Question: Loot waves, are they good or bad?

Gopher

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Just gonna ask this since I have been thinking about this for a while, and want to get others opinions. Do you think loot waves are good or bad for the game? Would the game be better off with a set or average % to loot stuff, or is it fine with the 0-very low chance of looting something off-wave but higher % on-wave? IMO, I think loot waves aren't good, and they don't feel good as well. Different items should be able to be looted at any time without having to wait for a wave. This especially hurts the players that don't have a lot of time to play this game, waiting/farming for waves to get items that instead should be able to be looted at any time. I think it would feel better if wave stuff was able to be looted randomly since it would be unpredictable and provide a chance for all people to get the items, no matter how much time they can play. No, not having waves wouldn't affect MU that much if MA balances loot fine. I know the people that farm waves will have a bias, but try to think for all players, and the game itself. Please try not to start a war in the comments, for all of our sakes.
 
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Katie Chalmers

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Kinda depends on the timeframe of the wave. If its on a daily cycle then that is extremely bad as it gives a huge prejudice against players in non compatible time zones. Something like 30m-1hr cycle is ok although I still would rather zero waves at all. Then people can't game the system. its fair for everybody.
 

Deemer

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Some time ago, I asked for telescopes to track astronomy in the game, but I don't think they would add new astronomy skills, or telescopes to better navigate the phrase that "Entropia has always rewarded personal skills and knowledge."

If this is a game with sinusoids... waves... and all kinds of curves and straight lines, they must provide a tool in the game, through which even a player who does not have Program skills with which to extract information from the "chat.log", to have the opportunity for equality.

I will soon make 1000 ignored players, which I call earth pirates... there are space pirates, so I call them earth pirates... they jump from one hunting ground to another, and their hunting is limited to 10-20 mobs, but only where there are "green dots on their radar"... and their goal is "Lucky loot"... nonsense... their only goal is the pool of the one trying to play... and that's 99% of the players here. Therefore complete removal of these waves will be better.
 

SoberPhil

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That's a good question. I'd say that the wave system is smart, entertaining and fair IF it weren't for BOTTERS, to whom the current system provides a clear advantage over those who aren't disabled and are able to use a mouse and keyboard with their hands. both hands, and are willing to actually play the game like any other game.

Sadly, there's no solution to this, they can change the wave system somehow yet botters will still have a massive advantage at least in hunting, and they cannot make it completely random for several reasons. I would just like to add that botters are treated as cheaters and banned in any respectable game even in indie MMOs, maybe MA will step up one day, maybe after UE5. One can hope.
 

mastermesh

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They aren't gonna stop botters because they don't care...
I can watch an avatar running around clearly F spam auto hunting. Is it a macro? Is it a third party software? Is it a person watching a movie and not looking at the screen? Do they have a complex series of pulleys tapping his keyboard? I do not know, and thus, will likely do nothing

As for waves, it's not good or bad. It just is the way the system works at the moment. It may change eventually or not. Yes, it's annoying that some do exploit by timing waves, botting, etc. but Mindark doesn't care so why should we. Enjoy it or don't. There are much better games out there.
 

Art Jennifer

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Kinda depends on the timeframe of the wave. If its on a daily cycle then that is extremely bad as it gives a huge prejudice against players in non compatible time zones. Something like 30m-1hr cycle is ok although I still would rather zero waves at all. Then people can't game the system. its fair for everybody.

I agree with this.

I play such random times. E.g. one day I could play 4hours straight. Another I would do 30mins here, 1 hour later, 30 mins and then I often don't play at all for 3-4 days in a row.

I've never noticed a negative return because of this play style. Average TT return of 95%+ so.... Some how the system must work it out....

