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Suggestion: Loot 3.0 ideas

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ML-45 unlimited, 46.6 efficiency (Mayhem B-amped Beta), L29 animal looter, L59 BLP sniper hit, L55 dmg, ...
Hunting Total Loot: 151 604 PED (Entropia Life)
Mining Total Loot: 179 213 PED (Entropia Life)
(recent focus: mostly hunting, paid in last year: ~50k peds! Won ring, spent the 16k ring as well, remaining out of 50k+16k: a 3.5k gun and several hundred peds of skills!!)
(at the beginning and before new loot system, it was much different, it now looks to me as if the system takes us in at the beginning to trust it later for long time assuming it will be fair!?)
 
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True Juan said:
Lol, no wonder u lose so fast :)
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should it not be over 90 percent return?

before the new loot system I was using a 28% efficiency one and I could loot 8k and 6k , without as much paying in !

(approximately, in the last 12 months I have paid in as much as the 36+ months before that!)
 
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messi91 said:
we hear you , we hear you.
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:) THE famous one is here , greetings !

Any suggestions how the mining return and the hunting loot system can be improved in form of a Loot 3.0, or let's say Return System 3.0?
 
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Arm said:
ML-45 unlimited, 46.6 efficiency (amped), L29 animal looter, L59 BLP sniper hit, L55 dmg, ...
Click to expand...

each "miss" shot is lost PED since it's not considered as input and will not be returned in loot calculation. so how much is it? 0.5p? 1p? every single missed shot... add some MU input on your side (perseus, enhancers, etc.) and I am already wondering how did you manage to lose so little...
 
Improvement idea: Can everybody get an indicator of return by MA, daily, weekly, monthly, annually and whole time, calculated automatically by the system? A dashboard? You spend 10K USD in a game and a dashboard is part of a normal good service I assume.

Maybe at least for those who have paid in over 1k UDS all in all?

If the system increases features for regular players who pay in, it makes the game more attractive.
 
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allarom said:
each "miss" shot is lost PED since it's not considered as input and will not be returned in loot calculation. so how much is it? 0.5p? 1p? every single missed shot... add some MU input on your side (perseus, enhancers, etc.) and I am already wondering how did you manage to lose so little...
Click to expand...

Your estimated calculation seems wrong, what you suggested reduces a 98% return to something like 90% the lowest (all other factors combined as well), while even 70% return does not look to justify my numbers. And by the way, as L-45 is a ~145 meters range gun, armor decay is very low.

Reducing ~66k to something like 6k (gun + new skills) in few cycles is odd.

And 3k+ mob hunts has happened by finishing mamooth Leviathan and Proteron missions.
 
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Arm said:
Your estimated calculation seems wrong, what you suggested reduces a 98% return to 90% the lowest (all other factors combined as well), while even 70% return does not look to justify my numbers. And by the way, as it is a ~150 meters range gun, armor decay is very low.

Reducing ~66k to something like 6k (gun + new skills) in few cycles
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my calculation? 100% is max. you lose -5% from looter, -3,7% from efficiency. -3% missed shots (not sure about this number since I never use unmaxed stuff), -3% from used MU (most likely). So you should stand around 85% return with that kind of setup. so expect to lose -15p on every 100p you cycle - easy math :D

I might be wrong with some % here and there, but you get an idea
 
oh, and your cycle calculation is wrong also. no way you have cycled only 250k at the same time when your hunting tracker shows 151k and mining 179 k :D it should mean profit :D
 
allarom said:
oh, and your cycle calculation is wrong also. no way you have cycled only 250k at the same time when your hunting tracker shows 151k and mining 179 k :D it should mean profit :D
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250k? Is that the old number from old posts in this thread? The calculations above are by entropia tracker and a new one based on new hunting and mining. And as said, even 70 percent return does not justify reducing 66k to 6k in few cycles!!

By the way, those numbers are for whole time (151k and 179k), paid in amount totally ~100k peds.

For the first ~50k chunk paid in during 36+ months, I was even less efficient but won 14k peds mining HOF and 4k, 6k and 8k hunting HOF. And it was usually not a late win after many months of cycling. The return was not bad at the beginning. It became worse and worse as the time passed! After the new loot system it became really odd! (see the last year numbers as an example)
 
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Arm said:
Improvement idea: Can everybody get an indicator of return by MA, daily, weekly, monthly, annually and whole time, calculated automatically by the system? A dashboard? You spend 10K USD in a game and a dashboard is part of a normal good service I assume.

Maybe at least for those who have paid in over 1k UDS all in all?

