MA to implement wills/testaments

Opus3000

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According to an article today in the local gbg newspaper, MA will implement wills/testaments in entropia, thought it might be of interest to the non swe speaking or gbg located peeps, heres the the link to the article:
http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=913&a=436198

Ps, im at work so i dont have time to translate it, but heres a copy of it :)

Satsar på virtuellt testamente
Företaget Mindark från Göteborg ska börja skriva testamenten till sina kunder för saker de äger i en virtuell datavärld.
- En naturlig utveckling, säger Carl Uggla, projektledare på företaget.
Mindark är företaget som skapat onlinespelet Project Entropia, en virtuell science fiction-värld där spelaren kan utveckla en figur. Över 700 000 människor spelar spelet i dag. Men företaget har stora förhoppningar att den siffran kommer öka dramatiskt.
- Vi håller på att utveckla en plattform för den kinesiska marknaden och våra partners i Kina pratar om miljoner spelare, det är hisnande alltsammans, säger Carl Uggla på Mindark.

I Mindarks virtuella värld kan du köpa en virtuell bild av en produkt av en annan spelare eller företag som du sedan får hemskickad till en adress i den verkliga världen, exempelvis en tröja. Men du kan också handla med bara virtuella produkter.
- Utvecklingen går mer och mer mot att ekonomin i onlinespelen blir densamma som den i verkligheten, säger Carl Uggla.

Den kraftiga utvecklingen inom genren har också väckt en del nya frågeställningar. Det amerikanska företaget Blizzard som är störst med sitt onlinespel World of Warcraft - 10 miljoner användare världen över - har under flera år varit utsatt för olika former av bedrägerier och vad företaget uppfattar som avtalsbrott. På auktions- och annonssajter som Blocket och Ebay säljer folk sina figurer eller virtuella föremål som är värdefulla i spelet. En figur kan kosta allt ifrån några hundralappar upp till flera tusentals kronor, detta trots att användarvillkoren i spelet förbjuder det.

- Konsument- och upphovsrättslagar ser olika ut i olika länder. Det som är olagligt i USA, behöver inte alls vara olagligt i Sverige. En "figurförsäljning" är visserligen ett avtalsbrott men hur det ser ut straffmässigt beror på omständigheterna kring försäljningen och helt säkert vet nog ingen i dag, säger Martina Bertilsson, jurist på advokatbyrån Setterwalls i Göteborg som specialiserat sig på juridik i den virtuella världen.

Mindark i Göteborg har enligt Uggla sluppit den problematiken genom att ha en öppen ekonomi. Det du köper i spelet äger du och kan sälja och den eventuella vinsten kan du plocka ut i verkliga pengar.
- Man betalar för saker i spelet, i stället för att betala en månadsavgift.
Ett vinnande koncept, förra året gjorde man en vinst på 18 miljoner och nu utvecklar man spelet ytterligare. Amerikanska och kinesiska företag har startat samarbete med Mindark i hopp om att få sälja saker i den virtuella världen.

Företaget har även börjat skissa på virtuella testamenten.
- Det finns ju mark i spelet som är värd en massa pengar, såväl i spelet som i verkligheten och om spelaren skulle dö, är det idag oklart vem som blir ägare, säger Carl Uggla.
Det tydligaste exemplet är amerikanen Jon Jacobs som 2005 köpte en asteroid i spelet för en miljon kronor. I dag kan man som spelare besöka stenklumpen.
- Han drar in 15-20 000 dollar i månaden på sin asteroid, dels via sin nattklubb han har där men även på jaktmarker han skapat, säger Carl Uggla.

Skatteverket har sedan våren börjat beskatta verksamheten inom onlinevärlden. Någon större kontroll är det dock inte fråga om.
- Snarare en tjänst och ett sätt för oss att vara tydliga. Jag har fått frågor från flera företagare som vill starta verksamheter i de här världarna om hur de ska göra. Folk vill göra rätt för sig, säger Dag Hardyson på Skatteverket.

Martina Bertilsson ser Skatteverkets tillämpning som logisk.
- Det är en validering av branschen. Mycket av det som sker online är ännu oklart och öppet för tolkning rent juridiskt men skattemässigt finns numer skatteverkets riktlinjer att följa för de som bor i Sverige, säger hon
 

Casay

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Move to press section if this was in newspaper???

