Loot Algorithm ACTUALLY solved (RIP)

Calculator

Young
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Posts
20
:scratch2:Of course the game is rigged, do you think this is a charity? They need a % cut to keep the game rolling and paying wages etc.
You are missing his point.

They are entitled to their cut. They are not entitled to rig the dice.

Casinos rely on the law of averages. They do NOT rely on rigging outcomes. (Unless they are criminal, that is.)
 

Calculator

Young
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Posts
20
An indie game developer that doesn't understand the fundamentals of loot algorithms and how they are of course never random since that would be a total disaster? :scratch2:
Why would that be a disaster? Stable games (and Casinos) rely on the law of averages.

Randomness does NOT equal unpredictability (in the long run). Any strategy game player knows that. Over the course of a few games, the dice average out.
 

Calculator

Young
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Posts
20
While I think there is something to your theory (it makes sense), I think your premise is flawed. Of course the dice are loaded and the odds are in favor of the house. It must be that way for such a game to exist.
No, it must not.

I grant you that odds in favour of the house are legit. Loaded dice are cheating. These are two very different things.
 

unufain8

Alpha
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Posts
567
Location
Somewhere between here and there.
Society
Dark Side
Avatar Name
-Saphire of Dark-
The true ramdomness is right after you deposit. Everytime i deposit i start to get loot, everytime. Same works with boxes.
 

forgo

Elite
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Posts
3,382
Location
US
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Forgo Forgorth Lundain
This is a game of player markups. Instances have their own unique mechanics of loot due to zero tax, the key markup is the tax- which is also a player markup.
Your job is to weigh the returns you get in the first few runs to see if that marklup is worth the cost.....not keep brute forcing something you dont have the gear or skills for to gain advantage....all on the hopes of RNG like other games......this is not how to win in Entropia!

Consider this, you paid another player markups to run those keys, while you lost, another gained. Next time be the one on the other end.
Markup. word of the day.

So sad to me to see so many people misunderstand this game which brought me out of food stamps and poverty and into significant wealth. I've accumulated more wealth since starting this game than those I know with advanced degrees....and I never had to work a day. Basing an entire game on a single instance (which seems more of a broken experiment( a common RT occurrence sadly), many instances are borked there) may be looking in the wrong places for answers.
 

Divinity

Marauder
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Posts
5,132
Location
India
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Divinity Deth Undefined
Any one who knows about computers, and even reality, there is no random, random is simply not knowing the inputs to an outcome.

No computer in the world can generate and random number, it is usually done from a seed and self repeating equation. Personally I like to use milliseconds of a system clock myself when I program, as people have very little control on such a small time scale.
There is much wisdom in what has been said above. *especially about REALITY*

You are missing his point.

They are entitled to their cut. They are not entitled to rig the dice.

Casinos rely on the law of averages. They do NOT rely on rigging outcomes. (Unless they are criminal, that is.)
Well everyone seems to miss *some point*. In your case, the fact that MA has always said it was not a casino and the fact that ENTROPIA ( arrived at from Entropy) basically means slow decay over time and it is unidirectional when considered over a period of time.

Just saying :-D
 

Xen

Mutated
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Posts
10,145
Society
Payn-Inc
Avatar Name
Xendar Xen Xal
None of which proves him wrong.
We should not have to prove a negative. The OP should provide proof of his wall of theory. Otherwise this is just another.
 

Mega

Chaotic Good
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Posts
15,955
Location
United Kingdom
Society
Kaos
Avatar Name
MegaVolt
It's not what you know, it's who.
 

Calculator

Young
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Posts
20
There is much wisdom in what has been said above. *especially about REALITY*



Well everyone seems to miss *some point*. In your case, the fact that MA has always said it was not a casino and the fact that ENTROPIA ( arrived at from Entropy) basically means slow decay over time and it is unidirectional when considered over a period of time.

Just saying :-D
You have a point. However, they also say it´s skill-based, which is a half-truth at best.

If it were truly skill-based, there would be a skill-based opportunity to win against the house, but it appears there isn´t....

Take Black Jack, which is partially skill-based, which means some players can beat the house. If you are guaranteed to lose (except by successfully exploiting other players), I wouldn´t call that skill-based.
 

Calculator

Young
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Posts
20
Its not chanse, you just need to learn the game like in any game. Who admits he sucks?
If this were the case, there would be a deterministic way to win, like in Chess. But there isn´t.

