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Lose 50k ped answer ma:

Negative markup spent vs markup received ratio - thats what happened. The results are disastrous in the long run.
 
ZAN ZAN said:
Negative markup spent vs markup received ratio - thats what happened. The results are disastrous in the long run.
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I.e buying lvl 13s at ah price and mining whole day on Hell/Foma with bad finder can kill 50k peds in two days.

2:damsel: That's math, you were wondering..
 
the 90% return is BULLSHIT ! i'm under 70% and have very low hit rate. even huge MU is not enough.
Never ask MA why, they coppy/paste some blabla.

"dynamic, backback soon or later or never"

Or players " well bad loot is your fault, LOLOL u can"t be millionare brahXD Ok4y dudette, YOLO just pay"

Serious note : apply for everything, spend low MU, get huge MU. but if MA don't want you profiting, you won't.
and thats why i stopped hunting atm, oil @101% wut ?
 
costica bacauan said:
I go for exemple to bay 1 lvl 8 and 1 lvl 9 .. and i have loot back 1 global 56 ped .. u think this is 50%. anadar round 2 amp lvl 5 .heav loot 2 global (56..51ped)and 1 XII this is 50%
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Where are you mining anyways? .. Bay?.. what?

Anyway, so, everybody's talking about math but nobody's doing it much. Here's plain math for you all:

Let's consider he used lvl 9 amps for a 'worst case scenario'.

Right now in auction, lowest markup is 135.38, so i'll take 135% - thats 260 PED TT + 91 PED MU.
One amp run is 51 drops: 351 + 51 = 402 PED, on an F105 thats around 1 ped decay aswell. You'll have atleast another 4-5 PED general expenses including extractor decay - total 408 PED average expense per finder burned with markup.

Taking off 91 PED of markup and adding in the minimal TT of 6 PED which you will get back, we have a TT expense of 323 PED.

Now for the 'cases' we're imagining.
1: Game always returns 90% TT mid-long term = 290 PED TT return per run. Kick in some random avg markup of, say, 110% = 319 PED returned. Total PED lost with markup: 408-319= -88 PED.
If you burn 5 amps per day avg -441 PED per day. Avg -13.2k PED per month. 4 Months to lose 50k PED.

2. Game returns 95% TT, same maths as the above. -10.5k PED per month. ~5 Months to lose 50k PED.

3. Same as case 1 but you got ~ 50k ped in 'unusually' big hof/finds in addition to the regular 90% TT return: ~9 months to lose 50k PED.

Finally, how much long-term TT return is required to break even with level 9 amps with the stats above? Cost per amp is, again, 408 PED. For avg. return markup being 110%, you need around 370 PED return per amp or 114.5% return TT. Not gonna happen in the long-term.

There you go. Maths. So if he mined with level 9 amps, -50k PED is possible within half a year even if he had hits as big as 10k ped. If he mined with level 8 amps, doing all the (about) same maths as above and 90% TT return, thats 7 to 8 months to lose 50k ped without unusually big hofs/finds. Enought maths for me.
 
Thedarksnw said:
70% since mining update VU?
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no, since mod loot i remember having a decent hit rate and having 90% to 95% TT return every 1000 drop.
During 1 or 2 month. Actualy not, i can have 20 NRF in a row, even if i change area. But still, my claim size is always the same like everyone, exept if global or good claim ( always global i use D-class @113% )

I feel like old mining system but without global.... rare these days, can't imagine without amp.

In or out of pvp4 is the same, so dosnt matter.

Edit : my average number of claim with a D-class is 7 claim. more happen, but less also happen.
 
(TT)100% - (Roughly cost per cycle)~10% + MU = Return +/-

Adjust TT % according to expenditure and MU to your returned MU %. If this equation is in the red then you need to adjust either your spending or your MU return(change area).

To the people saying they have a low tt return (60% or so) i'm having a hard time taking you seriously because your either mining unamped and lying or doing way to few drops to prove anything or you are dropping amps on the larger side but you are dropping just a few drops thus not letting the variance run its course.

