MA or FPC Half Year Financial Results for 2010 ?

It's not wordgames, you're putting on the same level two completely different terms: "spending" and "investing".

It is true that you are able to "pull out" cash from this particular RCE game, but looking at the agreements made between User and MindArk, you do not EVER invest in anything. You just hand over your money to another party, in exchange for a virtual currency. A virtual currency that allows you to purchase virtual objects of which you will never have legal ownership of.

It's not wordgames. It's facts....

Is that right? Facts eh?
showimage.php

Have a look HERE (until they fix the forum)

It's on this page, in case you're wondering: http://account.entropiauniverse.com/account/

It says: "Deposits

Think Future - Invest in your Avatar!

Choose from a range of deposit options.""


So... do you see what I'm seeing? Care to comment on this one?
 
Is that right? Facts eh?
showimage.php

Have a look HERE (until they fix the forum)

It's on this page, in case you're wondering: http://account.entropiauniverse.com/account/

It says: "Deposits

Think Future - Invest in your Avatar!

Choose from a range of deposit options.""


So... do you see what I'm seeing? Care to comment on this one?

It's called advertising/propaganda.

So yes, I'm still citing facts.

I could quote the EULA, you just quoted a phrase on a website intentionally placed to lure new clients into Calypso.

I have a feeling people might think I am on a personal quest of convincing others of my point of view, just to set things straight, I initially just wanted to respond to Ajack's post and try to explain why (in my opinion) many other users are not concerned about MindArk's financial statements. ;)
 
It's called advertising/propaganda.

So yes, I'm still citing facts.

I could quote the EULA, you just quoted a phrase on a website intentionally placed to lure new clients into Calypso.

I have a feeling people might think I am on a personal quest of convincing others of my point of view, just to set things straight, I initially just wanted to respond to Ajack's post and try to explain why (in my opinion) many other users are not concerned about MindArk's financial statements. ;)

I agree with you that some people don't need to care, those who mainly just play for fun and don't care about the future "value" of the avatar. But for those who see some kind of value in the avatar, they care. I think those who have land, shops, astroids and space stations care very much :). But for the player that just see the game just like a ordinary computer game, yes they don't need to care much about MA.
 
It's called advertising/propaganda.

So yes, I'm still citing facts.

I could quote the EULA, you just quoted a phrase on a website intentionally placed to lure new clients into Calypso.

I have a feeling people might think I am on a personal quest of convincing others of my point of view, just to set things straight, I initially just wanted to respond to Ajack's post and try to explain why (in my opinion) many other users are not concerned about MindArk's financial statements. ;)

I see; so "advertising/propaganda" coming from the manufacturer is not fact? I could argue the same thing: EULA can say whatever... it doesn't make a difference in changing reality. After all, "even if it's written, doesn't make it so".

I agree that MA doesn't have to post anything about financials; I agree that many don't care... that's OK too, you don't have to explain us that one :).
However, when you try to "set things straight" by telling us that we shouldn't care... that changes things a little bit, especially when trying to interpret everything in your favour, and trying to impose it on others.

No question that you are entitled to your opinion; your problem is believing that this is "fact"; it's not.

My issue with MA not posting the financial results (which I happen to think they will come up with it eventually) is that they need extra time to post them. We know the financial statements must be ready at a certain date, unless you want the government knocking on your door (or on your nuts :nutkick:); why not post them right away?

In any case, I don't have all the details, so I cannot say this is a fact; it's just my opinion at this point.
 
I see; so "advertising/propaganda" coming from the manufacturer is not fact? I could argue the same thing: EULA can say whatever... it doesn't make a difference in changing reality. After all, "even if it's written, doesn't make it so".

Let's make this extremely clear, definitions of advertising, propaganda and End User License Agreement :

Advertising is a form of communication intended to persuade an audience (viewers, readers or listeners) to take some action.

Propaganda is a form of communication aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience.

End User License Agreement - A software license agreement is a contract between the "licensor" and purchaser of the right to use software

Ads and Propaganda are there to pursuade people into becoming customers and depositers, while the EULA is a written agreement between two parties.

I cannot make it any clealer than this.

I agree that MA doesn't have to post anything about financials; I agree that many don't care... that's OK too, you don't have to explain us that one :).
However, when you try to "set things straight" by telling us that we shouldn't care... that changes things a little bit, especially when trying to interpret everything in your favour, and trying to impose it on others.

