Loot system cracked!?

mrproper

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How can we tell?

Does anyone have any suggestions on what would constitute a proof concept for testing loot theories?

Suppose I have one, how can I test it is the actual one being used?

Do you know of any loot theories that seem to the right ones, and if so, why do you suggest that?
 

sitram

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What do you mean by cracked? :scratch2:

Getting globals from every mobs means it's cracked? Or hofs? Or making profit from the game?
 

Dr.D.C.

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loot is dynamic, so following the Heisemberg principe if u analyze the loot system than it changes. You cannot take a look at the loot system without avoid that it will change (this because when MA see that someone is gain so much then they came and change the loot system again)

es.
I know that some people for a little while have ....exploit ...the mining system. The exploit worked for a little while than MA fix the issue or changed somenthings.
 

Jehu

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loot is dynamic, so following the Heisemberg principe if u analyze the loot system than it changes. You cannot take a look at the loot system without avoid that it will change (this because when MA see that someone is gain so much then they came and change the loot system again)

Sounds more like Quantum Mechanics and Schrodinger's Cat.

Selling: Omegaton Quantum Loot Observer tt+300kped @ Balcony
 

Nobleone

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From what I can tell.... there are MANY variables to the loot system. You, or someone else may have figured out one or more, but I think it's almost impossible to figure out the entire system. Also, there is the loot "dynamics" so even cracking the system could give you "No Loot" due to the dynamics. This Loot System is quite secure. MindArk knows there's some real genious' out there and they knew that many would try to "crack the code". Therefore, IMO, I believe it's set up so that even if someone DID crack the code... they wouldn't get much better than breaking even on a regular TT value basis.

The closest I have come to "cracking the code" is to check current market value of simple "Uncommon" loots, and hunt the mobs which tend to drop those particular items. And that really has nothing to do with the loot system itself... it's just playing the economy.
 

Killahbee

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whine alot, get alot. that's the system.
so pleaaase give me SGA! :yay:
 

Shadowsong

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...Suppose I have one, how can I test it is the actual one being used?
....

Follow your theory in practise, and if you make awesome piles of steaming loot, your theory is probably correct. ;)


"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practise. In practise, there is."
 

Talania

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My loot theory is that AoW got a second ATH because MA accidently put back the "ATH for AoW" loot codes in the update the day they had their second UBER ATH. Now loot pool is worse then ever so MA can build up the uber loots again.

Grats to AoW btw :wtg:
 

Spawn

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just test it within your own society or on your societies forum.
do not ever mention it here again.. (just pm me)
 
J

JingyiDai

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actualy you can crack the loot system very easy, but none will ever come up except Captain James T Kirk.

I am quite sure, someone like Kirk would have already infiltrated MA/FPC HQ and gathered enough data and tweaked it...

I am quite sure that is how Captain Kirk would have done.

yep folks the loot is really like kobayashi maru

But then again Kirk wont bother to do that.. he will just send Spock and Mind Melt with the loot balancing manager woho


[YOUTUBE]Y6Gp2Ir7n9M[/YOUTUBE]
 

Turnsleft

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From what I can tell.... there are MANY variables to the loot system. You, or someone else may have figured out one or more, but I think it's almost impossible to figure out the entire system. Also, there is the loot "dynamics" so even cracking the system could give you "No Loot" due to the dynamics. This Loot System is quite secure. MindArk knows there's some real genious' out there and they knew that many would try to "crack the code". Therefore, IMO, I believe it's set up so that even if someone DID crack the code... they wouldn't get much better than breaking even on a regular TT value basis.

The closest I have come to "cracking the code" is to check current market value of simple "Uncommon" loots, and hunt the mobs which tend to drop those particular items. And that really has nothing to do with the loot system itself... it's just playing the economy.

I disagree I think the loot system is set in stone, the only variables used are for balancing and high end drops. For sure it has its own algorithm, the unravelling of which is possible but would require time and assistance from the community, therein lies the issue, as soon as it becomes clear we are getting closer to unlocking its secret MA will go all out to change the locks, so to speak ;)
 

davidgr1200

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The best way to test any theory is the falsification process. It is extremely difficult to prove a theory true but a lot easier to prove it false. If you want to test a theory think up some scenarios which would prove it false and try to set up those scenarios. You may not find a theory which works, but you will probably find plenty which do not!
 