Ummm anyone? Translation for us multiple language handicapped ppl :D
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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Full translation below:

Going for virtual wills.
The company Mindark from Gothenburg is going to start writing wills for their clients, about things they own in a virtual computer world.
- A natural development, Carl Uggla, project leader of the company says.
Mindark is the company that created the online game Project Entropia, a virtual science fiction-world where the player can develop a character. Over 700 000 people plays the game today. But the company has big hopes for a dramatic surge of that number.
- We are currently developing a platform for the chinese market and our partners in China talks about millions of players, says Carl Uggla of Mindark.

In Mindarks virtual world you can buy a virtual picture of a product, for example a shirt, from another player or company and then get it sent to your real life home adress. But you also have the choise to trade using virtual products only.
- The development is more and more going for an economy that's the same in real life as in the virtual world, says Carl Uggla.

The strong development within the genre has also woken some new questions. The american company Blizzard, who is the biggest with their online game World of Warcraft - 10 million users all over the world - has for years been subject to different types of frauds and what the company sees as a break of contract. On auction and selling sitest as Blocket och Ebay people sells their characters and virtual objects that are valueable ingame. A character can cost from a few 100SEK to 1000s of SEK, even though it is not allowed by the company.

- Consument and trademark laws are different in different countires. What is illegal in USA doesn't have to be illegal in Sweden at all. Selling Characters is breaking the contract, but how it will be punished is different from case to case and no one really knows how right now, says Martina Bertilsson, legal adviser at the lawner firm Setterwalls in Gothenburg who specialices on virtual world law study.

Mindark in Gothenburg has according to Uggla not have had to deal with those problems because they have an open economy. What you buy in the game, you own and can sell, and if you profit you can get it out in real cash.
- You pay for things in the game instead of a monthly fee.
A winning concept. Last year the company profited by 18 million SEK (3M USD) and they are now working to develop the game further. Both american and chinese companies has started cooperations with Mindark, hoping to get to sell things in the virtual world.

The company has also started scetches for virtual wills.
- There are lands in the game worth alot of money, both ingame and in the real world, and if the player were to die, it's today not clear who would be the owner, says Carl Uggla.
The clearest example is the american Jon Jacobs who 2005 bought an asteroid in the game for one million kronor (SEK). Today players can visit the boulder.
- He makes 15-20k USD a month from his astroid, partially from the nightclub but he also from hunting grounds he has created, Carl Uggla says.

The swedish tax authority has since spring started to take taxes out of the online world. However, there is no bigger control of this.
- It's rather more like a service and a way for us to be clear. I have gotten questions from several company people who wants to know how to start a company in one of those worlds. People wants to do right (*translators notice*: this sentance isnt translated in a good way so if anyone knows a better translation...?) says Dag Hardyson from the Swedish tax authoritys.

Martina Bertilsson sees the tax authoritys actions as logical.
- It's a validation of the branch. Much of the online things are still unclear and open for interpretion juridicly, and in taxes you now have the tax authoritys guidelines to follow if you live in sweden, she says.
 
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thoreau

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with all the bugs and game play issues with Entropia they're working on virtual wills. talk about misplaced priorities.
 

Strangelove

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Nice...hopefully it will include memorials. MA is spending on Cry Engine, wills and partnerships.....hopefully marketing to get more people playing will be next.
 

chevrons

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Well on the thread subject of Wills, there are a number of aspects which deserve discussion, and which players with significant assets ingame perhaps should consider.

I hope MA would not take the view that the EULA gives a player no rights whatever to their assets, and therefore if a player sadly dies, all their assets would accrue to MA.

Under English law I think it is perfectly clear who owns a deceased player's assets - it is either a named beneficiary or their residual heirs under their legal Will, or whoever inherits if they haven't made one.

Of course, that presents the difficulty that the heirs have to firstly know about the EU account, secondly know how to access it, thirdly how to sell the assets, and fourthly, how to withdraw the funds. So every player with assets needs to file such instructions where they can be found.

Another difficulty is where a players total assets are so high that they would be liable for Inheritance Tax or equivalent. In that case it would obviously be prudent not to mention EU in any actual Will, but just to file the details with one's heirs, much like a Swiss Bank Account number, but a player who donates his EU assets outside his Will to someone other than his heirs is bequeathing trouble.