There is nothing to interpret. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone. Are you feeling opressed and cornered? Should I write in a smaller font? Perhaps in a less intimidating and peaceful colour?

If you feel I have imposed my point of view on you, you obviously don't debate much with others.

No question that you are entitled to your opinion; your problem is believing that this is "fact"; it's not.

I stated depositing does not equal investing. Again, it's a fact. If it's not quite clear to you why I consider it to be so, read previous posts.


My issue with MA not posting the financial results (which I happen to think they will come up with it eventually) is that they need extra time to post them. We know the financial statements must be ready at a certain date, unless you want the government knocking on your door (or on your nuts :nutkick:); why not post them right away?

In any case, I don't have all the details, so I cannot say this is a fact; it's just my opinion at this point.

For more details, you could always contact support or Hanne or MA directly.

On the other hand, I still don't see your opinion, just an attempt to prove that I'm a ruthless forum troll.

[/OT] @MindArk release the financial statement already, you can do it!
 
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fo0d and jjmatrix, could you please take this in PMs instead?

we all know your standpoints very clear by now, and keep it the thread to what AJack10600 wanted to know
 
We'll see more financial statements if they start doing well again, companies become very insular when things aren't going their way and very out going when they do. At the moment MA has closed ranks and keeping things very quiet. No quarterly reports for quite a while and the end of year report was late.

In the past we've had the financial reports released in english but last year it was in swedish only. We found out about the sale of Calypso not direct from them but in a short statement within the report that an unknown company, to the players, had signed an agreement to buy the rights. A company which we still don't know the name of even though the time limit for the first payment has passed and even FPC won't tell us.
 
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Firstly, my apologies to AJack (and to jenny ferr as well)... I didn't mean to hijack this thread; I think another thread (eventually with a poll) would make more sense.

Sorry everyone; over and out.
 
Guys let's not get crazy about definitions here...

We all agree that some people loot at what they do in EU as "investments" others as "deposits" whatever...

If MA goes bust, all is gone, if they don't, we can sell and withdraw. That in itself is reason to have an interest in the Financials of MA and FPC...

And quite frankly, I would love to hear a comment from the Community Manager on the Financial Aspect of FPC or MA because as I have explained, if FPC are marketing the RCE experience as they do, then we as customers and ultimately "investors" have a right to know how the company is doing.

I do not understand why the financial statements are only published in swedish and I do not understand why the half year report is not ready at some point...

Thx for the info on the Extraordinary Shareholder meeting. This was expected and announced by Timkrans. We know they have a cash flow issue looking at the previous Financial Statements, so this is supposed to bridge the hole for now.
Even more so, it is interesting to know how MA and FPC are doing now and what the outlook is.

Care to comment Hanne, Marco or maybe Mr Timkrans ?
 
It's called advertising/propaganda.

So yes, I'm still citing facts.

I could quote the EULA, you just quoted a phrase on a website intentionally placed to lure new clients into Calypso.

I have a feeling people might think I am on a personal quest of convincing others of my point of view, just to set things straight, I initially just wanted to respond to Ajack's post and try to explain why (in my opinion) many other users are not concerned about MindArk's financial statements. ;)

Are you freakin kidding me??? Does MA's financials not have the direct correlation between the amount of money that is being tossed around in Entropia and the amount of profit that they make through (taxing deposits/withdrawals and amount of decay and other taxes) (which is turn shows how much they are making as a company)? Does this not give us a great understanding of exactly how stable they are as a company that hold a controlling interest in how stable our ingame economy is (determined partially by how many people are invested and by how much they are still investing)? How can you say many other users are not concerned about MindArk's financial statements.. This stuff is definitely concerning.

Feels to me like ignorance is bliss to some. Does MindArk not determine whether or not this economy even exists? Any action they make can possibly have a major bearing on the way that the economy reacts in this game. I would hope that if you had money "invested" that you would at least care a little about what can impact that "investment."
 
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Are you freakin kidding me??? Does MA's financials not have the direct correlation between the amount of money that is being tossed around in Entropia and the amount of profit that they make through (taxing deposits/withdrawals and amount of decay and other taxes) (which is turn shows how much they are making as a company)? Does this not give us a great understanding of exactly how stable they are as a company that hold a controlling interest in how stable our ingame economy is (determined partially by how many people are invested and by how much they are still investing)? How can you say many other users are not concerned about MindArk's financial statements.. This stuff is definitely concerning.