Brooklyn

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:scratch2:
Where's Legion when you need him?​
 
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Shadowsong

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Rattex... way ahead of his time ;)
 

CozMoDan

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NO offense to the OP but there is a word for a person who tries to attribute cause and effect or logic to a random occurrence but I can't remember what it is (hope someone knows the word). It is not a derogatory word nor is it meant to be to the OP.
Anyway I do believe there are some parts of the loot system that are not random that does give one an edge on getting loot but the payoff or loot amount is random.
In the final analysis I don't think there is a "Crack" available because of the randomness of the amount of loot one gets.
Peace.
 

chielsen

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You can't crack a random process. Now some things are not random (item drops, certain uber hofs) so with inside information or good guessing you can hunt the right mobs to increase your chance. That's about all you can do.
 

jdegre

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Do you know of any loot theories that seem to the right ones...?

Suppose I have one, ...

doesn't every single participant in EU have one??? and, for every single participant, its own theory is the right one :D

now, seriously, i think that "cracked" might not be the right word. "cracked" implies, imo, that you can abuse and take advantage of it. i think there are very valid theories out there about how loot works, and they are close to impossible to be abused. so, "valid theories", yes... "cracked", no way.
 

waperboy

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I cracked it, but I refrain from using the information out of solidarity towards you all guys :yay:
 

Etopia

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now, seriously, i think that "cracked" might not be the right word. "cracked" implies, imo, that you can abuse and take advantage of it. i think there are very valid theories out there about how loot works, and they are close to impossible to be abused. so, "valid theories", yes... "cracked", no way.

Exemple is when "legion" did abuse the sytem of timer..fact is , there was many player back then who did figure out same steuff as him ( but they was clever enought to STFU) and somehow abuse the system...

MA didnt really change the whole loot , they just did change the spawn system to make it way more complex to figure out the timer...

And even with timer , there is tons of variable that change loot for an avatar...Loot are not linked only to timer and area but to avatar too...
for exemple there is tons of people who ATH or get Uber , when they unlock a skill ( or very close to the unlock)...
It show there is a triger in the skill...
But probably more triger or variable in many other action...

And probably the most safe of all is the "luck" skill...If i where MA to be sure that no one can say my game is a casino and only based on "luck"... i would create a "luck" skill tied to avatar...
That alow MA to control how many "winer" there is game , and so be sure the loot pool stay full...
 

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loot is dynamic, so following the Heisemberg principe if u analyze the loot system than it changes. You cannot take a look at the loot system without avoid that it will change (this because when MA see that someone is gain so much then they came and change the loot system again)

es.
I know that some people for a little while have ....exploit ...the mining system. The exploit worked for a little while than MA fix the issue or changed somenthings.

Agree partially - skilling medical and defense skills with uber faps in the days. Support weps + uber fap on tants was caped quite fast as well. Other examples as well.
 

jdegre

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Exemple is when "legion" did abuse the sytem of timer..

yes, i was aware of that "abuse". the old PE system was much more predictable and "abuse"-able. however, i do think that the current EU is a completely different thing, and i don't think there is currenlty much room for "cracks", honestly.
 

Commodore

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If i where MA to be sure that no one can say my game is a casino and only based on "luck"... i would create a "luck" skill tied to avatar...

Luck skill FTW (at least for MA)

I think this plays a large part in why some of us feel as though we keep dropping the soap in the prison shower.

Almost everyone playing heavily has a scheme, if you don't then you probably aren't quite as active, and we're even less likely to hear about it. Also not having a scheme doesn't disprove any scheme - it can only serve to reinforce the closest fit. As so many people have schemes, then when one gets a nice loot, all of a sudden they have a winning scheme.

Far as I can see it's just seeing stuff in clouds, our brains love matching patterns, give me some white noise and I'll pull out geometric shapes, Sheakspere's works and the face of Mary.

The real issue is that so many people haven't come to terms with the fact it's ok to enjoy spending money playing an online game, without feeling the need to legitamize the activity by concocting systems on a par with religious faith.