"Tin Foil Hat" *Cough* Personal lootpools *Cough* "Remove Hat"
 

Vadio

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I know .. waves need exist because mindark is lazy to fixing this game core

Yes we talk about economy... and link between hunt - mining - craft

I hate waves... its control you gameplay time... its damm boring gameplay with 5min of good loot and another 55min with low mu / no loot (Just remind sometimes waves extend up 20min duration and Cooldown can be 2h or 3h in worst days)
if you realy want min/max any kind profit you need sit down 55min and only play in this 5min

Maybe mindark not realize that genereta massive cut off in decay and per said lost of revenue
i shock if mindark not yet did internal graph/plot about this correlation

I still believe in Skill Game mix between Real Skills , and Numbers Skills(aka in game) and bit RNG
Like D&D(can cite others but its going out this topic) With actual Wave System , whole skills turned to oblivion... dont matter how skilled you are you going get shit if you go wrong timing... you wonder why? invest? time . money to acquire not only skills itself but gear? if you not play exact timing

and Finaly....
Util mindark have balls enough to fix Economy of game ,. waves going still exist , going still painfull and not fair solution
and not much else us can do , embrace , or leave , or play(if you not care profit or good items)

https://startraders.fandom.com/wiki/Skill_Tests & https://startraders.fandom.com/wiki/Dice_Mechanics
 
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TheOneOmega

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There are a few posts in a similar vein here that I could quote, but I think this one is concise and representative of the others.
Kinda depends on the timeframe of the wave. If its on a daily cycle then that is extremely bad as it gives a huge prejudice against players in non compatible time zones. Something like 30m-1hr cycle is ok although I still would rather zero waves at all. Then people can't game the system. its fair for everybody.
I think we should strongly reconsider the thought that it's unfair for people to be able to game the system, because, well, the system just is a game! Okay, perhaps there's a subtle connotation shift between those two uses of the term "game," but the deeper point is that strategic elements, when implemented well, are the backbone of sound game design. I think this post is spot on to identify daily cycles as an example of poor implementation; granting an arbitrary advantage based on a player's time zone is undesirable. However, granting an advantage based on a player's ability to learn and strategize around a game's elements is a major game design goal, and results in a much richer entertainment product for everyone in the long run. Such an advantage is fair in the sense that everyone has the capacity to learn and participate in that strategic process.

With that said, I'm not married to loot waves. They're just one possible implementation of such a strategic element, and maybe not even a very interesting one. My main ask here is not that we necessarily have to love loot waves, but that if we don't, we at least consider modifications or replacements for the mechanic that would result in an overall strategically richer loot mechanic, rather than getting distracted by the false dichotomy of "Loot Waves VS Nothing" and flattening the system into an agency-irrelevant RNG-fest. Any casino can provide the agency-irrelevant RNG-fest experience for folks who prefer it, or whose notion of fairness is so restrictive that 90+% of games fail to meet the threshold. As for EU, I say we strive to keep some game in our game! (Yes, it's another equivocation on "game")
 

Katie Chalmers

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There are a few posts in a similar vein here that I could quote, but I think this one is concise and representative of the others.

I think we should strongly reconsider the thought that it's unfair for people to be able to game the system, because, well, the system just is a game! Okay, perhaps there's a subtle connotation shift between those two uses of the term "game," but the deeper point is that strategic elements, when implemented well, are the backbone of sound game design. I think this post is spot on to identify daily cycles as an example of poor implementation; granting an arbitrary advantage based on a player's time zone is undesirable. However, granting an advantage based on a player's ability to learn and strategize around a game's elements is a major game design goal, and results in a much richer entertainment product for everyone in the long run. Such an advantage is fair in the sense that everyone has the capacity to learn and participate in that strategic process.

With that said, I'm not married to loot waves. They're just one possible implementation of such a strategic element, and maybe not even a very interesting one. My main ask here is not that we necessarily have to love loot waves, but that if we don't, we at least consider modifications or replacements for the mechanic that would result in an overall strategically richer loot mechanic, rather than getting distracted by the false dichotomy of "Loot Waves VS Nothing" and flattening the system into an agency-irrelevant RNG-fest. Any casino can provide the agency-irrelevant RNG-fest experience for folks who prefer it, or whose notion of fairness is so restrictive that 90+% of games fail to meet the threshold. As for EU, I say we strive to keep some game in our game! (Yes, it's another equivocation on "game")
Thank you for picking my post for your argument, I feel special :D.

You bring up a good point, but maybe our definition of "gaming the system" is a little different. To me, the whole loot wave thing works off of an unintentional exploitation of the loot cycle, its not an official game strategy backed by in-game mechanics. If the rare loots were awarded under some skill or score based system (systems that we don't have), then it would be different and I would have no problem.
 
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I think they good ... havent done the math but they feel kinde of not so costly
 
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