I generally don't keep logs of my mining anymore as it makes little or no difference to me in most cases however the last log i kept which where almost 10,000 unamped double drops of ores/enmats with F-105 over the course of a month came out to about 93% tt return after all costs where included(vehicle fuel etc). Mind you this is was unamped without any hofs and almost no globals so there isen't any anomalities to mess up the results.

To relate this to this post, as you lost 50,000 and that specific number is the issue i presume that was pretty much your entire bank roll thus i can assume you dropped alot of amps in each session(or atleast hope so). That would mean that as others have said you simply failed to adjust your spent % to the mu % coming in. Sad to see that you lost that much but it was inevitable with those amps.

Best regards
Zweshi
 
costica bacauan said:
I go for exemple to bay 1 lvl 8 and 1 lvl 9 .. and i have loot back 1 global 56 ped .. u think this is 50%. anadar round 2 amp lvl 5 .heav loot 2 global (56..51ped)and 1 XII this is 50%
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Yeah, so it was your fault.
Don't put all your eggs into one basket.
And don't spend more markup than you earn.
 
Seems to me that you guys have alot of time to spend when you should be mining...

...wait a sec...

:rolleyes:
 
When will people learn that Casino Entropia is gone. And we are now going into a very controlled loot system.

No more 9 avas will lose and 1 ava will get the "big prize". No more I killed a creature / found a claim / crafted a item and could withdraw a piece of the loot and still have peds to play for.

"More stable return". meh.
 
Hope Mindark official see this thread and return you some peds. Seen some cases where they adjusted loot to avatars. GL
 
narcotic said:
Hope Mindark official see this thread and return you some peds. Seen some cases where they adjusted loot to avatars. GL
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:D ?
What cases?
And why would mindark give money to someone that willingly gave it to other players (as markup)?
 
TheLastKnight said:
However, if you take the premise that the 90% involves EVERYONE, then it would be easy to assume that if "Strash" is making money, and all the other smart and dedicated miners are making money, then the difference has to come from somewhere. Perhaps this poor chap is helping fund the profit makers?

I believe that the amount of ped lost is exaggerated also, but I also believe that there is a line of truth to it, and that he has indeed lost a lot of ped.

Just wanted to poke a hole at the "personal loot" and "90% return" theory.
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This post shows exactly why some people make ped or are able to play within their limits...whatever they decide they are. And many people grasp at straws or make something up they consider to be facts.

I am not picking on you in particular, just the thought process.

Most people will say "I lost XXX". No info on tt or mu returns over time. No charts of TT & MU return over 100, 250 or 500 runs using the same gear. Basically no info other than "I ran around and dropped probes and I lost X ped so my opinion must be true".

I know noobs that are very successful. They don't play big, they do the missions, they learn the game, they calculate their returns. Hard work = success in many instances.
 
You only lose as much as you are willing to lose.
Dont play with money you dont want to lose.
 
Strangelove said:
This post shows exactly why some people make ped or are able to play within their limits...whatever they decide they are. And many people grasp at straws or make something up they consider to be facts.

I am not picking on you in particular, just the thought process.

Most people will say "I lost XXX". No info on tt or mu returns over time. No charts of TT & MU return over 100, 250 or 500 runs using the same gear. Basically no info other than "I ran around and dropped probes and I lost X ped so my opinion must be true".

I know noobs that are very successful. They don't play big, they do the missions, they learn the game, they calculate their returns. Hard work = success in many instances.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're referring to in my post, it's only half of the point I was trying to make.

What I'm trying to point out is that no matter how you try to present the "90%" formula, whenever someone pokes a hole in it, there's always going to be an explanation...always an exception. For example, if I go out and hunt, and hunt, and hunt, and my returns after 10 hunts turn out to be 70% tt return, then my sample is too small. If I did 1,000 hunts and came back with 70% return, then my gear is wrong, or my mob is wrong. There will always be a reason why my results, or anyone else's results that don't match the "formula", is wrong. You can make the same argument for mining also. If the results are less than 90% in the "long" run, this theory would assume that a person is "due" eventually. Does this apply to only unamped?