If the system increases features for regular players who pay in, it makes the game more attractive.
Click to expand...

Anybody in for this improvement idea? Like it?
 
We used to have a president, where is he? Can he chase popular game improvement ideas with MA?
 
Arm said:
Anybody in for this improvement idea? Like it?
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I'm all for readily accessible information. You should however know that most of us (at least I think so?) keep track of this information ourselves in one way or another. Unless you track where your money goes, it's very hard to assess it correctly. You should do the same.

tracker summary.png
 
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Ferial said:
I'm all for readily accessible information. You should however know that most of us (at least I think so?) keep track of this information ourselves in one way or another. Unless you track where your money goes, it's very hard to assess it correctly. You should do the same.

tracker summary.png
Click to expand...

I agree, and as these calculations are not a joyful part of the game, an automatic dashboard would help and make the game more enjoyable.
 
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Arm said:
I agree, and as these calculations are not a "joy" part of the game, an automatic dashboard would help and make the game more enjoyable.
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Ah you see, that's where people are different. These calculations and their surrounding elements are the only reason I'm still playing the game. To me, the numbers make the game. But I do see your point.
 
In my opinion we don't need a new loot 3.0 for hunting. We just need to know the current one well, learn to play and know how to measure our rate of returns.

Your return calculation doesn't accord to the math.
60,000 peds should serve to recycle 594,000 peds at a return rate of 90%.

Here a simulation,
recicl10.jpg


Don't forget that we should never spend more MU than we expect to get in the loot.
For example, If you buy rifles and armor with MU of 130% on average when you only expect to get a loot with MU of 106%. You will only lose money and you will never achieve a real 90% return.

On the other hand if your current bankroll does not allow you to hunt big mobs you should not do it because you will lose. You say the 60k was in 4 years. Thats may be associated with your poor performance. (litle runnings of huntings) Please think a litle about that. (Remember this: personal pool loot does not exist!)

However, in my opinion we don't need a 3.0 loot, we just need to study the game a little more.
 
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Xavier_Jr said:
In my opinion we don't need a new loot 3.0 for hunting. We just need to know the current one well, learn to play and know how to measure our rate of returns.

Your return calculation doesn't accord to the math.
60,000 peds should serve to recycle 594,000 peds at a return rate of 90%.

Here a simulation,
recicl10.jpg


Don't forget that we should never spend more MU than we expect to get in the loot.
For example, If you buy rifles and armor with MU of 130% on average when you only expect to get a loot with MU of 106%. You will only lose money and you will never achieve a real 90% return.

On the other hand if your current bankroll does not allow you to hunt big mobs you should not do it because you will lose. You say the 60k was in 4 years. Thats may be associated with your poor performance. (litle runnings of huntings) Please think a litle about that.

However, in my opinion we don't need a 3.0 loot, we just need to study the game a little more.
Click to expand...

Yes, the math does not add up, even with 70% return. My hunting should be ~90%+, or ~85%+, while my mining should be ~75%+ or ~70%+, given MU etc. It looks much lower with the reason being odd chance (?) given the present figures. Odd chance should not last this long in Entropia, should it? Previously, it did not. Let's see.

And: paid in ~50k in 3 years, then paid in and spent ~66k (including a 16k ring) in 1 year !
 
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Alukat123 said:
I'd be going with this:
Hunting loot events:
10% Chance for 90% return on kill
44% Chance for 93% return on kill
45% Chance for 95% return on kill
1% Chance for 100+% return on kill (aka Multiplier)
garantueed TT-return: 90+%

Crafting (quantity + maxed for chances):
turn all BPs into SIB BPs
5% Chance for fail
1% Chance for 100+% return success (aka multiplier)
36% Chance for 100% TT-return success
58% Chance for 90% TT-return near success

Mining (based on 1 ped per drop):
33% chance for nrf
66% chance for 1,35 PED claim
1% chance for Multplier
add level 14 amplifier > 1,5 times the decay of level 13 amp & 1,5 times the claim size of level 13 amp
add level 15 amplifier > 2 times the decay of level 13 & 2 times the claim size of level 13 amp

this outdoor mining/quantity crafting of course.

Not satisfied with the way the game currently is... last crafting run was about 73% TT-return... like it is most of the time D:
Click to expand...

That's some boring ass shit.

Some yall folks in here need to learn some math and read up on bankroll management. You want safety and not take any risks but want all the reward not realizing that it would also apply to everyone.. which means there is very little incentive for anything to be of value.

Additionally, some of you need to realize that Return % and ROI are two different calculations.
 
atomicstorm said:
That's some boring ass shit.