Financial statements show a trend. They cannot be interpreted as reliable data for critical decisions. But I already went through this over and over and don't intend in hijacking the original thread any longer.

Feels to me like ignorance is bliss to some.

Absolutely, so is impoliteness.
 
Financial statements show a trend. They cannot be interpreted as reliable data for critical decisions. But I already went through this over and over and don't intend in hijacking the original thread any longer.

????

Then what is reliable data for critical decisions ? You amaze me ... I am worried if you really have to work with Financial Statements sometimes...



Back on Topic...

Hanne, Marco or maybe Mr Timkrans ? :rolleyes:
 
????

Then what is reliable data for critical decisions ? You amaze me ... I am worried if you really have to work with Financial Statements sometimes...



Back on Topic...

Hanne, Marco or maybe Mr Timkrans ? :rolleyes:

I am pretty sure FPC will not make a half year report, and maybe not MA either this year. Only companies with shares that are trading on a stock market is required to do so.
 
Funny to see, how stubborn people can be...
Credit to Food for staying calm while replying those "smart" comments.
 
Funny to see, how stubborn people can be...
Credit to Food for staying calm while replying those "smart" comments.

well he is wrong :rolleyes:
but i think we have talked enough about of that....:p
 
So, MA are into minus figures for the first half of this year??

if my math and sek to usd conversion was correct just over 2 million usd lost
 
Just read the preamble. Not good reading, but some hope for MA when FPC start paying for Calypso.
 
Well they earned less within this time but it seems that they hired 15 new people, that of course is only a small impact (is it?) but its one aswell, so keep that in mind :p
 
So what will this years Christmas sale be? :D

The report is pretty negative, and I have a feeling that this is really a crucial period for EU. If they can make it through this though times, the future looks bright.
I think the progress of the game is pretty ok, and they should be able to attract more and more players now :)
 
Ok... so we read the report and can conclude that.....

1.) MindArk is going down like a Prom Queen in a parking lot.

2.) There aren't enough reserved funds to cover the withdrawl if Star were to sell out and cash out.


:broke:

Menace
 
Well they earned less within this time

Having LOST 23 million SEK, I'd think calling it "earned less" qualifies for a top-10 for the contest "understatement of the year". :)

but it seems that they hired 15 new people, that of course is only a small impact (is it?)

Considering an employee costs at least one million SEK/year, we're talking about 7.5 million out of those 23 million losses due to new employees. I personally wouldn't call 30% of any loss a small impact.

Seriously, what kind of CEO or board would allow hire more people that do no noticable work for the customers (us) during such a huge loss period? Furthermore, during a period where they publically state they have done no work at all to improve the platform due to the economical situation.
 
2.) There aren't enough reserved funds to cover the withdrawl if Star were to sell out and cash out.

Actually, from my reading of the data they do have those funds. They have 63 million SEK to cover customers bailing out - but that's also exactly what they have got. Almost not a penny more.

What suprised me a little was that the amount was so small. Only 63 million SEK? Perhaps that's due to them having put the "we only cover last 6 months deposits" into the "EULA" or whatever (and think it's binding)?
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong? Perhaps the moon really is made out of Hammond?
 
It is a private company... not publicly traded...which gives them the right to publish their earnings or not... atleast that is how it works in america and many other countries
 
It is a private company... not publicly traded...which gives them the right to publish their earnings or not... atleast that is how it works in america and many other countries

That's effectively how it works in sweden too.
 
Read this financial Report Food and then tell me if this is telling me about the health of the company or not...

The total unconsumed user Holdings of the company exceed it's total Equity Value... ROFL... and that's just "DEPOSITS"...
But I know.. this tells me nothing about the state of the company... ;)

No more comment.


@ all others,

Nice to see that MA have published this. I would love to see a Fin Report for FPC separately as well though (I know the FPC numers are in the Group numbers and can be computed out of the total but I don't know what proportion Rocktropia holds or how it's accounted for). I am really interested to know where these funds for MA to buy the rights are coming from.

I will post my Analysis of the fin report in a separate thread.
 
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Looking forward your statement, thanks for your work.
 
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