I don't see how MA could get involved in this - any virtual will which passes significant assets to anyone other than legal heirs could be considered abetting Fraud or Theft, which I'm sure MA don't want to get involved in. If MA are simply going to give advice to a deceased player's heirs, that would be laudable, but again, I don't think they would want to get involved in being sent Death Certificates and so on. [Maybe they already are - does anyone know what happens now when heirs try to withdraw funds? ]

I trust that Jon Jacobs is in good health, but that he is aware of these issues.
 

Darkaner

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Yeah lets tell some lame journalist before we tell the players. That will be awesome. :rolleyes:
 

steffel

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you cannot sell avatars but if you die you can leave it to your relatives ... guess ppl soon don't just quit,they die and star is gonna be heir :confused:

still, good move imo.at least for property it's good that relatives might soon be allowed by eula to log in and at least liquidate assets if not keep playing...
 

aridash

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I hope MA would not take the view that the EULA gives a player no rights whatever to their assets, and therefore if a player sadly dies, all their assets would accrue to MA.

currently that is precisly what MA's position is, since you cannot officially transfer an avatar to another person. there have been threads about this, so acknowledgement of the issue is good move.
 

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The suggestion by chevrons to leave detailed instructions is a very good one.

Myself I plan to help my children start their own accounts before they head off to college , as a way to stay in touch better and still woop their asses from this side of the world.

Hopefully Mindarks business plan will succeed and we will be playing for many years to come.


Bones
 

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Yeah lets tell some lame journalist before we tell the players. That will be awesome. :rolleyes:

Well, if it gets media attention.... maybe that was the main purpose. (and maybe not)

The new thing to me was that they are being taxed now. Does that mean that a portion of my investment is going to the Swedish Government? What if my government wants a piece of the action?
 

Drave Robber

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The new thing to me was that they are being taxed now. Does that mean that a portion of my investment is going to the Swedish Government? What if my government wants a piece of the action?
most 'first-world' countries have 'no double taxation' treaties, so income earned abroad is taxed only at the rate differential. afaik swedish personal income taxes are still pretty high, so you might even be eligible for a refund. :)

anyway, swedish authorities are keen to mess around with everything... i suspect they are to be blamed for the fact there still are no drinks in EU bars. :D (there's an alcohol monopoly in Sweden)
 

Lobbe

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thanks for posting.

hum.. sounds interesting
 

dj.

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with all the bugs and game play issues with Entropia they're working on virtual wills. talk about misplaced priorities.


You think? :scratch2:

If I died (DJ) I would leave alot of money tied up in a on-line game, I think this amount could benefit my orphoned daughter.. 11 year's old.

Best my investments benefit her, than lost no? :scratch2:

Have already in place my details to trusted member's, If I should so disappear..even if they dont know it :cool:
 

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OnTarget

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Personally I think its a fantastic idea.

While I have no where near as much money tied up in this as some there is still enough to take some pressure off those I leave behind. If I fell off the twig tomorrow none of my loved ones would be able to access this money even if they knew where to look.

OnTarget
 

Nazbrat

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This is Very highly needed in EU. I would want my Family to have Rights to what I Own in game. I don't plan on Dieing but still it should go to them period. I am sure there are others that feel the same way.

This is a nessecary Step in EU's Development
 

Caoryn

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Full translation below:

"... Over 700 000 people plays the game today. But the company has big hopes for a dramatic surge of that number.
..."

Are you absolutely sure you translated that right? 'Coz I got a feeling that's ... well, I was about to call it a blatant lie, but let's settle for "slight misinterpretation."

"In Mindarks virtual world you can buy a virtual picture of a product, for example a shirt, from another player or company and then get it sent to your real life home adress. But you also have the choise to trade using virtual products only."

Buying Prada Jeans, TT+10! ...


"- The development is more and more going for an economy that's the same in real life as in the virtual world, says Carl Uggla."

Sweet, do the crafters finally get some reasonable success chance as the factories IRL do, can we hunt troxies to extinction while always being able to loot .. say... 3-5 units of skin, 30-35 teeth, 8-12 claws (I suppose you get the point by now), when does the oil rig run dry, not to mention all other resources, and when do the eco-fascist (ecology, not "EU-eco" :laugh:) start bugging about CO2 emission in-game? :laugh:


The green stuff are comments by me as I was too lazy to split the /quote. :)
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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The green stuff are comments by me as I was too lazy to split the /quote. :)

Right... and the constructive part of those comments were...? :scratch2:
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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with all the bugs and game play issues with Entropia they're working on virtual wills. talk about misplaced priorities.