Again, poking a hole at the personal loot theory. I believe that this is the reason people tend to gamble in the game and lose their asses, it's because this theory leads you to believe that you're "due" something in the long run. If someone goes out and constantly gets less than 90% return, then eventually they're going to get compensated, isn't that the whole premise behind 90%? If I keep grinding at an average of 70% returns in the "long" run, would you argue that I'm due something big to even it out? Or that I need to grind another 5 years to bring that average back up to 90%?
 
TheLastKnight said:
I don't know what you're referring to in my post, it's only half of the point I was trying to make.

What I'm trying to point out is that no matter how you try to present the "90%" formula, whenever someone pokes a hole in it, there's always going to be an explanation...always an exception. For example, if I go out and hunt, and hunt, and hunt, and my returns after 10 hunts turn out to be 70% tt return, then my sample is too small. If I did 1,000 hunts and came back with 70% return, then my gear is wrong, or my mob is wrong. There will always be a reason why my results, or anyone else's results that don't match the "formula", is wrong. You can make the same argument for mining also. If the results are less than 90% in the "long" run, this theory would assume that a person is "due" eventually. Does this apply to only unamped?

Again, poking a hole at the personal loot theory. I believe that this is the reason people tend to gamble in the game and lose their asses, it's because this theory leads you to believe that you're "due" something in the long run. If someone goes out and constantly gets less than 90% return, then eventually they're going to get compensated, isn't that the whole premise behind 90%? If I keep grinding at an average of 70% returns in the "long" run, would you argue that I'm due something big to even it out? Or that I need to grind another 5 years to bring that average back up to 90%?
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Well, I went out and lost prolly about 70k on troxes under the old system when they were hitting 20k hofs every week....but I hit 40k & 25k mining hofs....so in that regard I made the ped back...and more if you consider MU.

My point is that people need to develop their own system for tracking their own loot. I keep track of my mining runs....and can tell you my TT and MU returns after every drop. As well as my returns over the past XXX number of runs. And my TT and MU returns over the past set of 15 groups of 100 runs. The point is that people need to find a way to track their own loot and see if their returns make EU an enjoyable or painful experience. Perhaps WoW is a better choice for them.

As for personal returns, mining has always been good to me under every loot system. But I spend a fair amount of time tracking my returns and experimenting with gear. At times, I will use one set of gear over a few months to see if my returns are consistent (they are) and see it I can tweak my setup to increase my returns. And compare my present returns with X, Y, Z gear to a previous loot system, set of locations, or how I did when I was 10 levels lower in Prosp, Survey.

That said, perhaps there are individual factors such as the year your Ava spawned, random DNA characteristics and such that make certain activities more suited for certain avatars. I don't know. What I do know is that successful people know their gear, know their returns and know their limits. That means studying the game until they get it. Some people get it right off the bat, some people never will. For most, it's a matter of how much they are willing to invest in figuring it out.

In EU, as in real life, most people seem to filter the "facts" to suit their opinions. The fact is I suck at hunting...always have....so I don't do it.

CO
 
Strangelove said:
That said, perhaps there are individual factors such as the year your Ava spawned, random DNA characteristics and such that make certain activities more suited for certain avatars. I don't know. What I do know is that successful people know their gear, know their returns and know their limits. That means studying the game until they get it. Some people get it right off the bat, some people never will. For most, it's a matter of how much they are willing to invest in figuring it out.

In EU, as in real life, most people seem to filter the "facts" to suit their opinions. The fact is I suck at hunting...always have....so I don't do it.

CO
Click to expand...

BINGO!

Agreed, there are definitely other factors to consider that contribute to the whole equation. Like you, I don't know what they are, but I do agree that each avatar has a different experience, and I believe it's designed that way for a purpose. I haven't had much luck in the game, but I enjoy it and it's nice to hit a good run once in a while. But my friend who joined the game recently (on his second year here, I've been here for 5), has surpassed me in all professions, and has sick luck on the crafting machine. Hell, he's even hit an ATH in hunting, well beyond what he's put into the game. Not to say hasn't had a ton of crap runs, but overall, his avatar compared to mine is a golden goose that craps golden eggs.

