed a loss. And that goes for all pathways.
 
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