Actually, this is a thing that might be needed...

I don't see how MA could get involved in this - any virtual will which passes significant assets to anyone other than legal heirs could be considered abetting Fraud or Theft, which I'm sure MA don't want to get involved in. If MA are simply going to give advice to a deceased player's heirs, that would be laudable

Well I guess that they are working on trying to figure out how to do it without getting in trouble or something :D

I don't think they would want to get involved in being sent Death Certificates and so on. [Maybe they already are - does anyone know what happens now when heirs try to withdraw funds? ]

With the memorials on memorial island you have to send a death certificate (from what I heard at least)... So I guess MA wouldn't mind? ;)

Yeah lets tell some lame journalist before we tell the players. That will be awesome. :rolleyes:

They have talked about this before... I think :rolleyes:
Besides, maybe they don't want to make a complete newspost or anything about it before they have figured out if it's possible?

You know, the whole "better lose something you didn't know about than something you hoped for"? ^^
 

aridash

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with all the bugs and game play issues with Entropia they're working on virtual wills. talk about misplaced priorities.
Yeah lets tell some lame journalist before we tell the players. That will be awesome. :rolleyes:

reading through properly, its a business process they are raising, not hardcore ingame mechanics. I think MA are shit scared of telling us anything because we over analyse everything. thats not an excuse though, because we do that partial due to such a poverty of news. theres been nothing new on the EU site in over a month. this is the sort of subject that should be in the developers blog (or an in the media blog).
 

Darkaner

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The new thing to me was that they are being taxed now. Does that mean that a portion of my investment is going to the Swedish Government? What if my government wants a piece of the action?

There's some info here: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...sion/109188-mindark-answers-skatteverket.html

If I recall correctly, swedish IRS (skatteverket) wanted players to pay VAT if they sold virtual items to other swedes. Completely impossible for us to do and for skatteverket to control of course...

Skatteverket had received many questions from MMO players on how to pay taxes for their incomes, and this was their response.

reading through properly, its a business process they are raising, not hardcore ingame mechanics. I think MA are shit scared of telling us anything because we over analyse everything. thats not an excuse though, because we do that partial due to such a poverty of news. theres been nothing new on the EU site in over a month. this is the sort of subject that should be in the developers blog (or an in the media blog).

They are not scared, they are just too posh to talk to their own players. Except for a few chosen ones.
 
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Commodore

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On the 14th of April 2003, I (as many others) received the "Dear former PE participant.." email. Hands up if you fancy your security details handed out before the event.

I'm all for progress, but this smacks of spin, the advertising connotations are too strong.

Project Entropia...
...where your money is safe.
...it's yours after death.
...will be around for many, many years.
...so real, you can leave your mark in the form of a memorial.

As for taxation of a possible estate, I don't believe this applies to most people - sure tax my income, would you like 5% of nothing or 10%.

For people that really do have a large amount of money ($50k upwards) they're going to have plans for this already. The legal position is a gray area, by putting a system in place, it's actually a way to ensure a revenue stream.

MA: Hello Dear participant relative #001-AAD-x-99485, relative of former participant Michael Commodore Ludgate.
Relative: Errm hello? Who is this, a friend of our departed??

MA: Yes, we are friend, of Entropia Universe. The game with a real cash economy, that's not just a game. There are many items on this account, worth lots of money.
Relative: Oh crikey, so I'm the owner of the items now.

MA: No
Relative: What?

MA: All virtual items belong to us. All rights belong to us, when your relative initiated play each session, he agreed to release all legal rights to any rights over the right to have rights.
Relative: Uhhh what? So what's the point, what am I supposed to do?

MA: Your relative support ticket has been closed, have a nice day.
 

MorbidX

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*Awaits the avatar names "Reginald Perrin" and "John Darwin*

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:



bagsie doing a reggie perrin first! :D
 

chevrons

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*Awaits the avatar names "Reginald Perrin" and "John Darwin*

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:



bagsie doing a reggie perrin first! :D

You've got the wrong thread mate - this one is about really dying - not faking it.
 

Dr.D.C.

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Full translation below:

The clearest example is the american Jon Jacobs who 2005 bought an asteroid in the game for one million kronor (SEK). Today players can visit the boulder.
- He makes 15-20k USD a month from his astroid, partially from the nightclub but he also from hunting grounds he has created, Carl Uggla says.
.

this mean ND is dying?:scratch2:
 
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