Make crits great again.

SleePy

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SleePy Angel Chick
Ever since loot 2.0 getting crits lowers the cost to kill the mob, and hence you get less loot back. Crits come in clusters, so its not unusual to get 2-3 crits more or less in a row, making that mob return very little. If you get a good "multiplier" on that mob it just leave a bad feeling, why did the crits have to come on that mob and reduce the value of that multi you ask yourself. I don't think this mechanic has any place in an RCE.

My prefered change would be to increase the ammo burn and decay by the critical multiplier amount when you crit. This way you always pay the same to kill a mob regardless of if you crit or not.

Optional change would be to make crits more consistent, if you have 10% crit, a counter starts on the first shot visulized by a buff icon, on the 10/20/30... shot you get a crit. After a certain amount of time this counter resets to avoid abuse in pvp for example. The best change would be to include this change with my first suggestion.
 
why would you have a bad feeling when you get a multiplier and very good loot composition?

Because i put a lot less into the mob, and thus the multiplier multiplied a lower input resulting in less loot compared to if i didnt crit. As it is now i don't want to crit at all because of this.
 
But you bring up a good point, this change should be implemented with adjusted calculation for loot composition, making critting still yield a better loot comp.
 
There is a simple soloution for this and for all we know it might be in game already.

The multipliers over 3x should be independent of that mechanic. (At least in some way)
 
Asking MA to devaluate the rings and pills and with that to hurt the reason to buy keys and opening the seasonal boxes.
I dont see this happening.
 
Asking MA to devaluate the rings and pills and with that to hurt the reason to buy keys and opening the seasonal boxes.
I dont see this happening.

Why would this devaluate rings and pills? From the people i talked to and heard talk about it (streamers) the current design is not popular. I think most people want the cost to be the same regardless if you crit or not. Imagine getting a 1000x on a mid hp mob you critted 3-4 times and only put a third of what it normally would cost, making your hof one third of the value you would get without critting.

I would go for crit more often with my suggestion, also buffing with crit pills for big shared mobs would increase what you put into the mob and thus your share of the loot. I think most people would at least like to have that option.

One more thing, if you would get better loot composition with crit, you would want the cost to scale with crit, so you get more of that good loot when you crit a lot.

But maybe im wrong, so please give your opinion on why the current system is good.
 
There is a simple soloution for this and for all we know it might be in game already.

The multipliers over 3x should be independent of that mechanic. (At least in some way)

Yeah that would work too, i doubt it though, these things leak if enough people find it out. And it would show quite fast if you are logging your returns and increase your crit chance.
 
But you bring up a good point, this change should be implemented with adjusted calculation for loot composition, making critting still yield a better loot comp.
Right, to have the cake and eat it too.

I'll take better composition over multis any day because no amount of multis will take me over 98% in the long run.
 
Why would this devaluate rings and pills?

But maybe im wrong, so please give your opinion on why the current system is good.

Because the most important thing in rings is the DPP.
Critical chance, by crit's with more dmg for the same cost.
Critical dmg, again more dmg for the same cost.
Lifesteal, decreasig the heal / defense cost.

No wonder why the summer 2020 ring is so expensive as right hand ring even without reload speed.

At the end of the very long run, your TT return will be the same with or without crit's.
But loot composition will be different, and loot composition is where you can win, not the TT, that is why peoples spending lot of ped on rings.
 
Right, to have the cake and eat it too.

I'll take better composition over multis any day because no amount of multis will take me over 98% in the long run.

Well it would be adjusted ofcourse, so that you recieve a better loot comp, but maybe not so much as it is today, so the end result would be the same.

But i can see your point too, and i think for ubers they look at it differently because they been playing for so long. Multis are nice, but in the long run it's the markup that is important. Players that havent been around that much probably tends to focus more on multis. And when hunting the really high hp mobs lowering the cost might be preferable, the average loot will still be big enough to net you that better loot composition.

However for smaller hp mobs there isnt enough value put into the mob in this scenario to give you that better loot, atleast to my understanding.
 
if you dont want crits buy the halloween 2020 ring
 
Because the most important thing in rings is the DPP.
Critical chance, by crit's with more dmg for the same cost.
Critical dmg, again more dmg for the same cost.
Lifesteal, decreasig the heal / defense cost.

No wonder why the summer 2020 ring is so expensive as right hand ring even without reload speed.

At the end of the very long run, your TT return will be the same with or without crit's.
But loot composition will be different, and loot composition is where you can win, not the TT, that is why peoples spending lot of ped on rings.

What you are saying is true for sure. But MA has also stated that there is such a thing as optimal kill. Meaning the faster you kill a mob (up to an unknown point) the better loot composition you get, this is a separate mechanic to dpp. Also true that in the long run it will even out, maybe im looking at it wrong, but for me getting a multi when i critted a lot isnt a good feeling knowing it could have been better without those crits. But maybe my "obsession" with nice multis will fade the longer i play.
 