There's more to consider than just simple "long term 90%", and as you said, each person should find what works for them and enjoy it.
 
SSN said:
no, since mod loot i remember having a decent hit rate and having 90% to 95% TT return every 1000 drop.
During 1 or 2 month. Actualy not, i can have 20 NRF in a row, even if i change area. But still, my claim size is always the same like everyone, exept if global or good claim ( always global i use D-class @113% )

I feel like old mining system but without global.... rare these days, can't imagine without amp.

In or out of pvp4 is the same, so dosnt matter.

Edit : my average number of claim with a D-class is 7 claim. more happen, but less also happen.
Click to expand...


See there's the problem already :)

While unamped, you need 110% average MU from ores to break even, You use a AMP that costs 113% MU. Since you get 90% TT returns, you need an average of 123% MU ores to break even on a long term :)

If you can't keep at that MU, then you will see your PED's go slowly :) Also depends on you bankroll, if you only have 1k PED's, you wont get anywhere far :)


=========
Also, as for the OP,

50k loss is hard to believe really, unless he bought 90 lv13 amps, stood still and dropped all of them on auto-use :)
 
Dear MA

I lost 50k ped at the local bar this week, please refund my peds,
I was really really responsible and only wrecked one car, still, I should see a 90% return.

Thanks,
super careful drinking guy.
 
narcotic said:
Hope Mindark official see this thread and return you some peds. Seen some cases where they adjusted loot to avatars. GL
Click to expand...

pic or didn't happen! :wise:


P.S. narcotics are bad (because they are expensive)


J.
 
My advice is don't play no more...stay frozen in deep deep space...At least thats what i did...

 
Guarana said:
When will people learn that Casino Entropia is gone. And we are now going into a very controlled loot system.

No more 9 avas will lose and 1 ava will get the "big prize". No more I killed a creature / found a claim / crafted a item and could withdraw a piece of the loot and still have peds to play for.

"More stable return". meh.
Click to expand...

why i still see same faces on hunt hof list while im blasting thousands of peds per day to hunting... like u said casino entropia is gone means i will never ever get my money back.. is that good? maybe to ppl who havent lost 5 digit $ sums to the game..
 
xantok said:
This is a new miner. it even says so at he beginning of the log. Unfortunately, it kinda dies out rather then keep going but its an idea of what a new player can do with information.


http://arkadiaforum.com/showthread.php?4664-Zylstra-mining-log
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Pre-changes.
And it didn't take long for that "new miner" to lose the rose-tinted glasses, now did it? 14 runs on Arkadia was enough for him to "rage quit".
Regardless, your link doesn't apply as it's the old system.

run 14:

ped out: 150
ped in (tt): 99.56
average markup: 116%
decay: 9
run +/-: -43.51
total +/-: 301.96

notes: come on MA seriously? this is loss number 4 in a row and all of the losses have been 35 ped + and im also NEVER hittign markup. in an area with 3 good markup enmats i hei the 1 that isnt for all my claims. im not liking this mining now. i guess i can try 1 more run later today before rage quitting EU for a while
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Last edited:
lmao to lost #4 .....
i went to -9k +
really?

come on get your head on straight and look

he didn't rage quit.
 
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tyk said:
why i still see same faces on hunt hof list while im blasting thousands of peds per day to hunting... like u said casino entropia is gone means i will never ever get my money back.. is that good? maybe to ppl who havent lost 5 digit $ sums to the game..
Click to expand...

Howabout changing gameplay in that case? Hunt your mob that are skilled for and that aren´t that costy... :)
 
im fairly certain that avatar didn't quit, it looks like the player moved to Rocktropia. I think when the log ends was when the markup on ark when to shit. Im not a serious miner so i dont know for sure, but im sure Strash could answer that for me
 
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