Some yall folks in here need to learn some math and read up on bankroll management. You want safety and not take any risks but want all the reward not realizing that it would also apply to everyone.. which means there is very little incentive for anything to be of value.

Additionally, some of you need to realize that Return % and ROI are two different calculations.
Click to expand...

General obvious facts do not help, it makes sense when you talk numbers here. I did, for example:


Yes, the math does not add up, even with 70% return. My hunting should be ~90%+, or ~85%+, while my mining should be ~75%+ or ~70%+, given MU etc. It looks much lower with the reason being odd chance (?) given the present figures. Odd chance should not last this long in Entropia, should it? Previously, it did not. Let's see.

And: paid in ~50k in 3 years, then paid in and spent ~66k (including a 16k ring) in 1 year !
 
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Alukat123 said:
I'd be going with this:
Hunting loot events:
10% Chance for 90% return on kill
44% Chance for 93% return on kill
45% Chance for 95% return on kill
1% Chance for 100+% return on kill (aka Multiplier)
garantueed TT-return: 90+%

Crafting (quantity + maxed for chances):
turn all BPs into SIB BPs
5% Chance for fail
1% Chance for 100+% return success (aka multiplier)
36% Chance for 100% TT-return success
58% Chance for 90% TT-return near success

Mining (based on 1 ped per drop):
33% chance for nrf
66% chance for 1,35 PED claim
1% chance for Multplier
add level 14 amplifier > 1,5 times the decay of level 13 amp & 1,5 times the claim size of level 13 amp
add level 15 amplifier > 2 times the decay of level 13 & 2 times the claim size of level 13 amp

this outdoor mining/quantity crafting of course.

Not satisfied with the way the game currently is... last crafting run was about 73% TT-return... like it is most of the time D:
Click to expand...

This is interesting.
 
Arm said:
General obvious facts do not help, it makes sense when you talk numbers here. I did, for example:


Yes, the math does not add up, even with 70% return. My hunting should be ~90%+, or ~85%+, while my mining should be ~75%+ or ~70%+, given MU etc. It looks much lower with the reason being odd chance (?) given the present figures. Odd chance should not last this long in Entropia, should it? Previously, it did not. Let's see.

And: paid in ~50k in 3 years, then paid in and spent ~66k (including a 16k ring) in 1 year !
Click to expand...

I have multiple logs + the bankroll management thread I linked to you. There's your math. I don't really need to spell anything more out for you.
 
Alukat123 said:
Not satisfied with the way the game currently is... last crafting run was about 73% TT-return... like it is most of the time D:
Click to expand...

They like dynamic calculation and your suggestion is not dynamic enough ;P
 
atomicstorm said:
That's some boring ass shit.
Click to expand...

If you want to gamble, there's FOMA, Hell, Arkadia Underground, Condition crafting.. amplifier and crafts which may even go beyond 280 PED per click... that should be exiciting enough gamble, you just need to use it ;) With those options i don't get why you think quantity crafting and planet side mining would need to be a total gamble...

And if you want to gamble on hunting, RT has Ruxnexx codes which can be used to spawn L1119 & L4xx Zombie Kongs...

Anyway, that post of me was from an old time, when quantity crafting was as much of a gamble as condition crafting, tt-return wise. Fortunately MA has changed it since that old post.
 
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allarom said:
strange that you suggest loot 3.0 without having any idea about loot 2.0 :D
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Don't be so sure! :)

Update: I got 11k leviathan HOF (yesterday), which shows I was right it had been odd. It still is, but quite less odd as the mamooth leviathan mission I finished makes sense now.
 
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Let's suggest the Returns Dashboard to the AMA (Ask Me Anything) event being planned by MA.

It will be a fantastic addition: daily stats, weekly, monthly, annually and whole time, in a dashboard for those who have paid in 1k+ USD.
 
Arm said:
Don't be so sure! :)

Update: I got 11k leviathan HOF (yesterday), which shows I was right it had been odd. It still is, but quite less odd as the mamooth leviathan mission I finished makes sense now.
Click to expand...

Update: ~11k from Leviathan plus another ~4k (paid in several days ago) gone in mining and hunting with very strange returns statistics !! The dashboard for returns seems to be a must.
 
Update:

- MA: "skill misses" (not evades) do affect your "loot value" returns negatively as they did in the past
(seems to be a few percentage, no significant effect on calculations)

- Another 4.5k paid in

- A 30k to 50k HOF can make the numbers and calculations look ordinary (not odd).

- Loot and mining dashboard seems to be a necessary feature for regular payers.
 
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