What do you think about my second idea then, regardless of how it's implemented. That we get a more even spread when we crit, and not like now where it seems to come in clusters a lot.
 
What you are saying is true for sure. But MA has also stated that there is such a thing as optimal kill. Meaning the faster you kill a mob (up to an unknown point) the better loot composition you get, this is a separate mechanic to dpp. Also true that in the long run it will even out, maybe im looking at it wrong, but for me getting a multi when i critted a lot isnt a good feeling knowing it could have been better without those crits. But maybe my "obsession" with nice multis will fade the longer i play.


Optimal Loot


Another feature of Loot 2.0 that has sparked lots of discussion and speculation is Optimal Loot.


It is important to note that Optimal Loot only affects loot composition (what you loot), not the loot value (how much you loot). There is no Optimal Loot penalty for hunting creatures that are well below your avatar’s level; in fact most such kills will meet the requirements for Optimal Loot composition.


To best achieve Optimal Loot:


  • Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
  • Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
  • Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.

In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time.
 
Optimal Loot


Another feature of Loot 2.0 that has sparked lots of discussion and speculation is Optimal Loot.


It is important to note that Optimal Loot only affects loot composition (what you loot), not the loot value (how much you loot). There is no Optimal Loot penalty for hunting creatures that are well below your avatar’s level; in fact most such kills will meet the requirements for Optimal Loot composition.


To best achieve Optimal Loot:


  • Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
  • Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
  • Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.

In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time.

Thank you for clarifying. I obviously got that wrong.
 
I recently got a Rage 25 Unl which gives 20% crit dmg bonus, but it over amps dmg by 5 points (50%=22 vs Rage 25 giving 27 dmg) How much of a hindrance will this amount effect my 'Optimal loot". it isnt like i am add 69 dmg amp to just increase the tt input for kills, and I can not find a Rage 20 for the 'Perfect amp amount'.
 
Just make it so each time you crit , the cost is counted as the crit multiplier but WITHOUT actually costing you that. =P
 
Just make it so each time you crit , the cost is counted as the crit multiplier but WITHOUT actually costing you that. =P
So you want some free money ? :D
 
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@SleePy critic helps dpp and dpp improves loot composition thats all you want . In the long run it doesnt matter what mob got your critic hit , what mob got lots of evades etc averages out .
Ofc its a bad feeling seeing lots crits and that mob globals :p
 
Even they make changes on what you requested, at the end... the loot result is the ONLY thing that will make you feeling great again.
 
Base crit is only 2%. Stay clear of rings with crit buff and accu enhancers, and OP's "problem" will be non-existent. Also, if OP want less variance in cost per kill, shoot big enough mobs (20+ shots). The 10% MISS will surely add bigger variance than a few % crit!
 
correct me if I am wrong, but the idea of the existence of multipliers is a player created idea yes ?
 
correct me if I am wrong, but the idea of the existence of multipliers is a player created idea yes ?
Yes, this is part of the loot theory invented by the players, because the damned bastards from MA never tell us anything about the system
 
correct me if I am wrong, but the idea of the existence of multipliers is a player created idea yes ?
It was provable using Entropia Tracker as well as my own tests using argo young (they have 300 hp and are the quintessential "1 ped mob".) As well as others.
In loot 1.0 the minimum multi was around 3x... the original single maturity Longtooth took around 18 ped to kill. A 3x minimum multiplier meant that it was impossible for LT to global below 54 ped. Entropa tracker provided pages and pages of backing that theory up.

If you want to read about the idea, its in the loot theories section called "players notes vol. 1 "hunting loot mechanics". I wont link it since its at least somewhat outdated now.

Can say in loot 2.0 the 3x multi is still there but there are new wrinkles, that I have never finished testing. But i have about 90% tested just not enough to write about clearly yet.
 
Thank you all for discussing this and not just downwote, ive been convinced now that the majority think my idea is a bad one and that crits arent bad in its current form. I was pretty sure it was the other way around when i posted my idea. I will probably agree with you once i get enough skill to hunt the big mobs.

Also only time i went full out on crit was in mayhem, and the loot is shrapnel so obviously what you see is just smaller loot, not better loot comp because it pretty much non existant in mayhem.
 
Thank you all for discussing this and not just downwote, ive been convinced now that the majority think my idea is a bad one and that crits arent bad in its current form. I was pretty sure it was the other way around when i posted my idea. I will probably agree with you once i get enough skill to hunt the big mobs.

Also only time i went full out on crit was in mayhem, and the loot is shrapnel so obviously what you see is just smaller loot, not better loot comp because it pretty much non existant in mayhem.

Loot in mayhem is better than the usual trash mobs, strongboxes 1.3 - 3 ped MU (depending if easter / summer, bad ring / best ever ring, when you sell etc), and 10 x mayhem token's can be exchanged at vendor for pills, 4.5 - 5 ped MU if you take an accu - deva - hyper pill, and sell it.
Also in lower categories, its relatively cheap to place and win 1-4k ped worth of tokens.

But yes, crit there is for winning, not really for composition as it is almost shrap only.
 
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