As far as the OP question, I think the simplest test is looting until you get a thinly veiled "Your play action is not intended action in Entropia Universe and constitutes abuse" - 'stop ur good loots, or we'll freeze ur assets' message from MA/FPC.

As we all know MA fixes stuff that hurts their wallet, with impressive haste. The real question should be "How many peds would it cost them to fix the flaw in loot I've found', then you can exploit to this point and no further. Of course if you ever did find such a system, you should instead right a small book via PDF or web subscription and allow access when enough people have paid up. Because as we know, theirs an audience of around 700,000 people that might buy such knowledge. ;)
 

mrproper

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The title is intended to draw attention.

I'm merely trying to find out, what would you consider a correct loot theory model, and what I should be doing to declare it proved.

So far, the only proof requested would be:
A. Large profits acquired during tests.
B. Unbalanced system behavior towards my avatar during tests
(like item drops)

Follow your theory in practise, and if you make awesome piles of steaming loot, your theory is probably correct. ;)
So you will validate my theory only if I make lots of money?

just test it within your own society or on your societies forum.
do not ever mention it here again.. (just pm me)
Ok, how would a successful test look like in your opinion?

The best way to test any theory is the falsification process. It is extremely difficult to prove a theory true but a lot easier to prove it false. If you want to test a theory think up some scenarios which would prove it false and try to set up those scenarios. You may not find a theory which works, but you will probably find plenty which do not!
Very good. If a theory is falsifiable, then it can be tested, and held to standards of accuracy. In order to find falsifiable scenarios, does it have to be different for each model, or do you suppose a generic scenario can be used? If so... which one?!

NO offense to the OP but there is a word for a person who tries to attribute cause and effect or logic to a random occurrence but I can't remember what it is (hope someone knows the word).
Atheist? Materialist? Logician? Monist?

You can't crack a random process. Now some things are not random (item drops, certain uber hofs) so with inside information or good guessing you can hunt the right mobs to increase your chance. That's about all you can do.
Your theory is that it's random. However, if we are to analyze any data stream collected from crafting, mining, hunting, sweating, skill increases, damages, etc... we get pseudo-random information. What are the rules and model behind this model? Is it really 100% random?

Exemple is when "legion" did abuse the sytem of timer..fact is , there was many player back then who did figure out same steuff as him ( but they was clever enought to STFU) and somehow abuse the system...

MA didnt really change the whole loot , they just did change the spawn system to make it way more complex to figure out the timer...
And we are now, in 2009, almost 2010, with another system, that could be unraveled. How would you know I found the right model?
 

Shadowsong

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...So you will validate my theory only if I make lots of money?...

Pretty much. If you truly have a handle on the loot system, you should be able to anticipate good loot, and thereby make money.
 

mrproper

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Pretty much. If you truly have a handle on the loot system, you should be able to anticipate good loot, and thereby make money.
What if my model only offers the possibility of getting even, or, losing the least possible amount, comparison against other players that are losing more, even though they do the same things that I do?
 

Dorsai

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Well, if someone has "cracked" the loot system and wished to prove it, it's easy to prove (if not to crack!)

Form a team, tell those in the team to follow you & watch you hunt & see the loot in the chat, and go hunting.

If you have cracked it they will see what you kill, and see what you loot.

So if for example I am killing snabs with an opalo (what, say 3 shots each, 3 pecs a kill?) the team members will see an average loot well over 3 pecs.
... snab, 1 ped, snab, 1 ped, snab 1 ped, etc....
 

Simon God

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Find an avatar with similar skills as yours.

Use same gear and weapons.

Hunt the same mob.

You use your system.

Other guy just hunt as he usually does.

Disregard uberloots. (unless your system predicts uberloots)

Do this for 4-500 hours and see what the difference will be.


Don't know if this would mean something in reality, but it's a kinda good measurement in my eyes if you do the same thing, with the same gear and skills, yet you have a lot better result then the other guy.

I really hope someone does crack the loot system (and tells me how to crack it ;)).


Would your crack work with a brand new avatar?
 

Mischief

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Have an idea. Working accordingly. Enough said.

Apart from this little hint:

PED cycled have something to do with it... ;)
 
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