This would really be the game I am looking for. (Best 10% have a guaranteed skill-based win, strategy game played with real money. But, sadly, Entropia isn´t that.)
 

Divinity

Marauder
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Posts
5,132
Location
India
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Divinity Deth Undefined
You have a point. However, they also say it´s skill-based, which is a half-truth at best.

If it were truly skill-based, there would be a skill-based opportunity to win against the house, but it appears there isn´t....

Take Black Jack, which is partially skill-based, which means some players can beat the house. If you are guaranteed to lose (except by successfully exploiting other players), I wouldn´t call that skill-based.
The way i see it , skill would mean both in terms of in game skill as well as some real life ones. The former with looter skills ( hunting) was implemented and based on concensus does seem to effect returns aka u get 98% instead of 95 as you move up ( the numbers are just examples). There however is no *house* as this is not gambling (casino) as casino's don't have markup on your winnings. The real life skill comes into play in your decisions to target markup to get over the 2-3% tt loss which you get.

If you ask me and this is just a perspective of my own, you need to stop thinking of it like a gambling event . As the OP has rightly concluded ( again this is just my opinion and i do agree with him on this) that at best its a randomized decay on your tt long term and not a fair play with just tt returns considered. The fair play is more then fair when you take markup into concern which is not available to gamblers in a casino for example.

If one spends some time understanding how EU works, its really tough to lose money here in any profession ( mining being easiest and hunting probably the toughest relatively) and you also have the open world characteristics of trading etc on top. What one chooses to do and how much time we spend doing that are limitations from the player end and not really that of the platform.

All in all, it is the perspective and approach that matters in my experience out here.

Cheers
 

Westy

Stalker
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Posts
1,846
Location
Australia
Society
Antipodean Army
Avatar Name
Buster Westy Westmoreland
Yeah i was just going to say your math is way off. You need to find 20000 peds worth of markup.:ahh:
Yep and if its only 2% you need then .05 -1% already achieved converting shrap to uni. If your tt ing shrap and buying ammo. then expect to lose.
 

Westy

Stalker
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Posts
1,846
Location
Australia
Society
Antipodean Army
Avatar Name
Buster Westy Westmoreland
Then wait a year or 2 to sell it all to the (500-1k) total players left in EU? Please do not make me laugh.
You did make me laugh. Are you on crack. When you make dumb statements you just dilute everything else you say. There is way more players than that. Never had a problem selling stuff people need within a day or two. For a sensible price it sells in minutes. Now the number of actual players isn't huge. But even very popular games like Battlefield you'll struggle to find a server with many players on it once it ages a little. What is good about EU is its core of I'm guessing 5-10k players always come back for more and that is a base to build on. Get the noobie mix right to retain and invest then you'll build this game up. I guess now that some of the litigations and other stuff are mostly sorted we might start to see some moving forward. The game has been in a hold for some time.
 

ermik

Elite
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Posts
4,808
Location
oil rig
Society
Apoc
Avatar Name
ermik ermik ermik
I think your theory is correct in some aspects and some not. The dice roll is, but youre not doing the dice roll when you loot. The dice roll is done when the long row of multipliers are generated by the system, so when you loot a mob, youre just grabbing the next multiplier in line from a universal/planet/mob/location/spawn/avatar (this is the part thats unclear for me) table in the database with those pregenerated multipliers. Imagine the server load if each loot-event had to roll the dice in realtime? Its enough with having to deal with the realtime cost of tt spent on the loot-event and loot-composition handling.
 

RandyGetz

Dominant
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Posts
377
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Avatar Name
Randy Randy Getz
*whistels* Hey don't mind me i just got a coked-up raging bull that im going to let lose in this fine china-shop. Oh you have never seen me and never will again *slapps bull* PEACE (rofl)
 

Deemer

Provider
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
171
Yes a very interesting topic.. I missed much of the introduction.. sorry.

There is nothing accidental in.. in the computers .. because it is logic.. and.. series.. and.. repetitions.. and... there is nothing natural... everything is an abstraction... and... repetitions!

Even a random generator must have some more complex mechanics in order to look indiscriminate. Because otherwise he just counts this series of digits..

It is completely pointless to follow the big blow, because there is the greatest protection.

This is a game.. albeit with money.. pay attention to the game, not its algorithms. There has nothing hide in the game, if you don't watch the top left corner all the time, if you stop to count the dice, you will see that around you have very logical things. Which are made to tell you something. But while you count the dices, you will miss all important things around you.
 
Top